Fantasy Fights

Think we had a go at this a while back in 2012 so thought id start a fresh one as another year goes by.

Basically you choose 3 fantasy fights you would love to see throughout boxing history. It can be modern day fighters against past legends or just fights that were not quite made in your era which you longed for.

So, here is my three:

Mike Tyson vs Ali - very common fight people think of with Dream or Fantasy fight. Id pick Tyson to nail ali around 5 or 6. He was just utterly ferocious.  Would have been brilliant to watch.

Manny Paquiao vs Duran - what can we say about this?! You would not need a big build up to shift tickets as both guys are aggressive warriors. After an early onslaught from pacquiao id pick duran to catch up mid to late rounds with some great inside work to the body maybe forcing a late stoppage.......but yet it could all be over early via  a pacman TKO......who knows......errr.......Duran.....just.

Floyd Mayweather Jr vs Sugar Ray Leonard - A fight of tacticians......slow paced....pot shots.....movement....a "pure" boxing master peice. Im going mayweather UD. I just think he is ever so slightly more rounded.


Over to you gents. .... (im expecting some big shouts from Truss and Chris on this. ......along with Winchester no doubt)


Go......

Interestng fights Mobile...........Tyson was an animal but he could be tied up...messed about a little till the steam left his work and he had a habit of feeling sorry for himself.....Always the chance of him catching ali with a Holmes type shot and finishing him though Ali was never stopped.....But more likely Ali weathers a storm and takes over....

Ali ko 13.......

Paccy v Duran........This is a hard one at 135........With Paccy's southpaw style and power.....Duran's tricks.......Duran perhaps wears him down or Manny goes boom like he did against hatton........

Duran ko 14..........

Mayweather v Leonard...........Whoever leads loses for me.........My guess is it would be Leonard who did struggle with Benitez at times.............

Mayweather close decision..

Well I'd probably back a peak Tyson to decision the seventies version of Ali a little more often than not, in fairness. With his slower legs and propensity to take quite a few shots, we saw how Ali repeatedly struggled against swarmers or aggressive boxers who took the fight to him over and over (Frazier, Norton, Spinks). I think the older Ali would still know a little too much to allow himself to be stopped by Tyson, but I could very possibly see Tyson running out a winner on the cards.

But if we're talking about the version of Ali who could still dance, then I see him stopping a seriously frustrated and tired Tyson in the championship rounds. I think the young version of Ali in his prime had all the ingredients needed to beat Tyson, the very same ones we saw Mike struggle against to differing degrees more than once; superb and consistent jab, ability to move all over the ring, sharp counters etc. As we're presumably talking peak for peak here, I'll make Ali by late TKO, with Tyson still on his feet when the referee jumps in, my official call.

I'd be amazed if Duran failed to stop Pacquiao. Manny's exceptional but he relies almost solely on his engine, power and ambush attacks. Duran's not going to have too much trouble finding him with almost everything he throws and Roberto had such heavy hands at 135. Duran's big weakness was being countered early on but again, that's not really Pacquiao's game. Great fight to watch while it lasts but I see Duran chewing Pacquiao up and spitting him out any time after the mid rounds.

Likewise, given Leonard's wins at 147 against Benitez, Duran and Hearns, I have a bit of a hard time seeing Floyd beating him at that weight. Floyd's talent is definitely comparable to Ray's, but Leonard was a natural Welter through and through, whereas Floyd is a converted litte'un, and he doesn't hit hard enough at the weight to keep Leonard honest like Duran did. Mayweather's got a better defence than Ray, but Leonard was an absolutely extraordinary attacking virtuoso and I just don't think he'd give Mayweather enough time, space or openings to really get a foothold in the fight. No chance of Ray running away with it completely, but something like 116-112 over twelve or 145-140 over fifteen seems about right for me.

Id go with Ali UD over Tyson. He had all the equipment needed to beat Tyson I think. Movement, jab, chin, stamina, ring smarts. He possibly finds himself on the floor in the fight, especially early on. But as it goes on I think he settles and pulls away over the latter half of the fight. Over 15 rounds he might even get a pretty wide UD.
 
I think Duran takes out Pacquiao mid rounds. Pacquiao just isnt physically strong or defensively aware enough to handle Duran. He has the speed to to give Duran problems but I dont think he has the neccessary style to accompany it.
 
I think Leonard beat Mayweather with a few rounds to spare. Forces Mayweather to become overly defensively by mixing up his attacks, using his jab and movement and taking control of the fight.
 
Id be really interested to see how match ups would fare between some of the early greats pre the Walker laws and more modern rivals to really see if boxing has moved on, back or similar standards etc.
 
Wilde v Lopez
Greb v Ward
Attell v Morales
Dixon v Rigondeaux
McGovern v Canizales
Johnson v Holmes
Jeffries v Klitschko
Fitzsimmons v Monzon
Gans v Duran
etc

Ali - Frazier, in 1967 or 68. Would love to know if Joe could have still got Ali before his exile and robbed him of that fraction of speed. The only style that beats a prime Ali is a relentless, high pressure, high punch output.

Whitaker - Mayweather, at 135. This fight may suck, but I hope it would prove my theory that Whitaker's unconventional style could overcome Floyd.

SSR v RJJ . The greatest of all time against the most talented of all time.

Ali vs Tyson, easy Ali win for me. First of all Ali wouldn't be intimidated by Tyson which was a huge advantage Tyson had I've embody of his opponents. Secondly I dont think Tyson, for all his power, would be able to get a quick stoppage. Even if Ali gets caught he is physically very durable and has a great chin. He can also tie Tyson up and take some steam out of him. Thirdly there probabaly isn't a better 15 round heavyweight than Ali, he can take huge amounts of punishments and still fight back at a very high tempo. Tyson is built for power, and after the first few rounds he does grow tired and does lose his zip. The minute he tires Ali would step it up, make him miss and make him pay and will force a late stoppage

Duran vs Pac would be a war but one that Duran will start to dominate after a couple of rounds. I don't expect a hatton type blowout, and Duran is the stronger and hits harder. Pac can be hit and has always seemed vulnerable to the body. Duran will take a few but his defence is a tad underrated and I feel he will get him on the ropes and ground him down. Over 12 Pac may make it to the ell agter being decked once, over 15 Duran stops him late

Floyd vs Leonard, another were I only see one winner. I think it will be cagey but Leonard can do more as he is the bigger man with more power. He could outbox Floyd too. Floyd struggled with the handspeed of Mosley, Judah and DLH and none of those are as good as Leonard. Floyd doesn't have the power either to keep Leonard off him if Leonard goes looking for a KO like he did against Hearns. Floyd's shoulder roll is vulnerable to an orthodox jab and if he lays on the ropes, Leonard will throw combo's that while may not do much damage but will look impressive

Ali close points
Duran close points

I find mayweather Leonard the toughest to call. I agree with truss that Leonard would lead and get countered, but as chris said, srl is the more natural at the weight and has an attacking arsenal floyd hasn't seen. Both are smart and can fight to a plan, both can adapt. I err to Leonard as he proved himself able to find a little extra in the super fights. Mayweather possibly could too... He just hasn't had the competition. Real tough one.

Ali Frazier in 67 is a good call. 

Pryor Duran, almost could have happened and would have been a cracker, I'd like to have seen Pryor mayweather too.

Hagler monzon

Sanchez Chavez arguello round robin

Ali, Duran and Leonard all by late stoppage.

It's predictable, but if I was going to match Robinson with anyone it'd probably be the other Sugar Ray at Welter. Fighting Jones at Middleweight, I suspect he's giving away one too many advantages - Robinson was more consistent at Welter and he and Leonard are almost certainly the two finest fighters to have graced that weight class in terms of their abilities.

Basically the definition of a pick 'em, though Robinson's chances are improved if he gets a lenient referee! He was a dirty bleeder when he wanted to be - even Fritzie Zivic, often cited as the dirtiest fighter of the lot, expressed his admiration at Robinson's ability to foul and get away with it, and of course there was the farce / disgrace of the Luc Van Dam fight which tends to be airbrushed out when people talk about Robinson - so if he starts roughhousing Leonard and not being cautioned, there's a chance that Leonard could fall in to the trap he did against Duran and start fighting with a bit too much emotion, which would play in to Robinson's hands. But then again, Leonard outscoring him is just as easy to see.

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:Ali vs Tyson, easy Ali win for me. First of all Ali wouldn't be intimidated by Tyson which was a huge advantage Tyson had I've embody of his opponents. Secondly I dont think Tyson, for all his power, would be able to get a quick stoppage. Even if Ali gets caught he is physically very durable and has a great chin. He can also tie Tyson up and take some steam out of him. Thirdly there probabaly isn't a better 15 round heavyweight than Ali, he can take huge amounts of punishments and still fight back at a very high tempo. Tyson is built for power, and after the first few rounds he does grow tired and does lose his zip. The minute he tires Ali would step it up, make him miss and make him pay and will force a late stoppage

Duran vs Pac would be a war but one that Duran will start to dominate after a couple of rounds. I don't expect a hatton type blowout, and Duran is the stronger and hits harder. Pac can be hit and has always seemed vulnerable to the body. Duran will take a few but his defence is a tad underrated and I feel he will get him on the ropes and ground him down. Over 12 Pac may make it to the ell agter being decked once, over 15 Duran stops him late

Floyd vs Leonard, another were I only see one winner. I think it will be cagey but Leonard can do more as he is the bigger man with more power. He could outbox Floyd too. Floyd struggled with the handspeed of Mosley, Judah and DLH and none of those are as good as Leonard. Floyd doesn't have the power either to keep Leonard off him if Leonard goes looking for a KO like he did against Hearns. Floyd's shoulder roll is vulnerable to an orthodox jab and if he lays on the ropes, Leonard will throw combo's that while may not do much damage but will look impressive

Nobody beats a prime Tyson easily Mate....Come on!!

Ali decisions Tyson widely becoming more and more dominant later on.

Duran Mullers Pacquiao catching him with the right hand over and over again, roughing him up and bullying him to force a late stoppage.

Leonard pumps out that jab with any of a hook/cross/uppercut behind it a hundred million times and catches mayweather enough to take it by 3ish rounds. Gets Smacked a few times for his troubles but not enough for FMJ to take control


Ali decisions Frazier with a few Hairy moments amidst general comfort in 67

Think people are under selling Manny here.......Shown that he's tough and Duran wasn't sugar ray leonard..........

Duran is up against a ssouthpaw as well....

Floyd struggled with the handspeed of Mosley and Oscar!!! OMG!!!
 
Somebody call uncle Roger this guy dont know sheeet about boxing!!
 
Shane "I landed one punch" Mosley troubled Floyd with his handpeed??? WTF?? He got SCHOOLED and beat to the punch ALL NIGHT.
 
Oscar troubled Mayweather with his handpeed???  Are you Tom Kaczmarek?? Oscar couldnt lay a GLOVE on Floyd. Handspeed my azzz. He was swinging like a fool while he burned himself out and Mayweathers DEFENCE made him MISS easily.
 
Thanks for the laugh hombre

Leonard never fought anybody with Mayweather's gifts..........and vice versa......

Benitez did have success against Leonard and Mayweather is better than him....

Too close to call........

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:Ali vs Tyson, easy Ali win for me. First of all Ali wouldn't be intimidated by Tyson which was a huge advantage Tyson had I've embody of his opponents. Secondly I dont think Tyson, for all his power, would be able to get a quick stoppage. Even if Ali gets caught he is physically very durable and has a great chin. He can also tie Tyson up and take some steam out of him. Thirdly there probabaly isn't a better 15 round heavyweight than Ali, he can take huge amounts of punishments and still fight back at a very high tempo. Tyson is built for power, and after the first few rounds he does grow tired and does lose his zip. The minute he tires Ali would step it up, make him miss and make him pay and will force a late stoppage

Duran vs Pac would be a war but one that Duran will start to dominate after a couple of rounds. I don't expect a hatton type blowout, and Duran is the stronger and hits harder. Pac can be hit and has always seemed vulnerable to the body. Duran will take a few but his defence is a tad underrated and I feel he will get him on the ropes and ground him down. Over 12 Pac may make it to the ell agter being decked once, over 15 Duran stops him late

Floyd vs Leonard, another were I only see one winner. I think it will be cagey but Leonard can do more as he is the bigger man with more power. He could outbox Floyd too. Floyd struggled with the handspeed of Mosley, Judah and DLH and none of those are as good as Leonard. Floyd doesn't have the power either to keep Leonard off him if Leonard goes looking for a KO like he did against Hearns. Floyd's shoulder roll is vulnerable to an orthodox jab and if he lays on the ropes, Leonard will throw combo's that while may not do much damage but will look impressive

Nobody beats a prime Tyson easily Mate....Come on!!

Didnt meant like that, meant that its an easy one for me to call. Ali would have to suck it up for the first half of the fight but I can't see him getting stopped and I can't see him not dominating Tyson for the second half of the fight

Okay okay.......

Langford vs Klitschko (vitali)

Robinson vs Hagler

De La Hoya vs Alvarez........

Truss give me some insight as you knoe alot about the past in the sport....

Vitali kills Langford

Hagler beats Robbo

Right now DLH beats Alvarez but we havent seen the best of that kid.

Think he's calling you old truss

Its probably Truss Jr asking for a new game

ShahenshahG wrote:

Hagler beats Robbo

Are you serious ??

Yes.

YDKSAB wrote:Floyd struggled with the handspeed of Mosley and Oscar!!! OMG!!!
 
Somebody call uncle Roger this guy dont know sheeet about boxing!!
 
Shane "I landed one punch" Mosley troubled Floyd with his handpeed??? WTF?? He got SCHOOLED and beat to the punch ALL NIGHT.
 
Oscar troubled Mayweather with his handpeed???  Are you Tom Kaczmarek?? Oscar couldnt lay a GLOVE on Floyd. Handspeed my azzz. He was swinging like a fool while he burned himself out and Mayweathers DEFENCE made him MISS easily.
 
Thanks for the laugh hombre

What a cockknocker

Speaking of Roy, one fight I'd love to see him in would be against Tunney at 175 (I'm sure Az will be all over this one when he sees it).

Due to their styles I can see it being a slightly awkward fight that never really comes to the boil, a little bit like Jones-Hopkins I, but I'd also see it as a very interesting and close one.

I tend to think that, due to the fact that he was so different to just about anyone else and incredibly unorthodox, Jones has the edge over just about anyone in history between 160 and 175 in a single, one off fight. Amazing as Jones' speed and punching was, the old warhorse in McCallum showed that he, like anyone else, could potentially be shut down to a degree and rendered much less effective against a canny, clever defensive boxer, and Tunney's defence and ring generalship was outstanding, so I don't see Jones nicking it by any more than a couple of points or so.

But as I said, I think it might be asking a lot for anyone to be able to solve the Jones puzzle inside twelve of fifteen rounds, even someone as calculating as Gene. It was Greb's speed and unorthodoxy, basically impossible to prepare for if you haven't already fought that same man as there was hardly anyone else around to fight who could emulate that style, which bewildered Tunney and left him taking a severe beating in their first fight and, while I think Gene's underrated power keeps Roy from totally cutting loose, Jones still outspeeds and confuses Tunney just enough to earn a narrow points win.

However, Tunney had outstanding adaptation skills and seldom fell for the same tricks in the ring twice, and I reckon that it might take more than one fight against Jones for us to see the best of him. I can imagine a scenario whereby Jones edges the first fight on a close one, but Tunney maybe ends up going 2-1 against him, winning the next two by similarly small margins.

Tunney had a fantastic chin and a classical defence, whereas trying to land cleanly on Jones with any regularity was nigh-on impossible, so I see it being a distance fight almost every time, but I feel fairly sure that they'd all be very close encounters.

I'd like to see Moore vs Jones - see if the wisdom and experience can overcome superb natural ability. Save that - Hearns vs Jones - Its either a early blowout or a fine matchup. I might give Hearns the edge despite his durability Issues.

Moore got hit a bit too much for my liking when it comes to putting him in against someone like Jones, Shah. I think there's a reasonable chance that Jones could maybe, just maybe, get Archie out of there early. If it goes longer then I agree it's a cracking match up, and Moore wouldn't have to land all that many shots on Roy to put him down and out, either - certainly less than Tunney would have to. I'd favour Jones personally but Moore is a very live underdog in that one.

Fair point, although I think Moore could take a shot and mitigate most of the damage from the shots that did land crisply. I think Roy is one special fighter and that we'd probably have to comb the past and the future to find a handful of fighters who'd start as favourites - just think someone with experience would have better chance (apart from Freakishness ala Hearns)

I'd also like to see someone like Tua take on a past great so we can see what a above average heavy with weight on his side can do against Marciano to see where the limits lie.

Hearns v Mccallum v Robinson. One of these guys was the greatest 154 of all.

Dempsey v Foreman.

Saddler v Morales.

88Chris05 wrote:Speaking of Roy, one fight I'd love to see him in would be against Tunney at 175 (I'm sure Az will be all over this one when he sees it).

Due to their styles I can see it being a slightly awkward fight that never really comes to the boil, a little bit like Jones-Hopkins I, but I'd also see it as a very interesting and close one.

I tend to think that, due to the fact that he was so different to just about anyone else and incredibly unorthodox, Jones has the edge over just about anyone in history between 160 and 175 in a single, one off fight. Amazing as Jones' speed and punching was, the old warhorse in McCallum showed that he, like anyone else, could potentially be shut down to a degree and rendered much less effective against a canny, clever defensive boxer, and Tunney's defence and ring generalship was outstanding, so I don't see Jones nicking it by any more than a couple of points or so.

But as I said, I think it might be asking a lot for anyone to be able to solve the Jones puzzle inside twelve of fifteen rounds, even someone as calculating as Gene. It was Greb's speed and unorthodoxy, basically impossible to prepare for if you haven't already fought that same man as there was hardly anyone else around to fight who could emulate that style, which bewildered Tunney and left him taking a severe beating in their first fight and, while I think Gene's underrated power keeps Roy from totally cutting loose, Jones still outspeeds and confuses Tunney just enough to earn a narrow points win.

However, Tunney had outstanding adaptation skills and seldom fell for the same tricks in the ring twice, and I reckon that it might take more than one fight against Jones for us to see the best of him. I can imagine a scenario whereby Jones edges the first fight on a close one, but Tunney maybe ends up going 2-1 against him, winning the next two by similarly small margins.

Tunney had a fantastic chin and a classical defence, whereas trying to land cleanly on Jones with any regularity was nigh-on impossible, so I see it being a distance fight almost every time, but I feel fairly sure that they'd all be very close encounters.

Jones beats Tunney?  Pffft, mods shouldn't be allowed to WUM like this - you're just trying to entice Coxy out of exile, Chris!  

Actually agree that Jones befuddles most fighters first time round - but if anyone is going to work him out in rematches, it's Tunney.  In a three fight series I think each wins at least one out of the first two, but wouldn't necessarily rule Jones out in the deciding rubber.

Tunney was decked off a crude brawler in Dempsey so I imagine Jones jr is a breeze..I put Tunney in the same camp as Conn....Skilled ahead of his time for sure but really as skilled as Jones jr or Hopkins.........

Sorry I don't think so.....Great boxer as he was.

I don't really see Hopkins pulling out any moves that Tunney couldn't, Truss. I'd say that there are a lot of similarities between them, in fact; both great at adapting and making their opponent fight their kind of fight, Hopkins the slightly better inside fighter, but Tunney arguably the better mover and threw a lot more combinations than B-Hop.

See, I tend to be a bit perplexed when the tag 'years ahead of their time' gets thrown at the likes of Corbett, Gans etc when, for me, it was Tunney who fits the bill better than anyone. Although the basis is there to be seen, the overall styles of people like Corbett, Gans (and Johnson, for that matter) would still not really be transferable in to today's game. Relatively speaking, Tunney didn't emerge all that long after these guys, but his economy of movement, accuracy, fundamentals etc were light years ahead of them, I think.

The first Tunney-Dempsey fight has recently been added on YouTube, rehashed and put together in much better quality (well, about 70% of the fight, anyway) and Tunney's hand speed and footwork looks good enough to me to still cause plenty of good fighters problems nowadays.

It's tricky trying to decide when, in the majority of cases, boxers began to widely show styles and skills that could be implemented successfully in today's game, but I think Tunney was one of the first ones there.

You might not see it but grainy footage of the early 2oth century is hardly likely to prove your point....

We know Jones jr fought Tunney types..........But who was around with Jones silky skills back then ??

Well I actually agree with that last comment, hence why I said, in a single one-off fight, I'd go with Jones. Impossible to prepare for and, Greb aside, Tunney would never have faced anything remotely similar to Roy. On the other hand, Jones did face classical, stand-up boxers like Tunney, albeit none of them were as consistent or good!

No qualms with me on that point.

My point is that I think Tunney showed that he was defensively sound enough (you bring up Gene being decked by Dempsey, I'll bring up Jones being floored and clearly shaken up a little by Del Valle), as well having the ability to adapt to unorthodox styles (ie, how he gradually earned the upper hand against the Windmill) to keep the fight close and possibly have enough answers in a return to reverse the verdict.

Physically, Jones was something else, but I don't think his boxing brain was on that same level. Against the majority of Middleweights, Super-Middleweights and Light-Hevyweights in history, he wouldn't neeed to be all that hot in that latter department to win, in all fairness, but great as he was he's not so great that his physical talents alone could help him dominate against absolutely everyone.

I would like to hear any opinion on Ward vs Jones. Im interested to see who people on here think beats Ward and how.

Probably by punching him in the face Joey.

Jones vs Ward is a rather easy win for Jones - just like the way he handled the Burger King.

MARCIANO VS FRAZER......NOT A BACKWARD STEP........ DEMOLITION!!!

superflyweight wrote:

YDKSAB wrote:Floyd struggled with the handspeed of Mosley and Oscar!!! OMG!!!
 
Somebody call uncle Roger this guy dont know sheeet about boxing!!
 
Shane "I landed one punch" Mosley troubled Floyd with his handpeed??? WTF?? He got SCHOOLED and beat to the punch ALL NIGHT.
 
Oscar troubled Mayweather with his handpeed???  Are you Tom Kaczmarek?? Oscar couldnt lay a GLOVE on Floyd. Handspeed my azzz. He was swinging like a fool while he burned himself out and Mayweathers DEFENCE made him MISS easily.
 
Thanks for the laugh hombre

What a cockknocker

Cockknocker??? Bro are you 12 years old???

YDKSAB wrote:

superflyweight wrote:

YDKSAB wrote:Floyd struggled with the handspeed of Mosley and Oscar!!! OMG!!!
 
Somebody call uncle Roger this guy dont know sheeet about boxing!!
 
Shane "I landed one punch" Mosley troubled Floyd with his handpeed??? WTF?? He got SCHOOLED and beat to the punch ALL NIGHT.
 
Oscar troubled Mayweather with his handpeed???  Are you Tom Kaczmarek?? Oscar couldnt lay a GLOVE on Floyd. Handspeed my azzz. He was swinging like a fool while he burned himself out and Mayweathers DEFENCE made him MISS easily.
 
Thanks for the laugh hombre

What a cockknocker

Cockknocker??? Bro are you 12 years old???

You're the one calling someone bro.

Ali could be beated, Fraiser and Norton showed that it could be done.  The youthful rampaging Tyson could have overpowered Ali.  It's not impossible for me to see that.

Duran ko's Paquiao.

Leonard stops Mayweather late.