--- Rating Wladimir Klitchsko ---

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My ratings

Technical Ability - 9.5, Like him or not, for a heavyweight He is technically one of the most superior boxers ever, Excellent jab and right hands also has a good left hook. standing at over 6 and a half feet the guy can box great, obviously the smaller the heavyweight is the more skill he has to have but Wlad's techinique with his size means that you wont see him beat anytime soon

Defence - 8, alot of WK success is down to his boxing skills but you can't overlook his size when it comes to defense. Like his brother he uses his size to lean back and get out out punching range, he is light on his feet and that accompanied with his size means he can effortlessly move out of range, when an opponent closes him down although he is very negative and boring, he is very effective with clinching.

Offence -7, in this catagory Wlad can be much better than he is, but for one reason or another (could be low confidence in chin or just poor mentality) he is not that good here and was much better in his younger days. Example of his offence not being great would be in the haye fight - sure the Klit fans would cry that haye was too defencive but if Wlad was a great offencive fighter he would get him out of there, if haye did that vs Louis he would be out inside 5.

Footwork - 9, this in my opinion is a area where his ability is overlooked. He has great physical advantages over his opponents yes, but without excellent footwork and a poor chin people would find him and KO him, he is able to close of a ring when needed and is excellent backing away and getting out of range, Always in balance and always composed because of this .

Accuracy - 8, He has good accuracy but not great. He has very accurate jab and right hand but level of competition has to be looked at, he hasn't really faced an opponent who is exactly hard to hit, when he did in haye WK did not have the same succes he usually has.

Power - 9, He has great power - he has very powerful jab, right hand and left hook, tools that could have made him a very exciting fighter, but lack of aggressive mentality has meant it's rare you see Klitcshko take out an opponent before round 10, overmatched opponents are able to go 10 but that doesn't reflect WK's power, as he only throws few right hands per round and a even rare left hook before 10.

Speed - 7, he has excellent speed for a heavyweight of his size, but this ratings are not done to size its done to division, so although for his size its excellent as a heavyweight overall it doesn't compare that well, but its still very good. He can throw quick jabs and right hands, also good quick left hooks - all with power. But he isn't the fastest and not close.

Versatility - 6, He is able to both Box and if he wanted he would be able to brawl like his early days, but that's not how he fights now, meaning he only boxes and can only box - doesn' have confidence in his chin to trade punches.

Stamina - 7, He is able to go full 12 no problem, but he has no one to push him, he doesn't have a really high work rate so you can't know what's his limit, he in his prime takes very few punches and hasn't been in a fight where he needed to find his second wind - doesn't show how good is stamina is, but rather the lack of solid competition there is, meaning no one to push him out of his comfort zone and over his limit. He did gas against purity

Heart - 7.5, He showed tremendous heart to come back from 3 KO losses and was floored 3 times against peter in the first fight, a fight many said it was not if but a when WK is going to get KO'd. But at his peak he is head and shoulders above his competetion, only his brother stand with him. Yet the man refuses to open up and be aggressive and give the boxing fans excitement, being the Heavyweight Champion of the world, he has the power to make boxing mainstream again, but to do that you need explosive KO's - something WK refuses - not can't- to deliver. E.g. against haye he didn't really let his hands go, sure haye was defensive and fought poorly, but if you're a great with KO power, you should be able to take a guy like Haye out, that fight showed two guys who didn't want to risk going for it, for the fear of getting KO'd.

Chin - 4.5, his chin is bad, just bad, terrible. I don't criticize people's all that often because the often get hit with excellent punches leading people to believe and say that that KO victim has a glass chin, ignoring the Great punch and not giving credit to the fighter delivering the punch. But I can't defend WK, the man has no chin, he gets hit and he panics, he has KO'd 3 times and not by fighter with solid punching power (apart from Saunders). David Haye, a cruiserweight puncher, stunned him with a normal overhand right in the 12th, Wach seemed to stun him also, his excellent defence and poor competition often hides his chin.

Physical Attributes - 10, Do I really need to explain. Many times after the fight I read comments saying Klitchsko was too big, I don't agree with this - he beats his opponents because he is too Skilled, Of course his size has a lot to do with it but it's not the main aspect. WK is excellent and controlling range and fighting to his strengths, his footwork and defensive technique of pulling back means the opponents more often than not fall short of there target. This isn't a rating of size, it's a rating of how the individual uses it, for example Paul Williams would not get that high of a rating although physically he was a freak of nature, he didn't use it - unlike Wladimir

Overall - 8

Some attributes are missing though such as Cut/Swelling resistance and ring IQ etc...

For me he is a top 15 Heavyweight and a Solid HOF fighter.

Stop comparing a 255lb 6'5'' Lewis to a 5'11' 210lb Fraizer, Lewis tired Vitali out as Vitali tired him out, it was two huge guys going at it, Vit wouldnt have to face the same physical challange

Frazier was short for a heavy, but he wasn't a midget, he was just under 6 feet and weighed about 205 in his prime. I'm not saying he'd beat either klit, I can see arguments both ways, but the idea that a short guy can't beat a tall guy is a little simplistic. That guy Tyson beat the odd tall guy, and he was shorter than Frazier and not much heavier.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

kingraf wrote:Have you actually watched the Klitsckho vs Lewis fight? Vitali out on his feet? Really? In what round? I watched it this afternoon again just to se if I could spot these "jabs for fun" Lewis apparently landed. I thought he got 40% connection, looked it up, turned out he had 43%, so apogies to Truss, he was a little more accurate than I thought. Thag said Klitschko landed more punches than him overrall, and was not out on his feet. A doctor doesnt stop you for cuts because "Youre out on your feet".

Watch it again. Vitali was knackered going back to his corner after 6. Lewis was taking over the fight in rounds 5 & 6 despite looking shattered himself.

You are strting to sound like winchester or gordy with the rubbish you talk. You seem to dismiss nearly a foot height advantage and nearly 60lbs weight advantage like it is nothing.

Half a foot. And if Joe was privy to the same potions the brothers are that weight difference wouldn't be as great either. Petty.

Tyson was 5ft 10 and 215 when he was knocking down trees....

Maybe he couldn't punch either...........

KO-KING wrote:Stop comparing a 255lb 6'5'' Lewis to a 5'11' 210lb Fraizer, Lewis tired Vitali out as Vitali tired him out, it was two huge guys going at it, Vit wouldnt have to face the same physical challange

Stop being so hung up on size - it REALLY doesn't matter!!

Seems like we were on a Vulcan mind merge there truss. I find that deeply disturbing. I might start bigging up marlon starling and referring to myself as the porkster.

hazharrison wrote:

KO-KING wrote:Stop comparing a 255lb 6'5'' Lewis to a 5'11' 210lb Fraizer, Lewis tired Vitali out as Vitali tired him out, it was two huge guys going at it, Vit wouldnt have to face the same physical challange

Stop being so hung up on size - it REALLY doesn't matter!!

It does when it comes to evenly matched fighters, it sure did matter in Kingston Jamaica. It does matter when size causes something to happen, lewis's 250+ pounds was a major contributing fact to tiring out Vitali

Joe Frazier only ever beat by 2 men in his career Ali, and Foreman, 32 wins 27ko's,only one of 2 men to stop the granite chinned George Chuvalo, but low and behold he doesn't beat Vladimir Klitschko unbelievable.
Fraziers left hook lands( and it would) the its goodnight a cut above the Klitchko's.

The Klitchkos 2 good heavyweights in arguably the worst heavyweight era in boxing history.

Nico the gman wrote:Joe Frazier only ever beat by 2 men in his career Ali, and Foreman, 32 wins 27ko's,only one of 2 men to stop the granite chinned George Chuvalo, but low and behold he doesn't beat Vladimir Klitschko unbelievable.
Fraziers left hook lands( and it would) the its goodnight a cut above the Klitchko's.

The Klitchkos 2 good heavyweights in arguably the worst heavyweight era in boxing history.

Right on.

hazharrison wrote:

KO-KING wrote:Stop comparing a 255lb 6'5'' Lewis to a 5'11' 210lb Fraizer, Lewis tired Vitali out as Vitali tired him out, it was two huge guys going at it, Vit wouldnt have to face the same physical challange

Stop being so hung up on size - it REALLY doesn't matter!!

of course it matters otherwise we wouldnt have weight divisions.

KO-KING wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

KO-KING wrote:Stop comparing a 255lb 6'5'' Lewis to a 5'11' 210lb Fraizer, Lewis tired Vitali out as Vitali tired him out, it was two huge guys going at it, Vit wouldnt have to face the same physical challange

Stop being so hung up on size - it REALLY doesn't matter!!

It does when it comes to evenly matched fighters, it sure did matter in Kingston Jamaica. It does matter when size causes something to happen, lewis's 250+ pounds was a major contributing fact to tiring out Vitali

Foreman wasn't that much bigger than Frazier - taller but less broad. Foreman was a killer who caught Frazier napping (he'd been on a sabbatical with his band and had taken his eye off the ball somewhat). Klitschko is no Foreman. Not even close.

KO-KING wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

KO-KING wrote:Stop comparing a 255lb 6'5'' Lewis to a 5'11' 210lb Fraizer, Lewis tired Vitali out as Vitali tired him out, it was two huge guys going at it, Vit wouldnt have to face the same physical challange

Stop being so hung up on size - it REALLY doesn't matter!!

It does when it comes to evenly matched fighters, it sure did matter in Kingston Jamaica. It does matter when size causes something to happen, lewis's 250+ pounds was a major contributing fact to tiring out Vitali

And it's beyond the realms of possibility that the man who quoted 'kill the body and the head will die' couldn't achieve the same result by different means?

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

KO-KING wrote:Stop comparing a 255lb 6'5'' Lewis to a 5'11' 210lb Fraizer, Lewis tired Vitali out as Vitali tired him out, it was two huge guys going at it, Vit wouldnt have to face the same physical challange

Stop being so hung up on size - it REALLY doesn't matter!!

of course it matters otherwise we wouldnt have weight divisions.

At heavyweight (really have to spell things out on here don't you?)

Nico the gman wrote:Joe Frazier only ever beat by 2 men in his career Ali, and Foreman, 32 wins 27ko's,only one of 2 men to stop the granite chinned George Chuvalo, but low and behold he doesn't beat Vladimir Klitschko unbelievable.
Fraziers left hook lands( and it would) the its goodnight a cut above the Klitchko's.

The Klitchkos 2 good heavyweights in arguably the worst heavyweight era in boxing history.

Wladimir doesnt get past 5, but we are talking about vitali - albeit in a Wladimir thread. But its important to point out, he stopped Chuvalo on punishment, didnt drop him, Vitali was more skillful than Chuvalo

hazharrison wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

KO-KING wrote:Stop comparing a 255lb 6'5'' Lewis to a 5'11' 210lb Fraizer, Lewis tired Vitali out as Vitali tired him out, it was two huge guys going at it, Vit wouldnt have to face the same physical challange

Stop being so hung up on size - it REALLY doesn't matter!!

of course it matters otherwise we wouldnt have weight divisions.

At heavyweight (really have to spell things out on here don't you?)

why?

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

KO-KING wrote:Stop comparing a 255lb 6'5'' Lewis to a 5'11' 210lb Fraizer, Lewis tired Vitali out as Vitali tired him out, it was two huge guys going at it, Vit wouldnt have to face the same physical challange

Stop being so hung up on size - it REALLY doesn't matter!!

of course it matters otherwise we wouldnt have weight divisions.

At heavyweight (really have to spell things out on here don't you?)

why?

HA!! GOODNIGHT!!!!

hazharrison wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

KO-KING wrote:Stop comparing a 255lb 6'5'' Lewis to a 5'11' 210lb Fraizer, Lewis tired Vitali out as Vitali tired him out, it was two huge guys going at it, Vit wouldnt have to face the same physical challange

Stop being so hung up on size - it REALLY doesn't matter!!

of course it matters otherwise we wouldnt have weight divisions.

At heavyweight (really have to spell things out on here don't you?)

why?

HA!! GOODNIGHT!!!!

Please tell me why weight and height advantage makes no difference in the HW division, or don't you know?

KO-KING wrote:

Nico the gman wrote:Joe Frazier only ever beat by 2 men in his career Ali, and Foreman, 32 wins 27ko's,only one of 2 men to stop the granite chinned George Chuvalo, but low and behold he doesn't beat Vladimir Klitschko unbelievable.
Fraziers left hook lands( and it would) the its goodnight a cut above the Klitchko's.

The Klitchkos 2 good heavyweights in arguably the worst heavyweight era in boxing history.

Wladimir doesnt get past 5, but we are talking about vitali - albeit in a Wladimir thread. But its important to point out, he stopped Chuvalo on punishment, didnt drop him, Vitali was more skillful than Chuvalo

Its not important at all Frazier stopped him simple as that, only one of 2 men to do it in a 70 odd fight career no one else managed it.

Holyfield lost to Valuev (ya it was a robbery, but the fact that it got that far shows what a difference size can make. As an aside, I have that and Calzaghe-Hopkins filed away as fights I make sure never to watch again, unless in the company of People I dont particularly like).

Based on height and weight Louis should have stayed clear of Carnera and Dempsey was a fool to fight Willard.

kingraf wrote:Holyfield lost to Valuev (ya it was a robbery, but the fact that it got that far shows what a difference size can make. As an aside, I have that and Calzaghe-Hopkins filed away as fights I make sure never to watch again, unless in the company of People I dont particularly like).

Height and weight makes a massive difference and even more so at HW where the weight limit is unlimited so you have examples where valuev had an 11 inch height advantage and over 100 lbs weight advantage over Holyfield.

If Vitali faced Frazier then Vitali would hve a 9 inch height advantage (vitali is 6ft 8, frazier is 5ft 11)

vitali would have close to a 50 lbs weight advantage

vitali would also have a 7 inch reach advantage.

Both Frazier and vitali are world class boxers but the above physical attributes results in a vitali win.

Based on size and weight - A 6'6 2060lbs guy Carnera is only four inches taller than Louis, while also giving up much by way of conditioning. Also, both Dempsey and Louis were taller than Frazier, while both Carnera and Willard were smaller than Vitali, so its not even a like for like comparison, neither was 6'3 Cunningham and that fool Fury (who in case you missed it won that fight by KO)

hazharrison wrote:

monty junior wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

monty junior wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:I can see why Vitali might be a few people's favourite over Frazier, but I wouldn't be totally cocksure about it. It's possible that Frazier could "run in to the jab" all night (against either brother), but it's also possible that his head movement and speed coming inside could take their jabs away and allow him to work on the inside. He made Ali miss a hell of a lot in their first fight, for instance. If that's the case against a Klitschko, and he can get in close to their bodies, it would be an interesting fight.

The thing about both of the Klitschkos is that they've almost never really had to take more than one, perhaps two, big shots in succession for the past ten years, in which they've both (particularly Wladimir) hit their peaks. Frazier's speed in close could change all of that and, while Vitali has a very good chin, it's not impossible that Frazier could put a dent in it. In fairness, much of that is down to how good they are, but some of it is also down to the fact that they haven't faced an exceptional pressure fighter between them, too.

Frazier was a slow starter (the first Bonavena fight being a prime example) and was vulnerable early on before his engine warmed up and before he'd found an attacking rhythm, but then again neither Klitschko really sets a red-hot pace early on, so he probably won't have to worry too much about that here.

I'd probably see Frazier-Klitschko (either one) as a pick 'em, more or less. The second Ali fight, in which Frazier was tied up inside and smothered, gives Wladimir a fair bit of hope (he doesn't throw much on the inside, but is very good at taking the sting out of an opponent's attack there) but I do believe there's evidence each way for this one.

Joe would be so physically inferior physically to both brother's he would be knackered from the clinches as he would always be going backwards with 250 pounds weighing on him. Another problem for Frazier would be actually connecting properly with his left hook, especially to the jaw, he had to launch himself to reach Ali who was next 6,3 compared to the Klitschko's being 6,7. I just think it's a terrible matchup for Joe, he could shake up Wlad sure but I think he would be taken out by both.

Tyson Fury dwarfed Steve Cunningham recently but still ended up on his back (and Cunningham is no puncher at heavyweight). Frazier would tag Wladimir and get him out of there. He'd systematically beat Vitali up.

How can you possibly compare a mindless idiotic plodder like Fury to Wladimir Klitschko? It's such a daft comparison it beggars belief.

I was comparing the size differential in Fury-Cunningham to Klitschko-Frazier. I didn't compare them as fighters.

Well you basically did as you used Fury who is a big and easy to hit plodder to Klitschko who is nigh on impossible to hit flush these days.

Short stature doesn't automatically disbar from being champion (insert name), however height can be advantageous...

Valuev was 'champion' only for his mountainous physique thus illustrating size compensates for short falls. However, It's no small matter that size combined with other attributes is a force multiplier.

I think perfectly formed and plausible narratives can be put forward for either fighter winning this one.

Now look here Mawler. This is no time for fence-sitting. This is a forum defining thread, and saying these like "Arguments can be put forth on both sides should be banned. Mods?

kingraf wrote:Based on size and weight - A 6'6 2060lbs guy Carnera is only four inches taller than Louis, while also giving up much by way of conditioning. Also, both Dempsey and Louis were taller than Frazier, while both Carnera and Willard were smaller than Vitali, so its not even a like for like comparison, neither was 6'3 Cunningham and that fool Fury (who in case you missed it won that fight by KO)

True on the heights. The weight differentials are negligible. Probably Louis gave more weight up to carnera than Frazier would to vk.

Frazer v Wlad.... surprised nobody has mentioned 1 crucial point, this fight depends on the choice of referee. It's interesting and I think a key difference, Wlad can't fight inside to save his life but his clinch is massively effective, All Wlad does on the inside is clinch and lean. Watch the Williamson fight the ref stops him from holding and he tries to fight back on the inside with hilarious results. In Ali-Frazier II the ref allowed Ali to grab the back of Joe's neck all night and he was able to neutralise Frazier. In FOTC and Manilla the ref didn't, we saw a very different fight. Holding/clinching isn't illegal as far as I know but doing it excessively and constantly is.

its not just size, its the skill that comes with it, willard was a bum, carnera didnt know how to fight, he was stuck in a different era with his style

PPVxHOTTY wrote:Frazer v Wlad.... surprised nobody has mentioned 1 crucial point, this fight depends on the choice of referee. It's interesting and I think a key difference, Wlad can't fight inside to save his life but his clinch is massively effective, All Wlad does on the inside is clinch and lean. Watch the Williamson fight the ref stops him from holding and he tries to fight back on the inside with hilarious results. In Ali-Frazier II the ref allowed Ali to grab the back of Joe's neck all night and he was able to neutralise Frazier. In FOTC and Manilla the ref didn't, we saw a very different fight. Holding/clinching isn't illegal as far as I know but doing it excessively and constantly is.

wlad would get KO'd as long as the ref can count to 10

kingraf wrote:Now look here Mawler. This is no time for fence-sitting. This is a forum defining thread, and saying these like "Arguments can be put forth on both sides should be banned. Mods?

those opinions are the only reasonable one, when it comes to vit vs joe, nothing is a given in that fight

Not read through all (or any, actually) of the thread but I voted yes. Can't think of 15 more dominant HW champions than Wlad.

Simplistic? Disregarding the quality of the era? Yes and yes. Top 15? Yes too.

All any fighter can be is the best of their generation, and Wlad has been that by some considerable distance. I don't do lists, but for people to have him anywhere been ten and twenty would not seem unreasonable , can't understand why you all get so het up about it.

KO-KING wrote:its not just size, its the skill that comes with it, willard was a bum, carnera didnt know how to fight, he was stuck in a different era with his style

Actually, the ambling alp's fighting style is a little rememiscent of vk... Low left hand, frankenstein foot movement. A far less efficient and chinnier version, granted!

Don't think anyone is disputing that the klits are a different proposition to willard and carnera. The argument was put forward that Frazier had no chance due to the height and weight differential - hence the counter arguments. As I said earlier I can see arguments both ways on Frazier v vk.

Size advantage is size advantage regardless of weight class. As history has shown, it doesnt automatically lead to victory for the bigger man. But when you are talking about one fighter holding 50lb of weight, 7 inches of height and 9 inches of reach over another then its a significant advantage and far from irrelevant. The principal of size and weight advantage doesnt just go out the window when an arbitary weight limit is reached.

surely what is important is using whatever physique you have to your advantage. Mike Tyson turned his lack of height and weight into advantages. Taller boxers were forced to punch down exposing their chins, he was faster than them on their feet and used this creat angles and cut off the ring. Wk has become very adept at using his advantages, and perhaps equally importantly he knows his weaknesses and has adapted to minimize them.

KO-KING wrote:

kingraf wrote:Now look here Mawler. This is no time for fence-sitting. This is a forum defining thread, and saying these like "Arguments can be put forth on both sides should be banned. Mods?

those opinions are the only reasonable one, when it comes to vit vs joe, nothing is a given in that fight

It was just a bit of sarcasm KO. I appreciate these comments, even if I dont see it as a pick-'em.

Think horizontal has summed it up well.

Like manos says, we have weight classes for a reason, so the same principles apply at heavy. However the caveat to that is there becomes a point where the mobility disadvantage becomes greater than the size/weight/reach advantage.

That point would appear to be Nicolai valuev.

Any one else realise that the two tallest fighters Frazier faced, he lost to??? All this while we criticize Klitschko for losing to a 6'5 (six inches taller) Lewis??

Everyone was taller than Frazier ffs..........What a stupid thing to write........Ali and Foreman are two top ten heavies...........

kingraf wrote:Any one else realise that the two tallest fighters Frazier faced, he lost to??? All this while we criticize Klitschko for losing to a 6'5 (six inches taller) Lewis??

He lost to joe bugner did he?

Truss, you dont understand what Im saying, 6'4 Foreman was tied for the biggest fighters Frazier ever faced...
Bomavena was only 5'10.5
Ron Stander was 5'10
Chuvalo was only 6'1
Quarry was 6'0
Jimmy Ellis was 6'1
Doug Jones was 6'0
Terry Daniels was 6'1

So while he was the smaller guy in most of his fights, he very rarely (never) went into the ring with a guy a whole foremarm taller than him.

I reckon Hatton had a problem with 130 pounders.......because he lost to two guys who used to fight there..

I phrased it wrong, milky. Tried to properly get it across last post.

kingraf wrote:

KO-KING wrote:

kingraf wrote:Now look here Mawler. This is no time for fence-sitting. This is a forum defining thread, and saying these like "Arguments can be put forth on both sides should be banned. Mods?

those opinions are the only reasonable one, when it comes to vit vs joe, nothing is a given in that fight

It was just a bit of sarcasm KO. I appreciate these comments, even if I dont see it as a pick-'em.

I know, I was making a separate comment, just decided to quote you in doing so, since it went off it

@ KO-KING

Great OP by the way. Really really good stuff. right up my street. would love to see more of the same for other fighters.

TheMackemMawler wrote:@ KO-KING

Great OP by the way. Really really good stuff. right up my street. would love to see more of the same for other fighters.

thanks, am planning on doing one for Mayweather vs Canelo and a oscar de la hoya one, any suggestions?

If i played my hand early by giving suggestions then i'd have nothing to disagree with

TheMackemMawler wrote:If i played my hand early by giving suggestions then i'd have nothing to disagree with

I mean suggestions in fighters do it on, you can still disagree with my ratings

My Previous ones

Mikkel Kessler - https://www.606v2.com/t18455-rating-mikkel-kessler

Bute vs Pascal - https://www.606v2.com/t43590-rating-jean-pascall-vs-lucian-bute-angel-heredia-bute-ped-use-info-inside

Pacquiao vs Marquez 4 - https://www.606v2.com/t37515-episode-3-24-7-manny-pacquiao-vs-juan-manuel-marquez-ratings-build-up-poll-videos-etc

Ward vs Froch - https://www.606v2.com/t20372-rating-andre-ward-vs-carl-froch-fight-analysis

Ricky Hatton - https://www.606v2.com/t37775-rating-ricky-hitman-hatton-hof

Floyd vs Cotto - https://www.606v2.com/t27491-rating-miguel-cotto-vs-floyd-mayweather-head-to-head

Amir Khan - https://www.606v2.com/t17567-rating-amir-khan-s-attributes

Shane Mosley - https://www.606v2.com/t17633-rating-sugar-shane-mosley-attributes-prime

I didn't realise you had a history of rating fighters before i joined the board or otherwise.

TheMackemMawler wrote:I didn't realise you had a history of rating fighters before i joined the board or otherwise.

some didnt get much replies