England summer tour of Argentina - V2

by king_carlos Sat 08 Jun 2013, 7:55 pm

First topic message reminder :

Cheers to all who posted on the first thread but having reached 1000 posts here's a second one for the remainder of the tour!

Link to the first thread - https://www.606v2.com/t42259-england-summer-tour-of-argentina

Link to the thread for 1st test - https://www.606v2.com/t45030-argentina-vs-england-810pm-ko

Let's hope for a game tonight that lives up to the promise of the players in each side. Ale

by blackcanelion Mon 17 Jun 2013, 2:24 am

I'm not sure if anyone has commented on this before. It's a bit out of context. I think that any performance has be put in light of how weak this Argentinian side is. It's as side made up of amateurs and many of the lesser professionals. It'll be interesting to see if any of the team make the 22 for the Rugby championship.

I think there in lies a problem for Argentina. Entry to the RC means that they have to rest their top players in June. In the past they could get many of them onto the pitch. Unfortunately, for their rankings we are unlikely to see them at full strength outside the RC and world cup.

The current team is probably the weakest international team, relative to their full strength squad, that is playing in June. Which is saying a lot given the fact that Wales is down 15 players. It's a sad state of affairs for the state of the game.

by robbo277 Mon 17 Jun 2013, 7:25 am

jelly wrote:Think a lot will depend on how they start for their clubs next season. Very difficult to rest players for the Summer, or have them go off to the Lions, and then drop them for players who have performed well against weak opposition.

We really have no idea how some of those players who people now want dropped would have performed and you have to try and judge them in like for like circumstances. Some players have definitely shown potential but I think it would be a mistake to jettison players who less than a year ago were beating New Zealand in one of England's best performances for years.

True, but I think we've got to be harsh and say players doing an okay job aren't doing enough.

If you look at three different examples:

Chris Ashton: Great player, terrible form. The EPS is picked every July, there is no previous form to judge, so last year's form becomes more important. On that basis, Chris Ashton shouldn't be in the EPS, and that is down to his own poor performances as much as the emergence of Wade and Yarde.

Brad Barritt: Good player, nothing more. Ties the team together in defence and is a very limited attacking tool. I was watching the highlights of the second Argentina test and after Eastmond's try I turned to my housemate and asked if he could ever imagine Barritt doing that. He's been like a stop gap really and hasn't done a bad job, but I think it would be good to try someone with a wider range of skills and Twelvetrees in particular has shown up well. I'd possibly put Parling into the Barritt catagory. I think Parling is more useful than Barritt, but I just think that Launchbury and Attwood offer more grunt up front and will develop the areas Parling excels at, whereas Parling is not about to put on two stone.

Owen Farrell: A good player and a great prospect, hasn't really let England down before but you wouldn't say he's really won us any matches. We know what he brings and one can assume that he's only going to get better, which is why I wouldn't fully discard him and have him on my bench. But Burns is a more complete player now and I'd like to see him giving a shot over the Autumn series. This can of course be reassessed afterwards for the Six Nations.

It's not just a case of selecting those who played well against limited opposition, those who played against the limited opposition had been banging on the door for a while now and when given a chance have stepped up and taken it.

by Geordie Mon 17 Jun 2013, 9:38 am

jelly wrote:But, as pointed out above, he played with Twelvetrees when we scored tries against Scotland and also played when we got tries against NZ

Yes fair enough...but he nearly butchered his own try v NZ due to poor skills...his pass to Tuilagi was horrific.

by Bathman_in_London Mon 17 Jun 2013, 9:42 am

A tour summary for me:

Front row- very pleased with how Marler, Webber and Wilson performed. Strong in the scrum and worked hard around the pitch too. Especially pleased for Wilson, who probably had more minutes on the pitch in the 1st game than he has for all his other caps combined. Webber and Youngs could be a nice bench/starting hooker combo?

Second row- Attwood and Launchberry looked very good to me, although I didn't like the pre-planned subbing of Attwood at 50 mins in both games, he certainly didnt need to be taken off.

Backrow- I liked the balance, hopefully this shows SL that three 6's doesnt a backrow make. I think in a year or 2 Billy V. could be seriously good. Kvesic tackled well and seemed to provide a 'link', which I like.

Halfbacks- Dickson was good, but for me there is still a gulf between Care/Youngs and the other SH choices. Burns was ok I thought, certainly good enough to be included for the AIs but with more to work on. Myler looked like he was 4th choice until Ford/Slade etc come through, which he is.

Centres- Twelvetrees was very impressive and should be pushing hard for that 12 jersey, JJ less so for me, but maybe a change of scenary this coming season will revitalise him. Eastmond has the best footwork (I think) in the squad, would anyone else have scored that try? I wonder if SL would ever trust him for big games due to his size though.

Back 3- Wade and Yarde looked very good and I hope aren't discarded. I was a little disappointed by Jonny May, but its only his first cap. At FB, Brown looked solid, but for me a in form and fit Foden is a better option than an inform Brown (or Goode for that matter).

Overall, a very good tour for England. So the next step, the EPS for next season. When it that announced? I really hope these players who have taken their chance aren't just pushed aside. For me, this summer tour team should be seen as the team for the first EPS training session, with the rested/Lions players having to prove themselves in the league games before the AIs to win their spots back.

by Geordie Mon 17 Jun 2013, 9:44 am

And i notice also that its
12 Barritt
13 Twelvetrees
for the Lions v Brumbies on Tuesday.

Lets see what they can do.

by Breadvan Mon 17 Jun 2013, 9:52 am

This tour and the Lions will give SL some selection headaches. I just pray he picks on form and players in their regular positions for the AI's and 6 Nations. I know Arg were understrength but you wonder why Eng couldn't play like that in the final 3 games of the 6N?

by logansrun38 Mon 17 Jun 2013, 10:21 am

Pointless test series against poor opposition. You lot are deluded if you think SL has learnt anything from it. England will get smashed by the SH teams in the Autumn.

by bluestonevedder Mon 17 Jun 2013, 10:26 am

I think the tour has got to be considered a resounding success. This is only supported by the fact that 2 players were flown out to hook up with the Lions after their displays in the first test.

We've unearthed some real talent and depth now, most noticeably in the backline and front row.
Hopefully SL will never have to revert to playing 3 fullbacks in the back 3.

My top 3 players from this summer tour are: Kvesic, Attwood, Webber.

Note that this is heavily weighted towards those that played both tests. Undoubtedly had Wade, 36, and Yarde all payed both tests, they would have undoubtedly featured here because they were sublime. 36 especially for me, was excellent.

Attwood is just different to any other second rows we currently have, and his heavy duty carrying around the rucks, as well as his strong defence were a welcome change.

If I was Hartley, I'd be worrying about my place in the EPS. Webber has a similar style of game, but in my view, has shown on this tour that he is better at it. He got some lovely turnovers too.

I want to see more of Eastmond! Boy, what a pass he has too.

by bluestonevedder Mon 17 Jun 2013, 10:27 am

logansrun38 wrote:Pointless test series against poor opposition. You lot are deluded if you think SL has learnt anything from it. England will get smashed by the SH teams in the Autumn.

Nothing like starting a Monday morning productively, is there Logan?

by **Ozzy3213** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 10:36 am

logansrun38 wrote:Pointless test series against poor opposition. You lot are deluded if you think SL has learnt anything from it. England will get smashed by the SH teams in the Autumn.

Well you're a little ray of sunshine this morning aren't you!!!

by bluestonevedder Mon 17 Jun 2013, 10:38 am

Makes a change from the Harlequins bashing though. Always quiet during the club off-season I guess.

by logansrun38 Mon 17 Jun 2013, 10:40 am

Im sure you'll be moaning when the Boks and ABs steam roller England in the Autumn

by bluestonevedder Mon 17 Jun 2013, 10:45 am

Moaning like you are now?

by Geordie Mon 17 Jun 2013, 10:53 am

logansrun38 wrote:Im sure you'll be moaning when the Boks and ABs steam roller England in the Autumn

Like they did last Autumn? Wink

by **LondonTiger** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 11:01 am

Boks did not exactly steam roller us last year either.

Whilst I agree that the quality of the opposition means we are in danger of reading too much into these performances, even so there were encouraging signs.

by ChequeredJersey Mon 17 Jun 2013, 11:09 am

Logan, I can get you some citalopram if you like. I've rarely come across someone so miserable and devoid of hope

by ChequeredJersey Mon 17 Jun 2013, 11:11 am

Also, as we aren't playing South Africa this year I will be utterly astounded if they steamroll us

by Geordie Mon 17 Jun 2013, 11:19 am

LT

Yeah i agree, ive been a little critical about the standard of the poopsition, but you can only play whats in front of you...and several guys really continued the form they have shown all season.

Attwood, Yarde, Wade etc..Wilson has been rejuvenated all season and continued his form aswell...

Eastmond showed superb vision and handling...not mention a lovely individual try aswell.
Twelvetrees, whilst not the defensive king that Barritt is offers more class at 12.
Webber showed that Hartleys spot could be in serious trouble...and that he can challenge the Impressive Youngs for that 2 spot. Youngs has been the best Lions hooker so far.

He has a big dilema at second row and back row as well.

Does Parling keep his spot...or does Attwoods rampaging form all season push him ahead, or indeed does Attwood leapfrog Launchbury to play alongside Parling. That might be a bit more balanced.

Croft or Wood...to cracking 6's to have.

Kvesic showed he really could be a top class 7...Robshaw is still Lancs captain and a top class player...but he too has a challenge...along with Fraser and Wallace coming through and who knows how Andy Saull goes with us back in the prem....after working with Deano and John Wells.

Now not all these will start the AI's...but if their form remains impressive at the start of next season then they much be considered...

We have two players (or more) in pretty much every position, but need to ensure we pick the right payers and balance....

1 Corbs, Marler, Vunipola, (Mullan)
2 Youngs, Webber, Hartley, (Buchanan, Lindsay coming through)
3 Cole, Wilson (With Sinkler, S.Wilson, Knight, Thomas all coming through)
4/5 Parling, Attwood, Lawes, Launchbury
6 Wood, Croft
7 Robshaw, Kvesic, (Fraser, Wallace)
8 Morgan, Vunipola

9 Youngs, Care, Dickson
10 Farrell, Flood, Burns
12 Barritt, Twelvetrees (Eastmond)
13 Tuilagi, Lowe, Joseph,Trinder, Tomkins
14 Wade, Yarde, Ashton, May
15 Brown, Foden, Goode

by **LondonTiger** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 11:49 am

For me it was a shame that tomkins had surgery early and missed out. I would have liked to see what he could have done on this tour.

by **Ozzy3213** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 11:56 am

Tomkins has done well since coming over from league, and I do rate him highly, certainly at club level, but I am not totally convinced that he looks like international material. He is not the quickest, and I think this could be an issue for him against better organised defences at the top level.

by Hood83 Mon 17 Jun 2013, 12:08 pm

I'm completely unconvinced by Tomkins. People seem to rave about him because he seems a mix of JJ and Manu. For my mind he's looked slow, unimaginative and his lauded off-loads never seem to go to hand. I see nothing to suggest an international player.

by ChequeredJersey Mon 17 Jun 2013, 12:09 pm

Bit early to say Sinckler is coming through, he's very talented but very raw/young

by Big Mon 17 Jun 2013, 12:09 pm

Geordie, two+ players in every position bar 11?? (where's the wink smiley when you need it?)

Anyway, I seriously cannot recall there being so much genuine competition for spots in the England team. It's a great position to be in. For those playing down the Argentine team, yes they weren't great - but a second string Argentina team got wins against Italy and France last June. So hey, they can't be that bad.

by ChequeredJersey Mon 17 Jun 2013, 12:13 pm

Plus, I know Argentina don't have much depth and put out a very weak team (their choice, we can only beat what is ahead of us and beat it well), but by my count our England 15 had: 2 (arguably 3) SL 1st choice players, then some 3rd/4th choicers in with the 2nd choicers. If our back ups are better than the PUmas' it's hardly our fault

by HongKongCherry Mon 17 Jun 2013, 12:19 pm

logansrun38 wrote:Pointless test series against poor opposition. You lot are deluded if you think SL has learnt anything from it. England will get smashed by the SH teams in the Autumn.

I'm amazed you'd say such a thing. With only 2 of your useless Quins players in the team, perhaps he has learnt like you that they are a team going backwards and once Foden reclaims his spot and Mako and Corbs return he can get rid of all the woeful Quins players and make the national side a far better team?

by ChequeredJersey Mon 17 Jun 2013, 12:21 pm

HongKongCherry wrote:
logansrun38 wrote:Pointless test series against poor opposition. You lot are deluded if you think SL has learnt anything from it. England will get smashed by the SH teams in the Autumn.

I'm amazed you'd say such a thing. With only 2 of your useless Quins players in the team, perhaps he has learnt like you that they are a team going backwards and once Foden reclaims his spot and Mako and Corbs return he can get rid of all the woeful Quins players and make the national side a far better team?

Oi!

by HongKongCherry Mon 17 Jun 2013, 12:27 pm

Don't worry CJ, I'm not delving the depths of wumming (unless you become a Bath supporter Wink

). It would be rather nice if perhaps the mods took a stance on this nonsense.

by **Ozzy3213** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 12:30 pm

When is this seasons EPS announced anyway, and how many players exactly can Lancaster name?

by **Ozzy3213** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 12:43 pm

I would expect to see something along these lines as Lancasters EPS selection.

15. Goode, Brown
14. Ashton, Wade
13. Tuilagi, Joseph/Tomkins
12. Barritt, Twelvetrees
11. Foden, Yarde
10. Burns, Farrell, Flood
9. Youngs, Care, Dickson

1. Corbierio, Vunipola, Marler
2. Youngs, Webber, Hartley
3. Cole, Wilson
4. Launchbury, Lawes
5. Parling, Attwood
6. Croft, Wood
7. Robshaw, Kvesic
8. Morgan, Vunipola

He won't completely disregard the players who were rested this summer, nor the players who went with the Lions, as he is nothing if not loyal.

Personally the changes that I would make would be to loose Goode, Joseph/Tomkins, Flood and Hartley and replace them with May, Eastmond and Buchanan.

I do not see Goode or Tomkins as ever being of the standard to trouble the best or really scare teams at international level and that is what I want my backs to do. Foden should not cover wing, he should comepte with Brown for the 15 jersey, with May covering the wings and Eastmond 12 and 13. Joseph flatters to deceive in my mind and needs a good season at Bath to get back in the reckoning. Flood's time has passed and Burns and Farrell shold battle it out for the 10 jersey. Likewise Hartley (who I am actually a big fan of) needs to up his game and an extended spell out of the squad may enable him to do this.

by Bathman_in_London Mon 17 Jun 2013, 12:47 pm

Last year the EPS was named at the begining of July Ozzy. I have no idea how many changes can be made though, thats the interesting bit for me. Of course the majority of the players involved in the Argentina tour were in the Saxons already, which is a bit of a fudge as it means they can be called up for the training periods without SL having to drop anybody from the squad as I understand it?

by **LondonTiger** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 12:53 pm

Pretty sure that early July was the agreed time - as it affects pre-season schedules.

Being the pre-season EPS he can name any player he wants (it is only the January update where changes are restricted).

The original agreement allowed for 32 players. I think that has gone up to 33 with the arrival of 23 men squads.

by HongKongCherry Mon 17 Jun 2013, 12:54 pm

As Bathman says, its some time in July and I believe it is now 33 he can call up. I largely agree with your EPS, although in past years they have often only chosen 2 hookers and just bring a 3rd up to the squad for injury cover. So I wonder if SL will do that and no doubt he'll find am place for Calum Clark...

by **LondonTiger** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 12:56 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:Tomkins has done well since coming over from league, and I do rate him highly, certainly at club level, but I am not totally convinced that he looks like international material. He is not the quickest, and I think this could be an issue for him against better organised defences at the top level.

thi sis why I would have liked to see what he could do - especially as I have seen very little of him at club level.

by thomh Mon 17 Jun 2013, 1:10 pm

Lancaster was talking in the press about a 66 man squad, so either we have an England head coach incapable of calculating 32 x 2, or the squad sized have increased by 1.

If he can get his head round the fact that 11 + 0 ≠ 15 then our back three might start to take shape

by king_carlos Mon 17 Jun 2013, 5:09 pm

Ozzy that squad looks about right for what Lancaster wants I reckon. In an ideal world I'd like to see the below.

Prop - Vunipola, Corbs, Marler, Cole, Wilson
Hooker - Youngs, Webber
Lock - Launchberry, Parling, Attwood, Lawes
Flanker - Robshaw, Croft, Wood, Kvesic, Haskell
Number 8 - Morgan, Vunipola

Scrum half - Youngs, Care
Fly half - Farrell, Flood, Burns
Centre - Twelvetrees, Allen, Tuilagi, Lowe/Joseph/Tomkins - wait for form to separate the last three
Wing - Wade, Yarde, May
Full back - Brown, Foden, Tait - If Tait continues his form from last season

That's a 33 man squad with a 18-15 forward-backs split which is the mix I'd like to see.

Dropping Barritt, Goode and Ashton is harsh I accept but quite simply I want pace at FB which Tait offers in abundance and Goode doesn't. Similarly for Barritt I'd like to see a centre partnership capable of offering a threat themselves and putting someone else in space, as good as Barritt is in defence I'm afraid he just doesn't offer that. As for Ashton if he shows form early in the season I'd happily see him added to the squad but from what we saw last season I feel Wade, Yarde and May deserve an EPS place over him and then our FB resources are so strong I'd like to see 3 wings and 3 FB's rather than 4 wings and 2 FB's.

by **Ozzy3213** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 5:18 pm

You got no place for Eastmond king_carlos?

I have to say I had forgotten about Haskell when weighing up my options. Not sure if I would have him in or not, but he does have bring the benefit of covering the entire back row.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 5:33 pm

My guess at what Lancaster will do:

EPS (33)

Forwards (18)
Prop (5) - Cole, Corbisiero, Marler, Vunipola, Wilson
hooker (2) - Hartley, Youngs
Second Row (4) - Attwood, Launchbury, Lawes, Parling
Back Row (7) - Clark, Croft, Kvesic, Morgan, Robshaw, Vunipola, Wood

Backs (15)
Half-backs (5) - Burns, Care, Farrell, Flood, Youngs
Centres (4) - Barritt, Joseph, Tuilagi, Twelvetrees
Wings (3) - Ashton, Wade, Yarde
Full Backs (3) - Brown, Foden, Goode

Saxons
will include the following:

Forwards

Props - Doran-Jones, Harden, Mullan, Thomas
Hooker - Buchannan, Webber
Second Row - Kitchener, Myall, Savage, Slater
Back Row - Fraser, Haskell, Johnson, Kruis (and maybe Crane)

Backs

Half Backs - Dickson, Ford, Myler, Wigglesworth (Simpson or Robson should be in, but conservatism may win out)
Centres - Allen, Eastmond, Tomkins
Wings - May, Sharples

by jeffwinger Mon 17 Jun 2013, 6:54 pm

We always use the word 'conservative' when discussing Lancaster's selections. However I would suggest that continuing to select players who have repeatedly proven themselves unfit for purpose is far from the safe option. It's downright suicidal. One of sports' great ironies I suppose.

by king_carlos Mon 17 Jun 2013, 7:45 pm

Ozzy

My dilemma with Eastmond is that whilst I rate him highly I really don't think he's big enough to play centre against the top opposition. I'm no advocate of playing gigantic centres for the sake of it, much the opposite, but Eastmond is 5'7'' and 80kg which at the end of the day is exactly the same size as the Lions latest addition in lil' Shane and a good 15kilos lighter than the likes of Conrad Smith and BOD who have rely on skill over strength (a great thing to see IMO).

I just fear that despite his strength for his size and quick feet he'd struggle physically against the bigger centres we see these days. As such I'd like to see him on the wing but then we come back to the problem of other players excelling in Wade, Yarde and May alongside Ashton hopefully returning to form. Good problems to have in many ways.

Looking at the centres whilst I feel Eastmond is naturally too small I'd love to see someone like Lowe or Daly in the squad as their pace and quick feet at OC would offer something different if Manu is unavailable.

by ChequeredJersey Mon 17 Jun 2013, 7:52 pm

king_carlos wrote:Ozzy

My dilemma with Eastmond is that whilst I rate him highly I really don't think he's big enough to play centre against the top opposition. I'm no advocate of playing gigantic centres for the sake of it, much the opposite, but Eastmond is 5'7'' and 80kg which at the end of the day is exactly the same size as the Lions latest addition in lil' Shane and a good 15kilos lighter than the likes of Conrad Smith and BOD who have rely on skill over strength (a great thing to see IMO).

I just fear that despite his strength for his size and quick feet he'd struggle physically against the bigger centres we see these days. As such I'd like to see him on the wing but then we come back to the problem of other players excelling in Wade, Yarde and May alongside Ashton hopefully returning to form. Good problems to have in many ways.

Looking at the centres whilst I feel Eastmond is naturally too small I'd love to see someone like Lowe or Daly in the squad as their pace and quick feet at OC would offer something different if Manu is unavailable.

You never know he's too small until you try him at the top level. People were saying that Wade was too small (in a different position) until they actually watched him play rugby

by **Ozzy3213** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 8:38 pm

I'm with ChequeredJersey on this one. I'd prefer to look at his strengths rather than weaknesses, and he is a serious attacking threat.

by lostinwales Mon 17 Jun 2013, 8:44 pm

I think its then a case of trying to work out how best to cover any perceived weaknesses with other players. I dont want to think about dumping Robshaw but maybe having someone faster to cover the big centers may help. A lot of the tackling in the middle of the pitch seems to be done by 2 players rather than one anyway. Not many people are going to run thru Manu

by Geordie Mon 17 Jun 2013, 8:57 pm

Yeah gotta say im with the pro Eastmond guys here. Lets see if hes played at 12 by bath and how he copes with some of the physical teams. I think he'll be just fine, and as has been mentioned his vision and creativity looks a level above.
Of course he has two lumps ahead of him at the moment...Barritt, who i would bench now...and Twelvetrees who i would start.

by **Ozzy3213** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 9:04 pm

I'd be looking at Eastmond as the ideal bench option right now, as he covers 11-15.

15. Mike Brown
14. Christian Wade
13. Manu Tuilagi
12. Billy Twelvetrees
11. Marland Yarde
10. Freddie Burns
9. Ben Youngs

21. Danny Care 22. Owen Farrell 23. Kyle Eastmond

would be my backs for the first test of the AI's (notwithstanding injuries/loss of form later in the year).

by ChequeredJersey Mon 17 Jun 2013, 9:05 pm

He could be our JOC! (ish)

by Geordie Mon 17 Jun 2013, 9:18 pm

Now Ozzy that backline is far more appealing than the one that started most of the 6n...

You look at it and just see creativity...power....and tries...

by ChequeredJersey Mon 17 Jun 2013, 9:20 pm

As a Quins fan, I would be happy to see Foden ahead of Brown as he is on form. Not that I don't want Brown to start, but I'd be happy with either

by **Ozzy3213** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 9:25 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Now Ozzy that backline is far more appealing than the one that started most of the 6n...

You look at it and just see creativity...power....and tries...

Ah ok, feck all chance of us seeing it then! Wink

by HammerofThunor Mon 17 Jun 2013, 9:29 pm

Key thing is that such a team needs time to gel. A simple smash it up will 'work' quicker but would be limited. That sort of team needs the guys to understand each other. It could easy take several games (years?) of things not clicking.

by DaveM Mon 17 Jun 2013, 10:39 pm

I think the tour was a triumph for SL. He said he wanted to develop England's style of play, and he certainly did that, giving virtually every young player I wanted a chance. He now has some excellent problems.

I thought Webber was probably the man of the series - great to see him starting to fullfil his potential. I also can't remember Marler having a better game than in the 2nd Test.

Elsewhere I think Yarde has done enough to be a serious contender in the AI's, as has Wade. I think those two and Nowell will be the wingers in the 2015 squad. I actually thought May played quite well on Saturday too.

What to do with Eastmond is a challenge - if NH rugby was a summer sport then I think he'd be challenging 36. As it is we'll have to wait and see. I wonder if he might be worth a go at 13 outside Twelvetrees.

I was slightly underwhelmed by Burns, but certainly no need to panic. On the other hand I really don't see that he did enough to leapfrog Farrell.

In terms of matchday squad my current guess for the AIs would be:

Brown, Wade, Tuilagi, Twelvetress, Yarde, Farrell, Youngs, Corbs, Youngs, Cole, Launchbury, Parling, Croft, Robshaw, Morgan.

Vunipola, Webber, Wilson, Attwood, Wood, Care, Burns, Foden

I know lots of people would swap Attwood and Parling, but in any case I think this is a fine looking and plausible matchday 23.

by Sponsored content