Lions warm-up crowds and union popularity in Australia

Surprised no one’s mentioned the crowds on this tour much yet.  We’re always told in various outlets that hardly anyone in Australia follows rugby union – and that it’s about the 9^th most popular sport after prison-rules tiddlywinks etc.  With this in mind, I’ve been pleasantly surprised that the warm-up Lions games thus far seem to have almost all been sell-outs in big stadia.  Contrast this with 2009 when, in apparently rugby-mad RSA, I seem to remember most of the warm-up games being played in front of half-empty stadia (mainly in front of Lions fans).  Also, I’ve been trying to follow the Australian take on the tour, and so I’ve been keeping an eye on the Sydney Morning Herald website – where rugby union comes second in their sports site tab list after NRL – surely another indication that union is bigger there than (for some reason) a lot of people would have us believe?

Any Australian posters able to give me a better idea of how big union is there at the moment – and how much interest the Lions actually generates?

MarcusHalberstram wrote:Surprised no one’s mentioned the crowds on this tour much yet.  We’re always told in various outlets that hardly anyone in Australia follows rugby union – and that it’s about the 9^th most popular sport after prison-rules tiddlywinks etc.  With this in mind, I’ve been pleasantly surprised that the warm-up Lions games thus far seem to have almost all been sell-outs in big stadia.  Contrast this with 2009 when, in apparently rugby-mad RSA, I seem to remember most of the warm-up games being played in front of half-empty stadia (mainly in front of Lions fans).  Also, I’ve been trying to follow the Australian take on the tour, and so I’ve been keeping an eye on the Sydney Morning Herald website – where rugby union comes second in their sports site tab list after NRL – surely another indication that union is bigger there than (for some reason) a lot of people would have us believe?

Any Australian posters able to give me a better idea of how big union is there at the moment – and how much interest the Lions actually generates?

Australian sport support varies a fair bit on a state-by-state basis. Overall (and this is a bit of guesswork by a kiwi) I'd say it goes something like

NSW:

1. RL
   
2. Cricket
   
3. AFL
   
4. RU/Soccer
   

Queensland

1. Cricket
   
2. RL
   
3. RU
   
4. AFL
   
5. Soccer
   

ACT

1. Cricket
   
2. RU/RL (Raiders and Brumbies both quite well supported)
   
3. AFL
   
4. Soccer
   

Victoria

1. AFL
   
2. AFL
   
3. AFL
   
4. Cricket
   
5. RU/RL/Soccer
   

WA

1. AFL
   
2. Cricket
   
3. RU
   
4. Soccer
   
5. RL
   

NT/Tassie

1. Who knows
   

The SMH is more of a rugby leaning paper than most.

While rugby union comes a ways down the list of sports in popularity, the Aussies are big sports fans in general, considerably more so than in the UK. A big event like the Lions will get a decent following from casual sports fans across the spectrum

Most Popular Sports in Australia
The sports that are popular in Australia can be very different to elsewhere around the world, and in addition there are regional differences in the popularity of sports, for example the most popular football code in Sydney is Rugby League, while in Melbourne it is AFL. Here is a discussion and lists of the most popular sports in Australia. See more lists of top sports by country.



AFL is the most popular sport to watch
There are three lists of popular sports in Australia that can be compared, the list of the most popular sports search terms, the list of attendance figures for sports in Australia, and the number of participants in sports and activities. AFL is clearly the most popular spectator sport in Australia, though in terms of participation more men play golf, cricket and tennis. Rugby league is another popular sport, but not as a sport to play. It is also interesting to see that what people are interested in and search for online can be quite different to what they actually go to watch. It also highlights the difficulty in defining 'popular' sport - is it what people are most interested in, what they play the most or what they watch? The lists are summarized below.
[th]Rank[/th][th]Most Searched[/th][th]Most Attended[/th][th]Most Participants[/th]

1	Australian Rules Football	Australian Rules Football	Aerobics
2	Cricket	Horse Racing	Golf
3	Football	Rugby League	Tennis
4	NRL	Motor Sports	Lawn Bowls
5	Golf	Soccer (outdoor)	Netball
6	Rugby	Cricket (outdoor)	Swimming
7	Soccer	Rugby Union	Cricket (outdoor)
8	Tennis	Harness Racing	Martial Arts
9	Basketball	Tennis (indoor and outdoor)	Basketball
10	Rugby League	Dog racing	Tenpin Bowling

Interesting stuff - thanks you both for your input on this.

Among the rugby community the Lions tour is massive over here.  My rugby mad colleagues can't wait but, surprisingly, an English colleague doesn't know who the Lions are or even that they're out here.  I guess if you're into rugby it's big, if not, then it's not. I think for people that aren't hardcore fans they at least appreciate the rarity of it (at least I like to think they do).

As KRD said, the sporting pecking order varies from state to state. Qld and NSW are pretty much the same (RL, cricket, rugby, AFL/Soccer) whereas Victoria and WA are more AFL, cricket, RL, rugby/soccer.  The SMH is by far the biggest rugby mouthpiece rag in the country.

Australians will turn out in droves for international matches in RU, RL, Football and cricket - although numbers in the latter seem to be dwindling in recent years. Apart from the BBL - attendances at SS matches and Ryobi Cup are extremely poor. Lucky to get 2,000 at those.

For domestic comps; AFL has by far the largest attendances, especially in Melbourne, Perth and Adelaide. Sydney Swans at the SCG is usually near capacity but GWS at Skoda - not so well attended. Brisbane Lions crowds are nowhere near their glory days of early 2000s... yet Gold Coast Suns are enjoying a sort of honeymoon period with decent turn-outs at Metricon Stadium.

In terms of participation; naturally in Vic, WA and SA the vast majority of the kiddies play AFL although there are small pockets where they play some RU, RL and football.

Ironically, I've noticed AFL is getting more popular amongst juniors in places like western Sydney. We even have an all-Muslim women's team up the road. They're not travelling too well at the moment though. They get hammered regularly but fair play to them for trying!

NRL is only well attended only for the big clashes in Brisbane mainly. Sydney NRL fans are way too fickle to attend matches religiously... but because we have plenty of other outdoor activity options... many folks would have the radio on in the boat / in the park / on the way to the rubbish tip, whilst digging holes, etc. The weather is simply too nice most of the time!

So there's a huge 'hidden' following of people who just don't/can't make it out to games. There was only just over 20,000 at ANZ in the Doggies-Chooks match last night. Allianz is hardly ever full. Sydney suburban grounds get average crowds due to capacity... lucky to get 15-20,000 (10-15,000 more like)... although fans in Newcastle, Canberra and Melbourne seem get out to their grounds more - depending on how their teams are faring of course.

Football is really growing here especially in western Sydney. A growing hard core of fans has appeared out of nowhere and are already demanding a bigger stadium after only one year. The problem is that there is already fierce competition with the other codes and teams (9 NRL/2 AFL/2 A-League plus the Tahs) and all it takes is half a bad season and the numbers will drop significantly.

There was a massive crowd (v Iraq) the other night as Australia qualified for Brazil  
The Man U v All Stars match on July 20 is a sell out too.

As for rugby - we would be lucky to get 500-1000 at most Shute Shield (Sydney suburban) matches. I'd guess it would be similar or less in Brisbane. I can't even name the competitions in the other states (it changes structure and name too often and is not even mentioned in the media here) but it's all AFL at the amateur 'semi-professional' level. In Sydney it's mostly RU in the GPS (8 off) and CAS (6 off) schools which are mainly in the northern, eastern and inner west but also there's lots of tiny metropolitan competitions which have to compete with even more football, RL and AFL junior comps. It's similar in Qld; although smaller... however it's fair to say that Brisbane Premier Rugby is slightly more competitive than Shute Shield (except for the top 4-6 teams say)

At Super XV level the numbers also vary according to how well each franchise is faring. I'm pleasantly surprised to see attendances increasing in Melbourne and Perth as their facilities are built or improved. Brisbane is the best attended by far with only 2 NRL teams including the Gold Coast and one A-League with GC now defunct. The Brumbies are relatively well supported too. Again in Sydney, we'll get 30-35,000 to Allianz when things are going well for the Tahs... 15-20,000 when they are not.

Looking at the turnout for this Lions Tour so far it's not bad at all.

167,770 or an average of 33,554 thanks to the large crowd for the Reds match.

We can add another 52,500 for tonight, 29,500 (AAMI), 56,000 for Melbourne and 83,000 for Sydney so there will have been just under 390,000 for the 9 matches for an ave. of around 43,000.

Getting ready for the big one LB?
I'm thinking a Lions win only because of the rawnwss of the newbies and some out of position a little and JOC not having played a tes for yonks. So the combinations in the backs/ rawness of the loosies at this level is a bit concerning, combined with the matchplay the Lions have had.

Like last year I think the first test will kick start them into an eventual series win, regardless of who wins tonight.

Very classy side on paper...just not sure if theyre up for the first one to win with great confidence. How do you think it will go?

Taylorman wrote:Getting ready for the big one LB?
I'm thinking a Lions win only because of the rawnwss of the newbies and some out of position a little and JOC not having played a tes for yonks. So the combinations in the backs/ rawness of the loosies at this level is a bit concerning, combined with the matchplay the Lions have had.

Like last year I think the first test will kick start them into an eventual series win, regardless of who wins tonight.

Very classy side on paper...just not sure if theyre up for the first one to win with great confidence. How do you think it will go?

Just wrote a long-winded reply and my PC crashed.

Yes, getting ready for it. Quietly confident but not overly so. I think the selections indicate that the Wallabies will try and play a higher risk game (which could awfully backfire if we're not careful - especially if there's no plan B). I'm glad SOB isn't in the 23 but then again, we'll need Palu to front up in our run-on loose trio. Good bench options there though. Happy with our front 5 (our best front row and our bench is probably the best we can do at the moment), Douglas and Horwill should be a handful. Set pieces should be fairly even... maybe the Lions have the edge in scrummaging but Wallabies have some tall timber in their line-out.... then again it could go either way.

It will be a case of who controls the breakdown, who makes the most of the lucky breaks that may arise and gets more mileage out of them and of course, staying on the right side of Pollock. The Wallabies can't afford to start slowly like in 2001 otherwise it will be a similar result. It is so important for the Wallabies to get a lead of some sort (say at 60 mins) and put pressure on Gats to bring on his replacements. If we are ahead... it could be an interesting finish. If the Lions are in front... it could well be "good night" for us with 20 minutes to go still.

I have a feeling both sides will try to start playing an up-tempo game from the first whistle but the question will be who can dominate possession early and get it quickly and cleanly out to the back lines to do their stuff. The Wallabies backs will need to put the Lions defensive line (which has been extremely solid) in 2 minds to either get through, go around or go over. Sorry, that's 3 isn't it?
They'll need to be very careful to execute whichever of the 4  ways properly or they'll be severely punished I believe.

So I think it could be either - a close win either side with the Lions having a better chance of opening up a bigger margin than the Wallabies who, as you say, are untested in this particular combination and RD is simply putting together a team based on past lessons whilst at the same time trying to encourage the open running game which will certainly be needed to counteract the Lions.

I've been so impressed with the Lions (forget Canberra) and they've made a mockery of the 'NH style of play' comments when we saw them execute some very sophisticated backline plays against the lesser opposition. The last thing Gatland wants to do is turn it down a notch, play it safe / play more conservatively. I'm sure Australia won't. It will hopefully be two very positive teams throwing everything they have at one another until something cracks. One thing is for sure though... I don't think either will give up easily.

Good luck too TM and my Kiwi friends in the final Test against France this evening.

Yep thats probably the fairest view of this match. The other thing for me is we forget just what a big match player JOC really is. Pound for pound I thought he was the most effective back in the world when he was playing, knocking us for 6 in Hong Kong a while ago.

How he goes will make a huge difference from pivot and the odd pass or half gap he conjures up could swing the match, he's that type of player.

So theres my pick for tonight if Oz are to get up for this- JOC to make the diff, otherwise the Lions to just get there.

France seem to have resigned to a loss with so many out and I don't think this will be one of those French moments tonight. Soem of the replacements have hardly played all tour let alone big club seasons.

The Samoa Bok match could be interesting if Samoa can get into gear. Scotland showed theyre beatable so I wouldnt totally count them out...almost but not totally...