JWC 2013

It's that time of year again where the future stars of world rugby compete for the top prize. This year the Junior World Cup is being held in France across stadiums in Nantes, Vannes and La Roche-sur-yon. I've toured Nantes and La Roche in the past. All of the guys should have a great team there and receive the warmest of welcomes from the French. The reduction in the No. of pools leaves us with some mouth-watering clashes this year, so much so that the match-ups are verging on 2/3 pools of death.

A  
Team
England
France
South Africa  
USA  

France 6-30 England
South Africa 97-0 USA
South Africa 31 - 24 England
France 45-3 USA
England 109-0 USA
France 19-26 South Africa


B  
Team
Australia
Fiji  
Ireland  
New Zealand  

Ireland 19-15 Australia
New Zealand 59-6 Fiji
Ireland 46 - 3 Fiji
New Zealand 14 - 10 Australia
New Zealand 31 - 26 Ireland
Australia 46 - 12 Fiji

C
Team
Argentina
Samoa
Scotland
Wales

Wales 42-3 Samoa
Argentina 44-13 Scotland
Argentina 28 -16 Samoa
Wales 26 - 21 Scotland
Wales 25 - 20 Argentina
Scotland 36 - 33 Samoa

9th Place Semi Final
Samoa 19 -18 Fiji
Scotland 39 -3 USA

5th Place Semi Final
Argentina 22 - 15 Australia
Ireland 8 - 9 France

Semi Finals
South Africa 17 - 18 Wales
New Zealand 21 - 33 England

11th Place Play-Off
Fiji 46 - 12 USA

9th Place Play-Off
Samoa 33 - 24 Scotland

7th Place Play-Off
Australia 28 - 17 Ireland

5th Place Play-Off
Argentina 34 - 37 France

3rd Place Play-off
South Africa 41 - 34 New Zealand

Final
Wales 15 - 23 England

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
My team Wales may have the easiest pool, well that was my initial thought anyway. That was until I heard that in recent months Argentina beat JWC holders South Africa twice. We can't afford any complacency against Scotland either because we could easily slip up. I'm hoping Wales can go a step further than last years third place finish but without Cory Allen, Harry Robinson and Rhys Patchell we will find that very difficult. I guess Wilson will have them back to playing route 1 because we have quite a strong pack.

Future stars to look out for: I've been impressed by England captain Jack Clifford every time I've watched him play for the U20s, and Ireland No.9 Luke McGrath. Baby Blacks captain Ardie Savea seems to have been the topic of conversation on here too but I can't comment after not seeing him play.

http://www.irb.com/jwc/

I'd like to know what % of players who play in these tournaments actually make it to the senior international levels...

There is no easy pool, but if Wales had to chose one they would certainly chose the pool they are in!!!

I am extremely excited by the JWC, noone else seems to be, and I'm hitting Nantes in a few days with a mate to see his nephew play.

Ive been told by a mate involved to keep an eye on the yanks, they have been building to this as their intro on the junior stage, and will be looking to qualify from their group, they are extremely confident and for the first time have a rugby pedigreethroughout. Theyve tried to avoid converting athletes to the sport for the sake of it, and focus'd on converting those players whos attributes actually lend to rugby, plus boys with rugby experience opposed to in the past where theyve tried to teach sprinters, wrestlers and football players the rules as they go. Unfortunately for them they wanted to avoid the better backlines, so England, SA and NZ and theyve drawn 2 of them plus France. If they had drawn Wales, Scotland, Argentina they wouldve faired much better.

England also fancy their chances this year (as always) and they not only have an abbrassive pack, they have some real quality behind it to not to mention the superstar of the future depending on who you ask.

The qualificatio however will mean lesser teams will receive more benefit than the top 3 teams who do not win the tourny, especially those 2 teams who don't make the final!

My big winners ...

NZ (outright winners)
Wales (to qualify to the semi's (rank 4th world)
USA (to win 9th placed)

But there are so many unknown quantities in Argentina who are really strong at times, the hoodoo that is NZ being beatable, and the first pool of death could prove topsy turvy and qualification could come from any of the 3 teams as pool winners.

Although Aus will be dissapointed not to be in the semi's, they'll do well

GeordieFalcon wrote:I'd like to know what % of players who play in these tournaments actually make it to the senior international levels...

I'd say it's a decent per-cent-age from Wales, and NZ when you consider the amount of competition for places down there.
Also the majority of the current England team all played at U20/U21 level correct? If not a lot of them usually go on to have club careers, especially as most of them play for a club at a young age.

GeordieFalcon wrote:I'd like to know what % of players who play in these tournaments actually make it to the senior international levels...

It all depends on nations as individuals, Aus and NZ tend to use more juniors from the U20 set up recently as their player pathway is designed specifically for that, whereas England and France use far less.

England strangely provide much higher calibre athletes at this age grade than anyone else on the planet IMO, but has reverted from that recently because although very succesfull up north, the players were just not getting into pro rugby due to a lack of skill level.

It also depends on what era we're talking, the JWC is pretty new, and U20's havn't been going for too long, so has been ineffective and poorly run, especially by those nations who havn't had the kind of money the big nations have.

Bluesman, i'm one of the few also excited by this tournament. The Sky+ box is going to take a battering over the next few weeks... I think it's a bit too soon to make predictions but I expect NZ, SA, Eng and Wales all to be in the reckoning. I'd also love to see Wales play and beat any of those 3 at some stage in the competition.

GeordieFalcon wrote:I'd like to know what % of players who play in these tournaments actually make it to the senior international levels...

For NZ I'd guess 3-6 from each year's squad eventually makes the ABs. The likes of Jerome Kaino, Aaron Cruden, Beauden Barrett etc are all u19 alumni.


Richie McCaw missed out to Sam Harding for selection for the old U19 side, though managed to turn the tables at senior level.


The NZ u19 squad in 2007 was (level reached in brackets):
Forwards
Ash Dixon (SXV)
Ben Afeaki (SXV)
Chris Smith (unknown)
John Hardie (SXV)
Josh Townsend (unknown)
Liukanasi Manu (SXV)
Luke Braid (SXV)
Nicholas Barrett (SXV)
Paea Fa'anunu (NPC - currently in Crusaders' SXV wider training squad)
Peter Saili (SXV)
Quentin MacDonald (SXV)
Rodney Ah You (SXV, currently an Irish "project" player)
Samuel Whitelock (All Black)
Thomas Crowley (unknown)

Backs
Daniel Kirkpatrick (SXV)
Israel Dagg (All Black)
Jackson Willison (SXV)
Kade Poki (SXV)
Matthew Cameron (unknown)
Robert Fruean (SXV)
Ryan Crotty (SXV)
Sean Maitland (Scotland/B&I Lions)
Trent Renata (SXV, NZ Maori)
Wayne Ngaluafe (unknown)
Winston Stanley (SXV)
Zachary Guildford (All Black)

26 names, by their mid-20s four have international caps, 2 or 3 more have run close. And 20 of the 26 have made it as far as Super Rugby

The Saint wrote:Bluesman, i'm one of the few also excited by this tournament. The Sky+ box is going to take a battering over the next few weeks... I think it's a bit too soon to make predictions but I expect NZ, SA, Eng and Wales all to be in the reckoning. I'd also love to see Wales play and beat any of those 3 at some stage in the competition.

Eng and SA are in the same pool, and no way is either going to secure the highest runner up spot to make the final 4 with France the home team in their group and a revamped USA.

I think Argentina and possibly Aus stand a far greater chance at that spot, and Argentina/Wales have to be favs for 1st and 4th, except I'm not sure which way round!

The semi's could look nice for Wales if they have a great pool round and Argentina do too...

Wales
NZ
SA/England
Argentina

With Wales playing NZ in the final possibly

I just had a quick look and I can't find any Wales matches on the planner and it isn't clear whether or not alternative fixtures are available via the red button. The opening game is between France and England. Live coverage begins on Wednesday at 17:30 on SS3, with other games continuing on Saturday.

Regarding how many u20s represent senior sides, there is only 1 senior side probably catered for by around 10-12 years of age groups so they can't all make it!

First game not televised on wed, but the game Sunday is v Scotland.

So Wales will play Argentina last then, which works out nicely for us. We're usually rusty in our opening game and by the time we face our toughest group opponents we will hopefully have some momentum.

The Saint wrote:So Wales will play Argentina last then, which works out nicely for us. We're usually rusty in our opening game and by the time we face our toughest group opponents we will hopefully have some momentum.

Didn't catch the 6N then?

I watched every Wales game that was aired and we were terrible in the opening game against Ireland (exactly like we were in the previous years tournament). Our forwards kept us in the game and eventually won it. We got better as the tournament went on and lost to England in the final game, which was in part down to individual error (and I'm only looking at one individual there). Therefore I don't think we can do it without Patchell.

Does anyone know if they still have that rule about the whole squad having to play/start at least 1 match. I seem to recall that all the teams had some pretty hefty squad rotation going on last year.

Keep an eye out for Ardie Savea in the NZ side too - Julian's younger brother has been having a good season for the Hurricanes on the open side.

How do they work the seedings out for the JWC?

Pretty sure the seedings are tiered based on last year's finishing places, then a random draw from each tier. So, in seeding order:

Pool A
SA
France
England
USA

Pool B
NZ
Ireland
Australia
Fiji

Pool C
Wales
Argentina
Scotland
Samoa

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
Keep an eye out for Ardie Savea in the NZ side too - Julian's younger brother has been having a good season for the Hurricanes on the open side.

Will there be many Baby Blacks with SXV experience in the team this year? They've always been totally dominant when that's been the case...

The Saint wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
Keep an eye out for Ardie Savea in the NZ side too - Julian's younger brother has been having a good season for the Hurricanes on the open side.

Will there be many Baby Blacks with SXV experience in the team this year? They've always been totally dominant when that's been the case...

https://www.allblacks.com/news/22109/NZU20-squad-named-for-IRB-World-Champs-in-France

The squad includes Highlanders centre Jason Emery and Hurricanes loose forward Ardie Savea, Chiefs wider training group fullback Joe Webber and Blues wider training group players, loose forward Joe Edwards and outside back Lolagi Visinia.

The squad includes a total 12 players who played ITM Cup last year. Boyd said the competition for spots in this year’s squad had been fierce with many of the 48 contenders demonstrating they had worked hard on their fitness and technique over the summer.

I think Savea's the only one with much SXV game time. But the other SXV squad members will have been training with their respective pro squads since January.

Biltong wrote:How do they work the seedings out for the JWC?

Do you mean seedings to determine who go's in who's group, or you mean qualification from the groups?

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Biltong wrote:How do they work the seedings out for the JWC?

Do you mean seedings to determine who go's in who's group, or you mean qualification from the groups?

the seedings, butI figured it out thanks.

They take the rankings of the previous tournament.

1, 6, 7

2, 5, 8

3, 4, 9

Etc.

By the way I see our backline is very small this year, on average about 8 kilo's lighter than most teams per man, I think we're in trouble this year.

Biltong wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Biltong wrote:How do they work the seedings out for the JWC?

Do you mean seedings to determine who go's in who's group, or you mean qualification from the groups?

the seedings, butI figured it out thanks.

They take the rankings of the previous tournament.

1, 6, 7

2, 5, 8

3, 4, 9

Etc.


By the way I see our backline is very small this year, on average about 8 kilo's lighter than most teams per man, I think we're in trouble this year.

It gets worse mate, it's very unlikely 2 tems from your pool will make the final 4, the winner may get the AB's too!

Yeah agree, the pools didn't work out according to real equality, but I suppose it is what it is, eh?

Biltong wrote:Yeah agree, the pools didn't work out according to real equality, but I suppose it is what it is, eh?

Well Argy and Wales got a bit lucky because of their last tournament freak results, and with the groups I could see Wales topping the group with Argy qualifying as best runner up. I could also see Wales with a big points difference and playing Argentina in the semi's.

But thats given that Wales can not only beat the other 3 (of which they are capable) but have the confidence to put points on the teams too.

My semi's will probably look like...

NZ v Argentina

Wales v England

I wouldn't write the Saffas or French off mind, SA are reigning champs, and retained a decent amount of players havn't they? and France are the home team.

Also watch USA, they could be real dark horses and nick a result alththough they are in their group of death!

GeordieFalcon wrote:I'd like to know what % of players who play in these tournaments actually make it to the senior international levels...

It will vary wildly between years of course, but England's 2011 team is starting to look pretty impressive:

13) Elliot Daly (London Wasps)
12) Owen Farrell (Saracens)
11) Christian Wade (London Wasps)
10) George Ford (Leicester Tigers)

1) Mako Vunipola (Saracens)
3) Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks)
4) Joe Launchbury (London Wasps)
6) Sam Jones (London Wasps)
7) Matt Kvesic (Worcester Warriors)

16) Rob Buchanan (Harlequins)
22) Marland Yarde (London Irish)

All of them have had some form of international exposure this year, though not all have caps yet.

Can't see us doing very well with our small backline, they might be oacy and be able to score tries, but to defend against big guys like taphat, you would expect the bigger guys to gain enough gainline advantages to count in the end.

I see Jan Serfontein who was in the squad is nit there, I suppose he will be called up for the Boks.

Biltong wrote:Can't see us doing very well with our small backline, they might be oacy and be able to score tries, but to defend against big guys like taphat, you would expect the bigger guys to gain enough gainline advantages to count in the end.

I see Jan Serfontein who was in the squad is nit there, I suppose he will be called up for the Boks.

Wales have a weakened backline too, with Patchell, Allen and Robinson all out for int call ups and 7's duty, their replacements are far smaller versions.

A quick note on Scotland. Although we will find it tough against Wales, who spanked us in the 6N, and to a lesser degree against Argentina, who are probably slightly stronger than us, we have the best set of juniors we have had in ages.

Unlike in years past, a number of our players have pro experience, with the pick of the bunch being:

Johnny Gray: Captain and notched a couple of Glasgow Warriors appearances this year - he is a big brute of a 2nd row(and Richie's brother).
Adam Ashe: A promising 8, with good hands - he should feature for Glasgow more next season.
Jaimie Farndale: Plays on the wing with Edinburgh although he has only made one 1st team appearance. Finished top scorer in this competition last year but has been injured for most of this season, playing for Edinburgh Accies. He is natural born finisher.
Adam Sinclair: Part 2 of a very strong 2nd row pairing with Gray. A big man with good athletic ability, he plays for the junior Perpignan team.
Tommy Allan: Brought up in SA, but with Scottish heritage (his uncle, John Allan, played for Scotland). He came up through the Western Province academy and has now signed for Perpignan as well.
Mark Bennett: Apart from attracting a lot of attention on these boards, for being the future saviour of Scottish Rugby, he is actually a very good player. This will be his 3rd JWC and could have been travelling to SA with the full squad. Scored almost a try a game in his appearances for Glasgow Warriors this season - he will be the go to man.

Anyway, these players are probably the pick of the bunch. Unfortunately a lot of the squad has no pro experience at all, especially in the front row - so these guys wont have as much of an opportunity to shine. If we can finish second in our group, that would be a great result.

So, who do you think are going to be the future stars?

In terms of making a 3 man shortlist for junior player of the year, these would be the odds for England lads which might attract my 50p:

Jack Nowell (W/FB) 2/1
Antony Watson (W/FB) 3/1
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Prop/Hooker) 4/1
Henry Slade (FH) 8/1
Jack Clifford (Flanker) 10/1

There's definitely a bit of bias there, but nominations generally go to eye-catching positions - Luke Cowan-Dickie is an exception, but his skillset is more akin to a centre.

Yeah Cowan-Dickie looked like a very good player. He was the one with the really bad mullet wasn't he?
I was also just thinking (as it was a point raised earlier on), Brodie Retallick, Sam Cane, Julian Savea and Aaron Cruden are U20 players who are now All Blacks. Didn't they play in the same team for the one year? Because I know you guys like to mix up the 19 and 20 year olds so you always have a decent team for the following season.

Wales team for Samoa contains three debutants. I the hope the reserve fly-half gets a run, I don't remember that happening in the U20 Six Nations.

Wales Under 20 team v Samoa, Wednesday 5 June, Nantes (6pm local time):

Hallam Amos (Dragons); Owen Jenkins (Blues / Pontypridd), Steffan Hughes (Scarlets / Llanelli), Jack Dixon (Dragons), Ashley Evans (Ospreys/ Bridgend); Sam Davies (Ospreys / Swansea), Joshua Davies (Dragons / Bedwas); Gareth Thomas (Scarlets / Carmarthen), Ethan Lewis (Blues / Cardiff), Nicky Thomas (Ospreys / Swansea), Carwyn Jones (Scarlets/ Carmarthen), Rhodri Hughes (Ospreys/ Swansea), Ellis Jenkins (capt, Blues / Cardiff), Daniel Thomas (Scarlets / Llanelli), Ieuan Jones (Dragons)

Replacements: Elliot Dee (Dragons / Bedwas), Thomas Davies (Blues /Cardiff), Dan Suter (Ospreys/ Bridgend), Jack Jones (Ospreys / Rovigo), Sion Bennett (Scarlets/ Carmarthen), Rhodri Williams (Scarlets/ Llandovery), Harri Evans (North Wales / RGC 1404), Dion Jones (Scarlets/ Llanelli)

WEDNESDAY 5TH JUNE
(from 17:00) - 17:00 - WALES U20 v SAMOA U20 - IRB Junior World Championship Pool C - Online at S4C Clic - http://www.s4c.co.uk/clic/c_index.shtml

http://www.irb.com/jwc/teams/team=3781/index.html

http://www.irb.com/jwc/news/newsid=2067071.html#jwc+2013+pool+c+preview
http://www.irb.com/jwc/matches/match=13937/index.html

http://www.irb.com/jwc/teams/team=3781/index.html


(17:30 – 19:30) – 17:45 – FRANCE U20 v ENGLAND U20 – IRB Junior World Championship Pool A - Sky Sports3
Referee: Stuart Berry (South Africa)
Assistant Referees: Dudley Phillips (Ireland), Christophe Dutreuilh (France)
http://www.irb.com/jwc/news/newsid=2067018.html#pelous+hopeful+french+success+jwc+2013
http://www.irb.com/jwc/teams/team=3775/index.html

http://www.irb.com/jwc/matches/match=13938/index.html
http://www.irb.com/jwc/news/newsid=2067065.html#jwc+2013+pool+a+preview

http://www.irb.com/jwc/teams/team=3775/index.html

(17:35 – 19:32) – 17:45 – IRELAND U20 v AUSTRALIA U20 – IRB Junior World Championship Pool B – TG4 plus Sky Sports3 Red Button
Referee: Luke Pearce (England)
Assistant Referees: Ian Davies (Wales), Mathieu Noirot (France)
http://www.irb.com/jwc/teams/team=3775/index.html

http://www.irb.com/jwc/matches/match=13939/index.html
http://www.irb.com/jwc/news/newsid=2067070.html#jwc+2013+pool+b+preview

http://www.irb.com/jwc/teams/team=3775/index.html

Good work Pete.

thebluesmancometh wrote: I'm hitting Nantes in a few days with a mate to see his nephew play.

What's your route?
We've been thinking of going but am worried by the logistics!

Results are in (and added into the OP). We were treated to some more entertaining rugby so early in the week instead of just having to wait until the weekend.
The NZ-Fiji match was marred by two red cards and three yellow cards! Looks like they were punished by NZ when they were down. Can any Kiwi's shed light on what happened? Poor Fiji, they've had a decent team in the past two seasons.

The Saint wrote:Results are in (and added into the OP). We were treated to some more entertaining rugby so early in the week instead of just having to wait until the weekend.
The NZ-Fiji match was marred by two red cards and three yellow cards! Looks like they were punished by NZ when they were down. Can any Kiwi's shed light on what happened? Poor Fiji, they've had a decent team in the past two seasons.

1st red was a bit harsh - tip tackle ... , while the 1st yellow was too. Other calls were justified, all for dangerous tackles.

At one stage Fiji were down to 11, that makes for a pretty light defensive line.


Andrew McMenemy is Scottish, has refereed in the Pro12 & the IRB 7s, and is full time employed by the IRB


Apparently the Baby Boks missed 9 conversions! No budding Morne Steyns there

Bazza wrote:
We've been thinking of going but am worried by the logistics!

Any Brits (Scots) able to answer my question please?

Ferry and coach took about 6 hours I think Bazza, not so sure of the route though. If you're thinking of going then I highly recommend that you go.

Thanks 'Saint'.
Next year's tournament is to be played in New Zealand - we plan to go there, so saving starts now I guess!
But with France being 'just up the road' it would be a shame to miss the games. It's Pool C matches that we would be interested in. So we would need to get to Nantes.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
Apparently the Baby Boks missed 9 conversions! No budding Morne Steyns there

That's why they now learn to play with ball in hand.

The Baby Boks looked very strong and very skilful from what I seen in the highlights. It also looks as if you have another Schalk Burger coming through. Same style of play, same hair and everything!

It is difficult to say how good they really were, the USA were just woeful. I am concerned about our defensive strengths though.

We have the smallest backline there of all the top nations and withstanding backlines that outweighs your players man on man by more than 8 kilos is worrying.

Their attack looked very good, but there were a lot of mistake made by the BOks as well.

Fair play, the highlights were only 5 minutes. What those backs lack in size they certainly make up for in pace, agility and finishing. I can't think of any teams with big centre's in this competition so that might not be a big issue.
What do you think of your No.6?

Too early to tell mate, I'll wait and see how he does against England on Sunday.

SUNDAY 9TH JUNE
(15:30 – 17:30) – 15:45 – South Africa U20 v England U20 – IRB Junior World Championship Pool A - Sky Sports4

http://www.irb.com/jwc/matches/match=13941/index.html

(from 16:00) – 16:00 – Wales U20 v Scotland U20 – IRB Junior World Championship Pool C - Sky Sports4 Red Button

http://www.irb.com/jwc/matches/match=13946/index.html

(17:35 – 19:37) – 17:45 – IRELAND U20 v FIJI U20 – IRB JUNIOR WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP POOL B - TG4 plus Sky Sports4 (17:30 -19:30)

http://www.irb.com/jwc/matches/match=13942/index.html

(19:30 – 21:30) – 19:45 – New Zealand U20 v Australia U20 - IRB Junior World Championship Pool B - Sky Sports4

http://www.irb.com/jwc/matches/match=13945/index.html

Good win for Ireland.

Ya man Scholes scored 2 tries.

Understand one was a length of the field try.

Hard to say where this NZ side looks in comparison with England and SA which was a really good match. havnt seen the other matches yet but this time it looks close again with one of several sides looking good, SA probably the stronger so far...

THURSDAY 13TH JUNE
http://www.irb.com/jwc/teams/index.html

(15:25 – 17:30) – 15:45 – WALES U20 v ARGENTINA U20 - IRB JUNIOR WORD CHAMPIONSHIP – S4C plus Sky Sports3 (15:30 – 17:30)

http://www.irb.com/jwc/matches/match=13949/index.html

(17:30 – 19:30) – 17:45 – England U20 v USA U20 – IRB Junior Word Championship -Sky Sports3

http://www.irb.com/jwc/matches/match=13947/index.html

(17:35 – 19:38) – 17:45 – NEW ZEALAND U20 v IRELAND U20 – IRB JUNIOR WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP – TG4 plus Sky Sports3 Red Button
http://www.irb.com/jwc/matches/match=13951/index.html

The Saint wrote:The Baby Boks looked very strong and very skilful from what I seen in the highlights. It also looks as if you have another Schalk Burger coming through. Same style of play, same hair and everything!

Who? Du Plessis or Smit?

Now that pool are finished...Next games are:

• Semi finals will be: SA v WAL and NZ v ENG
  
• 5th-9th playoffs: IRE v FRA and ARG v AUS
  
• 9th-12th playoffs: SCO v USA and SAM v FIJ