Gethin Jenkins out the Lions tour

The buzz on twitter is that Gethin Jenkins has been ruled out of the Lions tour.

Haven't been able to confirm this rumour, but Gatland was obviously concerned about Gethin when he sent for Grant as cover.

Wish Jenkins well. He toured well in 2009 and was a strong favourite for the tests this year.

Story on BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/22825064

Despite me saying from the off that he shouldn't have toured its a shame if his tour ends like this.

It's been reported by BBC Sport now on twitter, and been mentioned on Scrum V during coverage of the Japan/Wales game.

Just been announced on BBC during our very poor game against Japan that he is OUT of the tour.

Unlucky Geth good luck to Grant and Corbs

Real shame for Melon - great player, but desperately unlucky.

Someone has got to help me here: Jenkins, who I quite like, played a lot of the season behind Sheridan at Toulon. Why is there no mention of Sheridan coming to Australia?

Good point doc. I would have had sheridan and grant ahead of corbisero. At least grant is coming. Who would have predicted 2-3 months ago that vunipola would start all 3 tests!

doctor_grey wrote:Someone has got to help me here: Jenkins, who I quite like, played a lot of the season behind Sheridan at Toulon. Why is there no mention of Sheridan coming to Australia?

He's rubbish! The French game is based around him trundling from set peice to set peice, the Australian game will annhialate him in less than 12 minutes!!

That said I would fancy him going out to a specific gameplan, use Sheri, Jones, and POC for the pure power game, but does Sexton have the kicking range to put us in the right positions? Wilko would probably have to be called up for the 10 slot.

Well, I wouldn't call Sheridan rubbish. He kept Gethin out of the starting lineup most of the season.

He clearly is not going to be any threat running with the ball. But, as you said, playing in the pure power game, which can beat Australia, Sheridan would be quite good. He can still scrummage with the best, is strong at the breakdown, and can can take the ball up for a few yards and push the defense back.

Except JW has just had surgery.

Shame for Gethin. A predictable outcome, but a real shame.

littlejohn wrote:Good point doc. I would have had sheridan and grant ahead of corbisero. At least grant is coming. Who would have predicted 2-3 months ago that vunipola would start all 3 tests!

Agree! Not even Vunipola's mum.

doctor_grey wrote:Well, I wouldn't call Sheridan rubbish. He kept Gethin out of the starting lineup most of the season.

He clearly is not going to be any threat running with the ball. But, as you said, playing in the pure power game, which can beat Australia, Sheridan would be quite good. He can still scrummage with the best, is strong at the breakdown, and can can take the ball up for a few yards and push the defense back.

Gatland has an anti-Sheridan bias

Ye rubbish is harsh, but he is very limited in what he offers, and we already had LH's who could do the job in the scrum and offer work around the park.

Gatland plays a high tempo high conditioned game, Sheri certainly wouldn't fit into that.

Would a lions team looking like...

Sheridan
Hibbard
Jones
Hines
POC
Lydiate
Warburton
Heaslip
Phillips
Wilko
North
Roberts
Tuilagi
Cuthbert
Kearney

Have inspired though? Now I look at it... mmm

Loooove that team blues!!!

Shame for Gethin, but this was on the cards from the outset, he was there because the lions management took a calculated risk, no doubt with medical advice......shame for him but am I the only one who hopes Mako ISN'T the test starter? Like the idea of him coming off the bench to clash about a bit but think I'd prefer to see either of the other two actually starting

ultra wrote:Loooove that team blues!!!

Shame for Gethin, but this was on the cards from the outset, he was there because the lions management took a calculated risk, no doubt with medical advice......shame for him but am I the only one who hopes Mako ISN'T the test starter? Like the idea of him coming off the bench to clash about a bit but think I'd prefer to see either of the other two actually starting

No your not the only one, I still have reservations despite his good form against poor opposition.

Guess we'll have a better idea after today's game, first real test of the tour......come on you liooons!!!

Think there is a good chance that Corbs or Grant will start. Gatland will want his best scrummaging option at the start of the test and his ball carriers to come on when the game opens up. I think the likes of Mako, T Youngs and possibly Croft will have been earmarked for the bench. That can obviously change but I reckon that would have been the plan at the outset.

Wow, what a pity two of our best front row players. Three front row players in total to miss the business end of tour. Front row curse?

Sad news this morning, we have lost a great player. Luckily the Lions have plenty of loosehead quality to call on.

Sad for Gethin though. I am sure a summer rest will do him and Cardiff Blues a lot of good

maestegmafia wrote:Sad news this morning, we have lost a great player. Luckily the Lions have plenty of loosehead quality to call on.

Sad for Gethin though. I am sure a summer rest will do him and Cardiff Blues a lot of good

According to some knowledgable welsh posters, Jenkins has had this issue for quite some time and it needs careful management - ie limited training. In that situation will the Blues see much of him or will he be saved for Wales?

How exactly would the Australian game annihilate him bluesman???? In the past he has always shown a particular liking for playing our friends from Down Under.

There is one player in the Northern Hemisphere who puts the fear of God into Australians, and believe it or not it is Mr. Sheridan.

Robbie Deans will be very grateful to Warren for leaving him in Europe.

Sheridan does not put the fear of god into anyone. One decent game against a weak Aus front row that was based on boring in all the time does not a world beater make. A big lazy slow lump in the lose as well

Such a shame - one of Geth's biggest strengths is his chilled nature - temperamentally very well suited to propping. Also, he surely must have been the most experienced prop out there? I wouldn't send him home - he'd be a great boy to have helping with training and analysis.

I understand a lot of posters' trepidation about Grant but as someone who's watched his development for a number of years, I have absolutely no fears whatsoever. This is a man whose first cap came in beating Australia in Australia. They make them tough in the army.

Grant is a great player, has been a pillar for Glasgow for a few seasons.

He was phenomenal in the Glasgow Ospreys match up vs Adam Jones.

Can see him being a test starter now...!

TJ wrote:Sheridan does not put the fear of god into anyone. One decent game against a weak Aus front row that was based on boring in all the time does not a world beater make. A big lazy slow lump in the lose as well

You clearly don't watch much French Rugby

Well it had to happen. He clearly was not fit enough he as had long enough to recover.

majesticimperialman wrote:Well it had to happen. He clearly was not fit enough he as had long enough to recover.

Most people would chose to post their condolences at his misfortune. Jenkins has been a magnificent player for a decade for Ponty, Blues, Wales and two Lions tours. Three grandslams and a Six Nations championship.

A record like that deserves respect from any fan. It is therefor completely understandable why the lions coaches gave Gethin every reasonable opportunity to play.

maestegmafia wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Well it had to happen. He clearly was not fit enough he as had long enough to recover.

Most people would chose to post their condolences at his misfortune. Jenkins has been a magnificent player for a decade for Ponty, Blues, Wales and two Lions tours. Three grandslams and a Six Nations championship.

A record like that deserves respect from any fan. It is therefor completely understandable why the lions coaches gave Gethin every reasonable opportunity to play.

To be fair to him, he's actually been a bit classier in his post this time. Certainly a lot better than he was acting yesterday.

I thought Class was meant to be permenent???

Gents,
I think it is a shame Jenkins has to leave and won't play. But, I think the point is a good one. Lions tours always seem to have these bizarre and unnaturally high injury counts. In that context, does it make sense to bring players already injured?

Frankly, in my professional life as a sport doc, I have never seen anything like this. And I have been involved with Rugby a long time. My medical practise here in the US works with a lot of pro athletes playing for the New Jersey based teams, and still Lions tours seem to be higher.

doctor_grey wrote:Gents,
I think it is a shame Jenkins has to leave and won't play. But, I think the point is a good one. Lions tours always seem to have these bizarre and unnaturally high injury counts. In that context, does it make sense to bring players already injured?

Frankly, in my professional life as a sport doc, I have never seen anything like this. And I have been involved with Rugby a long time. My medical practise here in the US works with a lot of pro athletes playing for the New Jersey based teams, and still Lions tours seem to be higher.

It's the end of season, I guess it is to be expected.

Risca Rev wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Well it had to happen. He clearly was not fit enough he as had long enough to recover.

Most people would chose to post their condolences at his misfortune. Jenkins has been a magnificent player for a decade for Ponty, Blues, Wales and two Lions tours. Three grandslams and a Six Nations championship.

A record like that deserves respect from any fan. It is therefor completely understandable why the lions coaches gave Gethin every reasonable opportunity to play.

To be fair to him, he's actually been a bit classier in his post this time. Certainly a lot better than he was acting yesterday.

RiscaRev. Cheers for that, i will take what you say as a compliment.

majesticimperialman wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Well it had to happen. He clearly was not fit enough he as had long enough to recover.

Most people would chose to post their condolences at his misfortune. Jenkins has been a magnificent player for a decade for Ponty, Blues, Wales and two Lions tours. Three grandslams and a Six Nations championship.

A record like that deserves respect from any fan. It is therefor completely understandable why the lions coaches gave Gethin every reasonable opportunity to play.

To be fair to him, he's actually been a bit classier in his post this time. Certainly a lot better than he was acting yesterday.

RiscaRev. Cheers for that, i will take what you say as a compliment.

It was sort of. I hope you don't decide to do your constant questioning of when players are going to be sent home in future though. I don't think it's good form and though it maybe crossed a few people's mind, there's ways to raise the point and not keep going on about it.

maestegmafia wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Gents,
I think it is a shame Jenkins has to leave and won't play. But, I think the point is a good one. Lions tours always seem to have these bizarre and unnaturally high injury counts. In that context, does it make sense to bring players already injured?

Frankly, in my professional life as a sport doc, I have never seen anything like this. And I have been involved with Rugby a long time. My medical practise here in the US works with a lot of pro athletes playing for the New Jersey based teams, and still Lions tours seem to be higher.

It's the end of season, I guess it is to be expected.

I don't think so. If because the end of the season, then we would see the injuries pile up starting mid-April. And from my experience, I think injury rates are fairly constant throughout the season. We also see the Lions tourists banged up for the start of the following season too. For me, there is much more going on here.

doctor_grey wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Gents,
I think it is a shame Jenkins has to leave and won't play. But, I think the point is a good one. Lions tours always seem to have these bizarre and unnaturally high injury counts. In that context, does it make sense to bring players already injured?

Frankly, in my professional life as a sport doc, I have never seen anything like this. And I have been involved with Rugby a long time. My medical practise here in the US works with a lot of pro athletes playing for the New Jersey based teams, and still Lions tours seem to be higher.

It's the end of season, I guess it is to be expected.

I don't think so. If because the end of the season, then we would see the injuries pile up starting mid-April. And from my experience, I think injury rates are fairly constant throughout the season. We also see the Lions tourists banged up for the start of the following season too. For me, there is much more going on here.

Like what?

Gutted, gutted, gutted and even more gutted.
Would have loved to see an all welsh front row again during some point in the 3 tests but it's not going to happen now
but it happens and it's Gethin so I should have seen it coming. Bluddy calf.

Anyway I hope Grant gets a chance now, but it will still be competitive between him and Corbs for that test spot I think. For me Vunipolo is nailed down on the bench because he can make so much impact after 50-60 minutes.
So it's either Grant or Corbs.
At the moment it would be Grant for me because of his current form and he is a class scrummager, but Corbs and Adam in a front row would also be a lethal scrum.
See how the other rounds go. But grant clinches it for me at the moment.

doctor_grey wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Gents,
I think it is a shame Jenkins has to leave and won't play. But, I think the point is a good one. Lions tours always seem to have these bizarre and unnaturally high injury counts. In that context, does it make sense to bring players already injured?

Frankly, in my professional life as a sport doc, I have never seen anything like this. And I have been involved with Rugby a long time. My medical practise here in the US works with a lot of pro athletes playing for the New Jersey based teams, and still Lions tours seem to be higher.

It's the end of season, I guess it is to be expected.

I don't think so. If because the end of the season, then we would see the injuries pile up starting mid-April. And from my experience, I think injury rates are fairly constant throughout the season. We also see the Lions tourists banged up for the start of the following season too. For me, there is much more going on here.

Doc,

I would argue that being the end of the season has an effect. Mainly because players will struggle through the niggles towards the end of the season so are fragile, need rest yet off they go again. Saints released a list of about 10 players who are having operations this summer - all were fit to play in the AP final but all had niggles that will need fixing. In the other code St Helens released a similar list of about 14 players.

So take battered bodies that are not at 100% add in yet more heavy training, long haul flights is it a surprise there are injuries. That they then come back knackered is no surprise as they have had insufficent rest for bodies to recover.


My one worry is cryo-chambers. I am nervous about any technology that allows players to exceed their normal training and reduce recovery times. Is there any decent research in journals around this area? Are we getting a short term gain, but long term pain?

doctor_grey wrote:For me, there is much more going on here.

I wonder whether the whole set-up increases the chance of injury.

If the non-Test matches lack intensity, the coaches ramp it up in training. If instead the opposition look to ambush the Lions, the visitors get a work-out. Either way, there are a lot of bodies hurtling at each other.

Everyone trying to get on the same page as quickly as possible probably contributes. Players are bound to be unfamiliar with new attack and defence patterns, so will probably be in the wrong places and positions more often than usual. That increases the chances of taking a knock.

Also adding to the mix is the fact that everyone is trying mightily to impress.

LondonTiger,
I am not discounting the end of season factor at all. But, I think there is something more. We are only two or three matches into the tour. I think if only end of season we would see the same at the usual end of season tours. But to your point, our players take a huge beating all season, which is one of the reasons I feel the season is too long. Clearly more Rugby equals more injuries.

Rugby Fan I think you have to be right, though I don't know what in the setup exacerbates the injuries. You make some good points here. If training is almost match like intensity that would certainly make things worse.

Gents,
Still goes back to a question I posted earlier. Do you think it make sense to bring players already carrying injuries?

About the cryo-chambers. I know a number of people think they work well. And these include some good medical folks. There are other good medical folk who think they are either benign or even a bit harmful. I suppose some of it depends upon what you want to believe. For me, and my medical practise here, we are not convinced that putting a body in an icebox is the answer. Our team agrees we need to see better studies.

I just don't understand it. How could he not have been properly assessed. He was injured as soon as he got on tour, he wasn't match fit and now we learn he's out for another 3 weeks... And that's before he can play.

How can you mistake a 4-6 wk injury for a 1-2 wk injury... That's a bad show by the staff.

Vunipola has now played 3 matches in a 8 days. He's our front runner and he's probably knackered.

This oh but he's such an important player rubbish is nonsense..... He was yesteryear but he was never 1st choice in his position let alone critical to the lions.
If it was sexton then perhaps.... But that's because he don't have anyone else.

He's been out of shape all season just hanging on.

His lack of game time has meant our now test starter has now played a lot of rugby in a short period of time and that's when injuries occur.

I too worry about ice baths.... Does it give the idea players can over train because recovery time is meant to be cut short??? If the science is not bullet proof I would also be wary of it.... If you over work the body it breaks down.