Pacquiao vs Marquez to be held at catchweight 143-145lbs

by D4thincarnation Mon May 09, 2011 4:58 pm

First topic message reminder :

People were calling for this fight to be held at catchweight and they have been calling for this fight.

But now that it looks like it will happen at the catchweight people were calling for, will the boxing public be happy?

http://www.boxingscene.com/sources-pacquiao-marquez-held-catch-weight--38989

Sources in Mexico are reporting that a third meeting between Manny Pacquiao and Juan Manuel Marquez will likely have a catch-weight in place. Three weeks ago Marquez received an offer to face Pacquiao in a fall trilogy meeting. Marquez had a problem with some of the itemized terms that were listed in the offer. Pacquiao's promoter, Top Rank, is going to issue a new offer to Marquez on Monday. The revised offer will include several changes in areas that bothered Marquez. The catch-weight, reportedly, is going to fall between 143-145-pounds. Pacquiao has weighed between 144-145 for his last four welterweight ring appearances. Marquez has weighed between 133.5-134 for his last two lightweight title defenses. The fight could take place on November 5 or 12 in Las Vegas

What do you make of this news.

Should be a great fight.

by Valero's Conscience Mon May 09, 2011 6:08 pm

Also i'm pretty sure JMM doesn't cut to make LW and normally weighs in at 133-134ibs so difficult for him to go up and beyond where he can be as effective as possible, especially at his age but I won't make excuses for him to move to 140ibs albeit it is beyond where he is at his best.

It's completely different if you struggle to cut weight and then offered a fight at a weight 5-7ibs higher i.e. like Ortiz or Cotto from 140 to 147ibs as its natural to do so but when you force yourself to add unwanted muscle to bulk up to make the weight, it then changes the fighter.

No-one thought JMM looked effective or at least near his normal form against Floyd and the weight was a big issue, especially when you consider when the fight was suspended for 2-3 months, JMM still only went up to 144ibs I believe.

Manny was too small at 154ibs and against a sound boxer with decent boxing skills i.e. not a zombie like opponent like Margirito he would have a very realistic chance of losing which is why they instantly relinquished the belt and said they would never fight there again.

JMM could say the same about 147ibs with equal justification.

by Scottrf Mon May 09, 2011 6:10 pm

coxy0001 wrote:
Pacquiao weighed in at 148lbs on fight night at LM, Marquez 145 vs Katsidis at LW. Not a massive difference.

Did you read what i wrote Scott?

Christ

It's one thing to rehydrate 10lbs. It's another to carry 8lbs of extra muscle mass.

My evidence is Marquez @ 142 looked s**t. Manny looks great @ 145. Marquez looks great at 135.

Yes he rehydrates up. But the difference between that and carrying 8lbs more muscle mass is like chalk and cheese. Lack of speed, almost podggy look = the fmj fight.

Please read in future, ta very mooch

Yes I did, and that's why my example was of a time he rehydrated to that size. Please don't be condescending just because you don't understand what I write.

He isn't forced to weigh at the full catchweight. If he rehydrated that amount he'd be as effective as he was against Katsidis, and a similar size to Pacquiao.

by azania Mon May 09, 2011 6:21 pm

If JMM weighed in at 148 against Kats, then I see no problem. He doesn't have to bulk up with muscle mass as coxy suggested. All he has to do is cut less but still come in at his physical best and hope he rehydrates to an effective weight. If he is skilled enough he wins. Manny has bene outweighed in many fights post LW.

My issue is, JMM is slowing and ageing. Plus if the weight stips are not that much of an issue, why insist on them. Manny can easily make 140 btw.

As you can see, I hate catchweights.

by coxy0001 Mon May 09, 2011 6:27 pm

Scottrf wrote:
coxy0001 wrote:
Pacquiao weighed in at 148lbs on fight night at LM, Marquez 145 vs Katsidis at LW. Not a massive difference.

Did you read what i wrote Scott?

Christ

It's one thing to rehydrate 10lbs. It's another to carry 8lbs of extra muscle mass.

My evidence is Marquez @ 142 looked s**t. Manny looks great @ 145. Marquez looks great at 135.

Yes he rehydrates up. But the difference between that and carrying 8lbs more muscle mass is like chalk and cheese. Lack of speed, almost podggy look = the fmj fight.

Please read in future, ta very mooch
Yes I did, and that's why my example was of a time he rehydrated to that size. Please don't be condescending just because you don't understand what I write.

He isn't forced to weigh at the full catchweight. If he rehydrated that amount he'd be as effective as he was against Katsidis, and a similar size to Pacquiao.

Ok question:

After the fight who will weigh more?

I'll answer

Pacquiao is naturally 145lbs having bulked up since LW with extra muscle

Marquez hydrates to 145lbs and do you think he's the same weight after a fight?

Again, it's one thing to carry 145lbs as muscle - it's another to hydrate to that weight - he won't be the same size as the difference between fluids and muscle is...? I'll let you answer.

by Scottrf Mon May 09, 2011 6:28 pm

So you think Pacquiao goes into a fight dehydrated?

The only difference is a few pounds, other than that it's that Pacquiao doesn't cut as much anymore.

by Rowley Mon May 09, 2011 6:30 pm

As others have said as they both enter the ring at fairly similar weights is no real problem with this fight. Marquez has no obligation to weigh in on the limit, he can come in any weight he wants underneath the limit and re-hydrate as he did against Kats and others.

Would agree 140 would be slightly more interesting as Manny would perhaps have to work a bit harder to make the weight and so it would level the playing field a bit more but the reality is he is the star and the name in this one and as such is the guy who will get to call the shots.

by Sugar Boy Sweetie Mon May 09, 2011 6:36 pm

D4thincarnation wrote:
Boxtthis wrote:
Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:I wonder if JMM will have a tune up first? If it happens in the autumn it'll be a year since his bout with katsidas

He was on boxingscene.com the other day talking about a tuneup fight with David Diaz! Fair enough, get yourself sharp, but I never realised Diaz was still boxing! Probably just another boxingscene rumour mind.

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=12222&cat=boxer

Needs an opponent for July 2nd

Then will fight Pacquiao in November.

Would be good to see him take on someone at 140lbs in the summer.

I think malignaagi or even morales would be decent tune ups at 140. He doesn't want to take on someone too dangerous as an unexpected loss could scupper the pacquiao fight. Judah presents the same problems as manny ie speed and southpaw stance, but he's a dangerous opponent to take for a tune up IMO.

by Day V Lately Mon May 09, 2011 6:36 pm

Hope this doesnt happen to be honest, JMM deserves better than to have Roach wait for him to age a bit, then give it the biggun to the press, and have the Manny sycophants lap it up.

In 08 they both moved up to lightwieght at the same time, but Manny didnt want to know and took on the awful David diaz, to boost his pointless multi weight tag.

Its another con job from this team.

by Scottrf Mon May 09, 2011 6:37 pm

Malignaggi seems to be a decent fight for anyone to get a name on their record. Carries a decent enough reputation as a boxer and unlikely to knock you out, he's the perfect gatekeeper. Wouldn't be surprised to see Brook in with him after N'dou.

by Rowley Mon May 09, 2011 6:37 pm

Coxy hate to say it but you do come across slightly as a guy who will now use any excuse to take a dig at Manny. Ultimately there is not a deal of difference between the weights between the two fighters and so the catchweight thing is largely an irrelevance as in the ring they will be fairly similar.

Would also add if Marquez genuinely feels the Mayweather fight has proven he cannot be effective above 135 or that Manny has outgrown him he has the right to turn the fight down.

by Boxtthis Mon May 09, 2011 6:40 pm

Not sure I follow the logic in Coxy's arguments here either, despite the partonising/obvious tone of the explanations.

As far as I can see it: Manny weighs circa 148lbs on fight nights (totally hydrated and in good fighting shape) and Marquez weighs somewhere between 142 and 148 on fight nights (totally hydrated and in good fighting shape i.e. like against Katsidis). The only difference is that JMM still cuts weight effectively to fight at 135 and Manny doesn't bother with cutting weight any more. As far as I can see Manny should have a natural weight advantage of 3-5 pounds on JMM if they fight. Not a huge deal but still a bit annoying that Manny insists on catchweights.

by coxy0001 Mon May 09, 2011 6:49 pm

Scottrf wrote:So you think Pacquiao goes into a fight dehydrated?

The only difference is a few pounds, other than that it's that Pacquiao doesn't cut as much anymore.

So you're saying a guy who weighs 145lbs, who has bulked up in Ariza's own words is the same size as a guy who fights down at lightweight?

Ok then. Keep on with that thought. Had enough of trying to debate this with you. How much bigger did Marquez looked when he bulked up IN MUSCLE?! Proof is in the pudding, they're not the same size physically as when Marquez came up in weight he got bigger and looked s**t - him hydrating up from 135 = he doesn't look as bulked as he did vs FMJ.

I'm sorry, but i've had enough of you on this subject to be honest as i can't spell it out any more.

by Scottrf Mon May 09, 2011 6:51 pm

OK, but everyone else knows you are wrong or just trying to discredit Pacquiao.

by D4thincarnation Mon May 09, 2011 6:52 pm

I would say Pacquiao is a couple lbs, naturally bigger.

I guess coxy's old adage that "size doesn't matter" is no longer the case, as it seems now that every ounce matters.

by coxy0001 Mon May 09, 2011 6:55 pm

Rowley

How much bigger did Marquez look @ 142? How s**t did he look at the weight?

Him simply rehydrating = not the same as putting on muscle mass and staying at a higher level of hydration.

It should be beyond obvious they're not the same size based on the very fact Marquez has already "bulked up" once before and looked obviously bigger. And his reactions, speed and general timing were so far off it was laughable.

I'm not having a pop, i'm saying Marquez is a natural 135lb'r who rehydrates. when he added body weight in muscle mass he looked MILES bigger than when he's rehydrated up to 145lbs.

Has everyone forgotten how S**T he looked @ 142? FFS give me strength

by coxy0001 Mon May 09, 2011 6:57 pm

Reversing it round :

Would Manny have to struggle to get down to 135? Yes, of course he would. Does Marquez struggle to get down? Nope, not in the slightest. Who therefore is naturally the bigger man if you look at it like that?

I'm sorry, but i can't make it any more obvious.

And how the f**k am i having a pop at MAnny? I'm saying Marquez is a sodding lightweight and the 2 should've met at that weight for a 3rd fight before Manny fought Diaz. He's outgrown the weight class, Marquez hasn't.

Someone give me strength

by BALTIMORA Mon May 09, 2011 6:57 pm

D4thincarnation wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Juan's last fight....He'll want a bigger share of the pot...

After all he's beaten the guy twice..

Well he can have 20% or $25 million or 100% of $0. I know which one I would choose.

Sorry, who are you? You're not a guy who's actually involved with anything to do with these people or situations, not in the real world at least.

by joeyjojo618 Mon May 09, 2011 6:57 pm

I think this would be a good fight and a fair catchweight (why should the big draw have to work his way down to 140? Low 40's catchweight is as reasonable as its going to get.) Hope it happens.

Will be interesting to see whether Manny had an off night or time is catching up with him. JMM has much more in the tank than Shane.

by Rowley Mon May 09, 2011 6:58 pm

Think we need to bear in mind just how far Manny and Floyd are in front of everyone else out there. From welter below they are a country mile in front of everyone else and so unless they agree to fight each other (and lets not have that conversation again) whoever they fight is going to be something of a disappointment.

When Arum put three names to Manny, Mosley would have been my last choice as I beleived he was shot and still do, Berto is no longer especially viable so Marquez looks a decent option because nobody has made a massive leap to the top of the queue in the intervening period. Bradley still has business in his own division and one good result does not all of a sudden make Ortiz superman. As they both weigh fairly similar in the ring for me a catchweight of 142-143 is more than viable and does not put either guy at a massive disadvantage

by Scottrf Mon May 09, 2011 6:59 pm

coxy0001 wrote:Would Manny have to struggle to get down to 135? Yes, of course he would. Does Marquez struggle to get down? Nope, not in the slightest.

Conjecture.

Both rehydrated, they weigh in the ring very similar.

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Mon May 09, 2011 7:00 pm

Would have preferred to see this at 140lbs but tbh I don't see it being at 143-145lbs a problem. Think we might not have seen the best of Pac if he had to boil down to 140lbs. Marquez can come in at 143 he was going to fight Judah at 140lbs so I don't see the problem. Seems the fairest way for both fighters.

by Rowley Mon May 09, 2011 7:01 pm

Coxy, as it's a catchweight fight what is to stop him coming in at 135 at the weigh in and rehydrating to his in ring weight as he does normally. As others have said there is no obligation to come in on or even near the limit. For me if they end up in the ring at similar weights at there most comfortable the fight is viable and all the evidence seems to suggest this is the case.

by BALTIMORA Mon May 09, 2011 7:04 pm

Day V Lately wrote:Hope this doesnt happen to be honest, JMM deserves better than to have Roach wait for him to age a bit, then give it the biggun to the press, and have the Manny sycophants lap it up.

In 08 they both moved up to lightwieght at the same time, but Manny didnt want to know and took on the awful David diaz, to boost his pointless multi weight tag.

Its another con job from this team.

Absolutely spot on.
thumbsup

by manos de piedra Mon May 09, 2011 7:07 pm

It still remains to be seen how effective Marquez is above lightweight.

Fighting Floyd Mayweather obviously had something to do with how bad he looked. Mayweathers tactics were perfect and made Marquez fight a style hes not effective at. Mayweather made Marquez chase which he isnt good at. Hes a counter puncher who likes opponents to come to him. Pacquiao style wise is a better match for him as hes unlikely to have to go chasing him. I dont think its fair to conclusively say it was the weight and weight alone that caused him to look bad. Mayweather also didnt bother sticking to the agreed catchweight so he outsized him more significantly which presumable Pacquiao wont do.

by coxy0001 Mon May 09, 2011 7:07 pm

Scottrf wrote:
coxy0001 wrote:Would Manny have to struggle to get down to 135? Yes, of course he would. Does Marquez struggle to get down? Nope, not in the slightest.
Conjecture.

Both rehydrated, they weigh in the ring very similar.

Oh god. FFS

You just don't get it and to be honest i can't be bothered to debate this any further.

DID MARQUEZ LOOKED OBVIOUSLY MORE BULKED UP HAVING WEIGHED IN @ 142 WHEN HE WENT NORTH OF 135? YES HE BLOODY WELL DID

DOES HE LOOK THE SAME SIZE HAVING REHYDRATED FROM 135?! NO HE SODDING DOESN'T!!!!!!!!! HYDRATING DOESNT MAKE YOU BIGGER IN SIZE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

There you go, big bold caps so you might understand what the heck i'm on about. If you don't get it, then sorry i can't be bothered to debate this with you any more as it's like trying to explain the 4 times table to a 20 year old guy.

by D4thincarnation Mon May 09, 2011 7:07 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE9m48sDGvM

Very bad quality, but listen and take note of what Juan Manual Marquez says.

Take note coxy at 2.25.

by joeyjojo618 Mon May 09, 2011 7:10 pm

Who should he fight that wont bring derision from you Balti? Seems like you are panning him just for the sake of it now.

Marquez at low 140's is not a bad choice of opponent in my opinion. Like Jeff said, its hard for Floyd and Manny to pick opponents that will bring competitive matchups.

by Scottrf Mon May 09, 2011 7:10 pm

coxy0001 wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
coxy0001 wrote:Would Manny have to struggle to get down to 135? Yes, of course he would. Does Marquez struggle to get down? Nope, not in the slightest.
Conjecture.

Both rehydrated, they weigh in the ring very similar.

Oh god. FFS

You just don't get it and to be honest i can't be bothered to debate this any further.

DID MARQUEZ LOOKED OBVIOUSLY MORE BULKED UP HAVING WEIGHED IN @ 142 WHEN HE WENT NORTH OF 135? YES HE BLOODY WELL DID

DOES HE LOOK THE SAME SIZE HAVING REHYDRATED FROM 135?! NO HE SODDING DOESN'T!!!!!!!!! HYDRATING DOESNT MAKE YOU BIGGER IN SIZE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Against Mayweather his in ring weight was probably above Pacquiao's normal in-ring-weight if he bulked up. You don't bulk up or rehydrate, every boxer rehydrates before their in ring weight is taken.

The only inference from your statements is that you think someone who bulks up isn't hydrated in the ring.

by D4thincarnation Mon May 09, 2011 7:14 pm

So does size matter now coxy?

But last November it didn't matter when in was 17lbs but now it is 3lbs in ring weight it is a huge difference.

With the catchweight, there is a good chance they will weigh exactly the same in the ring.

by coxy0001 Mon May 09, 2011 7:21 pm

D4thincarnation wrote:So does size matter now coxy?

But last November it didn't matter when in was 17lbs but now it is 3lbs in ring weight it is a huge difference.

With the catchweight, there is a good chance they will weigh exactly the same in the ring.

Your youtube clip is another example of a boxer making excuses.

Guess you should give Hatton's stuff about a rubbish rudey poo all sorts of respect then yeah? Do you? Common, do you?

FACT IS Manny is a welterweight, Marquez is a lightweight. How good did Marquez look bulking up? He looked rubbish, slow and lethargic. I have evidence of that, you have absolutely f**k all.

Funny how everyone thinks this is a joke fight if it gets made

Why hasn't Marquez moved up? Is he a natural LW?

And stop with the rehydration rudey poo. Really simple question - Will Marquez try to bulk up if he fights Pacquiao? Or will he go "oh we're the same size, all i've got to do is rehydrate". Of course he'll bulk up. Which therefore means he's the naturally smaller guy to begin with.

It really, really isn't rocket science

Would love a reply to the above, thanks very much

by wow_junky Mon May 09, 2011 7:25 pm

Coxy,

Do you think Pac can still make 135lb or 140lb?

by Scottrf Mon May 09, 2011 7:26 pm

Your logic is:

If Marquez knows they are the same size, he's not going to just hydrate to the same size as Pacquiao.

He wont come in at his most effective, he's going to make himself less effective by putting on more muscle.

Therefore Marquez is smaller.

by Rowley Mon May 09, 2011 7:28 pm

Two things Coxy, one would hope an experienced campaigner like Marquez would have learned from the Floyd experience and would try and strike a better balance between excessive weight gain should the fight be made around 142-143 and would approach the fight differently.

The other point is he has no actual obligation to take the fight should the terms or weight not be agreeable. Naive in the extreme to think the biggest star in the world is likely put himself in a position where he is excessively weak or drained.

by D4thincarnation Mon May 09, 2011 7:31 pm

coxy0001 wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:So does size matter now coxy?

But last November it didn't matter when in was 17lbs but now it is 3lbs in ring weight it is a huge difference.

With the catchweight, there is a good chance they will weigh exactly the same in the ring.

Your youtube clip is another example of a boxer making excuses.

Guess you should give Hatton's stuff about a rubbish rudey poo all sorts of respect then yeah? Do you? Common, do you?

FACT IS Manny is a welterweight, Marquez is a lightweight. How good did Marquez look bulking up? He looked rubbish, slow and lethargic. I have evidence of that, you have absolutely f**k all.

Funny how everyone thinks this is a joke fight if it gets made

Why hasn't Marquez moved up? Is he a natural LW?

And stop with the rehydration rudey poo. Really simple question - Will Marquez try to bulk up if he fights Pacquiao? Or will he go "oh we're the same size, all i've got to do is rehydrate". Of course he'll bulk up. Which therefore means he's the naturally smaller guy to begin with.

It really, really isn't rocket science

Would love a reply to the above, thanks very much

No he will not bulk up, and will come into the ring around 146lb.

Doesn't Marquez walk around at the 160s

by Guest Mon May 09, 2011 7:36 pm

The problem with this fight is clearly that what ever weight they fight at SOMEONE is going to have an excuse for performing badly.

"I was weight drained"

"I was weight gained"

Thus diminishing the fight before it's even a reality.

May as well draw straws to see who wins!

D4 writes - Doesn't Marquez walk around at the 160s?

So now Marquez cuts more weight than Hatton before a fight? Heard it all now!

by coxy0001 Mon May 09, 2011 7:38 pm

wow_j

He'd have to drain a fair bit to 140, and i think he's now way too big to drop 10lbs and be effective at 135lbs.

I'm done with this to be honest.

Marquez has been weighing 135 (and under) at LW, Pac has been weighing 145 etc at WW. You put the two side by side you'd see a big difference.

Fact is the fight shouldn't be entertained. Marquez has already shown he looked effing useless at 142, Manny has shown he's grown into the WW division. And in Roach's word is a welterweight, hence why he won't drop down any more.

LW VS WW

End of from me on the matter. Marquez can come in at 135 yeah, but he's carrying the power of a LW whereas Manny will have 10lbs on him in MUSCLE and carries the power of a WW due to being bigger.

I could go on, but i really can't be bothered with some of you

Ta ra, off home

by Boxtthis Mon May 09, 2011 7:50 pm

I think the point of contention with Coxy's argument is that yes JMM looked terrible when he bulked up against FMJ, but by the same token we've got people saying that he weighed 148 in the Katsidis fight (in which he looked relatively sharp and not bulky at all).

So what is JMM's natural weight (while in good shape)? To my mind if he weighs around 140-145 before cutting weight to make LW then he will have no need to bulk up or cut weight - he'll just come in around that level. Similarly Manny who sits around 145-148 will neither bulk up or cut weight. Manny will set the catchwieght at 145 and will have a nice 5 or so lb weight advantage.

I must say that Coxy's explanations are far from clear cut and that the petulant use of language and caps lock doesn't help much.

by Scottrf Mon May 09, 2011 7:52 pm

Boxtthis wrote:I must say that Coxy's explanations are far from clear cut and that the petulant use of language and caps lock doesn't help much.

Debating sensibly isn't his strong point, nor is impartiality.

by **oxring** Mon May 09, 2011 7:52 pm

coxy0001 wrote:wow_j

He'd have to drain a fair bit to 140, and i think he's now way too big to drop 10lbs and be effective at 135lbs.
I'm done with this to be honest.
Marquez has been weighing 135 (and under) at LW, Pac has been weighing 145 etc at WW. You put the two side by side you'd see a big difference.
Fact is the fight shouldn't be entertained. Marquez has already shown he looked effing useless at 142, Manny has shown he's grown into the WW division. And in Roach's word is a welterweight, hence why he won't drop down any more.
LW VS WW
End of from me on the matter. Marquez can come in at 135 yeah, but he's carrying the power of a LW whereas Manny will have 10lbs on him in MUSCLE and carries the power of a WW due to being bigger.
I could go on, but i really can't be bothered with some of you
Ta ra, off home

Coxy - what a load of bullocks and heifers!

You have in the past criticised Manny for not comprehensively defeating Marquez. Marquez has been demanding the fight. Other than Floyd Marquez is the only person left for Manny to fight. So why the hell shouldn't the fight happen. Manny is weighing 145 on fight night - not cutting or rehydrating excessively. Yes - JMM didn't look good against Floyd - but for a start - he was already outweighed when the fight happened - Floydy didn't bother with the catchweight.

I think its pretty good of Team Pacquiao to offer this at a catchweight. Fact is - they could sell this at 147 and there's enough casual interest to think its real.

I don't see why Manny, as the draw and the cash cow should have to dehydrate to 140 - only in an ideal world would such things happen. But then much of SRL and SRR's career's wouldn't have panned out as they did. The "man" makes the rules of the fight, the challenger steps up to those rules or walks away. So it has been since the dawn of time. Manny is "the man", however you like to spin it.

I'm agreeing with Jeff on this one - you're coming across like you have to take a pop at Manny whatever he does.

by D4thincarnation Mon May 09, 2011 7:59 pm

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn (U14385746) 05 August 2010

No, the armed guards are protecting Manny 24/7 from the beast that is Juan Manuel Marquez.

Manny can't run forever, now man up Manny and sign for the trilogy, you have been running for too long now!!!

comment by expertBoxingMaster (U13292587)

posted Aug 5, 2010

As promised: It looks like another day is going to go by without Manny signing for the trilogy and with still no word from the "Superchamp" he's looking more and more scared!

comment by Mr Pacquiao (U14484726)

posted Aug 5, 2010

Manny will stay well away from 'the beast' Marquez, he fears for his life...manny dont do it!!!!!

coxy0001 (U4293837)

Does that not make Mosley the man to beat?

by D4thincarnation Mon May 09, 2011 8:01 pm

comment by coxy0001 (U4293837)

posted Jul 26, 2010

Awww D4, right back at your idol:

Ducked every recognised name at 135lbs
Didn't even fight Cotto at the WW limit
Didn't want to fight Mosley at 147
Doesn't want to fight Marg at 154
Doesn't want to fight Williams at 154
Didn't want a 3rd fight with Marquez

by D4thincarnation Mon May 09, 2011 8:23 pm

comment by coxy0001 (U4293837)

posted Sep 2, 2010

Size only makes a difference if the 2 fighters are on roughly the same technical level, within reason - WITHIN REASON. Calderon is a far better technician than Vitali but naturally one jab and it's all over, if you bring the ends of the spectrum together closer where one guy is heavier (but not in stupid proportions) than the other but lacks the technical ability then the point is more than valid.

Coxy a question, do you think the size difference between Marquez and Pacquiao is of stupid proportions?

And who do you think has the better technical ability out of Pacquiao and Marquez?

Thanks
D4

And thanks Oxxy

by Lumbering_Jack Mon May 09, 2011 8:37 pm

This fight is happening to late in the day, at a weight Marquez has proven he can't operate properly.

I love Marquez, for me he doesn't get the plaudits he deserves considering he is a terrific operator. For me he beat Manny twice at a weight where Manny was arguably at his best. He is very exciting to watch, can't remember the last time he was in a bad fight.

For me this is another case of Team Vulture picking a faded legend at a weight he is not comfortable at. Manny to take him out late.

by manos de piedra Mon May 09, 2011 8:44 pm

I am probably more concerned about the timing of the fight than the weight issue to be honest.

I am reluctant to place too much emphasis on the Mayweather fight because I think it was as much a case of Mayweather just being better all round than Marquez. I dont think the outcome would be much different at 135 had Mayweather been able to comfortably make the weight. It was also pretty low for Maywether to ignore the catchweight limit which was a pre medidated move in my opinion as I refuse to believe a guy who has always made 147 comfortably and walks around only a few pounds above his fighting weight could fail to make 145. I would like to say Marquez have an interim fight at the 140 mark against another fighter to judge accordingly.

The bigger issue for me is that I just suspect Marquez has been sliding somewhat. Hes getting old and while I think he still retains the class to beat guys like Katsidas and Diaz, I just dont think he has it to take on Pacquiao anymore. The timing has shifted just to favour Pacquiao as the younger, more in form fighter. Reminds me a bit of Duran v Leonard III. Even if you feel there is unfinished business from the first 2 encounters I think that ship has sailed and now everything favours Pacquiao.

However it sems like there are too many people here with an agenda that will use the fight to further their own personal agenda/issue. I can see why the Marquez fight makes financial sense and Pacquiao doesnt have a great deal of options. People are going to keep creating false hopes to beat them when I think its become reasonably apparent now that the two of them are a fair distance ahead of the pack at Welterweight or below. The only way I can see either of them losing (if they dont fight each other) is if they simply step up too much in weight and if thats the case then you have to ask yourself "what does it really prove?".

by coxy0001 Mon May 09, 2011 9:15 pm

D4thincarnation wrote:
comment by coxy0001 (U4293837)

posted Jul 26, 2010

Awww D4, right back at your idol:

Ducked every recognised name at 135lbs
Didn't even fight Cotto at the WW limit
Didn't want to fight Mosley at 147
Doesn't want to fight Marg at 154
Doesn't want to fight Williams at 154
Didn't want a 3rd fight with Marquez

Not sure what your point is other than showing yourself up. Why didn't he want Mosley at 147 after fighting DLH at the limit? Seems to me like he waited for him to get old, get dic*ed on by FMJ and then struggle to a draw to a guy who lost his next fight to someone who's 17-5.

And he didn't want a 3rd fight with Marquez when Marquez's promoter offered Pac a career high purse of $4m. That's what i was alluding to. Now Manny has grown into the WW division i find it laughable he wants to take on little old Marquez who's been fighting down at 135. But wait, they're the same size of course! That's why Marquez didn't fight FMJ, didn't bulk up and didn't look like a fat little Mexican at all then! And i guess he didn't embarass himself so much he didn't win a round, looked slow and lacked any zip in his punches!

Silly me! Rather than burn off the extra weight and be a lean mean 135 he looked utterly fantastic adding bulk to his frame and carried it so well didn't he?

And do you want to quote all of my quote about Mosley? Because i'm pretty sure i was referencing him being "the man" after he beat Margarito. Trying to swindle the quote in your favour just makes you look like an idiot. Which is something you're rather accustomed to doing. So go on, find me the whole quote. You need to get a life, must be paining you to seeing Manny take a caning across the internet for his last 3 opponents. Hope he retires coz we won't see you anymore THANK GOD

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Mon May 09, 2011 9:18 pm

coxy0001 wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:
comment by coxy0001 (U4293837)

posted Jul 26, 2010

Awww D4, right back at your idol:

Ducked every recognised name at 135lbs
Didn't even fight Cotto at the WW limit
Didn't want to fight Mosley at 147
Doesn't want to fight Marg at 154
Doesn't want to fight Williams at 154
Didn't want a 3rd fight with Marquez

Not sure what your point is other than showing yourself up. Why didn't he want Mosley at 147 after fighting DLH at the limit? Seems to me like he waited for him to get old, get dic*ed on by FMJ and then struggle to a draw to a guy who lost his next fight to someone who's 17-5.

And he didn't want a 3rd fight with Marquez when Marquez's promoter offered Pac a career high purse of $4m. That's what i was alluding to. Now Manny has grown into the WW division i find it laughable he wants to take on little old Marquez who's been fighting down at 135. But wait, they're the same size of course! That's why Marquez didn't fight FMJ, didn't bulk up and didn't look like a fat little Mexican at all then! And i guess he didn't embarass himself so much he didn't win a round, looked slow and lacked any zip in his punches!

Silly me! Rather than burn off the extra weight and be a lean mean 135 he looked utterly fantastic adding bulk to his frame and carried it so well didn't he?

And do you want to quote all of my quote about Mosley? Because i'm pretty sure i was referencing him being "the man" after he beat Margarito. Trying to swindle the quote in your favour just makes you look like an idiot. Which is something you're rather accustomed to doing. So go on, find me the whole quote. You need to get a life, must be paining you to seeing Manny take a caning across the internet for his last 3 opponents. Hope he retires coz we won't see you anymore THANK GOD

Don't be to sure Coxy Roach will still be training Khan. That will be who he will have wet dreams about next I think.

by coxy0001 Mon May 09, 2011 9:23 pm

Prettyboy

I couldn't really care to be honest, i'll just resign from the forum if this clown is allowed to keep on posting his cack.

Couldn't put up with X amount more time of his inane rubbish. Luckily when there's nothing to jizz over about the only 2 fighters he talks about he goes quiet.

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Mon May 09, 2011 9:25 pm

Don't go Coxy I want a weekend review.

Never actually heard someone so obsessed with one fighter. Manny would be terrified if he met D4.

by BALTIMORA Mon May 09, 2011 9:29 pm

Coxy...you forgot about Donaire. *spaff*

by sweet_pea Mon May 09, 2011 9:58 pm

marquez DID reject the initial offer but top rank will be making an offer on monday..... so most likely he will accept.. and he has been quoted to be taking diaz then pac in nov.

also, rumours around a judah - khan in july??

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