Pacquiao vs Marquez to be held at catchweight 143-145lbs

by D4thincarnation Mon May 09, 2011 8:58 am

First topic message reminder :

People were calling for this fight to be held at catchweight and they have been calling for this fight.

But now that it looks like it will happen at the catchweight people were calling for, will the boxing public be happy?

http://www.boxingscene.com/sources-pacquiao-marquez-held-catch-weight--38989

Sources in Mexico are reporting that a third meeting between Manny Pacquiao and Juan Manuel Marquez will likely have a catch-weight in place. Three weeks ago Marquez received an offer to face Pacquiao in a fall trilogy meeting. Marquez had a problem with some of the itemized terms that were listed in the offer. Pacquiao's promoter, Top Rank, is going to issue a new offer to Marquez on Monday. The revised offer will include several changes in areas that bothered Marquez. The catch-weight, reportedly, is going to fall between 143-145-pounds. Pacquiao has weighed between 144-145 for his last four welterweight ring appearances. Marquez has weighed between 133.5-134 for his last two lightweight title defenses. The fight could take place on November 5 or 12 in Las Vegas

What do you make of this news.

Should be a great fight.

by azania Mon May 09, 2011 2:02 pm

manos de piedra wrote:I am probably more concerned about the timing of the fight than the weight issue to be honest.

I am reluctant to place too much emphasis on the Mayweather fight because I think it was as much a case of Mayweather just being better all round than Marquez. I dont think the outcome would be much different at 135 had Mayweather been able to comfortably make the weight. It was also pretty low for Maywether to ignore the catchweight limit which was a pre medidated move in my opinion as I refuse to believe a guy who has always made 147 comfortably and walks around only a few pounds above his fighting weight could fail to make 145. I would like to say Marquez have an interim fight at the 140 mark against another fighter to judge accordingly.

The bigger issue for me is that I just suspect Marquez has been sliding somewhat. Hes getting old and while I think he still retains the class to beat guys like Katsidas and Diaz, I just dont think he has it to take on Pacquiao anymore. The timing has shifted just to favour Pacquiao as the younger, more in form fighter. Reminds me a bit of Duran v Leonard III. Even if you feel there is unfinished business from the first 2 encounters I think that ship has sailed and now everything favours Pacquiao.

However it sems like there are too many people here with an agenda that will use the fight to further their own personal agenda/issue. I can see why the Marquez fight makes financial sense and Pacquiao doesnt have a great deal of options. People are going to keep creating false hopes to beat them when I think its become reasonably apparent now that the two of them are a fair distance ahead of the pack at Welterweight or below. The only way I can see either of them losing (if they dont fight each other) is if they simply step up too much in weight and if thats the case then you have to ask yourself "what does it really prove?".

That I believe captures it all in a nutshell. I was alarmed at the relative ease in which Kats managed to hit JMM with. He is on the slide and unfortunately father time is catching up with him hence Manny is picking this fight now.

The weight issue is a sideshow wrt thje facct that J<< weighed in at 148 in his last fight. He can weigh in less that 143 at weigh in time and rehydrate and still be close to Manny come fight night. What is does do though is gove more ammo to those who question Manny's status post LW.

by The Galveston Giant Mon May 09, 2011 2:03 pm

Good news sweet pea, also i would love to see Khan Judah.

by sweet_pea Mon May 09, 2011 2:07 pm

it'll be a great fight. khan just fought a southpaw and didnt look too good. judah is world class, i sense some fireworks

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Mon May 09, 2011 2:12 pm

I think Kahn v Judah will be a good fight. Think Judah might just nick it though. He is still very quick and can punch. Khan has all the tools to be great but I don't dee him using them enough.

by The Galveston Giant Mon May 09, 2011 2:13 pm

sweet_pea wrote:it'll be a great fight. khan just fought a southpaw and didnt look too good. judah is world class, i sense some fireworks

Yeah as long as Judah brings his A game would be really interesting, was impressed with Judah's performance last time out, hope it gets made.

by The Galveston Giant Mon May 09, 2011 2:15 pm

prettyboykev wrote:I think Kahn v Judah will be a good fight. Think Judah might just nick it though. He is still very quick and can punch. Khan has all the tools to be great but I don't dee him using them enough.

Would have Judah going into the fight as a slight favourite myself Kev, going by Khans last performance anyway.

by Lumbering_Jack Mon May 09, 2011 2:16 pm

Judah is a bit of a cop out really, especially after all the noise Khan was making about fighting Bradley.

Lets not forget Judah has struggled with some very average fighters recently, much worse than Khan.

by D4thincarnation Mon May 09, 2011 2:17 pm

Lumbering_Jack wrote:Judah is a bit of a cop out really, especially after all the noise Khan was making about fighting Bradley.

Lets not forget Judah has struggled with some very average fighters recently, much worse than Khan.

Bradley doesn't want it.

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Mon May 09, 2011 2:17 pm

Think he might be having a bit of a swan song to his career. He seems really fired up. He just wasn't a WW. He is a LWW. He is now trained by Pernell Whittaker who is working hard on his defence. He still has the speed hope Khan isn't looking at it as a stop gap for before the Bradley fight. He can't afford to look past Judah.

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Mon May 09, 2011 2:19 pm

D4thincarnation wrote:
Lumbering_Jack wrote:Judah is a bit of a cop out really, especially after all the noise Khan was making about fighting Bradley.

Lets not forget Judah has struggled with some very average fighters recently, much worse than Khan.

Bradley doesn't want it.

That's not true Bradley has a guaranteed $1.3m from HBO even if he fought me or you. Why would he not have an easy one then fight Khan and make the same again. I don't like it but it makes perfect sense. No ducking going on their mate sorry.

Pretty similar to what Khan tried to do with McCloskey but it came back and butt him on the bum financially.

by D4thincarnation Mon May 09, 2011 2:33 pm

prettyboykev wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:
Lumbering_Jack wrote:Judah is a bit of a cop out really, especially after all the noise Khan was making about fighting Bradley.

Lets not forget Judah has struggled with some very average fighters recently, much worse than Khan.

Bradley doesn't want it.

That's not true Bradley has a guaranteed $1.3m from HBO even if he fought me or you. Why would he not have an easy one then fight Khan and make the same again. I don't like it but it makes perfect sense. No ducking going on their mate sorry.

Pretty similar to what Khan tried to do with McCloskey but it came back and butt him on the bum financially.

Like I said he doesn't want it, you are just stating the reason.

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Mon May 09, 2011 2:37 pm

D4thincarnation wrote:
prettyboykev wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:
Lumbering_Jack wrote:Judah is a bit of a cop out really, especially after all the noise Khan was making about fighting Bradley.

Lets not forget Judah has struggled with some very average fighters recently, much worse than Khan.

Bradley doesn't want it.

That's not true Bradley has a guaranteed $1.3m from HBO even if he fought me or you. Why would he not have an easy one then fight Khan and make the same again. I don't like it but it makes perfect sense. No ducking going on their mate sorry.

Pretty similar to what Khan tried to do with McCloskey but it came back and butt him on the bum financially.

Like I said he doesn't want it, you are just stating the reason.

He does want it just after his next fight. The exact same thing Khan did with McCloskey.

by Lumbering_Jack Mon May 09, 2011 3:42 pm

If Kan offered Bradley some proper money instead of the piffly amount he is quoting this fight could well happen.

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Mon May 09, 2011 3:44 pm

Bradley would still knock it back unless it was crazy money he is guaranteed $1.3m regardless the opponent.

by BALTIMORA Mon May 09, 2011 5:01 pm

D4thincarnation wrote:
prettyboykev wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:
Lumbering_Jack wrote:Judah is a bit of a cop out really, especially after all the noise Khan was making about fighting Bradley.

Lets not forget Judah has struggled with some very average fighters recently, much worse than Khan.

Bradley doesn't want it.

That's not true Bradley has a guaranteed $1.3m from HBO even if he fought me or you. Why would he not have an easy one then fight Khan and make the same again. I don't like it but it makes perfect sense. No ducking going on their mate sorry.

Pretty similar to what Khan tried to do with McCloskey but it came back and butt him on the bum financially.

Like I said he doesn't want it, you are just stating the reason.

Same as Mayweather wants the Pacquiao fight. He's just waiting on some blood tests.

by Scottrf Tue May 10, 2011 5:14 am

Looks like Bradley has signed a deal with TR and will fight Pacquiao anyway.

by coxy0001 Tue May 10, 2011 5:22 am

Scottrf wrote:Looks like Bradley has signed a deal with TR and will fight Pacquiao anyway.

Really? From where?

If he has it's a bit of a shame that Bradley has done that, we're now at the point that if you want a pop at Pac you have to sign your soul to the devil aka Arum.

Personally i wouldn't give two hoots if the old git popped his clogs tomorrow, his deputy isn't anywhere near as Hitler esque. Sounds harsh, but the guy doesn't give two s**ts about our great sport so why should i care about him? He's only in it for the money nowadays, has admitted he couldn't care about the future of the sport.

by Scottrf Tue May 10, 2011 5:25 am

It was only rumours and looks like Bradley has denied it now anyway.

by Rowley Tue May 10, 2011 5:27 am

Bit harsh coxy but you are right in a way, Arum is as self serving as any other promoter, the idea any are better than the rest is a pipe dream. Hate how he whinges about the relationship Golden Boy have with HBO and how he took Manny over to Showtime because of their link up with CBS and how it was some massive act of altruism for the fans. Is absolute nonsense, he did it because he was sulking as he is no longer pet promoter at HBO. Didn't see him whinging when he was flavour of the month over there.

Does stick in the craw a little if it is true that fighters seem to have to sign with Top Rank to get a shot at Manny, can appreciate Arum is going to try and maximise the earnings on his golden child but this is not good for the sport as decent fighters could well be left on the outside, which doesn't seem fair.

by kevchadders Tue May 10, 2011 7:18 am

D4thincarnation wrote:
Scottrf wrote:Don't think it makes any difference, but would have prefered it to be at 140 so people would have less ammo.

I think if Arum could get a vacant title to be on the line it could be there, but I agree with you it makes little difference.

Dont see a title being that important to Arum. Its more about the money he can make off Manny. In fact i think it would sell better if they did do the fight as 140, as some would give JMM more of a chance then.

by **oxring** Tue May 10, 2011 9:55 am

Some posters on here really need to mature and take an objective look at life.

Why the hell the number 1 WW in the world should have his fight weights dictated by the lesser draw is beyond me. What dreamland is this? And whilst manny could make 140 - why would he? Has that EVER been how boxing has worked? Answer: no

So what's the alternative? To not fight Marquez? Well on the one hand you criticize him for not rematching a guy he has beaten twice. Yet on the other you want fight 3 not to happen?

And in terms of weights:
Manny weighs in 145, fights at 145
Marquez weighs in 135 fights 143

So that 143 is his full hydrated weight. And as any idiot can see 145 is mannys full rehydrated weight. Not a world of difference there.

by Scottrf Tue May 10, 2011 10:01 am

oxring wrote:Some posters on here really need to mature and take an objective look at life.

Why the hell the number 1 WW in the world should have his fight weights dictated by the lesser draw is beyond me. What dreamland is this? And whilst manny could make 140 - why would he? Has that EVER been how boxing has worked? Answer: no

So what's the alternative? To not fight Marquez? Well on the one hand you criticize him for not rematching a guy he has beaten twice. Yet on the other you want fight 3 not to happen?

And in terms of weights:
Manny weighs in 145, fights at 145
Marquez weighs in 135 fights 143

So that 143 is his full hydrated weight. And as any idiot can see 145 is mannys full rehydrated weight. Not a world of difference there.

But...uhh...catchweights. Weight drained. Shot...leftovers.

End of.

End of.

End of.

by D4thincarnation Tue May 10, 2011 10:02 am

oxring wrote:Some posters on here really need to mature and take an objective look at life.

Why the hell the number 1 WW in the world should have his fight weights dictated by the lesser draw is beyond me. What dreamland is this? And whilst manny could make 140 - why would he? Has that EVER been how boxing has worked? Answer: no

So what's the alternative? To not fight Marquez? Well on the one hand you criticize him for not rematching a guy he has beaten twice. Yet on the other you want fight 3 not to happen?

And in terms of weights:
Manny weighs in 145, fights at 145
Marquez weighs in 135 fights 143

So that 143 is his full hydrated weight. And as any idiot can see 145 is mannys full rehydrated weight. Not a world of difference there.

Marqeuz would not have to drain himself in the week up leading to the fight, you are looking at Manny and Marquez both weighing around 144-147lbs on the night.

If it was at 140lbs it would not make a difference, but this will only happen if there is a title on the line.

by Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn Tue May 10, 2011 10:05 am

D4thincarnation wrote:
oxring wrote:Some posters on here really need to mature and take an objective look at life.

Why the hell the number 1 WW in the world should have his fight weights dictated by the lesser draw is beyond me. What dreamland is this? And whilst manny could make 140 - why would he? Has that EVER been how boxing has worked? Answer: no

So what's the alternative? To not fight Marquez? Well on the one hand you criticize him for not rematching a guy he has beaten twice. Yet on the other you want fight 3 not to happen?

And in terms of weights:
Manny weighs in 145, fights at 145
Marquez weighs in 135 fights 143

So that 143 is his full hydrated weight. And as any idiot can see 145 is mannys full rehydrated weight. Not a world of difference there.

Marqeuz would not have to drain himself in the week up leading to the fight, you are looking at Manny and Marquez both weighing around 144-147lbs on the night.

If it was at 140lbs it would not make a difference, but this will only happen if there is a title on the line.

I believe there is a 145lbs WBC Diamond Belt floating around.

Is that never going to be fought for?

by coxy0001 Tue May 10, 2011 10:36 am

Manny weighs in 145, fights at 145
Marquez weighs in 135 fights 143

So that 143 is his full hydrated weight. And as any idiot can see 145 is mannys full rehydrated weight. Not a world of difference there.

Why did Marquez "Bulk up" to 142lbs for the FMJ fight rather than simply get himself down to 135 then rehyrate up? And he looked podgy/out of shape coming in at 142 bulked up but looks good down at 135 before getting fluids back into himself?

Does the above finally reveal what the difference in size of them is? Again, it's not rocket science:

Marquez one size @ 135
Marquex same size after rehydrating

Marquez different size when weighing 142 after bulking up

Marquez naturally smaller after rehydrating

IT ISNT EFFING DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by Rowley Tue May 10, 2011 10:39 am

IT ISNT EFFING DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
______________________________________________________

Clearly because it is lost on me and I'm really, really clever. If both fighters are at their best in the ring at around 142-145 I really can't see a problem with the fight.

by Scottrf Tue May 10, 2011 10:39 am

If he bulked up his fight night weight would be higher vs Mayweather. Do you have it?

by Scottrf Tue May 10, 2011 10:42 am

You do understand it jeff don't worry. Fight night weight is their size, weight on the scales just shows how much they have dehydrated.

by Rowley Tue May 10, 2011 10:48 am

Surely then if a guy weighs about 142 in the ring he will not be massively disadvantaged by going in at catchweight of around that weight because he will not have to worry about cutting down to make the weight 24 hours below. The only time I could see it being a problem is if he is fighting a natural or big welter who would potentally weigh in on the scales at 145 and then chuck another 10lbs on in the 24 hours before the fight meaning he would carry a significant weight advantage come fight time, as most who follow these things assure me Manny does not do this I genuinely cannot see the problem

by Scottrf Tue May 10, 2011 10:48 am

Exactly.

by coxy0001 Tue May 10, 2011 10:49 am

Two scenarios, and this really isn't hard to understand lads so try and chuffing stay with me:

Marquez weighs 135 as a LW, rehydrates to 144 and looks fine but not much bigger

Marquez weighs 142 and rehydrates to 144 and looks overweigth, out of shape and loses all his timing. He bulked up to cope with the extra size of Mayweather.

Now why did he bulk up if he was going to be the same size he would be if rehydrating from 135? Can you answer me that

The answer is clear - BECAUSE HE'S SMALLER AT 135 AS REHYDRATING ISNT THE SAME AS PUTTING ON lbs of MUSCLE!

Actually i don't give a fig anymore, is no-one here intelligent enough to realise that Manny and Marquez aren't the same size? As otherwise why did Marquez put on 8lbs of extra bulk prior to FMJ and LOOK AWFUL? Yet Manny is able to carry 145 with consumate easy and LOOKS GREAT AT THE WEIGHT?

Apologies for caps lock, but just thought i'd make sure the big points were clear as you seem to be missing them.

by D4thincarnation Tue May 10, 2011 10:50 am

coxy0001 wrote:
Manny weighs in 145, fights at 145
Marquez weighs in 135 fights 143

So that 143 is his full hydrated weight. And as any idiot can see 145 is mannys full rehydrated weight. Not a world of difference there.

Why did Marquez "Bulk up" to 142lbs for the FMJ fight rather than simply get himself down to 135 then rehyrate up? And he looked podgy/out of shape coming in at 142 bulked up but looks good down at 135 before getting fluids back into himself?

Does the above finally reveal what the difference in size of them is? Again, it's not rocket science:

Marquez one size @ 135
Marquex same size after rehydrating

Marquez different size when weighing 142 after bulking up

Marquez naturally smaller after rehydrating

IT ISNT EFFING DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Marquez has grown into the weight since then.

by Scottrf Tue May 10, 2011 10:51 am

coxy0001 wrote:Two scenarios, and this really isn't hard to understand lads so try and chuffing stay with me:

Marquez weighs 135 as a LW, rehydrates to 144 and looks fine but not much bigger

Marquez weighs 142 and rehydrates to 144 and looks overweigth, out of shape and loses all his timing. He bulked up to cope with the extra size of Mayweather.

Now why did he bulk up if he was going to be the same size he would be if rehydrating from 135? Can you answer me that

The answer is clear - BECAUSE HE'S SMALLER AT 135 AS REHYDRATING ISNT THE SAME AS PUTTING ON lbs of MUSCLE!

Actually i don't give a f**k anymore, is no-one here intelligent enough to realise that Manny and Marquez aren't the same size? As otherwise why did Marquez put on 8lbs of extra bulk prior to FMJ and LOOK AWFUL? Yet Manny is able to carry 145 with consumate easy and LOOKS GREAT AT THE WEIGHT?

Apologies for caps lock, but just thought i'd make sure the big points were clear as you seem to be missing them.

One time he only dehydrated himself by 2 pounds rather than 9 is the only difference.

If he is 145lbs in the ring it's the same as any other 145lbs unless he is dehydrated when he enters, which you would assume isn't the case as there is no limit on ring weights.

You haven't provided his fight night weight vs Mayweather.

by Scottrf Tue May 10, 2011 10:52 am

I don't know how you think he can be 145lbs on the night both times but bigger in one scenario than the other. It's baffling.

by coxy0001 Tue May 10, 2011 10:53 am

rowley wrote:Surely then if a guy weighs about 142 in the ring he will not be massively disadvantaged by going in at catchweight of around that weight because he will not have to worry about cutting down to make the weight 24 hours below. The only time I could see it being a problem is if he is fighting a natural or big welter who would potentally weigh in on the scales at 145 and then chuck another 10lbs on in the 24 hours before the fight meaning he would carry a significant weight advantage come fight time, as most who follow these things assure me Manny does not do this I genuinely cannot see the problem

Just like MArquez did in the FMJ fight yeah?

And he looked amazing didn't he? Ripped? Toned? Quick? Punches full of zip?

And it's not a case of simply staying hydrated. Pac is on a big high protein diet to keep his weight up, not umpteen bottles of water more than he'd usually consume.

Give up with you guys, feel free to think they're the same size. Because they're not.

Might even email a trainer i know to explain the obvious differences between the 2, then you might listen. I'm done on this subject unless anyone has anything sensible to say.

Marquez would be screwed coming in at 142 because he's already looked s**t at the weight once.

by D4thincarnation Tue May 10, 2011 10:53 am

Who remembers when coxy spent weeks telling everyone that size doesn't matter, it technical skills that matter?

by Scottrf Tue May 10, 2011 10:56 am

144lbs = 144lbs

Unless he's dehydrated or carrying excessive fat in either scenario there can't be any difference.

You haven't provided a ring weight against Mayweather. If he truly bulked up he would be bigger than normal in the ring. That's not hard to understand.

by coxy0001 Tue May 10, 2011 10:58 am

D4thincarnation wrote:Who remembers when coxy spent weeks telling everyone that size doesn't matter, it technical skills that matter?

Fact is i said that weight only comes into it when both guys are of the same ability - the bigger guy will naturally win. When have i said Manny won't win because he's both bigger and better than Marquez?! If FMJ can drop him then what will Pac do now he's bigger by miles than when they last met?

by **88Chris05** Tue May 10, 2011 10:59 am

coxy0001 wrote:Two scenarios, and this really isn't hard to understand lads so try and chuffing stay with me:

Marquez weighs 135 as a LW, rehydrates to 144 and looks fine but not much bigger

So then, if Marquez does tip the scales at 135 lb (which he may well do, and would be entitled to do) and then makes an in-ring weight of, say 143 lb, he'll be only 3 or 4 lb smaller than Pacquiao at the most, going on Pacquiao's recent in-ring weights? So where is the big issue? Have tried to stay away from this subject as a couple of people are getting heated on it, but while I'm not really a supporter of catchweights (I think seventeen different weight divisions is more than enough to not need them anymore), in this case I'm really not too fussed.

The thing is Coxy, you keep working under the assumption that Marquez definitely WILL "bulk himself up" to 143-145 lb through muscle gain. Now if (and it's only an if, until we know better) he does that, then maybe your argument would be a little more understandable. However, there is no guarantee that he will and, if he does learn from the Mayweather experience, he may well choose to weight in at his usual 135 lb or thereabouts, knowing that his actual weight on fight night will be more or less that same as Pacquiao, who doesn't "blow up" as the saying goes between the weigh in and the opening bell. And if Marquez does this, your argument becomes redundant.

I think Marquez is a fairly smart guy, anyway. He'll know that he didn't look good or comfortable with the weight he added for the Mayweather bout, so there's a good chance, to me at least, that he'll weigh in at 135 lb and then rehyrate to 143-145 lb for the fight, where he knows he is excellent, in contrast. Also, for the Mayweather's fight, he'll have known that Mayweather would probably be somewhere around the 155 lb mark on fight night, something which isn't likely to happen with Pacquiao. I'd like to think that Marquez is astute enough to counter this accordingly.

by **HumanWindmill** Tue May 10, 2011 11:00 am

Can we take it down a notch or two ?

by Scottrf Tue May 10, 2011 11:02 am

coxy0001 wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:Who remembers when coxy spent weeks telling everyone that size doesn't matter, it technical skills that matter?
Fact is i said that weight only comes into it when both guys are of the same ability - the bigger guy will naturally win. When have i said Manny won't win because he's both bigger and better than Marquez?! If FMJ can drop him then what will Pac do now he's bigger by miles than when they last met?

145 on the night last time they met. http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306294

He isn't miles bigger now, it's a myth.

by coxy0001 Tue May 10, 2011 11:03 am

Scottrf wrote:144lbs = 144lbs

Unless he's dehydrated or carrying excessive fat in either scenario there can't be any difference.

You haven't provided a ring weight against Mayweather. If he truly bulked up he would be bigger than normal in the ring. That's not hard to understand.

As far as i know FMJ doesn't do ring weights and so his oppo don't have to do one. Feel free to watch the HBO Tale of the tape and get back to me - i can't as i'm at work.

And you just don't get it, do you?

How did Marquez look weighing 142 and rehydrating to say 135? Why did he weight that in the first place? BECUASE HE HAD TO COMPETE WITH THE SIZE OF FMJ

Christ alive

And how does he look when rehydrating from 135 to 145? Much, much better. Why? Because he's trained without having to carry an unnatural X amount of weight through his camp - Proof is in the pudding as Manny complained he felt sluggish etc before Marg so opted to come in lighter and lose lbs. Marquez opted to not lose lbs and went above his natural weight, which is smaller than Manny's natural weight as in an ideal world he'd have burned off 5/6 extra lbs to make 135 etc, whereas Manny is able to keep his at 145 and still be strong as an ox.

Seriously, read the above very, VERY carefully before replying.

by Boxtthis Tue May 10, 2011 11:03 am

Scottrf wrote:If he bulked up his fight night weight would be higher vs Mayweather. Do you have it?

It would be interesting to see what weight JMM was on fight night with Mayweather.

I think perhaps coxy is taking things a bit too simply here:

Fair enough if you think that JMM is a 135 fighter that needs to bulk up to 142-145 (thus making him slow and podgy a la FMJ fight) then yes the argument holds water.

However, this does not explain the supposed evidence that JMM weighed circa 145 for the Katsidis fight (in which he looked back to his old self).

So on one hand you’ve got a muscled-up, bulky, slow Marquez (weighing in at 142 and presumably fighting at around 145(?)) in the Mayweather fight and on the other you’ve got a sharp, back-to-normal Marquez weighing in at 135 but fighting at around 145 in the Katsidis fight.

Which one is it? Because it's not clear to me (and to others by the looks of it). Surely you can see the source of confusion here Coxy? It’s hardly as simple as JMM = LW and Manny = WW

Even when you look at Manny, he’s not a WW in the traditional sense. He weighs in at 145 and fights at 145-148. Compare this to say Victor Ortiz (weigh in 146, fight night: 161) or Berto (weigh in 146, fight night: high 150s)

by Rowley Tue May 10, 2011 11:04 am

Is it not possible that Marquez will have realised he got the maths wrong for Floyd and if indeed he did try to add extra bulk he will have realised that this was a mistake and will go about things differently. If bulking up didn't help why would he do it again. For me if he can be effective in the ring at 144 which would appear to be the case as it is what he weighs in the ring still struggle to see how fighting another guy who is 144 in the ring is a problem.

by coxy0001 Tue May 10, 2011 11:04 am

If Marquez wants to weigh 135 then it makes the fight even more of a joke as Armstrong he ain't (anyone mentions that i'll go insane).

by talkingpickle Tue May 10, 2011 11:06 am

Basically your saying Coxy is that when he was carrying water weight he looked awful and when he bulked up naturally to the weight with muscle he looked good. Have i got that right?

by manos de piedra Tue May 10, 2011 11:07 am

coxy0001 wrote:Two scenarios, and this really isn't hard to understand lads so try and chuffing stay with me:

Marquez weighs 135 as a LW, rehydrates to 144 and looks fine but not much bigger

Marquez weighs 142 and rehydrates to 144 and looks overweigth, out of shape and loses all his timing. He bulked up to cope with the extra size of Mayweather.

Now why did he bulk up if he was going to be the same size he would be if rehydrating from 135? Can you answer me that

The answer is clear - BECAUSE HE'S SMALLER AT 135 AS REHYDRATING ISNT THE SAME AS PUTTING ON lbs of MUSCLE!

Actually i don't give a fig anymore, is no-one here intelligent enough to realise that Manny and Marquez aren't the same size? As otherwise why did Marquez put on 8lbs of extra bulk prior to FMJ and LOOK AWFUL? Yet Manny is able to carry 145 with consumate easy and LOOKS GREAT AT THE WEIGHT?

Apologies for caps lock, but just thought i'd make sure the big points were clear as you seem to be missing them.

You are overlooking the fact he was facing Floyd Mayweather. This had more to do with his defeat than any weight issue. A Floyd Mayweather who also didnt bother sticking to the catchweight agreement.

Pacquiao is a smalll welter, he usually comes in around 144/145. Marquez has the option of putting on a couple of pounds of muscle (hardly a massive amount of weight) and rehydrating less or he can do what he does at lightweight if he wants. He has flexiblity to choose what his best weight is at.

Pacquiao might be a slightly bigger guy overall by a few pounds having been at the weight longer but its not enough to convince that he dramaticaly outsizing Marquez. The Mayweather fight didnt prove Marquez is incapable of operating above lightweight successfully. He was outmatched by a punch perfect Mayweather first and foremost. After that, its fair to discuss the implications of the weight and Mayweathers failure to make the agreement.

by **HumanWindmill** Tue May 10, 2011 11:07 am

I asked nicely, but I've had a gutload now.

Either this issue is debated with civility or it gets locked. I've got better things to do than wipe backsides.

by Scottrf Tue May 10, 2011 11:08 am

I get it fine. You're just relaying myths and cliches about 'bulking up' and Pacquiao being miles bigger. He would have a similar size advantage than the last time they met i.e. about 3/4 pounds.

If you are bigger your ring weight is higher, it's that simple.

You don’t seem to understand what the ring weight is or what dehydrating yourself to make weight is.

If he bulked up against Mayweather but not Katsidis, his fight night weight would be higher for the Mayweather fight.

If he doesn't bulk up and comes in as he did vs Katsidis, Pacquiao would barely have a size advantage at all. A similar advantage to their last fight.

by D4thincarnation Tue May 10, 2011 11:09 am

Yeah, Pacquiao has naturally grown since then, but heaven forbid that Marquez has grown in the same amount of time.

Lets not forget that Pacquiao was 138lbs he weighed in against Hatton, now he weighs in at 144-145lbs.

7lbs there.

I expect Marquez to to be about 140lbs on the scales and around 144-145lbs on the night.

Pacquiao will be about 142lbs on the scales and about 146lbs on the night.

Both fighting at a very comfortably weight for them.

But for some reason coxy seems to think Pacquiao will have a huge advantage in the weight stakes, but strangely he though Margarito 17lbs weight advantage didn't mean a thing.

Can anyone explain this?

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