Post Manny v Mosley discussion

First topic message reminder :

Made me long for the heady days of Hopkins/Calzaghe!!!

Off to bed, no further comment to make on that snore-fest except to say that Mayweather should sign to fight Manny IMMEDIATELY

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:My father-in-law has a wine cellar..when we go round there..thankfully not too often in my case...He breaks open an old burgundy or something..

Fact is I couldn't tell you the difference between a £4 bottle or a £400 one...

I'll drink anything. When I get the chance.

Same here. I'm no wine buff. If it has alcohol I'll drink it. Just dont like the taste of white wine.

coxy0001 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It's like conversing with Fightnews...

Apart from i'm not on the wum

Fair enough cramp in the championship rounds, but not after 9 minutes of action that was hardly high octane stuff and considering the levels of hydration he was at etc. I dont buy it personally

I tend to agree with you. Cramping up after 9 minutes is a lie imo. He would have been properly hydrated with all manner of saline drinks. His legs and shoulders would have been massaged to allow maximum blood flow and maybe one of his nut-huggers would have done a sly yank on him.

Cramping he was not, unless his team are amateurs. Judging at the level many hold Ariza, I doubt the amateur label will stick.

Mate, Bodies aren't machines!! If they were you would either equal or improve on your bench or squat workout everytime you were at the gym...

Bodies break down..sometimes even when you think you are at 100% you are not...

I've had days where I've felt like s""t and ended up getting my best benchpress and vice versa.....

azania wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:My father-in-law has a wine cellar..when we go round there..thankfully not too often in my case...He breaks open an old burgundy or something..

Fact is I couldn't tell you the difference between a £4 bottle or a £400 one...

I'll drink anything. When I get the chance.

Same here. I'm no wine buff. If it has alcohol I'll drink it. Just dont like the taste of white wine.

If i gave you a £3 bottle of wine and a vintage Chateaux neuf du Pape you'd have to be minus a tongue to avoid telling the difference...

Maybe... but not all expensive wine tastes great.....

As I've discovered..

Impossible for any of us to really know but have to admit I am cynical about the whole cramping issue. We were told Manny had the perfect camp and also worth remembering he does not have to squeeze down to make welter in any way shape or form. Seems highly unusual a guy would have such a camp and then cramp after three rounds of fairly pedestrian paced action.

As I say none of us will really know but does seem to be par for the course unfortunately that there is always a litany of excuses the minute a fighter turns in a below par excuses.

coxy0001 wrote:

azania wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:My father-in-law has a wine cellar..when we go round there..thankfully not too often in my case...He breaks open an old burgundy or something..

Fact is I couldn't tell you the difference between a £4 bottle or a £400 one...

I'll drink anything. When I get the chance.

Same here. I'm no wine buff. If it has alcohol I'll drink it. Just dont like the taste of white wine.

If i gave you a £3 bottle of wine and a vintage Chateaux neuf du Pape you'd have to be minus a tongue to avoid telling the difference...

I'm sure you love a good whine coxy

coxy0001 wrote:

azania wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:My father-in-law has a wine cellar..when we go round there..thankfully not too often in my case...He breaks open an old burgundy or something..

Fact is I couldn't tell you the difference between a £4 bottle or a £400 one...

I'll drink anything. When I get the chance.

Same here. I'm no wine buff. If it has alcohol I'll drink it. Just dont like the taste of white wine.

If i gave you a £3 bottle of wine and a vintage Chateaux neuf du Pape you'd have to be minus a tongue to avoid telling the difference...

Afraid i wouldn't have a clue either Coxy, all tastes like Vinegar to me.

Would this be more fitting if this was being talked about in "pub" section.

D4thincarnation wrote:Would this be more fitting if this was being talked about in "pub" section.

Of course not, mate.

We talk about boxing there.

The Galveston Giant wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:

azania wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:My father-in-law has a wine cellar..when we go round there..thankfully not too often in my case...He breaks open an old burgundy or something..

Fact is I couldn't tell you the difference between a £4 bottle or a £400 one...

I'll drink anything. When I get the chance.

Same here. I'm no wine buff. If it has alcohol I'll drink it. Just dont like the taste of white wine.

If i gave you a £3 bottle of wine and a vintage Chateaux neuf du Pape you'd have to be minus a tongue to avoid telling the difference...

Afraid i wouldn't have a clue either Coxy, all tastes like Vinegar to me.

You would know if it was buckfast you were drinking. Tastes like cough syrup.

coxy0001 wrote:

azania wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:My father-in-law has a wine cellar..when we go round there..thankfully not too often in my case...He breaks open an old burgundy or something..

Fact is I couldn't tell you the difference between a £4 bottle or a £400 one...

I'll drink anything. When I get the chance.

Same here. I'm no wine buff. If it has alcohol I'll drink it. Just dont like the taste of white wine.

If i gave you a £3 bottle of wine and a vintage Chateaux neuf du Pape you'd have to be minus a tongue to avoid telling the difference...

Plonk and chateuax de ef'n expensive all tastes the same to me mate.

Gents,

There is a pub thread for that kind of chat.

Cheers,

KB

We call them bars.......Anyway we don't discuss Boxing at the Blue Oyster..

As someone who has had occasion to drink decent wine as recently as in the last couple of weeks you can definitely tell the difference, and when my uncoath Yorkshiremans taste buds which have been ravaged by years of cigarettes and Guinness can tell the difference am pretty sure the rest of you will manage.

Never had you down as a smoker Rowley...

You're still welcome at the Blue oyster though.

Funnily enough Truss, have just stopped. Two weeks now, not really too worried about the health thing but they cost a fortune. Do miss them though, few things in life I love more than smoking

few things in life I love more than smoking
************************************************************
Would have thought breathing in and out without assistance would have been high on that list

With the risk of annoying the admins - I recommend a Riesling Kabernet - waitrose for a 10er(dr loosen). Bargain if you're trying to impress.

Riesling is enough to annoy anybody...

A nice dry sauvignon blanc preferably from New Zealand..

that's the ticket

Being from Glasgow I would need to recommend our favourite wine Buckfast usually £6-£7 a bottle.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Riesling is enough to annoy anybody...

A nice dry sauvignon blanc preferably from New Zealand..

that's the ticket

New Zealand! Truss - you're an educated man. If you have to drink a sauvignon blanc (and why would you) it has to come from the Loire, surely...

rowley wrote:Impossible for any of us to really know but have to admit I am cynical about the whole cramping issue. We were told Manny had the perfect camp and also worth remembering he does not have to squeeze down to make welter in any way shape or form. Seems highly unusual a guy would have such a camp and then cramp after three rounds of fairly pedestrian paced action.

As I say none of us will really know but does seem to be par for the course unfortunately that there is always a litany of excuses the minute a fighter turns in a below par excuses.

~ Why sir, I am quite cynical that anyone on this forum knows boxing from baking given the level in ineptitude on this thread.

Any well conditioned recreational or competitive athlete knows there are times when he is "on" and times where he is "off" even in a simple workout, a major reason for many upsets in the historical record. That Mr. Manny pitched a shutout in a poorly officiated fight in spite of not being at his best is the mark of an exceptional fighter, or it used to be before the Barney generation matured.

Seems you pick and choose your cynicism sir, accepting the cut and paste comments about training camp while ignoring the obvious in ring symptoms of cramping, a nightmare when one is started out of a deep sleep in the throes of a cramp from hell.

And what do fighters do when they have headaches, eh? Try some light sparring with a headache so the soft beeb 606ers who have landed here conducting a wine seminar can bleat out some Willy Wonka gob smack about your form.

Makes me want to start a Hello Kitty thread to better bond with these ferocious keyboard warriors who know everything in their little sandboxes....................NOT!

Perfessor Albertus Lion V wrote:~ Why sir, I am quite cynical that anyone on this forum knows boxing from baking given the level in ineptitude on this thread.

Well, you didn't say anything I haven't already said, just made it more of a chore to read.

Makes me want to start a Hello Kitty thread to better bond with these ferocious keyboard warriors who know everything in their little sandboxes....................NOT!
_________________________________________________________

Anything that saves the rest of us from enduring your London lite affectations works for me

Scottrf wrote:

Perfessor Albertus Lion V wrote:~ Why sir, I am quite cynical that anyone on this forum knows boxing from baking given the level in ineptitude on this thread.

Well, you didn't say anything I haven't already said, just made it more of a chore to read.

LMAO!

I agree with both of you actually.

No way that this was anything other than a lackluster performance from Manny. It could well have been an off night - and he never looked quite "all there". Actually - the car crash could have affected him. I wouldn't want to be in an accident 6hrs pre a judo comp. It would shake me up.

What the hell was going on with Freddie Roach - the guy looked almost in tears at the start and then hardly said a word. That's a better question.

oxring wrote:What the hell was going on with Freddie Roach - the guy looked almost in tears at the start and then hardly said a word. That's a better question.

Yeah he didn't seem to have the level of input he normally does, definitely something going on there. Pacquiao definitely has the power in the relationship (turns up to train when he likes etc), wonder if something more has happened behind the scenes.

That affected way of writing got old about the second time you did it Albertus, just so you know.

Scottrf wrote:

oxring wrote:What the hell was going on with Freddie Roach - the guy looked almost in tears at the start and then hardly said a word. That's a better question.

Yeah he didn't seem to have the level of input he normally does, definitely something going on there. Pacquiao definitely has the power in the relationship (turns up to train when he likes etc), wonder if something more has happened behind the scenes.

Bottom line for me - Manny loses Roach - Manny loses.

Great fighter - but they work great as a team.

Fighters are never the most perspicacious. I hope that he has the insight to realise that Koncz, Arum and the hangers on are just that - hangers on. There for the paydays not for his benefit.

Arum would flog Manny until he's dead. Manny has been getting most of the flak for Mosley - but it should all be aimed at Arum. This was Arum's experiment and Arum's fight and Arum's mess.

oxring wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

oxring wrote:What the hell was going on with Freddie Roach - the guy looked almost in tears at the start and then hardly said a word. That's a better question.

Yeah he didn't seem to have the level of input he normally does, definitely something going on there. Pacquiao definitely has the power in the relationship (turns up to train when he likes etc), wonder if something more has happened behind the scenes.

Bottom line for me - Manny loses Roach - Manny loses.

Great fighter - but they work great as a team.

Fighters are never the most perspicacious. I hope that he has the insight to realise that Koncz, Arum and the hangers on are just that - hangers on. There for the paydays not for his benefit.

Arum would flog Manny until he's dead. Manny has been getting most of the flak for Mosley - but it should all be aimed at Arum. This was Arum's experiment and Arum's fight and Arum's mess.

If Manny loses Roach, he retires from boxing.

Roach has said if he ever see Manny slipping in training or not taking in seriously enough, he will tell him to hang em up.

All I can say is I hope so D4. Manny's been built up so much he can't lose anymore. And everytime he wins - he has to win big. Its become stupid.

http://www.boxingscene.com/pacquiao-what-i-if-he-want-fight--38987

"I'll tell you the truth, I was expecting that he would fight with me at least five rounds of the 12 rounds, to fight toe-to-toe with me so that we could test our power and our stamina, you know. But what am I going to do if my opponent does not want to fight toe-to-toe?" said Pacquiao, who had applauded Mosley during what had been a promotion that was free of trash talk.

"It's not my fault, that's part of the game," said Pacquiao. "Of course I was happy that I won the fight, but like I said, my first concern is that I want the people to be satisfied. I want to make the fans happy. That's my first concern."

It seems strange Pacquiao is taking all the flak when Mosley was the one not interested in fighting.

What else could Pacquiao have done to get Shane to fight?

joeyjojo618 wrote:That affected way of writing got old about the second time you did it Albertus, just so you know.

~ Hello Kitty!

I say, could you give a hearty welcome to Barney for me?

Regards,

Perfessor Albertus Emeritus Lion V

Changed his gameplan rather than stick to plan A

The Mighty Atom wrote:Changed his gameplan rather than stick to plan A

Why? Plan A was winning him the fight, in spite of the fact that it was a poor spectacle. Plan B carried the risk he might have been knocked out.

I was more concerned that his pace couldn't hold for more than 1 minute a round. That was a touch worrisome for Manny-fans.

oxring wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Changed his gameplan rather than stick to plan A

Why? Plan A was winning him the fight, in spite of the fact that it was a poor spectacle. Plan B carried the risk he might have been knocked out.

I was more concerned that his pace couldn't hold for more than 1 minute a round. That was a touch worrisome for Manny-fans.

What if; and it's a big if, Mosley had actually gone on the attack, what would Manny of done? I personally don't think he would've knocked Shane out.

oxring wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Changed his gameplan rather than stick to plan A

Why? Plan A was winning him the fight, in spite of the fact that it was a poor spectacle. Plan B carried the risk he might have been knocked out.

I was more concerned that his pace couldn't hold for more than 1 minute a round. That was a touch worrisome for Manny-fans.

Boxing is a business but it is also entertainment. If it is not primarily the latter then what is the point? I have no issue with Manny having an off night, but it is his selection of opponent was a very poor one in Mosely. He deserves all the bad press coming his way. If he had chosen to fight a young hungry fighter (like Berto) and it turned out to be a stinker then fair enough, he was challenging the best.

Manny needs to take his share of the blame for this. He cant play the "Arum picks my fights" card all the time.

oxring wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

oxring wrote:What the hell was going on with Freddie Roach - the guy looked almost in tears at the start and then hardly said a word. That's a better question.

Yeah he didn't seem to have the level of input he normally does, definitely something going on there. Pacquiao definitely has the power in the relationship (turns up to train when he likes etc), wonder if something more has happened behind the scenes.

Bottom line for me - Manny loses Roach - Manny loses.

Great fighter - but they work great as a team.

Fighters are never the most perspicacious. I hope that he has the insight to realise that Koncz, Arum and the hangers on are just that - hangers on. There for the paydays not for his benefit.

Arum would flog Manny until he's dead. Manny has been getting most of the flak for Mosley - but it should all be aimed at Arum. This was Arum's experiment and Arum's fight and Arum's mess.

I don't agree entirely that Arum should get ALL the blame. Pacquiao has the choice to agree or disagree with Arum's choice of opponent. Are we to believe that Pacquiao, despite being the p4p #1 and biggest current draw in boxing, has ZERO say in who his opponents will be?

What PPV numbers did this fight do?

I actually agree with D4 a bit.

Mosely has to cop most of the flack. It was a very poor display and I really question if at any point either in training or during the fight he felt he could really win. It struck me that he was just being a salesman and wanted to get his payday without shipping too much damage.

Pacquiao was in second gear and coasting so when you are easily winning against an opponent who is just there to last then it can be difficult to raise your level. He won just as convincingly as Mayweather did without any risk so all you can say really was that Mosely just didnt test him. It strikes me that Pacquiao is the kind of fighter who responds to his opponent and being tested brings out the best of him as a fighter, as opposed to say Mayweather who can put on a masterclass. I dont know if Pacquiao really has the killer instinct now to finish an opponent who is clearly outmatched and he prefers just to coast. When his opponent is aggressive it brings out the best in him and you see a much different fighter.

The whole pally, touching gloves thing bugs me alot. Especially when the action is poor because it makes it look like an exhibition. I dont think its adviseable and personally I wonder if you can really box at your best when you are concerned with touching gloves and all that sort of carry on.

Pacquaio won the fight in second gear against an opponent that didnt show up.

King Beer wrote:

oxring wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Changed his gameplan rather than stick to plan A

Why? Plan A was winning him the fight, in spite of the fact that it was a poor spectacle. Plan B carried the risk he might have been knocked out.

I was more concerned that his pace couldn't hold for more than 1 minute a round. That was a touch worrisome for Manny-fans.

What if; and it's a big if, Mosley had actually gone on the attack, what would Manny of done? I personally don't think he would've knocked Shane out.

Shane would have gone. Big statement - but the only times Shane tentatively tried an attack - and Manny fired back with a couple of quick hands - Shane got back on the bike, started the engine and disappeared off around the ring. If Shane had gone on the attack - and stayed on the attack - he'd have been caught with something. He didn't enjoy the KD.

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

oxring wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Changed his gameplan rather than stick to plan A

Why? Plan A was winning him the fight, in spite of the fact that it was a poor spectacle. Plan B carried the risk he might have been knocked out.

I was more concerned that his pace couldn't hold for more than 1 minute a round. That was a touch worrisome for Manny-fans.

Boxing is a business but it is also entertainment. If it is not primarily the latter then what is the point? I have no issue with Manny having an off night, but it is his selection of opponent was a very poor one in Mosely. He deserves all the bad press coming his way. If he had chosen to fight a young hungry fighter (like Berto) and it turned out to be a stinker then fair enough, he was challenging the best.

Manny needs to take his share of the blame for this. He cant play the "Arum picks my fights" card all the time.

Well - he doesn't really pick his fighters does he? Its Koncz and Arum flogging their cash cow. Sure, he could say no - but why would you? Big payday against a former great and those 2 can whisper enough poison to tell him its legacy enhancing - and I think he'd believe it.

Berto would have been a much much better option. Top Rank didn't take it because it wouldn't have sold as much - bottom line. Which isn't ideal really.

oxring wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

oxring wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Changed his gameplan rather than stick to plan A

Why? Plan A was winning him the fight, in spite of the fact that it was a poor spectacle. Plan B carried the risk he might have been knocked out.

I was more concerned that his pace couldn't hold for more than 1 minute a round. That was a touch worrisome for Manny-fans.

Boxing is a business but it is also entertainment. If it is not primarily the latter then what is the point? I have no issue with Manny having an off night, but it is his selection of opponent was a very poor one in Mosely. He deserves all the bad press coming his way. If he had chosen to fight a young hungry fighter (like Berto) and it turned out to be a stinker then fair enough, he was challenging the best.

Manny needs to take his share of the blame for this. He cant play the "Arum picks my fights" card all the time.

Well - he doesn't really pick his fighters does he? Its Koncz and Arum flogging their cash cow. Sure, he could say no - but why would you? Big payday against a former great and those 2 can whisper enough poison to tell him its legacy enhancing - and I think he'd believe it.

Berto would have been a much much better option. Top Rank didn't take it because it wouldn't have sold as much - bottom line. Which isn't ideal really.

Fair enough, but I genuinely think Manny does not like taking risks. He may have all his opponents picked, but he said no quick enough when asked for blood testing. Manny is his own man.

BALTIMORA wrote:

oxring wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

oxring wrote:What the hell was going on with Freddie Roach - the guy looked almost in tears at the start and then hardly said a word. That's a better question.

Yeah he didn't seem to have the level of input he normally does, definitely something going on there. Pacquiao definitely has the power in the relationship (turns up to train when he likes etc), wonder if something more has happened behind the scenes.

Bottom line for me - Manny loses Roach - Manny loses.

Great fighter - but they work great as a team.

Fighters are never the most perspicacious. I hope that he has the insight to realise that Koncz, Arum and the hangers on are just that - hangers on. There for the paydays not for his benefit.

Arum would flog Manny until he's dead. Manny has been getting most of the flak for Mosley - but it should all be aimed at Arum. This was Arum's experiment and Arum's fight and Arum's mess.

I don't agree entirely that Arum should get ALL the blame. Pacquiao has the choice to agree or disagree with Arum's choice of opponent. Are we to believe that Pacquiao, despite being the p4p #1 and biggest current draw in boxing, has ZERO say in who his opponents will be?

Agreed, a bit of both, but big pressure (and probably financial incentive) from Arum in who he fights.

manos de piedra wrote:The whole pally, touching gloves thing bugs me alot. Especially when the action is poor because it makes it look like an exhibition. I dont think its adviseable and personally I wonder if you can really box at your best when you are concerned with touching gloves and all that sort of carry on.

Especially after the KD. Your focus then should be on getting the other guy out of there.

Scottrf wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:The whole pally, touching gloves thing bugs me alot. Especially when the action is poor because it makes it look like an exhibition. I dont think its adviseable and personally I wonder if you can really box at your best when you are concerned with touching gloves and all that sort of carry on.

Especially after the KD. Your focus then should be on getting the other guy out of there.

Why was Mosley touching gloves and then appearing to talk trash to Manny?

King Beer wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:The whole pally, touching gloves thing bugs me alot. Especially when the action is poor because it makes it look like an exhibition. I dont think its adviseable and personally I wonder if you can really box at your best when you are concerned with touching gloves and all that sort of carry on.

Especially after the KD. Your focus then should be on getting the other guy out of there.

Why was Mosley touching gloves and then appearing to talk trash to Manny?

The glove touching was pathetic it had the feeling of a sparring match about it. When was the trash talking?

King Beer wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:The whole pally, touching gloves thing bugs me alot. Especially when the action is poor because it makes it look like an exhibition. I dont think its adviseable and personally I wonder if you can really box at your best when you are concerned with touching gloves and all that sort of carry on.

Especially after the KD. Your focus then should be on getting the other guy out of there.

Why was Mosley touching gloves and then appearing to talk trash to Manny?

Dont think so, he was probably trying to be nice, realised his age and that he had no fight in him.

When Mosely kept trying to touch Floyd he eventually got a smack in the mouth, Manny needed to do the same. Total nonsense, it is a fight.

prettyboykev wrote:

King Beer wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:The whole pally, touching gloves thing bugs me alot. Especially when the action is poor because it makes it look like an exhibition. I dont think its adviseable and personally I wonder if you can really box at your best when you are concerned with touching gloves and all that sort of carry on.

Especially after the KD. Your focus then should be on getting the other guy out of there.

Why was Mosley touching gloves and then appearing to talk trash to Manny?

The glove touching was pathetic it had the feeling of a sparring match about it. When was the trash talking?

If you wath the fight there's a few instances where Mosley starts talking at Manny, i can only assume it was trash talk.

King Beer wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:

King Beer wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:The whole pally, touching gloves thing bugs me alot. Especially when the action is poor because it makes it look like an exhibition. I dont think its adviseable and personally I wonder if you can really box at your best when you are concerned with touching gloves and all that sort of carry on.

Especially after the KD. Your focus then should be on getting the other guy out of there.

Why was Mosley touching gloves and then appearing to talk trash to Manny?

The glove touching was pathetic it had the feeling of a sparring match about it. When was the trash talking?

If you wath the fight there's a few instances where Mosley starts talking at Manny, i can only assume it was trash talk.

I believe, ( if my lip reading skills are up to scratch, ) that they were discussing D4, KB.