England vs New Zealand 2nd ODI Rose Bowl

First topic message reminder :

Match will start at 10:45 am

glorious weather this morning at the rose bowl...

thread to discuss the match, enjoy

Duty281 wrote:

NickisBHAFC wrote:Been smashed in the cricket and no doubt we will get smashed in the football tonight

Chin up lad. England > Brazil

Only in friendlies. If it was a competitive match we'd get spanked, schooled and owned.


Oh dear. Swann bowled by Williamson for 1 (at least he got 1 more than Bresnan). England 218-8.

Don't think Trott will be getting his ton.

I've given in now, I promise.

Sky should pay me to watch this half baked nonsense. Rubbish,

We're not even going to see out our 50 overs, which is pretty criminal for a team with aspirations to be a world-class one day side.

Will the rain save us? Well no for two reasons:

1) Duckworth-Lewis
2) There is no rain

Anderson's kept the strike...cunning ploy I'm sure.

Why is it that batting powerplays seem to inevitably result in a total and utter collapse when England are batting?

We're crap?

Trott moves to 91 off 92 balls...don't see how anyone can possibly complain about that.

He may just get his century after all if Jimmy A can stick around for a couple of overs.

4 for Anderson, he's into double figures. Let's make the margin of defeat double figures.

trebellbobaggins wrote:We're crap?

Lol! As good an answer as any.

Anderson's already scored more than Swann, Bresnan and Buttler combined.

We're actually 12 runs ahead at this stage! #pleasant

trott was fine for once.. We cant expect a better rate than that from him..

Gulpits innings wasnt much more than a run a ball.

Still doesnt change the fact he gets bogged down in test matches

Anderson hits another 4 and moves to 19.

He has now outscored Woakes, Buttler, Bresnan and Swann combined.

Maybe he should bat at 8?

Duty281 wrote:We're actually 12 runs ahead at this stage! #pleasant

That would sound good if we weren't depending on Anderson to stick with Trott for another 8-9 overs.


100 up for Trott off 98 balls. Kept his head when all about were losing theirs.

Anderson is an ok batter. but the worst of this 11

Century for Trott.

Swashbuckling from Anderson, leading the counter-attack!

Target under 100!

McClenaghan takes one on the mush

The fun ends for James Anderson. Fine Yorker from McClenaghan.

dyrewolfe wrote:Anderson hits another 4 and moves to 19.

He has now outscored Woakes, Buttler, Bresnan and Swann combined.

Maybe he should bat at 8?

We cold move him up to 4 and it would probably help.

mystiroakey wrote:Anderson is an ok batter. but the worst of this 11

I suppose we should also factor in that he's batting without any pressure - the outcome a foregone conclusion.


And that's the end of Jimmy. Nice cameo innings but he's bowled by a McClenaghan yorker for 28. England 265-9.

Top effort though.

We now have the batting powerhouse that is Dernbach to finish the job and lead England to victory.

How many beers is that I've had?

And that is all she wrote.

Dernbach with a big heave, caught for 2 and England 273 all out. NZ win by 86 runs.

Closer than I expected to be honest, but still too many disappointments on all fronts. Sloppy bowling and fielding and far too much poor shot selection by our supposedly top batsmen.

Credit to NZ for taking advantage of our failings and putting the match beyond our reach.

sorry he isnt the worst batter. I forgot about Dernbach!

That's that then. The difference was once again Guptill - Trott dropping him early on might have been the event that lost us this game.

And dernbache loses it. Seems appropriate,

All round a proper disgrace really. Poor selection, fielding, bowling, batting and leadership.

In very poor shape for the tourney. Well done NZ. Brilliant and looking good. I'm just sorry you aren't getting some competitive matches against a good side for your warm ups.

Trott is last man standing on 109n.o. off 104.

A valiant but ultimately futile effort. If only one or two of our top/middle order could have stuck with him a while longer.

What this game tells us is that if England bowlers have a pretty bad day, never ever expect their batting lineup to turn it around. With 2 new balls and all, if they put together their best attack, Anderson, Finn, Broad and Swann with Bresnan/Patel/Woakes/Stokes/anyone else, there are far less chances of having such days.
Before this match, I maintained that Jonathan Trott should stay in and Ian Bell has to go. But today needed a far more flexible game from Trott. People are saying Jonathan Trott played an exceptional knock and that if you take his approach, even this kind of a total could be easily chased down. I would say I haven't seen any greater nonsense.
Both Bell and Trott can't stay in the same side, one of them has to go. Isolate today's knock, with a bit more flexibility, Trott is certainly better placed to stay in. But I just can't wait for Pietersen to come back in, the combination of Bell and Trott won't be missed at all, regardless of who would go out.

Stuart is saying on TMS that Dernbach has been splendid for Surrey in the first class games. What next? Replace Anderson with him in the test side?

Make Bopara the skipper and replace Flower with Ramprakash!.

msp83 wrote:Stuart is saying on TMS that Dernbach has been splendid for Surrey in the first class games. What next? Replace Anderson with him in the test side?

Sounds like a little bit of bias and not accepting the harsh truth that Dernbach isn't good enough from Mr Stewart

Carberry
Cook
Trott
Bell
Root
Morgan
Prior
Broad
Swann
Anderson
Finn

Thank you.

jimbohammers wrote:Carberry
Cook
Trott
Bell
Root
Morgan
Prior
Broad
Swann
Anderson
Finn

Thank you.

For the third match I assume. Are Broad and Finn fit to return?

For the trophy I agree except you'd need to make room for Pietersen at 4. Probably at the expense of Bell.

The niggles to Finn and Broad have given rise to worrying concerns regarding England's bowling depth in this format. Dernbach is a joke is obvious to everyone other than the team management and selectors. Woakes also doesn't seem to have the sufficient class for this level. Meaker and Harris for some strange reasons, seem to have slipped down the pecking order. Rankin I have my doubts about him being a serious England prospect. Reece Topley has an attractive frame for a fast bowler. Very tall, and as the cricinfo profile suggests, he's a left-armer as well. He had a pretty good U-19 world cup, and has some first class experience as well. How is he coming along? Any chance of an early England debut? Who else could be a decent option?
With the kind of top order England have got, and the demands of the new playing conditions, they would need someone really capable at 7. And with only Root, KP and Trott to fill in if needed, they need a proper 5th bowling option as well. Neither Samit Patel nor Chris Woakes seem to have done much their. Who could be options in that department? Luke Wright? I need more convincing about his bowling abilities. Tim Bresnan? I don't think his batting is up to the standards. And for that matter I have my doubts about his ODI bowling as well. His record with the ball is pretty average in this format. Australia have Watson. South Africa have Kallis, and they can use Chris Morris or Ryan McLaren. India have Ravindra Jadeja or Irfan Pathan. Sri Lanka have Thisara Perera and Jeevan Mendis. Pakistan have Mohammed Hafeez. Shakib Al Hasan, Bangladesh's best bowler bats in the top 5, and they have Mahmudullah for some half-decent backup. West Indies have a number of all-rounders who are decent ODI bowlers, Bravo, Pollard, Samuels and Gayle. NZ have Franklin, Williamson, Elliott, and when and if Vettori gets fit, he can come in as a good all-rounder. Who then for England? Ben Stokes? Ricky Clarke? Adil Rashid? Ravi Bopara?

What happened to Stokes? I thought he was meant to be the next one coming through as an all rounder

Play the Tall One!

Thing is, Dernbach has been pretty good for Surrey this season so Stewart wasn't making things up! However imo there is no way he should have been picked for these games after the horrible winter he had. We should have played 2 spinners today probably. I know we need Woakes' batting but his bowling is nowhere near good enough. I still think Clarke would be a better option for that role.

Really annoyed that Buttler has failed in this series after the form he has been in this summer so far, he needs a good score soon to try and stop pressure being built up on him.

I think there will be very few Surrey supporters who think Dernbach is good enough for England ODI sides. And that is not just a recent view.

Lots to ponder over for England, though I hope they hold their nerve rather than go into their usual pre-tournament panic.

First things first it was a good pitch and New Zealand had every right to make use of that. As has been shown in recent ODIs England are really struggling to find seamers other than Anderson, Broad, Finn and Bresnan who can do a remotely decent job. Dernbach is now surely out of the equation and its hard to see Woakes being first choice. So if Broad and Finn aren't fit Tredwell must play, and probably Rankin. As I said the other day I'm not convinced of the Rankin pick and, after some thought, have decided that were I a selector Graham Onions would be my choice if somebody had to pull out of the CT. Onions isn't a perfect one-day bowler - can be in the slot at times - but I don't think he'd let England down as Dernbach and Woakes have done. Indeed, almost all of our seamers that might be considered seem to prefer four-day cricket to one-day cricket: Woakes, Rankin, Meaker, Harris, TRJ, Wright, Onions, Tremlett...

With the bat more getting in and getting out. Again it highlighted that our plan, whilst correct, quickly goes wrong if wickets go down. The lack of a genuine all-rounder at 7 (and by that I mean somebody who might be picked as a batsman) means that even 3 wickets down before the 25th over is extremely damaging. Changes in personnel won't really help in my view and, after the success last summer, we have to stick with the plan until the end of the tournament. After the Ashes it is likely that there will need to be some review anyway - quite a few players might rest for the home ODIs v Oz, and it might be that a couple (Swann? Anderson?) decide they don't want to play ODIs at all. In addition should the Ashes go badly wrong we might find that someone like Bell, Bresnan or, dare I say it, Root, quickly falls out of favour.

England's chances in the tournament aren't hugely diminished - for me they were never the big favourites that some assumed them to be. The CT is a short tournament and there will be opportunities to win games. Broad and Finn's fitness will clearly be pivotal though.

Corporalhumblebucket wrote:I think there will be very few Surrey supporters who think Dernbach is good enough for England ODI sides. And that is not just a recent view.

Exactly. If you're going to pick any Surrey players it would be Davies and Tremlett.

Just a bad day all round for England. Get Guptil early and the whole balance of the match could have been different, but after he was dropped by Trott in the 10th over he did a great job initially as the foundation of the NZ innings and then hitting out along with McCullum. Showed the value of having wickets in hand for the last 15 overs given the current regulations.

You know it's a good batting track when Swann and Anderson are going at a run a ball, but I think we can all now say for sure that Woakes and Dernbach are not good enough to be front line bowlers in ODIs.

Batting, as Shelsey mentioned, had too many players getting in then getting out - Trott did his job adequately (100 at a run a ball is plenty quick enough if the more fluent batsmen do their job - was only a bit slower than Guptil to his 100), but the nimber of players getting between about 20 and 40 and then making a mistake and getting out has been a trend of this summer so far for England.

The only England players who are coming out of this serie with their reputations enhanced are Broad, Finn and KP

Thanks for the game guys, pity England had some of their good players missing, and we just have to get Guptill to bat like that in the tests then we can take cricket seriously.

Your boys did well Aucks!

Good win

after the ICC champions trophy i would start again with the ODI side, too much deadwood, i wouls start again with this side

1.Alistair Cook (c) - give him a chance to mould his own side
2.Alex Hales
3.Jonathon Trott- Nass was right the only thing he has ever done wrong for england was his S/R on that 3rd evening, apart from that he is Mr.reliable.
4.Joe Root
5.Eoin Morgan
6.Jos Buttler (wk)
7.Chris Jordan
8.Scott Borthwick (Swanny to concentrate on tests especially with elbow)
9.Matt Coles
10.Stuart Broad
11.Steven Finn

No KP? Bit of a glaring omission.

Matt Coles and Chris Jordan are strange choices. Jordan going well so far this season but he needs to sustain that for far longer before anyone will believe his England credentials. I don't think Borthwick is good enough, either. Very average team that.

Isn't KP injured anyway?

Personally I'd start with ditching the new playing strip. Copying Zimbabwe's colours was always going to end in tears