Lions red card question

If a lions player gets a red, I'm thinking Farrell here, can they call a replacement up? Part of me hopes they can but another part thinks that the punishment should mean no replacement being called in. Anyone know what the rules state?

No they cant, neither can Australia.

beardybrain wrote:If a lions player gets a red, I'm thinking Farrell here, can they call a replacement up? Part of me hopes they can but another part thinks that the punishment should mean no replacement being called in. Anyone know what the rules state?

Has Farrell got a history of been sent off then............ or is there something else you are attempting to suggest?

Do you mean if a player is suspended can they call a replacement into the touring party? I believe so, I don't see why it would be any different to Best replacing Hartley.

I'm suggesting that Farell is young, and arguably could have been sent off for the retaliation against Brits on Saturday, and I have no doubt the Aussies will target him to get him riled and wrekless, so with only one other Fly half in the squad if the worst happens and he gets sent off, do we have to play the rest of the tour with just the one fly half?

Beardy.
Perhaps you might want to look at researching the difference between getting red carded and getting suspended.

beardybrain wrote:I'm suggesting that Farell is young, and arguably could have been sent off for the retaliation against Brits on Saturday, and I have no doubt the Aussies will target him to get him riled and wrekless, so with only one other Fly half in the squad if the worst happens and he gets sent off, do we have to play the rest of the tour with just the one fly half?

You can say the same for many players in the squad who at some point have retaliated and in a much more "elaborate way"...... Hogg, Phillips. BOD, Tuilagi etc etc. Farrell I think is normally very cool and collected, doubt very much if they will target Farrell anymore than the others.

Hogg can play 10 and Mr G has stated that he sees him as something akin to a "utility player"

beardybrain wrote:I'm suggesting that Farell is young, and arguably could have been sent off for the retaliation against Brits on Saturday, and I have no doubt the Aussies will target him to get him riled and wrekless, so with only one other Fly half in the squad if the worst happens and he gets sent off, do we have to play the rest of the tour with just the one fly half?

very arguably...in a proper game it woul dhave warranted a yellow for retaliation but in the circs i think after being shortarmed he did pretty well not to lamp him. never a red. but he is a hug eweakness in temperament, the way mik ephilipps used to be and if you really get him going he can still kick off.

Beefy

Farrell has a huge weakness in his temperament...... really?

How many times has he been yellow or red carded in his career?, I remember his body check on Dan Biggar when the Sarries played Ospreys which was a tad unlucky.

As I've mentioned before on the forum, there are only two players on tour who have been red carded at Test level. One is our captain. and the other is playing number eight in a few hours.

Brian O'Driscoll could have been sent off in the 2nd test in the last tour for his shoulder charge on Russouw. Personally I think it would have been harsh but it was certainly a yellow. Now that was one of our most senior players in perhaps the most important test of his career to date.... the fact he injured himself in the process probably saved him.

Then again perhaps about 5 or 6 players could have been given yellows that day. It was a brutal match.

I wouldn't worry about Farrell too much, I'd rather he is combative then one who is bullied and backs down. Mike Phillips & Cian Healy are just as much as a worry as Farrell in that department if not more... and those 2 are more likely to start then Farrell.

Its slightly crass to single out Farrell for this... it has little backing. If you wanted to make a more valid point perhaps it would have been more valid to mention the above 2 players ahead of him.

I dislike the criticism Farell is getting for his reaction, he found himself in an unfaliliar position, was very clever in his job (ie holding Brits shirt) and from there on in was nothing but a victim.

Brits clearly realise who was holding him, and without making any attempt whatsoever to pull free, move Farells hand, or even saying a word he throws a haymaker with his left that didn't connect too badly.

Farells reaction was to leap up and grab hold of Brits who threw himeslf over as soon as Farells hand touched any part of his body.

Ive lost a lot of respect for Brits, and this was definately a pre determined cheap shot to hurt Farell and then maybe get him sent off, it was a pathetic play and Farells reaction was nowhere near OTT, if that had happened to ANY other player on the pitch Brits gets lumped straight back, and if it had happened to a certain few he probably would be waking up today from the response!

The fact that Brits publicly apologised says it all really.

fa0019 wrote:Brian O'Driscoll could have been sent off in the 2nd test in the last tour for his shoulder charge on Russouw. Personally I think it would have been harsh but it was certainly a yellow. Now that was one of our most senior players in perhaps the most important test of his career to date.... the fact he injured himself in the process probably saved him.

Then again perhaps about 5 or 6 players could have been given yellows that day. It was a brutal match.

I wouldn't worry about Farrell too much, I'd rather he is combative then one who is bullied and backs down. Mike Phillips & Cian Healy are just as much as a worry as Farrell in that department if not more... and those 2 are more likely to start then Farrell.

Its slightly crass to single out Farrell for this... it has little backing. If you wanted to make a more valid point perhaps it would have been more valid to mention the above 2 players ahead of him.

No chance, his arms were up and out, it's just the contact took him as much as Brussouw by surprise and BOD's arms bounced out as he was knocked back!!! That was one of the toughest tackles Ive seen (have to give Brussouw credit for taking it, many other players wouldve been flattened and hurt), and it was in keeping with one of the most brutal games in rugbys history, Shalke aside it was a pretty clean series!

On the margins at best. There was no wrap around. The fact that both men got injured and had to go off from the tackle also suggests it was in a very grey area of the law... and one which a ref could have easily brought out a card for.

People are making way too much of Farrell's retaliation, which was little more than a shove after being punched in the face.

To the OP, yes obviously the Lions can call up a replacement if a player got red carded and subsequently suspended. They can call up whoever they like whenever they like. See Hartley and Quinlan.

fa0019 wrote:On the margins at best. There was no wrap around. The fact that both men got injured and had to go off from the tackle also suggests it was in a very grey area of the law... and one which a ref could have easily brought out a card for.

There was a clear attempt at a wrap around though.

thomh wrote:People are making way too much of Farrell's retaliation, which was little more than a shove after being punched in the face.

To the OP, yes obviously the Lions can call up a replacement if a player got red carded and subsequently suspended. They can call up whoever they like whenever they like. See Hartley and Quinlan.

I'm not sure if it works like that on tour though, if a player is red carded on tour surely the touring party should be punished by losing that player for the suspension. If the lions start getting red cards left and right surely they can't just keep replacing players without losing tour party options!

obviously gats would have drummed into lions squad about discipline on the field and off it with the English players it was a nasty cheap shot and im glad farrell relatively kept his head because he could have retaliated a lot worse . perhaps it was a good reminder for them because Australia will do the same . its part of the game wind up the hot heads

thebluesmancometh wrote:

thomh wrote:People are making way too much of Farrell's retaliation, which was little more than a shove after being punched in the face.

To the OP, yes obviously the Lions can call up a replacement if a player got red carded and subsequently suspended. They can call up whoever they like whenever they like. See Hartley and Quinlan.

I'm not sure if it works like that on tour though, if a player is red carded on tour surely the touring party should be punished by losing that player for the suspension. If the lions start getting red cards left and right surely they can't just keep replacing players without losing tour party options!

A tour is very different from the World Cup. There are no rules in place at all as to whom can be replaced and when. There is no set squad size (as SCW showed) and replacements or additions can be made at any time for any reason, hence why there are still suggestions that Wilkinson may be added to the party. The person being punished is the player.

thomh wrote:

fa0019 wrote:On the margins at best. There was no wrap around. The fact that both men got injured and had to go off from the tackle also suggests it was in a very grey area of the law... and one which a ref could have easily brought out a card for.

There was a clear attempt at a wrap around though.

That doesn't matter. An NZ player (Gear?) got a yellow for a tackle in a Bledisloe test a couple of years back because the bloke he tackled bounced off his chest before he could wrap his arms around.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

thomh wrote:

fa0019 wrote:On the margins at best. There was no wrap around. The fact that both men got injured and had to go off from the tackle also suggests it was in a very grey area of the law... and one which a ref could have easily brought out a card for.

There was a clear attempt at a wrap around though.

That doesn't matter. An NZ player (Gear?) got a yellow for a tackle in a Bledisloe test a couple of years back because the bloke he tackled bounced off his chest before he could wrap his arms around.

But thats a refs poor decision, not the directive!!!

In the lions game I'd say there were 6/7 collisions of which players were hurt or physically shook from either side, no malice in each tackle just a sheer determination to win the physical contest of which the game hadn't seen before IMO, and the BOD tackle was in keeping with the games trend.

flyhalffactory wrote:

beardybrain wrote:If a lions player gets a red, I'm thinking Farrell here, can they call a replacement up? Part of me hopes they can but another part thinks that the punishment should mean no replacement being called in. Anyone know what the rules state?

Has Farrell got a history of been sent off then............ or is there something else you are attempting to suggest?

Farrell is a little petulant but no more than any other young OH IMO. Just like O'Gara in '01 he will be targeted. I have confidence in him that he will be wise to it and just concentrate on his game. I dont see him as a liability. Whereas guys like Hartley actively seek trouble Farrell is just targeted because he is young and playing in such a key position.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

thomh wrote:

fa0019 wrote:On the margins at best. There was no wrap around. The fact that both men got injured and had to go off from the tackle also suggests it was in a very grey area of the law... and one which a ref could have easily brought out a card for.

There was a clear attempt at a wrap around though.

That doesn't matter. An NZ player (Gear?) got a yellow for a tackle in a Bledisloe test a couple of years back because the bloke he tackled bounced off his chest before he could wrap his arms around.

That happened to Hines as well in the French world cup. The guy ran straight into him, bounced off and left hines wrapping round air - yellow card - was a terrible ref decision, but as a Scotsman you get used to those

On the Farrell bashing, I think it is a little unfair to critise him for the retaliation - yes he could have been yellow (and Brits reded), but a lot of players would have reacted the same or worse

It is fair to critisie his play, as he is so off form it is scary - hope he gets him mo-jo back, otherwise Sexton is going to be a tired bunny

LondonTiger wrote:A tour is very different from the World Cup. There are no rules in place at all as to whom can be replaced and when. There is no set squad size (as SCW showed) and replacements or additions can be made at any time for any reason, hence why there are still suggestions that Wilkinson may be added to the party. The person being punished is the player.

There have been some tour protocols in place in the past, however. In 1993, Wade Dooley left the tour following the death of his father. Martin Johnson was flown out as a replacement. The NZRU had given permission for Dooley to return after the funeral but Home Union officials decided to overrule that kind gesture and refused to let him fly back out. They decided that the agreement on tour party size meant Dooley would not be entitled to play.

Farrell is a huge risk because he is a marked man.....not wishing to appear cynical but the fact is if the Super 15 can get a few citings and bans on players prior to Test time - rather like the Boks kicking out knees and the kiwis spear tackling people - then it evens up the injury losses Australia have got come Test time.

Farrell's immature temperament is a huge red flag and if I were Gatland I would ask his Dad to ground him for a few days.

100%beefy wrote:Farrell is a huge risk because he is a marked man.....not wishing to appear cynical but the fact is if the Super 15 can get a few citings and bans on players prior to Test time - rather like the Boks kicking out knees and the kiwis spear tackling people - then it evens up the injury losses Australia have got come Test time.

Farrell's immature temperament is a huge red flag and if I were Gatland I would ask his Dad to ground him for a few days.

So we shouldn't play anyone who gets annoyed from being clouted in the face?

Time to call up the Buddhists.

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:

100%beefy wrote:Farrell is a huge risk because he is a marked man.....not wishing to appear cynical but the fact is if the Super 15 can get a few citings and bans on players prior to Test time - rather like the Boks kicking out knees and the kiwis spear tackling people - then it evens up the injury losses Australia have got come Test time.

Farrell's immature temperament is a huge red flag and if I were Gatland I would ask his Dad to ground him for a few days.

So we shouldn't play anyone who gets annoyed from being clouted in the face?

Time to call up the Buddhists.

yes, lets call up the Myanmar buddhists, real gentle guys wouldn't harm a fly