Who is definitely not going to be in 1st test team?

One of the things that stands out after the first few games is that selection for the 1st test squad is still wide open. Unlike previous tours the vast majority of the squad can still believe they have a genuine chance of getting a test spot.

Id say only Best (came in as 3rd choice and has unfortunately not shone) Ian Evans (solid, but 2d row massively competitive and others look ahead of him) and Zebo are the only certs not to be involved at this stage.

Like I say, I think this is a good sign, but are there others I'm missing?

I'd say add Ryan Grant and Matt Stevens.

Stevens. Kearney almost certainly (sadly) Davies in the centers hasnt had much chance at all but also seems unlikely. Murray. Probably Grant

Can't see Murray being involved as it stands. He is behind Phillips as a physical 9 and Youngs offers a totally different option. Think those other 2 will share Test duties.

I would say

Grant-Best-Stevens
Evans
Murray-Farrell
Kearney

are the lads who definitely will not start

I think Farrell has still a chance of starting.

red_stag wrote:I think Farrell has still a chance of starting.

Yeh if Sexton gets hit by a bus or something.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

red_stag wrote:I think Farrell has still a chance of starting.

Yeh if Sexton gets hit by a bus or something.

Sexton would still start, I reckon.

I think if anyone outs their hand up at hooker they are pretty much in the test team. None of them are. None of them are ruled out therefore.

I think Hibbard will start, yes, but he's not beyond being ousted.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

red_stag wrote:I think Farrell has still a chance of starting.

Yeh if Sexton gets hit by a bus or something.

Is Sexton back too full fitness yet.

But after to days game those who will not make the test. Matt Stevens. Rory Best. those 2 will be lucky to get test time. in my opinion.

Kearney, Zebo, Farrell, Ian Evans

How you select that back row is beyond me, so much competition

This is a silly thread- John Hayes was a test lion in 2009 and he wasn't even with the touring party at this stage on that tour.

Notch wrote:I think if anyone outs their hand up at hooker they are pretty much in the test team. None of them are. None of them are ruled out therefore.

I think Hibbard will start, yes, but he's not beyond being ousted.

It has been a massive fall from grace for Rory Best.

Rory Best just lookes tired. Not seen his performance today but heard both him and Hibbard struggled at the darts. Slightly ironic that the one hooker who went on tour with a reputation for being a touch iffy at the lineout at times is the one looking the most comfortable throwing in. Especially on the back of his worst lineout performance of the season in the AP final (though he was a monster everywhere else).

Don't rule out Farrell, he's previously overtaken more rounded 10s at club and country with his dad on the coaching team.

We took the wrong Saracens 10!

I find it hard to draw conclusions about certain players especially in the tight five because the games have been so, so easy. How are you going to win turnovers, disrupt rucks, run up a big tackle count when the opposition doesn't have the ball?

I hope that the Brumbies and Waratahs actually clarify the pecking order because your forwards are never going to hit top gear when second gear wins 70% of the ball.

I think Murray as offered more than youngs so far but thats my opinion but hes similar to Phillips.

But stevens, Grant, maybe manu or davies im torn, zebo, t.youngs.

What could be done in my eyes is Hogg could push for the 10 shirt because I was really impressed by him and personally I don't think iver sexton or farrell have been wprthy of the 10 top

welshboii15 wrote:
What could be done in my eyes is Hogg could push for the 10 shirt because I was really impressed by him and personally I don't think iver sexton or farrell have been wprthy of the 10 top

Farrell or sexton have played in the form that got them on the tour, yea sexton hasn't been bad but he
Hasn't been good hes been average

Notch wrote:We took the wrong Saracens 10!

I think I have said the same before. Very happy to see Hogg play well today.

Farrell did well against, by far, the toughest opposition yet.

EnglishReign wrote:Farrell did well against, by far, the toughest opposition yet.

He's growing as the games go on which is massive

welshboii15 wrote:

EnglishReign wrote:Farrell did well against, by far, the toughest opposition yet.

He's growing as the games go on which is massive

Exactly, I think a lot of the criticism is unfair. You can see flashes of an attacking game, we just want to see more of it...and the goal kicking is superb.

welshboii15 wrote:I think Murray as offered more than youngs so far but thats my opinion but hes similar to Phillips.

But stevens, Grant, maybe manu or davies im torn, zebo, t.youngs.

What could be done in my eyes is Hogg could push for the 10 shirt because I was really impressed by him and personally I don't think iver sexton or farrell have been wprthy of the 10 top

I think that's harsh on the Youngs brothers. Tom has had the most secure lineout of all the hookers so far, and Ben played very well against our hardest opposition.

Really don't think there's any chance of Hogg playing 10 in the tests except in a real emergency. He's there as a full back who can make the odd appearance at 10 to take the pressure off Sexton and Farrell, rather than a realistic test option.

EnglishReign wrote:

welshboii15 wrote:

EnglishReign wrote:Farrell did well against, by far, the toughest opposition yet.

He's growing as the games go on which is massive

Exactly, I think a lot of the criticism is unfair. You can see flashes of an attacking game, we just want to see more of it...and the goal kicking is superb.

I think giving him a chance out side mike Phillips and in side Roberts and BOD he could shine plus with halfpenny kicking if he is starting then thats another pressure off his shoulders will also help him

I just don't think ben has shown his spark which he has and im just not sure about tom he has been throwing well but when hes bad he couldn't hit a barn door where hibbard and best will hit 8/10 line outs most games

welshboii15 wrote:I just don't think ben has shown his spark which he has and im just not sure about tom he has been throwing well but when hes bad he couldn't hit a barn door where hibbard and best will hit 8/10 line outs most games

Best has missed 5 lineouts in 80 minutes so far and didn't have a good six nations either.

Also, remember that this is a thread about who WILL be selected, not who should be. Best wasn't selected in the original squad so would have needed a big performance when he started to get past the other two. Didn't really get one.

No this thread is about who won't be in test team

welshboii15 wrote:No this thread is about who won't be in test team

That's the same question really, and I was giving a reason why, whatever your personal view on Best/Youngs, Youngs is clearly preferred by the coaches.

thomh wrote:

welshboii15 wrote:No this thread is about who won't be in test team

That's the same question really, and I was giving a reason why, whatever your personal view on Best/Youngs, Youngs is clearly preferred by the coaches.

Yea I know what your saying and they clearly know more than I do its just my opinion

I just don't think ben has shown his spark which he has

Boii, Ben had one game against the toughest opposition with Farrell at 10 for a good portion of it. He provided more creative spark that the other two 9s, mugged off an opposition backrow for a try and passed and kicked well. He didn't get the arm chair ride Phillips has had. I'll be disappointed if he doesn't start, particularly with his record against Australia.

Lets be fair the pack made that try by disrupting thw scrum and he just had reaction to dive on the ball. Having farrell out side him would be better because he knows his game, he hasn't been at his best and yes mike had an easy game but lets be fair Murray and youngs are there because their the best back ups to mike

Think the arguments indicate the competitive nature of this squad., So where have we got to? Seems consensus is Stevens can be added to the 'definitely out' brigade. Fair to add Kearney and Grant to the list, so...

Grant, Best, Stevens, Evans, Kearney and Zebo the 6 who have absolutely no realistic chance of being involved?

I predict that some of the players being written off will be test lions- I bet all three hookers will win test caps for instance, if they make it uninjured to the tests, the rates of attrition being massive.

Trying to predict what happens on a Lions tour isn't easy. We'll probably see another injury exit or two before the tests and that could propel any of the guys into the 23.

Notch wrote:I predict that some of the players being written off will be test lions- I bet all three hookers will win test caps for instance, if they make it uninjured to the tests, the rates of attrition being massive.

Trying to predict what happens on a Lions tour isn't easy. We'll probably see another injury exit or two before the tests and that could propel any of the guys into the 23.

I agree

There is little to call between so many players in the squad. Even if you look at the players who are nailed on certainties their back up is pushing hard for inclusion and we are lucky to have this situation.

But the question isn't about the test series, it is about the first test (and I think most have done it assuming no more injuries)

Was just watching the second test from 97 and you see people like Bentley, Healey and Miller who were all a long way from the test team 10 days before the first test. There will no doubt be another couple of injuries before the 1st test and probably 5 or 6 by the time of the last test. All the players there (yes maestegmafia, even Farrell) deserve to be there and will hopefully do themselves and the Lions proud if and when they get their chance.

Sheridan/James
Hartley/Ford/Owens
Ross/Murray
Hamilton/Launchberry
Hines/Lawes/Ryan
Brown/Wood/Jones
Robshaw/Rennie/Armitage
Morgan/Beattie/Easter
Care/Laidlaw
Wilkinson/Hook/Madigan/Biggar
Visser/Gilroy
Barrit/Twelvetrees/Darcy
Scott/Earls/Williams
Ashton/Wade
Foden/Brown/Goode

i reckon that squad could make a good fist of taking on the aussies sir!

Gatland should have sent Bowe and Kearney home. Hogg, Halfpenny and Maitland have done well enough and now Zebo is another option. Kearney having no training time can't be selected now, and keeping Bowe is just undermining those who are there as it shows Gatland isn't backing them in the faint hope that Bowe does miraculously become fit enough.

red_stag wrote:I think Farrell has still a chance of starting.

If his dad shoots Gatland in the back of the head and buries him in the outback

formerly known as Sam wrote:

I just don't think ben has shown his spark which he has

Boii, Ben had one game against the toughest opposition with Farrell at 10 for a good portion of it. He provided more creative spark that the other two 9s, mugged off an opposition backrow for a try and passed and kicked well. He didn't get the arm chair ride Phillips has had. I'll be disappointed if he doesn't start, particularly with his record against Australia.

Prepare to be disappointed

formerly known as Sam wrote:Ben had one game against the toughest opposition with Farrell at 10 for a good portion of it. He provided more creative spark that the other two 9s, mugged off an opposition backrow for a try and passed and kicked well. He didn't get the arm chair ride Phillips has had. I'll be disappointed if he doesn't start, particularly with his record against Australia.

+1

The Lions have had one properly testing game so far and both Youngs and Farrell played well.

Youngs could edge Phillips. Farrell will be back up to Sexton.

I've read quite a few write-ups of the Reds game and almost all gave marks of 7/10 to both Farrell and Youngs. Amazing how some learned posters on here thought they played badly.

A 7/10 against the Reds is worth rather more than an 8 or 9 against some makeshift group of possum farmers and wallaby tamers.

I agree it's wide open. The Brumbies game is going to be very tough as they've rotated their squad well this season and have quite a battle hardened crew. I still think that we've at least one major injury blow to come, by the law of averages because the S15 franchise players will definitely have a crack.

What will help us a little is that the international window is now open and a lot of S15 franchise players have been called up on international duty, as Scotland found out to its cost last weekend.

Am not generally a fan of negative threads but I would say that Stevens, Murray, Zebo and possibly also Best are not currently the fashionable options.

Stevens is well behind Cole and Jones, so would probably be ruled out on that basis.

Grant will probably get a chance in one of the remaining two games to push himself up there, but you'd think he's struggling at the moment.

Best hasn't had a good tour so far, and considering he was only picked as a replacement is surely unlikely to make the squad (first test) at this point.

Evans has been comfortably the worst (or least good if you prefer) of the second row players. Solid player but won't make the first test squad ahead of the other four.

Backrow: so many options, impossible to say right now. Think Croft may be slightly down in the pecking order?

Half-backs: think Murray is well behind Philips and Youngs. Sexton will start (if fit) with Farrell on the bench.

Wings: Zebo should get a chance to prove himself, but at the moment must be behind the other three.

Full-back: Halfpenny seems nailed on, Hogg may well make the bench (hopefully not covering 10 though), can't see Kearney in the mix at this stage.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Stevens is well behind Cole and Jones, so would probably be ruled out on that basis.

Grant will probably get a chance in one of the remaining two games to push himself up there, but you'd think he's struggling at the moment.

Best hasn't had a good tour so far, and considering he was only picked as a replacement is surely unlikely to make the squad (first test) at this point.

Evans has been comfortably the worst (or least good if you prefer) of the second row players. Solid player but won't make the first test squad ahead of the other four.

Backrow: so many options, impossible to say right now. Think Croft may be slightly down in the pecking order?

Half-backs: think Murray is well behind Philips and Youngs. Sexton will start (if fit) with Farrell on the bench.

Wings: Zebo should get a chance to prove himself, but at the moment must be behind the other three.

Full-back: Halfpenny seems nailed on, Hogg may well make the bench (hopefully not covering 10 though), can't see Kearney in the mix at this stage.

Why?

He certainly showed he could play there yesterday.

I think it's unlikely that Grant and Zebo will make the 1st Test - neither having played a game yet with a week to go. I think it's too late for them both. Same with Kearney.

Stevens shouldn't be anywhere near the 23, and I very much doubt Rory Best will make it. I think Hibbard will start with Youngs coming on for impact.

I also don't think Parling will make the Test side, but that's more perception than justified based on his performances.

People writing Evans off clearly don't know the player - He was one, if not the stand out 2nd row player in the 6 nations and is probably the most abrasive 2nd row we have. I find it a little hysterical that he is being judged on 2 performances in which his team has put 50 or 60 points on the opposition. Cometh the hour it will be those hard men who will stand up and be counted in the Tests as opposed to the cameo boys running things in for fun etc. Gatland, thankfully knows what this fella brings and he won't be discarding him as easily as some have on here. If the going gets tough it's people like Evans I would want in the boiler room alongside POC - as it stands I would take POC & Grey but it remains to be seen as we need to judge players when the heat comes on to see what they are really capable of.

how else do you expect him to be judged Ruby?

Do coaches pick players solely on performances 4/5 months ago? Was he playing well... sure. But playing well when you have no competition is different when you do. He was playing week in week out, their was no change of personnel and players weren't under pressure to perform personally right at that minute unlike Lions tours.

Is he a good player, absolutely... is he on form.... not as much as others. The best players tend to stand out from the crowd amongst their peers. This is especially true in lions tours.

Same with AW Jones. Happened in 09, its happening now.

Everyone bar Murray, Best, Kearney and Tuilagi have a shot of a starting spot or bench spot imo.

I think the test side is pretty much selected with the only question marks being Loosehead, backrow and right wing.

I actually think that the position where posters seem to be most divided is at lock. Wildly differing views as to how well players have played and what their value is. I don't see Parling except at lineouts, for example, but it's clear some people vehemently disagree. Whomever is chosen to partner POC needs to complement him, however and this has to be borne in mind when picking a partner.

Tuilagi? I'd be very surprised if he doesn't start on Saturday and then, if he has a good game, he has a good chance of being in the 23 for the first test and possibly starting ahead of Roberts.