Post Manny v Mosley discussion

First topic message reminder :

Made me long for the heady days of Hopkins/Calzaghe!!!

Off to bed, no further comment to make on that snore-fest except to say that Mayweather should sign to fight Manny IMMEDIATELY

D4thincarnation wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You're getting boring now Mate...

Can have to much of a good thing!

I went out with a girl who idolised Madonna...Whether we discussed Mt Everest, the national debt or bananas from the West Indies she always managed to find a way of getting madge into the conversation..

It can wear thin..

You do realised this topic is about Pacquiao vs Mosley fight and not about Mt Everest, the national debt or bananas, don't you.

Hats off, D4. That was damned good.

D4thincarnation wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You're getting boring now Mate...

Can have to much of a good thing!

I went out with a girl who idolised Madonna...Whether we discussed Mt Everest, the national debt or bananas from the West Indies she always managed to find a way of getting madge into the conversation..

It can wear thin..

You do realised this topic is about Pacquiao vs Mosley fight and not about Mt Everest, the national debt or bananas, don't you.

Was this his toughest test D4, or does that honour still belong to 'knackers yard' marg?

Did he mention cramp inbetween rounds? And i find it very, very bizarre that he'd be suffering from cramp so early on in a fight. Was he fatigued? Was his diet low in various things that he would have been stuffed full of (sodium and potassium from memory)? Was he low on fluids? Low on salt?

The resounding answer is NO

Just full of rubbish excuses! He was found wanting for a plan B. End of.

joeyjojo618 wrote:Was this his toughest test D4, or does that honour still belong to 'knackers yard' marg?

Toughest fight, yes, Marg was most definitely the toughest. Pacquiao was not marked, not hurt, and had plenty of energy left against Mosley. After Marg he was in terrible pain and was found in bed in the fetal position and had to be taken to the doctor.

Manny looked like he was going to break down and cry when being interviewed in the ring after the fight.

The truth is, as Azania said, he has no plan B. Manny and Roach have been lucky with the styles that he has encountered over the last few years.

Hatton - No movement, no defence
Clottey - No movement, human punchbag
Margarito - Same as above

It is worth noting that when Cotto went on the back foot and used the jab, Manny couldn't quite figure out how to respond. Only for Cotto trying to attack, it led him to a serious beating. Hence Manny had only one gameplan to attack when attacked.

Against Mosley at the weekend it was interesting to see that when a fighter doesn't play into Manny's hands, he is lost.

Even more interesting is that comparing this fight to the Khan v McCloskey fight, the styles and results for the Roach fighters were almost identical. Manny and Khan both looking woeful against a their opponants, only winning rounds by throwing punches randomly as they had no idea how to break their men down.

I hope Freddie "1 Plan" takes note of this because there is 2 good reputations at stake here.

coxy0001 wrote:Did he mention cramp inbetween rounds? And i find it very, very bizarre that he'd be suffering from cramp so early on in a fight. Was he fatigued? Was his diet low in various things that he would have been stuffed full of (sodium and potassium from memory)? Was he low on fluids? Low on salt?

The resounding answer is NO

Just full of rubbish excuses! He was found wanting for a plan B. End of.

He did coxy, and it is not cramp, it is an long existing injury that flared up again. Watch the fight and looks how he can't pivot on the left or put much weight on it.

Toughest test...

What was Morales and Marquez 1 then.....

10-1-1 reasons why you need to reconsider your last statement...

D4thincarnation wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:Did he mention cramp inbetween rounds? And i find it very, very bizarre that he'd be suffering from cramp so early on in a fight. Was he fatigued? Was his diet low in various things that he would have been stuffed full of (sodium and potassium from memory)? Was he low on fluids? Low on salt?

The resounding answer is NO

Just full of rubbish excuses! He was found wanting for a plan B. End of.

He did coxy, and it is not cramp, it is an long existing injury that flared up again. Watch the fight and looks how he can't pivot on the left or put much weight on it.

http://mannypacquiao.boxingfans.org/uncategorized/cramps-prevent-pacquiao-from-scoring-ko/

Cramping.

coxy0001 wrote:Did he mention cramp inbetween rounds? And i find it very, very bizarre that he'd be suffering from cramp so early on in a fight. Was he fatigued? Was his diet low in various things that he would have been stuffed full of (sodium and potassium from memory)? Was he low on fluids? Low on salt?

The resounding answer is NO

Just full of rubbish excuses! He was found wanting for a plan B. End of.

Did you not see him hopping around at one point?

As you would say to D4 you don't know any of that stuff. Where's your evidence?

D4thincarnation wrote:

joeyjojo618 wrote:Was this his toughest test D4, or does that honour still belong to 'knackers yard' marg?

Toughest fight, yes, Marg was most definitely the toughest. Pacquiao was not marked, not hurt, and had plenty of energy left against Mosley. After Marg he was in terrible pain and was found in bed in the fetal position and had to be taken to the doctor.

Such bad pain...

Did Buboy make him better?

talkingpickle wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:Did he mention cramp inbetween rounds? And i find it very, very bizarre that he'd be suffering from cramp so early on in a fight. Was he fatigued? Was his diet low in various things that he would have been stuffed full of (sodium and potassium from memory)? Was he low on fluids? Low on salt?

The resounding answer is NO

Just full of rubbish excuses! He was found wanting for a plan B. End of.

He did coxy, and it is not cramp, it is an long existing injury that flared up again. Watch the fight and looks how he can't pivot on the left or put much weight on it.

http://mannypacquiao.boxingfans.org/uncategorized/cramps-prevent-pacquiao-from-scoring-ko/

Cramping.

Thanks for the details.

D4thincarnation wrote:

talkingpickle wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:Did he mention cramp inbetween rounds? And i find it very, very bizarre that he'd be suffering from cramp so early on in a fight. Was he fatigued? Was his diet low in various things that he would have been stuffed full of (sodium and potassium from memory)? Was he low on fluids? Low on salt?

The resounding answer is NO

Just full of rubbish excuses! He was found wanting for a plan B. End of.

He did coxy, and it is not cramp, it is an long existing injury that flared up again. Watch the fight and looks how he can't pivot on the left or put much weight on it.

http://mannypacquiao.boxingfans.org/uncategorized/cramps-prevent-pacquiao-from-scoring-ko/

Cramping.

Thanks for the details.

No probs.

Scottrf wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:Did he mention cramp inbetween rounds? And i find it very, very bizarre that he'd be suffering from cramp so early on in a fight. Was he fatigued? Was his diet low in various things that he would have been stuffed full of (sodium and potassium from memory)? Was he low on fluids? Low on salt?

The resounding answer is NO

Just full of rubbish excuses! He was found wanting for a plan B. End of.

Did you not see him hopping around at one point?

As you would say to D4 you don't know any of that stuff. Where's your evidence?

If you think it's cramp then go for it.

I don't buy it, mainly because we have a hydration and diet plan before cricket to avoid just that. And we're not even pro's with all the backroom staff Manny has. And yet we are able to go a full days worth of cricket played in the heat without cramping.

He came out and said cramp, but i think it's horse**** based on the simple fact that he wouldn't have been under hydrated and be low on any of the above i listed. It doesn't add up. It's just an excuse. Many other boxers have had worse things to come through, Williams fighting on with his shoulder badly dislocated comes to mind.

So in summary my evidence is that a top level athlete doesn't cramp up after 9 minutes of action such is the minute details their backroom staff to go into regarding diet and hydration.

Guess it's strange being American on a British site really.

Kind of find it amazing how people go round in circles and have the same arguments day after day with a guy who's one and sole intent is to wind people up.....

Still the site is an improvement on the BBC one...

I'd rather talk about the national debt and Madge...certainly be more constructive..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JRalwvIz_oo

Watch Pacquiao left leg, he is not able to put much weight on it?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Guess it's strange being American on a British site really.

Kind of find it amazing how people go round in circles and have the same arguments day after day with a guy who's one and sole intent is to wind people up.....

Still the site is an improvement on the BBC one...

I'd rather talk about the national debt and Madge...certainly be more constructive..

Put up an article I might comment on it

coxy0001 wrote:If you think it's cramp then go for it.

I don't buy it, mainly because we have a hydration and diet plan before cricket to avoid just that. And we're not even pro's with all the backroom staff Manny has. And yet we are able to go a full days worth of cricket played in the heat without cramping.

He came out and said cramp, but i think it's horse**** based on the simple fact that he wouldn't have been under hydrated and be low on any of the above i listed. It doesn't add up. It's just an excuse. Many other boxers have had worse things to come through, Williams fighting on with his shoulder badly dislocated comes to mind.

So in summary my evidence is that a top level athlete doesn't cramp up after 9 minutes of action such is the minute details their backroom staff to go into regarding diet and hydration.

I’m not sure but it would explain some strange movements he was making.

Footballers get cramp fairly often and have very good nutrition.

If I was you I would comment that you didn't actually answer my questions and keep calling you a ducker.

D4thincarnation wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Guess it's strange being American on a British site really.

Kind of find it amazing how people go round in circles and have the same arguments day after day with a guy who's one and sole intent is to wind people up.....

Still the site is an improvement on the BBC one...

I'd rather talk about the national debt and Madge...certainly be more constructive..

Put up an article I might comment on it

I can imagine your suggestions.... Just print off more money...

I admire you in a way..You're certainly more intelligent than the guys you argue with...

I think anything other than a Manny/Floyd article might be out of your comfort zone so I'll not hold my breath

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hLsy7XeMl20

Again look at how he keeps raising the left not being able to plant it.

The injury was legit, and that type of injury would have hindered him in closing of the ring, which he would have had to do to stop the running man.

D4thincarnation wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hLsy7XeMl20

Again look at how he keeps raising the left not being able to plant it.

The injury was legit, and that type of injury would have hindered him in closing of the ring, which he would have had to do to stop the running man.

It's funny, I dont remember you saying this stuff before. It's only after Team Vulture make a statement that you start agreeing.

D4thincarnation wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JRalwvIz_oo

Watch Pacquiao left leg, he is not able to put much weight on it?

Moving ok to me. Wasn't grimacing as he was planting it.

Excuses excuses excuses

You don't cramp up after 9 minutes of action.

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hLsy7XeMl20

Again look at how he keeps raising the left not being able to plant it.

The injury was legit, and that type of injury would have hindered him in closing of the ring, which he would have had to do to stop the running man.

It's funny, I dont remember you saying this stuff before. It's only after Team Vulture make a statement that you start agreeing.

I was unware of the injury before the fight. But I did notice in the fight his movement which is the best in the world was not all there, especially the lateral movement.

Sky cut to the breaks so you couldn't see what was going on in the corner, but Manny was telling Roach about his leg as early as the 4th.

Reversing my arguement:

If he 'was' limited to moving then why didn't he employ a different gameplan? Why didn't he beckon Mosley in whilst on the ropes or something? Why didn't he play hurt? Why didn't he really make the injury obvious to Mosley to say "i can't move, please don't hit me"

It's because he hasn't got a brain inside the ring and if plan a of "swing swing swing" doesn't work then he hasn't got a scooby doo.

D4's already implied that Roach lied about it being Manny's 'best training camp EVER'. Why should anyone believe anything that comes out of that camp. If only this topic could be debated without one person constantly WUMing and ducking then everyone would be much happier.

You don't cramp up after 9 minutes of action.........

Really??

Funny how people moan at D4 for making statements he can't back up..

physician heal thyself...

You're all as bad as eachother.

coxy0001 wrote:Reversing my arguement:

If he 'was' limited to moving then why didn't he employ a different gameplan? Why didn't he beckon Mosley in whilst on the ropes or something? Why didn't he play hurt? Why didn't he really make the injury obvious to Mosley to say "i can't move, please don't hit me"

It's because he hasn't got a brain inside the ring and if plan a of "swing swing swing" doesn't work then he hasn't got a scooby doo.

Because against the usual array of Top Rank stiffs a 'plan A' as usually all that's needed, and Pacquiao and Roach simply didn't have a plan b. Simple.

Yeah each side is as bad as the other, it’s definitely not possible to debate sensibly on the topic here.

coxy0001 wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JRalwvIz_oo

Watch Pacquiao left leg, he is not able to put much weight on it?

Moving ok to me. Wasn't grimacing as he was planting it.

Excuses excuses excuses

You don't cramp up after 9 minutes of action.

You sure you know your left from right, he had to hop in his right leg a more than a few times in a fight, did you miss that as well.

Scottrf wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:If you think it's cramp then go for it.

I don't buy it, mainly because we have a hydration and diet plan before cricket to avoid just that. And we're not even pro's with all the backroom staff Manny has. And yet we are able to go a full days worth of cricket played in the heat without cramping.

He came out and said cramp, but i think it's horse**** based on the simple fact that he wouldn't have been under hydrated and be low on any of the above i listed. It doesn't add up. It's just an excuse. Many other boxers have had worse things to come through, Williams fighting on with his shoulder badly dislocated comes to mind.

So in summary my evidence is that a top level athlete doesn't cramp up after 9 minutes of action such is the minute details their backroom staff to go into regarding diet and hydration.

I’m not sure but it would explain some strange movements he was making.

Footballers get cramp fairly often and have very good nutrition.

If I was you I would comment that you didn't actually answer my questions and keep calling you a ducker.

Scott, all i've seen you say is "what's your evidence" and i backed up my claim

Please in all honesty feel free to tell me which footballer has cramped up after 9 minutes? And also provide me the questions which you wish me to answer. Because no top level athlete cramps after 9 minutes of hardly high octane and intense action. I've got millions of examples of athletes not cramping after that time, what have you got?

And it still goes back to my earlier point:

Reversing my arguement:

If he 'was' limited to moving then why didn't he employ a different gameplan? Why didn't he beckon Mosley in whilst on the ropes or something? Why didn't he play hurt? Why didn't he really make the injury obvious to Mosley to say "i can't move, please don't hit me"

It's because he hasn't got a brain inside the ring and if plan a of "swing swing swing" doesn't work then he hasn't got a scooby doo.

If he was struggling (which i doubt, just another "i was wearing the wrong socks" excuse) then why not change tactic to make Mosley come to him?!

coxy0001 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:If you think it's cramp then go for it.

I don't buy it, mainly because we have a hydration and diet plan before cricket to avoid just that. And we're not even pro's with all the backroom staff Manny has. And yet we are able to go a full days worth of cricket played in the heat without cramping.

He came out and said cramp, but i think it's horse**** based on the simple fact that he wouldn't have been under hydrated and be low on any of the above i listed. It doesn't add up. It's just an excuse. Many other boxers have had worse things to come through, Williams fighting on with his shoulder badly dislocated comes to mind.

So in summary my evidence is that a top level athlete doesn't cramp up after 9 minutes of action such is the minute details their backroom staff to go into regarding diet and hydration.

I’m not sure but it would explain some strange movements he was making.

Footballers get cramp fairly often and have very good nutrition.

If I was you I would comment that you didn't actually answer my questions and keep calling you a ducker.

Scott, all i've seen you say is "what's your evidence" and i backed up my claim

Please in all honesty feel free to tell me which footballer has cramped up after 9 minutes? And also provide me the questions which you wish me to answer. Because no top level athlete cramps after 9 minutes of hardly high octane and intense action. I've got millions of examples of athletes not cramping after that time, what have you got?

I asked you if you saw him hopping.

None of that would constitute evidence if D4 gave it. You would say that it's circumstantial at best.

The evidence I asked for is how you know he had enough salt? How you know he didn't overtrain etc.

Ed moses got cramp in a 400m hurdle race years ago as did another 400m runner in the Olympics who still managed to finish fourth and qualify for the semi-finals...

Every case is different...

You haven't backed anything up..

Truss

A 400m runner is putting their body at the limit. 9 minutes of hardly high octane action (with BREAKS inbetween) pretty much makes your example redundant.

And Scott, if any top level athlete comes in under hydrated or low on salt/sodium etc then i'd suggest they sack their nutrionist straight away. I've never struggled with cramp having played cricket, football or rugby and i'm an amateur in comparions (and that includes extra times in football and 3 day games of cricket)

coxy0001 wrote:Truss

A 400m runner is putting their body at the limit. 9 minutes of hardly high octane action (with BREAKS inbetween) pretty much makes your example redundant.

And Scott, if any top level athlete comes in under hydrated or low on salt/sodium etc then i'd suggest they sack their nutrionist straight away. I've never struggled with cramp having played cricket, football or rugby and i'm an amateur in comparions (and that includes extra times in football and 3 day games of cricket)

De La Hoya has no excuse for his Pacquiao fight then

It happens, and every person and circumstance is different. You don't know he didn't any more than I know he did, but it explains some of his behaviour in the fight.

I asked you if you saw him hopping.

Shaking off a bit of tightness maybe?

Still comes back to IF the muscle was a bit tight why didn't he employ a different gameplan? As i've mentioned above?

At the end of the day Mosley showed his nouse and used his brain to back off from Manny, and made him look abit silly at times. Manny didn't use his brain and found it hard to hit someone who could actually move their head out of the way with the remaining reactions the 40 year old had left.

People get cramp reading in bed......about the only activity I've had in bed for about 6 months.......

The body can be dehydrated without you knowing it.....

You're a bright lad Coxy but you're backing the wrong horse..

De La Hoya has no excuse for his Pacquiao fight then

Apart from he fought at a weight he hadn't fought at since 2001.

Must've helped him massively!

Is true, but at the end of the day it's one performance and he shut the other guy out. Most boxers has a style they don't look good against, he came away with the W.

People get cramp reading in bed

Fat, unfit people do yes.

Another unsubstantiated claim...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Ed moses got cramp in a 400m hurdle race years ago as did another 400m runner in the Olympics who still managed to finish fourth and qualify for the semi-finals...

Every case is different...

You haven't backed anything up..

That was Burt Cameron of Jamaica in the 1983 World Championships in Helsinki. He didn't have cramp either but a small tear in his hamstrings. I know it because he is a friend of mine.

Also you can get cramp ay any time if you sweat too much and dont take enough fluids. Red wine stops cramps also. I remember I went on a cycling trip to France and Italy. Cramping up like crazy some french bloke told me to take re wine. Didn't cramp again. Made ctcling a bit more fun also as I filled my water bottle with wine.

Another unsubstantiated claim...

When mates have said they cramp in bed they're usually the ones who think of Macdo as a balanced meal

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Another unsubstantiated claim...

Eating bananas can help to prevent cramping, but their prices are as high as Mt Everest at the moment.

http://www.fruitnet.com/content.aspx?cid=9902

Red wine stops cramps also

What about white? Not a fan of red... too heavy for me personally (although i do enjoy a nice glass of rioja occasionally)

It's like conversing with Fightnews...

coxy0001 wrote:

Red wine stops cramps also

What about white? Not a fan of red... too heavy for me personally (although i do enjoy a nice glass of rioja occasionally)

Dunno. I cant stand the stuff. Its more like grape juice.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It's like conversing with Fightnews...

Apart from i'm not on the wum

Fair enough cramp in the championship rounds, but not after 9 minutes of action that was hardly high octane stuff and considering the levels of hydration he was at etc. I dont buy it personally

My father-in-law has a wine cellar..when we go round there..thankfully not too often in my case...He breaks open an old burgundy or something..

Fact is I couldn't tell you the difference between a £4 bottle or a £400 one...

I'll drink anything. When I get the chance.