--- Rating Wladimir Klitchsko ---

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My ratings

Technical Ability - 9.5, Like him or not, for a heavyweight He is technically one of the most superior boxers ever, Excellent jab and right hands also has a good left hook. standing at over 6 and a half feet the guy can box great, obviously the smaller the heavyweight is the more skill he has to have but Wlad's techinique with his size means that you wont see him beat anytime soon

Defence - 8, alot of WK success is down to his boxing skills but you can't overlook his size when it comes to defense. Like his brother he uses his size to lean back and get out out punching range, he is light on his feet and that accompanied with his size means he can effortlessly move out of range, when an opponent closes him down although he is very negative and boring, he is very effective with clinching.

Offence -7, in this catagory Wlad can be much better than he is, but for one reason or another (could be low confidence in chin or just poor mentality) he is not that good here and was much better in his younger days. Example of his offence not being great would be in the haye fight - sure the Klit fans would cry that haye was too defencive but if Wlad was a great offencive fighter he would get him out of there, if haye did that vs Louis he would be out inside 5.

Footwork - 9, this in my opinion is a area where his ability is overlooked. He has great physical advantages over his opponents yes, but without excellent footwork and a poor chin people would find him and KO him, he is able to close of a ring when needed and is excellent backing away and getting out of range, Always in balance and always composed because of this .

Accuracy - 8, He has good accuracy but not great. He has very accurate jab and right hand but level of competition has to be looked at, he hasn't really faced an opponent who is exactly hard to hit, when he did in haye WK did not have the same succes he usually has.

Power - 9, He has great power - he has very powerful jab, right hand and left hook, tools that could have made him a very exciting fighter, but lack of aggressive mentality has meant it's rare you see Klitcshko take out an opponent before round 10, overmatched opponents are able to go 10 but that doesn't reflect WK's power, as he only throws few right hands per round and a even rare left hook before 10.

Speed - 7, he has excellent speed for a heavyweight of his size, but this ratings are not done to size its done to division, so although for his size its excellent as a heavyweight overall it doesn't compare that well, but its still very good. He can throw quick jabs and right hands, also good quick left hooks - all with power. But he isn't the fastest and not close.

Versatility - 6, He is able to both Box and if he wanted he would be able to brawl like his early days, but that's not how he fights now, meaning he only boxes and can only box - doesn' have confidence in his chin to trade punches.

Stamina - 7, He is able to go full 12 no problem, but he has no one to push him, he doesn't have a really high work rate so you can't know what's his limit, he in his prime takes very few punches and hasn't been in a fight where he needed to find his second wind - doesn't show how good is stamina is, but rather the lack of solid competition there is, meaning no one to push him out of his comfort zone and over his limit. He did gas against purity

Heart - 7.5, He showed tremendous heart to come back from 3 KO losses and was floored 3 times against peter in the first fight, a fight many said it was not if but a when WK is going to get KO'd. But at his peak he is head and shoulders above his competetion, only his brother stand with him. Yet the man refuses to open up and be aggressive and give the boxing fans excitement, being the Heavyweight Champion of the world, he has the power to make boxing mainstream again, but to do that you need explosive KO's - something WK refuses - not can't- to deliver. E.g. against haye he didn't really let his hands go, sure haye was defensive and fought poorly, but if you're a great with KO power, you should be able to take a guy like Haye out, that fight showed two guys who didn't want to risk going for it, for the fear of getting KO'd.

Chin - 4.5, his chin is bad, just bad, terrible. I don't criticize people's all that often because the often get hit with excellent punches leading people to believe and say that that KO victim has a glass chin, ignoring the Great punch and not giving credit to the fighter delivering the punch. But I can't defend WK, the man has no chin, he gets hit and he panics, he has KO'd 3 times and not by fighter with solid punching power (apart from Saunders). David Haye, a cruiserweight puncher, stunned him with a normal overhand right in the 12th, Wach seemed to stun him also, his excellent defence and poor competition often hides his chin.

Physical Attributes - 10, Do I really need to explain. Many times after the fight I read comments saying Klitchsko was too big, I don't agree with this - he beats his opponents because he is too Skilled, Of course his size has a lot to do with it but it's not the main aspect. WK is excellent and controlling range and fighting to his strengths, his footwork and defensive technique of pulling back means the opponents more often than not fall short of there target. This isn't a rating of size, it's a rating of how the individual uses it, for example Paul Williams would not get that high of a rating although physically he was a freak of nature, he didn't use it - unlike Wladimir

Overall - 8

Some attributes are missing though such as Cut/Swelling resistance and ring IQ etc...

For me he is a top 15 Heavyweight and a Solid HOF fighter.

vitali is the better brother by far, he has the best CV and beat little brothers conqueror for him. he gave lewis all he could handle in a great fight, but was stopped on cuts, not really a conclusive win (even though i though lewis was pulling away in the fight). he has the best chin at heavyweight.

he is slowing down these days but still overall is the more impressive brother

in my opinion Vitali vs Fraizer is a 50/50 fight, i might give the edge to Vitali, Fraizer had a Great Left Hook, but lets not pretend he can take out Vitali with few clean punches, against vitali he wont land that much, Vitali has a very good defence

Fraizer Takes out Wlad inside 5 9/10 for me, just would get hurt with one clean left hook, doesn't have Vitali's high work rate either to keep him off

eddyfightfan wrote:vitali is the better brother by far, he has the best CV and beat little brothers conqueror for him. he gave lewis all he could handle in a great fight, but was stopped on cuts, not really a conclusive win (even though i though lewis was pulling away in the fight). he has the best chin at heavyweight.

he is slowing down these days but still overall is the more impressive brother

Wlad has dominated this era of Heavyweights, I agree that Vitali is better, but not on resume, Wlad has dominated, 13 or so consecutive defences and he has fought contenders, Vitali has fought Like 3 after coming back, few more before aswell, sure if he didnt retire he would have dominated, but this is Wladimirs era of dominance not Vitali's

How do you know Vitali takes the best left hook in Boxing...

I'll pretend...........

Because Foreman did...
Keep pretending

But on a serious note. Sanders hits harder than Frazier and he didnt drop Klitschko (much to my ten year old minds dissapointment). Frazier had 41 fights, 27 by way of KO, unless the Left hook went missing in a third of his fights, then I think that left-hook is a little "mythical" in nature.

kingraf wrote:But on a serious note. Sanders hits harder than Frazier and he didnt drop Klitschko (much to my ten year old minds dissapointment). Frazier had 41 fights, 27 by way of KO, unless the Left hook went missing in a third of his fights, then I think that left-hook is a little "mythical" in nature.

Shavers/Foreman couldn't knock Ali down and yet Frazier did...........

Frazier couldnt knock down Foreman yet Ali did...

He never caught him..........You haven't seen the fight.

Vitali has a significant size and weight advantage over Frazier and he has a proven chin. Took big shots from hitters like Lewis and Sanders without going down. Nobody will "know" if he can take Fraziers left hook without it ever actually happening but he has a proven good chin. When you add that to 50lb weight advantage then theres reasonable grounds for saying he copes with Fraziers power sufficiently to win.

kingraf wrote:But on a serious note. Sanders hits harder than Frazier

Whaaaaaaaa...????

kingraf wrote:But on a serious note. Sanders hits harder than Frazier and he didnt drop Klitschko (much to my ten year old minds dissapointment). Frazier had 41 fights, 27 by way of KO, unless the Left hook went missing in a third of his fights, then I think that left-hook is a little "mythical" in nature.

So you haven't seen him fight then?

He's not as quick...He's open, he struggles with Frazier's stamina and his workrate isn't as good..........

But you're right there are sufficient grounds..

manos de piedra wrote:Vitali has a significant size and weight advantage over Frazier and he has a proven chin. Took big shots from hitters like Lewis and Sanders without going down. Nobody will "know" if he can take Fraziers left hook without it ever actually happening but he has a proven good chin. When you add that to 50lb weight advantage then theres reasonable grounds for saying he copes with Fraziers power sufficiently to win.

Vitali was once busted for steroids. Imagine Frazier on steroids. He'd be knocking them over the top rope.

If Chisora could give Vitali a fight, Frazier would beat him up.

Yes. Its true. Shavers also hit harder than Frazier.
Sanders would have been a very good/great fighter if he actually cared about the sport, not freaking boxing

Vitali was 40 vs Chisora. Or are we also bring up Ali's latter fights, when we bring him up?

No he doesn't because by your stupid logic..he couldn't knock Ali down and Frazier did...

You're a wum.

hazharrison wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Vitali has a significant size and weight advantage over Frazier and he has a proven chin. Took big shots from hitters like Lewis and Sanders without going down. Nobody will "know" if he can take Fraziers left hook without it ever actually happening but he has a proven good chin. When you add that to 50lb weight advantage then theres reasonable grounds for saying he copes with Fraziers power sufficiently to win.

Vitali was once busted for steroids. Imagine Frazier on steroids. He'd be knocking them over the top rope.

If Chisora could give Vitali a fight, Frazier would beat him up.

Yeah a 40 year old Vitali. I imagine a peak Vitali would handle a 40y year old Frazier pretty easily.

Lewis couldn't miss his face everytime he threw a punch so I imagine the left hook lands plenty...

Sanders, woefully unfit as he was, had Vitali scampering around the ring in terror everytime he threw a shot.

"Is this what the HW division has become?" I thought...and wept silently!

actually - his jabs connected 33% of the time, meaning he could miss...

That was your stupid logic Truss.. I just followed suit. calling people names doesnt reflect well on you

Frazier v either Klistchko could depend on the ref. If they're allowed to elbow his head all night either could win, if not I pick Joe. Mainly due to pace.

Look at the pace he set in his prime, or even when he was shot to pieaces and fighting in the boiling heat of Manila. It's far faster than anything either bro has ever seen. Vit was knackered after six with and old but still dangerous Lewis, who rarely set a high pace, and Wlad gassed a couple of times earlier in his career, when he fought at a higher pace. Since then neither have been forced to show their lungs as they've been head and shoulders above everything theyv faced, although I'm sure I remember Chisora looking much fresher after twelve than Vitali. Chisora, a guy often derided on here and could not miss Vitali's body.

If Frazier wasn't taken out early he got stronger as the night went on, and the bros never take anyone out early. His head movement was good enough to make Ali miss, he was hard to hurt once in his rhythm and his power lasted for sixteen rounds. Vitali has durability but lacks the movement or one shot power, I think hed last the distance but have to dig deep to do it as Frazier would have his body red with welts. I think he topples Wlad who has no legal inside game and Frazier closed down a ring as well as anyone. Who has Wlad faced who was great at closing down the ring?
I give Wlad a better chance than Vit though. More firepower to fend smokin Joe off.

You pointed out at least four fighters Frazier didn't ko to say he couldn't punch...

Yet you cite Shavers who couldn't ko Tillis, Ali etc...

Contradicting yourself all the time..

how is that a contradiction? Do you rate Frazier a bigger puncher than Shavers? Yes or no?

kingraf wrote:Yes. Its true. Shavers also hit harder than Frazier.
Sanders would have been a very good/great fighter if he actually cared about the sport, not freaking boxing

So you knew him? And you've been punched by Frazier, Sanders and Shavers? I imagine you have a very flat nose.

i cite shavers because he is accepted as the hardest hitter of that era.

kingraf wrote:Vitali was 40 vs Chisora. Or are we also bring up Ali's latter fights, when we bring him up?

Vitali was same old same old versus Chisora. Ali was finished after Foreman.

hazharrison wrote:

kingraf wrote:Vitali was 40 vs Chisora. Or are we also bring up Ali's latter fights, when we bring him up?

Vitali was same old same old versus Chisora. Ali was finished after Foreman.

Sure

Haz - no not personally, but he lived in Brits, about 30 minutes away from my Grandmothers house. Also, my work colleague knew him very well, from golf days, & he always says that Sanders would rather be in the greens than in the ring, nine days out of ten.

It's true, Vitali wasn't at his best vs Chisora, but his main attributes remained, just dulled slightly. A 40 year old Frazier/Ali are far, far more removed from their primes than a 40 year old Vitali, which is to his credit. Disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

kingraf wrote:i cite shavers because he is accepted as the hardest hitter of that era.

Frazier left hook is regarded as the best in heavy boxing........

Wladimir Klitschko...where do I begin?

Firstly, I'll do as I always do, say whether I like him or not. I like his personality. Think he's classy as they come infront of the camera (yet to see anything off camera to say he wouldn't be all around classy) but I find his style boring. Notice I said boring. His style is effective, and brilliant. I don't like his fights because they're dull. He hasn't exactly got the best pool to choose from, and when he does, he switches to what he knows - how to win fights.

I largely agree with a lot of what KO-KING has said about Wlad, his opposition I feel has been the best it could be, minus his brother. He's taken on the biggest fight he could have (Haye) and beaten him convincingly. Strongy will have you believe that Haye was a bum and isn't very good, but you don't unify the Cruiserweight division, go up and dominate very large heavyweights and provide excitement unless you're quite decent.

Wlad will go down as 12/13 for me - his longevity now owed to the fact he has a lot in his favour, and not entirely due to his size. His technique is special now. He has fast hands for a heavyweight. I'm not saying he's the second coming of Ali, but he surprised everyone vs Haye by showing he could match him for speed. Haye is also very quick, meaning that it was a huge boost to our opinion or should be.

In terms of his power, he has an incredible knockout ratio (is it 2nd highest in history?) so to claim he has no power is ridiculous. May not have many highlight reel knockouts, but the fact is he's a concussive and powerful puncher. His straight right would stop a train when he throws with venom.

Physical attributes? He works with what he has, very well indeed. Look at Tyson Fury. Similar size - HUGE gulf in talent. Fury doesn't try to evade punches by leaning back, he takes them on the guard, he doesn't dominate the ring with his size, he just shuffles forward instead of sidestepping to stop his opponent having any choice but be directly infront of him and taking the jab. Wlads jab is a ramrod, but it isn't used to damage, its used for range, something Tyson Fury can't do as he's too busy doing a stupid shuffle or hitting himself in the face.

Wlad won a gold medal for being an outstanding amateur, and he's reigned at the top of the game for nearly 10 years, fighting every single heavyweight he could besides his brother. He's also fought 60 times. You tell me if you can see any other heavyweight fighting that many times in the future.

Rubbishing his accolades is pointless. You should be looking to him as a benchmark for how poor the era is. Without him, we'd have multiple heavyweight champions and it'd be so bad, with no real view as to what "elite" looks like.

I never denied that. What I said is Sanders hits harder. What I do deny is youre ascertion that all it had to do is land. Caught Ali flush a few times in Manilla...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:He's not as quick...He's open, he struggles with Frazier's stamina and his workrate isn't as good..........

But you're right there are sufficient grounds..

???? Vitali has a tremendous workrate

I think its wholly inaccurate to use a 41 year old, visibily less mobile and athletic Vitali who had almost 4 years out of the ring and significant injury problems (shoulder and knee) as being a fair representative of him at his peak. Vitali from 2003 or 2004 would have battered Chisora. Injuries and age have robbed him of movement and power these days.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Lewis couldn't miss his face everytime he threw a punch so I imagine the left hook lands plenty...

Did Lewis Drop Vitali, Lewis is a bigger puncher than Fraizer, Lewis is so much bigger than fraizer, he didn't have to fight against a huge size disadvantage, against Vitali, fraizer would give up 8 inches and 40 odd pounds, lets not forget vitali's punching power either, it would be a great fight between fraizer and Vitali, but fraizer would have to come through alot to get to vitali

Everyone is a bigger puncher than Frazier apparently.

Well, thats normally what happens when you compare a 5'11 200 pounders hitting power with 6'4 230+ pounders.

Frazier was a beast of a puncher, think he'd have given Vitali nightmares personally. We have to put Vitali in Ali's shoes - not sure Vitali deals with him in the same manner. Frazier would soak up a lot of what Vitali was pushing forward and really get to work on his body.

Joe Louis couldn't punch then either..

Truss you are probably one of those people who believes that Carl Lewis would take Bolt in a 100m race.

On the contrary...........

I big up modern fighters as everyone knows.............

I just think you are demeaning Frazier slightly..........The one decent name Vitali has fought beat him..

Beat him on account of a cut caused the thumb of a glove... Hardly the same as getting dropped six times in two rounds. Im a massive Frazier fan myself, but this is all wrong for him.

Thus far I've only read the first line of the OP and no comments.....9.5 technical ability? Tactical ability perhaps but not technical ability.

.... actually tactical ability considers adaptability, therefore he'd score low on this element too.

If we marked him on the ability to execute One Particular Tactical Plan very well then he'd score 9.5.

Surprised nobody has read my comment

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Wladimir Klitschko...where do I begin?

Firstly, I'll do as I always do, say whether I like him or not. I like his personality. Think he's classy as they come infront of the camera (yet to see anything off camera to say he wouldn't be all around classy) but I find his style boring. Notice I said boring. His style is effective, and brilliant. I don't like his fights because they're dull. He hasn't exactly got the best pool to choose from, and when he does, he switches to what he knows - how to win fights.

I largely agree with a lot of what KO-KING has said about Wlad, his opposition I feel has been the best it could be, minus his brother. He's taken on the biggest fight he could have (Haye) and beaten him convincingly. Strongy will have you believe that Haye was a bum and isn't very good, but you don't unify the Cruiserweight division, go up and dominate very large heavyweights and provide excitement unless you're quite decent.

Wlad will go down as 12/13 for me - his longevity now owed to the fact he has a lot in his favour, and not entirely due to his size. His technique is special now. He has fast hands for a heavyweight. I'm not saying he's the second coming of Ali, but he surprised everyone vs Haye by showing he could match him for speed. Haye is also very quick, meaning that it was a huge boost to our opinion or should be.

In terms of his power, he has an incredible knockout ratio (is it 2nd highest in history?) so to claim he has no power is ridiculous. May not have many highlight reel knockouts, but the fact is he's a concussive and powerful puncher. His straight right would stop a train when he throws with venom.

Physical attributes? He works with what he has, very well indeed. Look at Tyson Fury. Similar size - HUGE gulf in talent. Fury doesn't try to evade punches by leaning back, he takes them on the guard, he doesn't dominate the ring with his size, he just shuffles forward instead of sidestepping to stop his opponent having any choice but be directly infront of him and taking the jab. Wlads jab is a ramrod, but it isn't used to damage, its used for range, something Tyson Fury can't do as he's too busy doing a stupid shuffle or hitting himself in the face.

Wlad won a gold medal for being an outstanding amateur, and he's reigned at the top of the game for nearly 10 years, fighting every single heavyweight he could besides his brother. He's also fought 60 times. You tell me if you can see any other heavyweight fighting that many times in the future.

Rubbishing his accolades is pointless. You should be looking to him as a benchmark for how poor the era is. Without him, we'd have multiple heavyweight champions and it'd be so bad, with no real view as to what "elite" looks like.

good post

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Surprised nobody has read my comment

i did, everyone is busy arguing

Ah its been happening more often than usual recently. Perhaps people have been out in the sun too long.

Jab - I did, but acknowledging a Good post by someone not you arent directly arguing with is like, stopping to smell the flowers in the middle of a war..