Post Manny v Mosley discussion

First topic message reminder :

Made me long for the heady days of Hopkins/Calzaghe!!!

Off to bed, no further comment to make on that snore-fest except to say that Mayweather should sign to fight Manny IMMEDIATELY

Wasnt gonna bother with all this but am at a loose end so here is my take on the fight:

We all said it was a poor match-up from the start, mosley looking past it in his 2 fights in 2010 and now being a year older, and so it transpired.

I felt that mosley employed the right gameplan to beat manny - ie stand off him, work off the back foot, defend, make him miss and frustrate him. However mosley no longer has the speed or reflexes at 39 to land the counter shots required to make this gameplan effective. On top of that he was hurt in the 3rd which made him even more conservative. When all was said and done he looked exactly what he is: an old fighter that can no longer pull the trigger.

As for manny; I thought he looked poor - he was flat footed and throwing single shots, missing a lot of his punches and showed no inventiveness to unlcock the problems mosley presented him with. He was also too nice - all the hugging and back-slapping at the weigh in, and in the bout they did as much glove touching as they did fighting. It was mannys poorest performance to my memory.

The fight itself was a stinker, a couple of moments of excitement in what basically looked like a 12 rd sparring session between two pals. The crowd were booing and a number of them walked out before the end of the fight, and I dont blame them.

Finally in relation to mayweather - I think its harsh to judge manny on one poor performance as he has an ATG career and even the best are entitled to an off night. What I will say is that the weaknesses manny showed last night in terms of his lack of adaptability are the very things I have always said will be his undoing against mayweather, who is a more skilful and intelligent fighter. Mayweather will do similar things to mosley - ie work off the back foot, defend, frustrate. The difference is he has the speed, reflexes and accuracy to fire counter shots back down the pipe. I maintain that mayweather is a stylistic nightmare for manny. Roach also knows this - after manny beat cotto in nov '09 and a mayweather fight was proposed for march '10 Roach stated it was too soon and he'd need more time to prepare manny for a style like mayweather. He was quoted yesterday as sying something similar here: http://www.boxingscene.com/roach-mayweather-hardest-style-pacquiao--38930

In summary it was a poor choice of opponent, a negative performance from mosley, a lacklustre performce from pacquiao and a stinker of a fight. Manny shouldnt be judged too harshly on one fight. I remain steadfast in my opinion that mayweather, with his attributes and style would beat manny - and even though it would be a huge event the fight itself probably wouldnt be that great to watch.

I thought Mosley looked seriously dazed when he was lying on the canvas as well. Not sure if it says something about Pacquaio's ability to finish?

BALTIMORA wrote:

rowley wrote:Since moving to welter Manny has had three fights at the weight only one of those finished early and he has scored one knock down in the three fights> Hardly bespeaks an all time great puncher does it

Exactly. Hatton was the last guy he KOd. Cotto was a TKO. Wasn't Cotto also without a proper trainer too for that particular training camp?

Yeah, he was using some novice for the biggest fight of his career. Sacked him straight after as well.

I dont know how anyone could watch that fight 3 times, it was disgustingly bad. Brought back bad memories of DLH and Clottey.

BALTIMORA wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:

King Beer wrote:This may spark it all again but I actually agree with D4. Mosley was still dazed a good minute after the knockdown, his footing had gone and he was trying to run.

Please don't shoot me.

If that is the case then why did the big punching Pac not finish him off?

Because of Mosley's super slick defensive skills. You know; he stepped backwards.

Some of you might have forgot the purspose of boxing match is to win, not just to survive.

Scottrf wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Mosley's word on Pacquiao's power has to be taken with a grain of salt, because he's hardly likely to tell the truth which is "I'm shot".

As predicted, when I said this about Solis everyone said 'Oh no, you should listen to the boxer, they've been in the ring with both men.' Knew Mosley saying it about Pacquiao would be discredited though.

D4 is far from the only one using double standards.

You do realise I don't 100% believe that, right? Point is one person in particular on here will contradict himself until blue in the face, so I don't see why everyone shouldn't join in. When someone will choose to believe that Pacquiao had leg cramps but not to believe that Mayweather suffered an injury against Castillo, it's massively, MASSIVELY hypocritical of them unless they can support their silliness with reliable evidence.

Excellent post SBS.

Pretty much sums it up for me.

My 2 pence worth,

I dont think we can honestly take too much away from pacquiao in last nights fight, altho i dont feel manny gave it his 100% he wasn't too far off. imo its because we are so used to seeing him fight guys who dont have the best movement and he lands a high percentage of his combinations, i think the focus point would have to go to mosley for his evaisive style which manny doesn't have his destructive effectiveness against.

To conclude it wasn't very entertaining, but i dont think manny can be critisised too much, we just have to realise his punching success is not so high against fighters with good movement but that is boxing, you cant expect a war everytime.

BALTIMORA wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Mosley's word on Pacquiao's power has to be taken with a grain of salt, because he's hardly likely to tell the truth which is "I'm shot".

As predicted, when I said this about Solis everyone said 'Oh no, you should listen to the boxer, they've been in the ring with both men.' Knew Mosley saying it about Pacquiao would be discredited though.

D4 is far from the only one using double standards.

You do realise I don't 100% believe that, right? Point is one person in particular on here will contradict himself until blue in the face, so I don't see why everyone shouldn't join in. When someone will choose to believe that Pacquiao had leg cramps but not to believe that Mayweather suffered an injury against Castillo, it's massively, MASSIVELY hypocritical of them unless they can support their silliness with reliable evidence.

Oh OK I'll treat your posts with a pinch of salt then.

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:Finally in relation to mayweather - I think its harsh to judge manny on one poor performance as he has an ATG career and even the best are entitled to an off night. What I will say is that the weaknesses manny showed last night in terms of his lack of adaptability are the very things I have always said will be his undoing against mayweather, who is a more skilful and intelligent fighter. Mayweather will do similar things to mosley - ie work off the back foot, defend, frustrate. The difference is he has the speed, reflexes and accuracy to fire counter shots back down the pipe. I maintain that mayweather is a stylistic nightmare for manny. Roach also knows this - after manny beat cotto in nov '09 and a mayweather fight was proposed for march '10 Roach stated it was too soon and he'd need more time to prepare manny for a style like mayweather. He was quoted yesterday as sying something similar here: http://www.boxingscene.com/roach-mayweather-hardest-style-pacquiao--38930

In summary it was a poor choice of opponent, a negative performance from mosley, a lacklustre performce from pacquiao and a stinker of a fight. Manny shouldnt be judged too harshly on one fight. I remain steadfast in my opinion that mayweather, with his attributes and style would beat manny - and even though it would be a huge event the fight itself probably wouldnt be that great to watch.

Good summary SBS...but don't you think that picking a fighter that you said yourself would use a similar style to Mayweather that they are potentially beginning the process of preparation? What better way to prepare for it than testing his ability against that type of tactic, albeit a slightly slower version?

D4thincarnation wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:

King Beer wrote:This may spark it all again but I actually agree with D4. Mosley was still dazed a good minute after the knockdown, his footing had gone and he was trying to run.

Please don't shoot me.

If that is the case then why did the big punching Pac not finish him off?

Because of Mosley's super slick defensive skills. You know; he stepped backwards.

Some of you might have forgot the purspose of boxing match is to win, not just to survive.

Floyd has a 0 so he must be a boxing professor.

azania wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:

King Beer wrote:This may spark it all again but I actually agree with D4. Mosley was still dazed a good minute after the knockdown, his footing had gone and he was trying to run.

Please don't shoot me.

If that is the case then why did the big punching Pac not finish him off?

Because of Mosley's super slick defensive skills. You know; he stepped backwards.

Some of you might have forgot the purspose of boxing match is to win, not just to survive.

Floyd has a 0 so he must be a boxing professor.

Well exactly. If an opponent isn't trying to win then they shouldn't be in there. Clottey and Mosley have shown this.

Besides which, D4: a boxer can't win if he's knocked out, can he? Sorted out your sticky hands yet? You must be exhausted after watching the fight three times.

You must be exhausted after watching the fight three times.
=========
I think i'd rather watch the Emmerdale omnibus.

David Tails wrote:

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:Finally in relation to mayweather - I think its harsh to judge manny on one poor performance as he has an ATG career and even the best are entitled to an off night. What I will say is that the weaknesses manny showed last night in terms of his lack of adaptability are the very things I have always said will be his undoing against mayweather, who is a more skilful and intelligent fighter. Mayweather will do similar things to mosley - ie work off the back foot, defend, frustrate. The difference is he has the speed, reflexes and accuracy to fire counter shots back down the pipe. I maintain that mayweather is a stylistic nightmare for manny. Roach also knows this - after manny beat cotto in nov '09 and a mayweather fight was proposed for march '10 Roach stated it was too soon and he'd need more time to prepare manny for a style like mayweather. He was quoted yesterday as sying something similar here: http://www.boxingscene.com/roach-mayweather-hardest-style-pacquiao--38930

In summary it was a poor choice of opponent, a negative performance from mosley, a lacklustre performce from pacquiao and a stinker of a fight. Manny shouldnt be judged too harshly on one fight. I remain steadfast in my opinion that mayweather, with his attributes and style would beat manny - and even though it would be a huge event the fight itself probably wouldnt be that great to watch.

Good summary SBS...but don't you think that picking a fighter that you said yourself would use a similar style to Mayweather that they are potentially beginning the process of preparation? What better way to prepare for it than testing his ability against that type of tactic, albeit a slightly slower version?

Hi David. That wouldnt have been the reason they picked mosley as they wouldnt have been expecting him to use those tactics - his usual style is to come forward and fight, he's an aggressive boxer puncher by trade. On Fight 360 they showed mosleys team watching the marquez fights and I think they devised a gameplan around the counter-punching tactics marquez used so successfully against manny, however mosley wasnt able to employ it effectively because a) its not really his style and b) he no longer has the speed or reflexes.

The up-shot is that mosley employed 50% of a gameplan ie being defensive, going on the back-foot and frustrating manny without complimenting it with the counter punches required to make it effective. But what it did show is that manny struggles to be effective against this kind of style much more than guys that come toward him - something many of us have noted before. Of course the key issue here is that mayweather fights on the back foot brilliantly, is an expert defensively but unlike the mosley of last night can throw the shots back to make his style effective, which is why I've always felt he has the beating of manny.

Mosley wasnt chosen as a pre-cursor to mayweather as they wouldnt have expected him to attempt to utilise that kind of style, but I am starting to suspect the manny v floyd fight will now happen (assuming floyd doesnt go to jail) - especially if floyd opts to fight Victor Ortiz. Choosing to have a tune up against a strong, aggressive southpaw would be a strong indicator of floyd preparing for manny IMO.

Cheers.

Mosley Clottey were scared of Pacquiao's immense power. They have both said they have never felt anything like it before.

Cotto ran as well Oscar sat down and decided retirement ain't so bad after all.

It was compassion that saved Marg and Hatton had his lights put out.

I think it clear that Pacquiao is the biggest punching welter since Hearns.

Lumbering_Jack wrote:You must be exhausted after watching the fight three times.
=========
I think i'd rather watch the Emmerdale omnibus.

I'd rather watch one of Manny's 'concerts'.

D4thincarnation wrote:Mosley Clottey were scared of Pacquiao's immense power. They have both said they have never felt anything like it before.

Cotto ran as well Oscar sat down and decided retirement ain't so bad after all.

It was compassion that saved Marg and Hatton had his lights put out.

I think it clear that Pacquiao is the biggest punching welter since Hearns.

His knockout record at the weight would suggest otherwise

Mosley got rid of Margarito but Pacquiao didn't, whats the excuse for that?

D4thincarnation wrote:Mosley Clottey were scared of Pacquiao's immense power. They have both said they have never felt anything like it before.

Cotto ran as well Oscar sat down and decided retirement ain't so bad after all.

It was compassion that saved Marg and Hatton had his lights put out.

I think it clear that Pacquiao is the biggest punching welter since Hearns.

How many of those were KOd?

How many were dropped?

He couldn't even drop an emaciated Oscar.

Margarito defended with his face, but never went down.

Oscar quit because he knew HE couldn't pull the trigger.

D4thincarnation wrote:Mosley Clottey were scared of Pacquiao's immense power. They have both said they have never felt anything like it before.

Cotto ran as well Oscar sat down and decided retirement ain't so bad after all.

It was compassion that saved Marg and Hatton had his lights put out.

I think it clear that Pacquiao is the biggest punching welter since Hearns.

Yep, of course he is. DLH has said Manny doesn't hit hard if we are quoting boxers...

THe fact is that Manny unloaded everything he has on Marg and couldn't budge him, whereas SSM ko'd him. Cotto was stopped on his feet (for no real reason), Clottey was never in any trouble so to call him the biggest punching WW is laughable.

In the last 10 years who has been a bigger puncher at welter than Pacquiao?

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:

David Tails wrote:

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:Finally in relation to mayweather - I think its harsh to judge manny on one poor performance as he has an ATG career and even the best are entitled to an off night. What I will say is that the weaknesses manny showed last night in terms of his lack of adaptability are the very things I have always said will be his undoing against mayweather, who is a more skilful and intelligent fighter. Mayweather will do similar things to mosley - ie work off the back foot, defend, frustrate. The difference is he has the speed, reflexes and accuracy to fire counter shots back down the pipe. I maintain that mayweather is a stylistic nightmare for manny. Roach also knows this - after manny beat cotto in nov '09 and a mayweather fight was proposed for march '10 Roach stated it was too soon and he'd need more time to prepare manny for a style like mayweather. He was quoted yesterday as sying something similar here: http://www.boxingscene.com/roach-mayweather-hardest-style-pacquiao--38930

In summary it was a poor choice of opponent, a negative performance from mosley, a lacklustre performce from pacquiao and a stinker of a fight. Manny shouldnt be judged too harshly on one fight. I remain steadfast in my opinion that mayweather, with his attributes and style would beat manny - and even though it would be a huge event the fight itself probably wouldnt be that great to watch.

Good summary SBS...but don't you think that picking a fighter that you said yourself would use a similar style to Mayweather that they are potentially beginning the process of preparation? What better way to prepare for it than testing his ability against that type of tactic, albeit a slightly slower version?

Hi David. That wouldnt have been the reason they picked mosley as they wouldnt have been expecting him to use those tactics - his usual style is to come forward and fight, he's an aggressive boxer puncher by trade. On Fight 360 they showed mosleys team watching the marquez fights and I think they devised a gameplan around the counter-punching tactics marquez used so successfully against manny, however mosley wasnt able to employ it effectively because a) its not really his style and b) he no longer has the speed or reflexes.

The up-shot is that mosley employed 50% of a gameplan ie being defensive, going on the back-foot and frustrating manny without complimenting it with the counter punches required to make it effective. But what it did show is that manny struggles to be effective against this kind of style much more than guys that come toward him - something many of us have noted before. Of course the key issue here is that mayweather fights on the back foot brilliantly, is an expert defensively but unlike the mosley of last night can throw the shots back to make his style effective, which is why I've always felt he has the beating of manny.

Mosley wasnt chosen as a pre-cursor to mayweather as they wouldnt have expected him to attempt to utilise that kind of style, but I am starting to suspect the manny v floyd fight will now happen (assuming floyd doesnt go to jail) - especially if floyd opts to fight Victor Ortiz. Choosing to have a tune up against a strong, aggressive southpaw would be a strong indicator of floyd preparing for manny IMO.

Cheers.

Once again...great response. You can tell I'm not a massive boxing fan, so it's good to get this kind of knowledge in retort to my question.

Cheers SBS.

Forrest, Mosley, Mayorga for starters are bigger punchers at Welteweight than Pacquiao, before them De La Hoya, Brown, Lopez and Trinidad were also

D4thincarnation wrote:In the last 10 years who has been a bigger puncher at welter than Pacquiao?

would have to say shane mosely, he put marg down, pac couldn't, even after landing nearly everythinghe threw.

hope that helps

D4thincarnation wrote:In the last 10 years who has been a bigger puncher at welter than Pacquiao?

How many people has Manny ko'd at Welter.

Zero.

D4thincarnation wrote:In the last 10 years who has been a bigger puncher at welter than Pacquiao?

Take your pick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8Y-Fk4ZsDI

Just look at the power.

D4thincarnation wrote:Mosley Clottey were scared of Pacquiao's immense power. They have both said they have never felt anything like it before.

Cotto ran as well Oscar sat down and decided retirement ain't so bad after all.

It was compassion that saved Marg and Hatton had his lights put out.

I think it clear that Pacquiao is the biggest punching welter since Hearns.

Post of the century so far. Keep em comimg D4.

Who's he knocked out at Welterweight or above then?

None of De La Hoya, Cotto, Margarito, Clottey and Mosley were knocked out by him, hardly the sign of a huge puncher is it

D4thincarnation wrote:In the last 10 years who has been a bigger puncher at welter than Pacquiao?

Floyd.

Disappointing, I don't know whether Jim Watt was right that Manny couldn't work out how to catch Mosley, or he genuinely had leg cramps, or he just thought he was doing well. I think he was a little concerned of the power of Mosley considering it was the only way he could win, however I would have loved to have seen him put a little more of a show on. But I was SO disappointed in Mosley, came to win? Pfft, yeah right, I thought first couple of rounds WELL DONE, seriously, I thought he did amazingly well, and nullified which is what I thought the tactics should have been at the start you don't want to get overawed by the speed straight away. Then he did get caught in the 3rd, and full credit for getting up took a few more punches and survived, 4th was all about survival and showing he can continue which he did perfectly well. 5th and 6th he had to get through but give Manny more to think about but the most disappointing thing was 10th 11th 12th I was literally stood up screaming at the TV LET THE RIGHT HAND GO! LET IT GO! All he had to do was at leats give it a go, I don't understand why not give it everything!? "Going out on your shield" what use is it if you SURVIVE the fight without ever trying to win it, in my opinion a bit of a wimps way out...

AlexHuckerby wrote:Disappointing, I don't know whether Jim Watt was right that Manny couldn't work out how to catch Mosley, or he genuinely had leg cramps, or he just thought he was doing well. I think he was a little concerned of the power of Mosley considering it was the only way he could win, however I would have loved to have seen him put a little more of a show on. But I was SO disappointed in Mosley, came to win? Pfft, yeah right, I thought first couple of rounds WELL DONE, seriously, I thought he did amazingly well, and nullified which is what I thought the tactics should have been at the start you don't want to get overawed by the speed straight away. Then he did get caught in the 3rd, and full credit for getting up took a few more punches and survived, 4th was all about survival and showing he can continue which he did perfectly well. 5th and 6th he had to get through but give Manny more to think about but the most disappointing thing was 10th 11th 12th I was literally stood up screaming at the TV LET THE RIGHT HAND GO! LET IT GO! All he had to do was at leats give it a go, I don't understand why not give it everything!? "Going out on your shield" what use is it if you SURVIVE the fight without ever trying to win it, in my opinion a bit of a wimps way out...

I said earlier; if we'd seen a fight like Morales-Maidana the other week, everyone would be singing Mosley's praises.

AlexHuckerby wrote:Disappointing, I don't know whether Jim Watt was right that Manny couldn't work out how to catch Mosley, or he genuinely had leg cramps, or he just thought he was doing well. I think he was a little concerned of the power of Mosley considering it was the only way he could win, however I would have loved to have seen him put a little more of a show on. But I was SO disappointed in Mosley, came to win? Pfft, yeah right, I thought first couple of rounds WELL DONE, seriously, I thought he did amazingly well, and nullified which is what I thought the tactics should have been at the start you don't want to get overawed by the speed straight away. Then he did get caught in the 3rd, and full credit for getting up took a few more punches and survived, 4th was all about survival and showing he can continue which he did perfectly well. 5th and 6th he had to get through but give Manny more to think about but the most disappointing thing was 10th 11th 12th I was literally stood up screaming at the TV LET THE RIGHT HAND GO! LET IT GO! All he had to do was at leats give it a go, I don't understand why not give it everything!? "Going out on your shield" what use is it if you SURVIVE the fight without ever trying to win it, in my opinion a bit of a wimps way out...

Yeah you would have though in the 12th when he had nothing to lose he could of went for it. Mosley says he didn't want to risk it because he might have been Koed. Doesn't put boxing in a good light.

It might have been more fitting if Manny came out to "Mama said Knock you out" and Shane came out to "Survivor"

BALTIMORA wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:Disappointing, I don't know whether Jim Watt was right that Manny couldn't work out how to catch Mosley, or he genuinely had leg cramps, or he just thought he was doing well. I think he was a little concerned of the power of Mosley considering it was the only way he could win, however I would have loved to have seen him put a little more of a show on. But I was SO disappointed in Mosley, came to win? Pfft, yeah right, I thought first couple of rounds WELL DONE, seriously, I thought he did amazingly well, and nullified which is what I thought the tactics should have been at the start you don't want to get overawed by the speed straight away. Then he did get caught in the 3rd, and full credit for getting up took a few more punches and survived, 4th was all about survival and showing he can continue which he did perfectly well. 5th and 6th he had to get through but give Manny more to think about but the most disappointing thing was 10th 11th 12th I was literally stood up screaming at the TV LET THE RIGHT HAND GO! LET IT GO! All he had to do was at leats give it a go, I don't understand why not give it everything!? "Going out on your shield" what use is it if you SURVIVE the fight without ever trying to win it, in my opinion a bit of a wimps way out...

I said earlier; if we'd seen a fight like Morales-Maidana the other week, everyone would be singing Mosley's praises.

Yeah I reckon Mosley would have probably been KO'ed if he'd tried but I give far more respect to fighters such as Ricky Hatton, yeah got destroyed but came there to fight and win, Mosley never let anything go... Sad...

D4thincarnation wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:Disappointing, I don't know whether Jim Watt was right that Manny couldn't work out how to catch Mosley, or he genuinely had leg cramps, or he just thought he was doing well. I think he was a little concerned of the power of Mosley considering it was the only way he could win, however I would have loved to have seen him put a little more of a show on. But I was SO disappointed in Mosley, came to win? Pfft, yeah right, I thought first couple of rounds WELL DONE, seriously, I thought he did amazingly well, and nullified which is what I thought the tactics should have been at the start you don't want to get overawed by the speed straight away. Then he did get caught in the 3rd, and full credit for getting up took a few more punches and survived, 4th was all about survival and showing he can continue which he did perfectly well. 5th and 6th he had to get through but give Manny more to think about but the most disappointing thing was 10th 11th 12th I was literally stood up screaming at the TV LET THE RIGHT HAND GO! LET IT GO! All he had to do was at leats give it a go, I don't understand why not give it everything!? "Going out on your shield" what use is it if you SURVIVE the fight without ever trying to win it, in my opinion a bit of a wimps way out...

Yeah you would have though in the 12th when he had nothing to lose he could of went for it. Mosley says he didn't want to risk it because he might have been Koed. Doesn't put boxing in a good light.

It might have been more fitting if Manny came out to "Mama said Knock you out" and Shane came out to "Survivor"

That was pretty clever

So who beats Pac now at welter or below since Floyd doesnt fight.
Forrest,Moseley, Mayorga,De la Hoya Trinidad bigger punchers than Pac.Care to evidence that?
He put Shane down fair and square not many done that.
Tell me who punches harder at welter then in the last 30 years. Tommy Hearns and Ray leonard excepted.They are naturally bigger guys i would add.

skidd1 wrote:So who beats Pac now at welter or below since Floyd doesnt fight.
Forrest,Moseley, Mayorga,De la Hoya Trinidad bigger punchers than Pac.Care to evidence that?
He put Shane down fair and square not many done that.
Tell me who punches harder at welter then in the last 30 years. Tommy Hearns and Ray leonard excepted.They are naturally bigger guys i would add.

The fact they knocked opponents out at the weight something Pacquiao has yet to do

Manny has never really come close to stopping someone at the weight.

To label him the biggest puncher since Hearns is laughable.

Shane landed 31 power punches in total in that fight, which is pretty dreadful.

Pacquiaos KO % at welterweight: 50%. (33% if you discount Cotto which was at a catchweight. Oscar wasn't KO'D, he quit on his stool. Cotto was 90 seconds from seeing the 12 rounds out when bayliss made a pointlessly late intervention). He's a decent puncher at WW with the speed to causeflash knock downs, but to say he's the biggest puncher at 147 since Hearns is a joke, Tito, Oscar, Mosley, Forrest were all bigger punchers.

RE: Manny being an ATG puncher:

Pacquiao: 38 ko's from 58 fights = 65% KO ratio
Mayweather: 25 ko's from 41 fights = 61% KO ratio

I notice this point was carefully avoided. Is 4% the difference between a non puncher and an ATG puncher?

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:Pacquiaos KO % at welterweight: 50%. (33% if you discount Cotto which was at a catchweight. Oscar wasn't KO'D, he quit on his stool. Cotto was 90 seconds from seeing the 12 rounds out when bayliss made a pointlessly late intervention). He's a decent puncher at WW with the speed to causeflash knock downs, but to say he's the biggest puncher at 147 since Hearns is a joke, Tito, Oscar, Mosley, Forrest were all bigger punchers.

RE: Manny being an ATG puncher:

Pacquiao: 38 ko's from 58 fights = 65% KO ratio
Mayweather: 25 ko's from 41 fights = 61% KO ratio

I notice this point was carefully avoided. Is 4% the difference between a non puncher and an ATG puncher?

Look at the type of opponents Manny has put down, some of them have never been stopped or been put down before or since they faced Manny.

Mayweather Has had 1 KO in the past 6 years.

Shane only threw 5 combos in 12 rounds, he should be ashamed of that.

Manny seems to put the fear of god into some fighters

Clottey was never floored but floored by Cotto
Margarito was never floored but stopped by Mosley
Cotto was stopped by Margarito previously
Mosley was an old man who had been dropped heavier by Forrest
De La Hoya was dropped by Quartey but not Pacquiao

You were saying D4?

Curry was a bigger puncher, Breland was a bigger puncher in the last 30 years.............

This thread is like watching an election campaign......Some guy spins everything and the opposing party skirts around the facts as well........

Fact is Manny is a top 25 atg and Mosley was finished before Floyd and certainly before Manny......end of...

I pick Floyd to beat Manny but I wouldn't bet my house on it..

Just move on boys..

D4thincarnation wrote:

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:Pacquiaos KO % at welterweight: 50%. (33% if you discount Cotto which was at a catchweight. Oscar wasn't KO'D, he quit on his stool. Cotto was 90 seconds from seeing the 12 rounds out when bayliss made a pointlessly late intervention). He's a decent puncher at WW with the speed to causeflash knock downs, but to say he's the biggest puncher at 147 since Hearns is a joke, Tito, Oscar, Mosley, Forrest were all bigger punchers.

RE: Manny being an ATG puncher:

Pacquiao: 38 ko's from 58 fights = 65% KO ratio
Mayweather: 25 ko's from 41 fights = 61% KO ratio

I notice this point was carefully avoided. Is 4% the difference between a non puncher and an ATG puncher?

Look at the type of opponents Manny has put down, some of them have never been stopped or been put down before or since they faced Manny.

Mayweather Has had 1 KO in the past 6 years.

People are not trying to proclaim Floyd is a big puncher.

Cotto has been put down by Marg, DLH didnt go down, Clottey was never budged, Hatton had been down before, Mosely had been down before...

Where are these fighters who he has blitzed who have never been ko'd before?

D4thincarnation wrote:Shane only threw 5 combos in 12 rounds, he should be ashamed of that.

Manny seems to put the fear of god into some fighters

I think my 48 year old dad would also be scared...

Hate to be pednatic but in discussions of Manny's power at welter can people stop making reference to the Cotto fight. He did not fight Cotto at welterweight so the fight is of zero relevance to that particular discussion. Would also add Quartey carries more dig at welter than Manny to those already mentioned.

Shane Mosley reminded me of Holmes against Spinks......Can see the openings but being too old and slow the opening shifted before he could engage his tired limbs...

Think he went in there to win..saw he didn't have it and went for a damage limitation exercise...

He was certainly to blame for the stinker although Manny did look ordinary at times...

Unfortunately I think Shane is a Holyfield character and is probably weighing up another fight....think he needs the limelight.

Shame..

D4thincarnation wrote:

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:Pacquiaos KO % at welterweight: 50%. (33% if you discount Cotto which was at a catchweight. Oscar wasn't KO'D, he quit on his stool. Cotto was 90 seconds from seeing the 12 rounds out when bayliss made a pointlessly late intervention). He's a decent puncher at WW with the speed to causeflash knock downs, but to say he's the biggest puncher at 147 since Hearns is a joke, Tito, Oscar, Mosley, Forrest were all bigger punchers.

RE: Manny being an ATG puncher:

Pacquiao: 38 ko's from 58 fights = 65% KO ratio
Mayweather: 25 ko's from 41 fights = 61% KO ratio

I notice this point was carefully avoided. Is 4% the difference between a non puncher and an ATG puncher?

Look at the type of opponents Manny has put down, some of them have never been stopped or been put down before or since they faced Manny.

Mayweather Has had 1 KO in the past 6 years.

The stats speak for themselves D4, just a 4% difference, not much really between a man you say isn't a puncher and a man you claim is an ATG puncher and the biggest punching welter since hearns. You're quite happy to quote stats when they suit you, well here they are - completely and utterly irrefutable.

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:Pacquiaos KO % at welterweight: 50%. (33% if you discount Cotto which was at a catchweight. Oscar wasn't KO'D, he quit on his stool. Cotto was 90 seconds from seeing the 12 rounds out when bayliss made a pointlessly late intervention). He's a decent puncher at WW with the speed to causeflash knock downs, but to say he's the biggest puncher at 147 since Hearns is a joke, Tito, Oscar, Mosley, Forrest were all bigger punchers.

RE: Manny being an ATG puncher:

Pacquiao: 38 ko's from 58 fights = 65% KO ratio
Mayweather: 25 ko's from 41 fights = 61% KO ratio

I notice this point was carefully avoided. Is 4% the difference between a non puncher and an ATG puncher?

Look at the type of opponents Manny has put down, some of them have never been stopped or been put down before or since they faced Manny.

Mayweather Has had 1 KO in the past 6 years.

The stats speak for themselves D4, just a 4% difference, not much really between a man you say isn't a puncher and a man you claim is an ATG puncher and the biggest punching welter since hearns. You're quite happy to quote stats when they suit you, well here they are - completely and utterly irrefutable.

No they don't or do you think Brunson is the biggest puncher of all time. The opposition is the most important thing.

Enjoy your hiatus Sweetie????

You honestly think providing facts to this guy is of any use...

D4thincarnation wrote:

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:Pacquiaos KO % at welterweight: 50%. (33% if you discount Cotto which was at a catchweight. Oscar wasn't KO'D, he quit on his stool. Cotto was 90 seconds from seeing the 12 rounds out when bayliss made a pointlessly late intervention). He's a decent puncher at WW with the speed to causeflash knock downs, but to say he's the biggest puncher at 147 since Hearns is a joke, Tito, Oscar, Mosley, Forrest were all bigger punchers.

RE: Manny being an ATG puncher:

Pacquiao: 38 ko's from 58 fights = 65% KO ratio
Mayweather: 25 ko's from 41 fights = 61% KO ratio

I notice this point was carefully avoided. Is 4% the difference between a non puncher and an ATG puncher?

Look at the type of opponents Manny has put down, some of them have never been stopped or been put down before or since they faced Manny.

Mayweather Has had 1 KO in the past 6 years.

The stats speak for themselves D4, just a 4% difference, not much really between a man you say isn't a puncher and a man you claim is an ATG puncher and the biggest punching welter since hearns. You're quite happy to quote stats when they suit you, well here they are - completely and utterly irrefutable.

No they don't or do you think Brunson is the biggest puncher of all time. The opposition is the most important thing.

Floyd isn't a big puncher and doesn't claim to be. Neither is Manny though he is an accumulative puncher.