Match thread

[thebluesmancometh]

First topic message reminder :

No offerings from Force yet, good defencive speed, and working hard though...

[bsando]

Yepp, defence has been pretty shocking. Bloody Foley, why did you not put out a full strength team!?!?!

[Biltong]

O'Driscoll loves those little inside passes, doesn't he?

[t1000advancedprototype]

Who does Tuilagi think he is Jamie Roberts??

Lovely.

[thebluesmancometh]

If you consider how few times the Force are attacking then the Lions need to work on their defences.

Two tries in what three visits to the Lions 22?

Ye but look at how simple this game is, it's hard to up your defence to 100% when your attack is scoring so easily at 50%.

[Artful_Dodger]

Great stuff from Parling immediately after coming onto the pitch. Great interplay by Sexton, Tuilagi and O'Driscoll. Sexton has had a blinder his passing game to bring his backs into the game is sublime.

[Biltong]

If you consider how few times the Force are attacking then the Lions need to work on their defences.

Two tries in what three visits to the Lions 22?

Ye but look at how simple this game is, it's hard to up your defence to 100% when your attack is scoring so easily at 50%.

That may be true, but at the end of the day, you do in match conditions what you train, and defence is about attitude, not seeing it.

[t1000advancedprototype]

Farrell redeemed.

[Guest]

Lots of zip since Youngs came on. Quick ball = disorganised defensive line = gaps and tries!

[SecretFly]

If you consider how few times the Force are attacking then the Lions need to work on their defences.

Two tries in what three visits to the Lions 22?

yeah..very true.

[thebluesmancometh]

Great stuff from Parling immediately after coming onto the pitch. Great interplay by Sexton, Tuilagi and O'Driscoll. Sexton has had a blinder his passing game to bring his backs into the game is sublime.

Sexton has been sublime, but he has had a bit of an armchair today lets be honest.

[thebluesmancometh]

If you consider how few times the Force are attacking then the Lions need to work on their defences.

Two tries in what three visits to the Lions 22?

Ye but look at how simple this game is, it's hard to up your defence to 100% when your attack is scoring so easily at 50%.

That may be true, but at the end of the day, you do in match conditions what you train, and defence is about attitude, not seeing it.

But this starting 15 has only a couple of training sessions under their belts after linking with the squad 2 weeks later, it was always going to be disjointed.

[profitius]

The ref is doing his best to help the Force.

[Biltong]

If you consider how few times the Force are attacking then the Lions need to work on their defences.

Two tries in what three visits to the Lions 22?

Ye but look at how simple this game is, it's hard to up your defence to 100% when your attack is scoring so easily at 50%.

That may be true, but at the end of the day, you do in match conditions what you train, and defence is about attitude, not seeing it.

But this starting 15 has only a couple of training sessions under their belts after linking with the squad 2 weeks later, it was always going to be disjointed.

Accepted, organisation of defence yes, but attitude no.

[t1000advancedprototype]

Gavin Henson still holds the record for conversions.

14/14 vs Japan 2004

Will we ever see Halfpenny close in on that?

[thebluesmancometh]

If you consider how few times the Force are attacking then the Lions need to work on their defences.

Two tries in what three visits to the Lions 22?

Ye but look at how simple this game is, it's hard to up your defence to 100% when your attack is scoring so easily at 50%.

That may be true, but at the end of the day, you do in match conditions what you train, and defence is about attitude, not seeing it.

But this starting 15 has only a couple of training sessions under their belts after linking with the squad 2 weeks later, it was always going to be disjointed.

Accepted, organisation of defence yes, but attitude no.

It's not the attirude though, it's more of a trust issue, you can't go flying into hits when you have the tiniest issue of whether your inside or outside man aren't going to cover.

If you want attitude watch AWJ for the next few minutes, my MOTM by a mile

[bsando]

See ya Alan

[thebluesmancometh]

Well maybe not

There goes his MOTM award, still mine though!

[chargedowntotheface]

no crofty! get your head on the correct side lad!

[bsando]

Well maybe not

There goes his MOTM award, still mine though!

Haha, bad timing by AWJ there. But I agree, he's been very good, totally outplayed Evans who I think was a ghost out there.

[Guest]

See ya Alan

"Alun"! Pronounced Alin!

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

Blues, feel free to add hooking to a long list of things you know nothing about. Well not 'hooking' hooking- it's the 21st century and I'm not here to judge.

As usual you lack basis comprehension- the lineout is not entirely down to Best. That's what I stated. If you want a % of blame I'd say he would be 60% responsible. If he is the one calling them then i's higher because the calling is poor. The timing of the lifting and jumping is also off. It's simple. If you think it's entirely Best's fault then so be it but it would be pretty moronic to suggest it. Hooker is going to be a problem as all three has been patchy at best.

Also AWJ has been perfectly good today. Just not as good as POC and Gray. AWJ also played better against he BaBas of the bench, but he's done fine today. I don't think that is an unreasonable suggestion.

Also please go back to using exclamation marks. I'm worried your button might be broken

[chargedowntotheface]

Vunipola's hands are incredible! think he might be playing himself into a Test jersey!
Parling has looked 10x the player Ian Evans was in the first half. deserved his try. Looking forward to seeing Grey and Parling together at some point

[Cumbrian]

no crofty! get your head on the correct side lad!

Your screen name just made me splutter out my coffee, I know it's childish but I can't help myself!

[tigertattie]

I'm not lucky enough to be able to watch the game today ("working") Is is fair to say that going on the two games so far it's POC and Gray as starting locks with AWJ as the bench option?

[bsando]

Greeedy North

[chargedowntotheface]

no crofty! get your head on the correct side lad!

Your screen name just made me splutter out my coffee, I know it's childish but I can't help myself!

Too many broken noses, Cumbrian. I never learnt to get my arms close enough together when diving at a fly-half's feet.

[thebluesmancometh]

Blues, feel free to add hooking to a long list of things you know nothing about. Well not 'hooking' hooking- it's the 21st century and I'm not here to judge.

As usual you lack basis comprehension- the lineout is not entirely down to Best. That's what I stated. If you want a % of blame I'd say he would be 60% responsible. If he is the one calling them then i's higher because the calling is poor. The timing of the lifting and jumping is also off. It's simple. If you think it's entirely Best's fault then so be it but it would be pretty moronic to suggest it. Hooker is going to be a problem as all three has been patchy at best.

Also AWJ has been perfectly good today. Just not as good as POC and Gray. AWJ also played better against he BaBas of the bench, but he's done fine today. I don't think that is an unreasonable suggestion.

Also please go back to using exclamation marks. I'm worried your button might be broken

Keep trying to look at the subtleties of lineout play from the comfort of your armchair

Best has misread a signal, overthrown twice and thrown early, the calls of the lineout have nothing to do with the succes rate, this isn't U14's rugby, you don't call shorter if you have a weak hooker! The lifting and timing were always going to be disjointed, but you can't claim Best is only half the problem when the lineout fails are becaus eof injury error for the most part!

AWJ has been as good if not better than both Grey and POC today, however they have played different styles of games, and AWJ game lends itself better to test 1 by a country mile than the loose running POC and Grey provided us with

[Notch]

At least one lineout was a dodgy throw from Best, where he missed SOB. The other one I didn't see a replay so I don't know but it was also at the tail. We lost another key attacking lineout but that was because Wyn-Jones failed to control it, the throw was fine.

Couple of jitters for Best in the first half but he sorted it out. I'm more disappointed that Best was quite quiet around the field, I'm not overly worried about the lineout; they were a couple of overthrows in Hong Kong too but as they get more time together those early kinks will be ironed out.

[jimmyinthewell68]

Im listening to Welsh on radio Welshy and reading people on here arguing so i dont know what's happening

[thebluesmancometh]

I'm not lucky enough to be able to watch the game today ("working") Is is fair to say that going on the two games so far it's POC and Gray as starting locks with AWJ as the bench option?

No chance, Grey can't provide the tight needed for the test, AWJ and POC are almost nailed on right now with Parling or Grey on the bench.

[thebluesmancometh]

Who got MOTM? I bet it was Heaslip, SOB or Sexton, all the flashier players.

[Artful_Dodger]

Who got MOTM?

[thebluesmancometh]

At least one lineout was a dodgy throw from Best, where he missed SOB. The other one I didn't see a replay so I don't know but it was also at the tail. We lost another key attacking lineout but that was because Wyn-Jones failed to control it, the throw was fine.

Couple of jitters for Best in the first half but he sorted it out. I'm more disappointed that Best was quite quiet around the field, I'm not overly worried about the lineout; they were a couple of overthrows in Hong Kong too but as they get more time together those early kinks will be ironed out.

Thats why I wouldve chosen Best initially, despite his dodgy darts he was an animal around the park, and he was pretty poor tonight, but then as was Evans, 1/2p, Murray, and was also a bit dissapointed in Cole and Croft

[bsando]

Well that was a pretty rubbish game, thanks mainly to Force putting out a 2nd string team. Cheers Foley, you better beat the Tah's this weekend.

Perth, a city totally dominated by AFL, with a chance to showcase WA rugby decide to put out a 2nd string side, insulting the Lions and annoying the fans. Madness!

[wales606]

Big scoreline masking some big problems

- Too many penalties, the discipline was very poor

- Conceding 2 tries is unacceptable

- The scrum was poor, the Force got more penalties out of it than the Lions

- Several missed lineout throws

- A couple of poor restart takes

- I was disappointed with Ian Evans, Murray and Best


They were some good individual performances

- Vunipola has taken an early march on the no1 shirt

- Croft, SOB and Heaslip (and Faletau off the bench) all showed some good touches, but as a unit, there were some problems - the penalty count and fringe defence was poor and that is a big responsibility of the backrow. I think they lacked a proper 7.

- BOD showed he can offer something different

- Sexton had an excellent game, as did Tommy Bowe

- Some nice touches from the big men, North and Tuilagi

- Halfpenny is the best goal kicker in the world...

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

Oh blues you scallywag. You do realise that 60% is more than 50%? The calling is relevant and it is monstrously inane to suggest otherwise. You seem happy to blame best for everything wrong with the lineout which is idiotic. It's clear it isn't all his fault, but he must take a large share. Nothing unreasonable there.

That's your opinion on AWJ so grand. It's wrong of course but what can you do.

Also more exclamation marks IMHO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[thebluesmancometh]

Big scoreline masking some big problems

- Too many penalties, the discipline was very poor

- Conceding 2 tries is unacceptable

- The scrum was poor, the Force got more penalties out of it than the Lions

- Several missed lineout throws

- A couple of poor restart takes

- I was disappointed with Ian Evans, Murray and Best


They were some good individual performances

- Vunipola has taken an early march on the no1 shirt

- Croft, SOB and Heaslip (and Faletau off the bench) all showed some good touches, but as a unit, there were some problems - the penalty count and fringe defence was poor and that is a big responsibility of the backrow. I think they lacked a proper 7.

- BOD showed he can offer something different

- Sexton had an excellent game, as did Tommy Bowe

- Some nice touches from the big men, North and Tuilagi

- Halfpenny is the best goal kicker in the world...

Worrying thing about that analysis wales, and I agree mostly is that the unit skills are disjointed, including the breakdown, and every good performance mentioned are individuals playing with ball in hand with tons of space, that won't happen v Aus, so SOB, Heaslip, Falatau and Vunipola beating men for fun, making yardage out wide means diddly squat come test time!!!

[Notch]

At least one lineout was a dodgy throw from Best, where he missed SOB. The other one I didn't see a replay so I don't know but it was also at the tail. We lost another key attacking lineout but that was because Wyn-Jones failed to control it, the throw was fine.

Couple of jitters for Best in the first half but he sorted it out. I'm more disappointed that Best was quite quiet around the field, I'm not overly worried about the lineout; they were a couple of overthrows in Hong Kong too but as they get more time together those early kinks will be ironed out.

Thats why I wouldve chosen Best initially, despite his dodgy darts he was an animal around the park, and he was pretty poor tonight, but then as was Evans, 1/2p, Murray, and was also a bit dissapointed in Cole and Croft

I wouldn't be ruling any of them out until we get a second look given that most of the team haven't had that long in camp. Halfpenny was fine though. Don't know what else you would have wanted him to do.

Generally thought that the forwards didn't impose themselves in the loose but they didn't need to, quite low intensity and hard to draw conclusions from. Guys like Best, Cole, Evans, Croft had very little work to do in the tight- hard to shine on a night like that.

[Knowsit17]

I'm not lucky enough to be able to watch the game today ("working") Is is fair to say that going on the two games so far it's POC and Gray as starting locks with AWJ as the bench option?

No chance, Grey can't provide the tight needed for the test, AWJ and POC are almost nailed on right now with Parling or Grey on the bench.

Couldn't disagree more. Nobody is "nailed on" this early in the tour and based on what I've seen so far I'd rather have Gray partnering POC in the first test. AWJ had a game to forget.

[thebluesmancometh]

Oh blues you scallywag. You do realise that 60% is more than 50%? The calling is relevant and it is monstrously inane to suggest otherwise. You seem happy to blame best for everything wrong with the lineout which is idiotic. It's clear it isn't all his fault, but he must take a large share. Nothing unreasonable there.

That's your opinion on AWJ so grand. It's wrong of course but what can you do.

Also more exclamation marks IMHO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh well, we'll disagree, bet AWJ is in come test 1 though, wanna put your money where your mouth is?

[Duty281]

So far so good then. Plenty of bigger tests to come, but the Lions got the comfortable win they wanted against a massively inferior Western Force side. Exemplary kicking by Halfpenny, very impressed by Heaslip and Vunipola as well. Fingers crossed Healy's injury isn't as bad as it first looked.

[thebluesmancometh]

At least one lineout was a dodgy throw from Best, where he missed SOB. The other one I didn't see a replay so I don't know but it was also at the tail. We lost another key attacking lineout but that was because Wyn-Jones failed to control it, the throw was fine.

Couple of jitters for Best in the first half but he sorted it out. I'm more disappointed that Best was quite quiet around the field, I'm not overly worried about the lineout; they were a couple of overthrows in Hong Kong too but as they get more time together those early kinks will be ironed out.

Thats why I wouldve chosen Best initially, despite his dodgy darts he was an animal around the park, and he was pretty poor tonight, but then as was Evans, 1/2p, Murray, and was also a bit dissapointed in Cole and Croft

I wouldn't be ruling any of them out until we get a second look given that most of the team haven't had that long in camp. Halfpenny was fine though. Don't know what else you would have wanted him to do.

Generally thought that the forwards didn't impose themselves in the loose but they didn't need to, quite low intensity and hard to draw conclusions from. Guys like Best, Cole, Evans, Croft had very little work to do in the tight- hard to shine on a night like that.

1/2p couldve beaten the first man in the carry from deep, or at least played someone else in, which is normally his area of strnegth.

And with regards to the loose players in the tight, where were they for the 2 tries? The tight was the forces best weapon, and SOB, Heaslip and Vunipola running 30 yards down the line means squat if they can't defend in the tight.

[Artful_Dodger]

Oh blues you scallywag. You do realise that 60% is more than 50%? The calling is relevant and it is monstrously inane to suggest otherwise. You seem happy to blame best for everything wrong with the lineout which is idiotic. It's clear it isn't all his fault, but he must take a large share. Nothing unreasonable there.

That's your opinion on AWJ so grand. It's wrong of course but what can you do.

Also more exclamation marks IMHO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh well, we'll disagree, bet AWJ is in come test 1 though, wanna put your money where your mouth is?

How could possibly predict the test team after two matches when one of the second rows in the squad has only had 15 minutes game time? You're starting to look silly now. On the performances so far I would have Gray and O'Connell starting. Maybe AWJ will be in the test side but he hasn't done anything to demonstrate that thus far.

[Mad for Chelsea]

my thoughts:

- fringe defense a worry, backrow has to take some responsibility for that, and would expect Lydiate and/or Warburton to make a difference there.

- not massively impressed by Murray, his passing lacked snap. Youngs added quite a bit of dynamism when he came on I thought.

- Sexton brought the backline into play nicely, but it was also nice to see Farrell standing very flat and taking it to the defense. Concerns about FH may be overstated...

- Line-out a concern.

- Tuilagi and O'Driscoll linked up quite nicely at times, particularly for the try. Looks a promising partnership.

- Vunipola very impressive I thought, with Healy looking out of it he's put himself in a very strong position.

- Parling made an impact when he came on, but not sure about second-row combinations yet.

[thebluesmancometh]

Oh blues you scallywag. You do realise that 60% is more than 50%? The calling is relevant and it is monstrously inane to suggest otherwise. You seem happy to blame best for everything wrong with the lineout which is idiotic. It's clear it isn't all his fault, but he must take a large share. Nothing unreasonable there.

That's your opinion on AWJ so grand. It's wrong of course but what can you do.

Also more exclamation marks IMHO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh well, we'll disagree, bet AWJ is in come test 1 though, wanna put your money where your mouth is?

How could possibly predict the test team after two matches when one of the second rows in the squad has only had 15 minutes game time? You're starting to look silly now. On the performances so far I would have Gray and O'Connell starting. Maybe AWJ will be in the test side but he hasn't done anything to demonstrate that thus far.

If I'm that silly shake my hand, POC looked excellent but run out of steam quickly in the conditions, maybe he just hasn't the engine for this type of rugby these days. Grey is always great in the loose, but how loose will Aus play? Evans had a nightmare, and Parling has looked superb in 2 appearances but both late on against teams already beat.

AWJ had a super game there, ok the lineout was disjointed, and he might take some flak for not making Bests life easier, but his work in the tight has been unparalleled by any player in the last 2 games, watch his tackle count, watch his carry count and how many tacklers he commited. No player has been error free, but AWJ is up there with best performers so far.

[Manu's Boxing Coach]

Personally, thought the backs had better shape with Sexton at the helm and there was a bit more subtlety to the attacking play than there was in Hong Kong.
Also I liked how we used Tuilagi as a decoy to put North in behind, really showing the amount of quality strike runners there are in the squad. However there was less dominance and stability at the set piece than previously.

IMO things are shaping up quite nicely...........

[wales606]

Stats are interesting

http://www.espn.co.uk/lions-tour-2013/rugby/match/164079.html

AWJ with a very high tackle count and a fair amount of carries

Cole disappointing in the loose

Sexton only make 2 tackles, Farrell made 7 off the bench - interesting

[GunsGerms]

Stats are interesting

http://www.espn.co.uk/lions-tour-2013/rugby/match/164079.html

AWJ with a very high tackle count and a fair amount of carries

Cole disappointing in the loose

Sexton only make 2 tackles, Farrell made 7 off the bench - interesting

Did Sexton miss any tackles though? That stat means very little really if Western Farce had very little ball when Sexton was on the pitch.

I think AJW was very good.

[boomeranga]

Well that was a pretty rubbish game, thanks mainly to Force putting out a 2nd string team. Cheers Foley, you better beat the Tah's this weekend.

Perth, a city totally dominated by AFL, with a chance to showcase WA rugby decide to put out a 2nd string side, insulting the Lions and annoying the fans. Madness!

Bad luck mate. Considering the side they put out it was a brave effort. Setting aside I'm a NSW fan (we won Origin 1 tonight just quietly), Foley was a f'idiot for prioritising the weekend. I would like to nick Salesi Manu though.

[GunsGerms]

Bizarre decision from the Western Farce to field a 2nd string team when Lions tours come round with less frequency than Halley's Comet. Way to stick two fingers up to the Lions.

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