--- Rating Wladimir Klitchsko ---

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My ratings

Technical Ability - 9.5, Like him or not, for a heavyweight He is technically one of the most superior boxers ever, Excellent jab and right hands also has a good left hook. standing at over 6 and a half feet the guy can box great, obviously the smaller the heavyweight is the more skill he has to have but Wlad's techinique with his size means that you wont see him beat anytime soon

Defence - 8, alot of WK success is down to his boxing skills but you can't overlook his size when it comes to defense. Like his brother he uses his size to lean back and get out out punching range, he is light on his feet and that accompanied with his size means he can effortlessly move out of range, when an opponent closes him down although he is very negative and boring, he is very effective with clinching.

Offence -7, in this catagory Wlad can be much better than he is, but for one reason or another (could be low confidence in chin or just poor mentality) he is not that good here and was much better in his younger days. Example of his offence not being great would be in the haye fight - sure the Klit fans would cry that haye was too defencive but if Wlad was a great offencive fighter he would get him out of there, if haye did that vs Louis he would be out inside 5.

Footwork - 9, this in my opinion is a area where his ability is overlooked. He has great physical advantages over his opponents yes, but without excellent footwork and a poor chin people would find him and KO him, he is able to close of a ring when needed and is excellent backing away and getting out of range, Always in balance and always composed because of this .

Accuracy - 8, He has good accuracy but not great. He has very accurate jab and right hand but level of competition has to be looked at, he hasn't really faced an opponent who is exactly hard to hit, when he did in haye WK did not have the same succes he usually has.

Power - 9, He has great power - he has very powerful jab, right hand and left hook, tools that could have made him a very exciting fighter, but lack of aggressive mentality has meant it's rare you see Klitcshko take out an opponent before round 10, overmatched opponents are able to go 10 but that doesn't reflect WK's power, as he only throws few right hands per round and a even rare left hook before 10.

Speed - 7, he has excellent speed for a heavyweight of his size, but this ratings are not done to size its done to division, so although for his size its excellent as a heavyweight overall it doesn't compare that well, but its still very good. He can throw quick jabs and right hands, also good quick left hooks - all with power. But he isn't the fastest and not close.

Versatility - 6, He is able to both Box and if he wanted he would be able to brawl like his early days, but that's not how he fights now, meaning he only boxes and can only box - doesn' have confidence in his chin to trade punches.

Stamina - 7, He is able to go full 12 no problem, but he has no one to push him, he doesn't have a really high work rate so you can't know what's his limit, he in his prime takes very few punches and hasn't been in a fight where he needed to find his second wind - doesn't show how good is stamina is, but rather the lack of solid competition there is, meaning no one to push him out of his comfort zone and over his limit. He did gas against purity

Heart - 7.5, He showed tremendous heart to come back from 3 KO losses and was floored 3 times against peter in the first fight, a fight many said it was not if but a when WK is going to get KO'd. But at his peak he is head and shoulders above his competetion, only his brother stand with him. Yet the man refuses to open up and be aggressive and give the boxing fans excitement, being the Heavyweight Champion of the world, he has the power to make boxing mainstream again, but to do that you need explosive KO's - something WK refuses - not can't- to deliver. E.g. against haye he didn't really let his hands go, sure haye was defensive and fought poorly, but if you're a great with KO power, you should be able to take a guy like Haye out, that fight showed two guys who didn't want to risk going for it, for the fear of getting KO'd.

Chin - 4.5, his chin is bad, just bad, terrible. I don't criticize people's all that often because the often get hit with excellent punches leading people to believe and say that that KO victim has a glass chin, ignoring the Great punch and not giving credit to the fighter delivering the punch. But I can't defend WK, the man has no chin, he gets hit and he panics, he has KO'd 3 times and not by fighter with solid punching power (apart from Saunders). David Haye, a cruiserweight puncher, stunned him with a normal overhand right in the 12th, Wach seemed to stun him also, his excellent defence and poor competition often hides his chin.

Physical Attributes - 10, Do I really need to explain. Many times after the fight I read comments saying Klitchsko was too big, I don't agree with this - he beats his opponents because he is too Skilled, Of course his size has a lot to do with it but it's not the main aspect. WK is excellent and controlling range and fighting to his strengths, his footwork and defensive technique of pulling back means the opponents more often than not fall short of there target. This isn't a rating of size, it's a rating of how the individual uses it, for example Paul Williams would not get that high of a rating although physically he was a freak of nature, he didn't use it - unlike Wladimir

Overall - 8

Some attributes are missing though such as Cut/Swelling resistance and ring IQ etc...

For me he is a top 15 Heavyweight and a Solid HOF fighter.

You can argue whether Lewis is too low in those rankings... And personally I do think so... But the real stinker is Tunney? I mean really. Great fighter, well worth a high p4p ranking but as a heavyweight? 3 fights?

hazharrison wrote:

KO-KING wrote:

hazharrison wrote:
Dear me. I give up. Golota fled the ring because Tyson was hurting him. Bowe signed to fight Lewis but Lewis got knocked out by a journeyman heavyweight with one punch.

Golota wasn't winning the Bowe rematch easily either - he almost quit before getting himself thrown out.

bowe threw his belt in the bin, golota was up by few rounds on each fight.

And?

I suppose you could say that Golota wasn't winning the Bowe fight 'easily', but he was definitely well on top and would have most likely stopped Bowe had it gone longer. Bowe himself acknowledges that there was no doubt that Golota was winning the fight when he was disqualified for those infamous low blows.

People often hypothesize that Bowe would have beaten Lewis, but this really is fairly aimless speculation. He may well have been able to do the job, but the fact that he seemed to want to avoid Lewis added to the fact that the last time they met (as amateurs admittedly) he was stopped means that the weight of evidence isn't exactly in his favour.

... There's a lot of bowe apologists around. Very talented fighter, but his rep is based entirely around the Holyfield trilogy. Not a bad trilogy to have for your cv, but he limped past tony tubbs, was in real trouble against herbie hide, when he wasn't swatting him to the canvas... And although he was apparently shot by the time of Golota, the first Golota fight was his next fight after holy 3.

I'm far from convinced he beats pre manny Lewis. Infact, I have a suspicion he does better against the more gunshy later version.

Its not really, Lewis was wild and often made mistakes in those days - peak for peak Lewis might beat him but that earlier version (who was being controlled by Bruno) probably wouldnt have. Until recently Bowes binning of the title spoke of his fear but I have increasingly come to think that it was a financial decision and they wanted to strike while the iron was hot. Then Lewis giot flattened by Mccall and that nipped it in the bud.

I think they recognised the fight was a risk, and wanted to milk the cash cow first shah... Pretty common practice really, but the binning of the belt, and their amateur history, didn't make it look good.

sittingringside wrote:People often hypothesize that Bowe would have beaten Lewis, but this really is fairly aimless speculation. He may well have been able to do the job, but the fact that he seemed to want to avoid Lewis added to the fact that the last time they met (as amateurs admittedly) he was stopped means that the weight of evidence isn't exactly in his favour.

this, pretty much, would have been am excellent fight

KO-KING wrote:

sittingringside wrote:People often hypothesize that Bowe would have beaten Lewis, but this really is fairly aimless speculation. He may well have been able to do the job, but the fact that he seemed to want to avoid Lewis added to the fact that the last time they met (as amateurs admittedly) he was stopped means that the weight of evidence isn't exactly in his favour.

this, pretty much, would have been am excellent fight

Would have certainly made both men rich.

sittingringside wrote:

KO-KING wrote:

sittingringside wrote:People often hypothesize that Bowe would have beaten Lewis, but this really is fairly aimless speculation. He may well have been able to do the job, but the fact that he seemed to want to avoid Lewis added to the fact that the last time they met (as amateurs admittedly) he was stopped means that the weight of evidence isn't exactly in his favour.

this, pretty much, would have been am excellent fight

Would have certainly made both men rich.

Riddick Bowe could have done with the extra $$

KO-KING wrote:

sittingringside wrote:

KO-KING wrote:

sittingringside wrote:People often hypothesize that Bowe would have beaten Lewis, but this really is fairly aimless speculation. He may well have been able to do the job, but the fact that he seemed to want to avoid Lewis added to the fact that the last time they met (as amateurs admittedly) he was stopped means that the weight of evidence isn't exactly in his favour.

this, pretty much, would have been am excellent fight

Would have certainly made both men rich.

Riddick Bowe could have done with the extra $$

Lewis could have done with that great white whale, the 'defining fight'

milkyboy wrote:... There's a lot of bowe apologists around. Very talented fighter, but his rep is based entirely around the Holyfield trilogy. Not a bad trilogy to have for your cv, but he limped past tony tubbs, was in real trouble against herbie hide, when he wasn't swatting him to the canvas... And although he was apparently shot by the time of Golota, the first Golota fight was his next fight after holy 3.

I'm far from convinced he beats pre manny Lewis. Infact, I have a suspicion he does better against the more gunshy later version.

What? Herbie's speed caused him problems for the first round and a half. Then as soon as he landed THAT jab, it was all over. He was never in any trouble.

What is Lewis's defining fight? A "draw" against a washed up Holyfield? A KO against a shell of Tyson? Or Tua? Hardly great wins.

azania wrote:

milkyboy wrote:... There's a lot of bowe apologists around. Very talented fighter, but his rep is based entirely around the Holyfield trilogy. Not a bad trilogy to have for your cv, but he limped past tony tubbs, was in real trouble against herbie hide, when he wasn't swatting him to the canvas... And although he was apparently shot by the time of Golota, the first Golota fight was his next fight after holy 3.

I'm far from convinced he beats pre manny Lewis. Infact, I have a suspicion he does better against the more gunshy later version.

What? Herbie's speed caused him problems for the first round and a half. Then as soon as he landed THAT jab, it was all over. He was never in any trouble.

What is Lewis's defining fight? A "draw" against a washed up Holyfield? A KO against a shell of Tyson? Or Tua? Hardly great wins.

Who did you want Lewis to fight can't recall him ducking anybody,avenged his 2 defeats and beat everybody else.

I didn't say he ducked anyone. Just that he hasn't had that defining fight that Bowe has.

azania wrote:

milkyboy wrote:... There's a lot of bowe apologists around. Very talented fighter, but his rep is based entirely around the Holyfield trilogy. Not a bad trilogy to have for your cv, but he limped past tony tubbs, was in real trouble against herbie hide, when he wasn't swatting him to the canvas... And although he was apparently shot by the time of Golota, the first Golota fight was his next fight after holy 3.

I'm far from convinced he beats pre manny Lewis. Infact, I have a suspicion he does better against the more gunshy later version.

What? Herbie's speed caused him problems for the first round and a half. Then as soon as he landed THAT jab, it was all over. He was never in any trouble.

What is Lewis's defining fight? A "draw" against a washed up Holyfield? A KO against a shell of Tyson? Or Tua? Hardly great wins.

Re your first point. Bowe looked in trouble to me... Something I'm pretty sure he admitted himself in a later interview.

Re your second point. I agree. lewis lacked a defining fight... i said on the lewis thread that the mccall defeat, robbed us of lewis probably fighting bowe, and holy and tyson earlier.

Calling the first holy fight a draw is kind of nailing your colours to the mast. Chavez Whittaker was a draw too, but it's a not a fight Chavez fans brag about.

The trouble he referred to was the speed of Herbie. Bowe was never hurt or wobbled.

As for the Lewis/Holy first fight. I put draw in inverted commas. I agree that it was anything but. Doesn't escape the fact that Holy was washed up.

Haven't seen the interview, just seen it referenced, so can't vouch for it, but the references I saw talked of hide being the hardest puncher he'd faced and of bowe being out on his feet. He looked in trouble to me az, but guess we all see these things differently.

http://www.examiner.com/article/biofile-interview-with-riddick-bowe

Just for reference az, under hardest puncher.

Boxers are often very gracious after the event. But I've watched the fight and Bowe wasn't wobbled even once. Hide may hit hard but Bowe was not shaken. Watch the fight again if its on you tube.

You surprise me az, there i was expecting the usual slice of humble from you.

Bowe made a point of saying only instinct kept him up, he states hide was the hardest punching opponent he fought. But yeh, he's just being nice. Because boxer's are.

I watched the fight at the time and thought he was in trouble, i've seen it since and thought he was in trouble but, I should know better. I'll ignore what my eyes told me and what the guy taking the punches thinks, and go with your view

Here's the fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ikUKdw3jeg

Herbie's best punch was thrown at the end of round one. A hard right on the point of the chin. No effect on Bowe.

I only watched the first 3 rounds as if I recall correctly the rest was one sided with Herbie being bounced like a yo yo. If you can point out where Bowe was staggered or in real trouble I'd appreciate it.

azania wrote:Here's the fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ikUKdw3jeg

Herbie's best punch was thrown at the end of round one. A hard right on the point of the chin. No effect on Bowe.

I've seen the fight and Hide was the better boxer but something looked wrong with him because he was getting knocked down by jabs. Something was not right with him that night.

Oops, round 3 Hide land a card right which made Bowe hold on and was dragged around. He recovered within 5 seconds.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

azania wrote:Here's the fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ikUKdw3jeg

Herbie's best punch was thrown at the end of round one. A hard right on the point of the chin. No effect on Bowe.

I've seen the fight and Hide was the better boxer but something looked wrong with him because he was getting knocked down by jabs. Something was not right with him that night.

Nothing was wrong with him. He was gassing after 2 rounds. Nervous energy and too much movement. He was scared and fought accordingly.

Bless, you're watching, trying desperately hard to be proved right. I can't be bothered and riddick's done my homework for me, so I don't need to. I'm fairly sure in between the yo yo's hide was still catching him, and wobbled him again in the 4th or 5th. Better watch those rounds now.

Bowe had good powers of recovery, doesn't mean he wasnt hurt.

After this I'm going to claim nelson de Leon was a slugfest and get you to do a round by round analysis.

azania wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

azania wrote:Here's the fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ikUKdw3jeg

Herbie's best punch was thrown at the end of round one. A hard right on the point of the chin. No effect on Bowe.

I've seen the fight and Hide was the better boxer but something looked wrong with him because he was getting knocked down by jabs. Something was not right with him that night.

Nothing was wrong with him. He was gassing after 2 rounds. Nervous energy and too much movement. He was scared and fought accordingly.

The guy looked fatigued. He was getting knocked down by grazing jabs.

I believe a head clash preceded the first knockdown (if you look closely) and Herbie's legs were never the same.

Been a while since I watched it, though.

Ach, I comment on a thread then a day later you go and add tweny pages...