2nd TEST - AUS vs BRITISH & IRISH LIONS - 29th June - (KO-11:05 GMT)

by Scrumpy Sun 23 Jun 2013, 10:20 am

First topic message reminder :

2nd Test build-up thread

Can the Lions finish the job?
Will Aus bounch back (like we know they can)?
Will the Ref know the rules?

Aus have called up George Smith, Jesse Mogg and centre Ben Tapuai but still No Cooper?
(talk about shooting yourself in the foot!)

15. Halfpenny,
14. Bowe,
13. BOD,
12. Davies,
11.North,
10. Sexton,
9. Youngs;

1. Vunipola
2. Youngs,
3. Jones,
4. AWJ,
5. Parling,
6. Lydiate,
7. Warburton,
8. Heaslip

Replacements:
16 Hibbard, 17 Grant, 18 Cole, 19 Croft, 20 O'Brien, 21 Murray, 22 Farrell, 23 Cuthbert

Australia
15 Kurtley Beale (Melbourne Rebels)
14 Israel Folau (NSW)
13 Adam Ashley-Cooper (NSW)
12 Christian Leali'ifano (ACT Brumbies)
11 Joe Tomane (Brumbies)
10 James O'Connor (Melbourne Rebels)
9 Will Genia (Reds)
8 Wycliff Palu (NSW)
7 Michael Hooper (NSW)
6 Ben Mowen (ACT)
5 Kane Douglas (NSW)
4 James Horwill (Reds - Cap)
3 Ben Alexander (ACT)
2 Stephen Moore (ACT)
1 Benn Robinson (NSW)

16 Saia Fainga'a (Reds)
17 James Slipper (Reds)
18 Sekope Kepu (NSW)
19 Rob Simmons (Reds)
20 Liam Gill (Reds)
21 Nick Phipps (Rebels)
22 Rob Horne (NSW)
23 Jesse Mogg (Brumbies)

For those wanting to see it again and again and again etc.....http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=GEORGE+NORTHS+LIONS+TRY&view=detail&mid=64E92B2D2B1B4128364264E92B2D2B1B41283642&first=0&FORM=NVPFVR&qpvt=GEORGE+NORTHS+LIONS+TRY

by JmD Mon 24 Jun 2013, 10:42 am

How could Lealiifano be cleared already after suffering a concussion 2 days ago? There is absolutely no way he's fine to play this fast.

by ChequeredJersey Mon 24 Jun 2013, 11:19 am

hugehandoff wrote:For all the negatives about the Lions performance it is easy to forget that the Aussies did not exactly play that well either. Even taking into account their horrendous injury toll parts of the team did not work. JOC at 10 was not good and they did struggle at the breakdown. It will take a huge effort for them to turn it around, but of course I don't doubt that they can do it. But this is still a wonderful opportunity for the Lions to take the series 2-0.

The Lions need to ensure that our forward platform is strong and the issues from the 1st test rectified. Vunipola struggled against Wales and in the 1st test. He has shone on this tour in the loose as that is his strength and has not been tested scrummaging wise due to poor opposition. We cannot afford to play him again. Corbs must play as long as poss with Grant as the back up. If Corbs is unfit then Grant to start and Vuni will have to be on the bench, but hopefully our starting loosehead can play nearer 70 minutes than last week. I really do think we missed a trick in not having Sheridan out there.

We also need some continuity in the backs and therefore I think we should keep them as is. Some changes to the bench depending on how some players perform tomorrow. I would even keep Phillips as starting, but would not be afraid to bring Youngs on at half time if he is not performing. We need to win the gain line battle and for that we need some physicality and now that POC is out I am worried that Parling is too weak in this area, even if he is very good in the lineout and with his alround work rate. Lydiate or SOB must replace Croft.

A huge game from Adam Jones is required and with only 2 tackles in the last one he needs to contribute in the loose more than last weekend. But I do think we can deliver and win the series, but the forwards must really step up and lay the platform.

They didn't struggle at the breakdown. There was no breakdown. They didn't compete at it. We have learnt little if anything about this Aussie team or their plan from that match except their 10 struggled to deal with a uniquely unlucky set of incidences in their backline, Genia is still a genius and Folau can nearly beat us by himself even with the rest of their backs doing pretty much nothing. And Beale needs better shoes

by ChequeredJersey Mon 24 Jun 2013, 3:27 pm

Barnes confirmed out of the test. Ioane and McCabe out of the series

by **George Carlin** Mon 24 Jun 2013, 3:32 pm

Thanks Chequered - nasty for Aussie:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jun/24/digby-ioane-ruled-out-for-series

Plenty of time for Digby to attend the police station now, then.

by Scrumpy Tue 25 Jun 2013, 9:51 am

Score predictions?

Aus 27 Lions 22 - I have a bad feeling about this game.

by tigertattie Tue 25 Jun 2013, 10:32 am

less we forget if Oz had a better day at the kicking tee then the score would have been very very different.

Also I Cutherberts try was a complete freak! Running at a flanker playing in the centre due to injuries combined with the fact there was obstruction but the video ref let it go!

I can't see the wallabies loosing any more tests in the series!

by ChequeredJersey Tue 25 Jun 2013, 10:33 am

What's the weather predicted to be?

by Scrumpy Tue 25 Jun 2013, 2:46 pm

Cloudy
highs of 59f
0% chance of rain
Humidity: 79%

by ChequeredJersey Tue 25 Jun 2013, 2:52 pm

that's only 15 degrees C. From my brief experience there, Melbourne in late Autumn/Winter, is pretty much like the UK in Spring. Should suit our players.

Still think Australia win 35 - 28

by RubyGuby Tue 25 Jun 2013, 3:26 pm

Australia 22 Lions 31 thumbsup

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Tue 25 Jun 2013, 3:31 pm

Not sure if anyone's posted it, but looks like Roberts and Corbs are def. unavailable for Saturday

http://www.espn.co.uk/scrum/rugby/story/187615.html

by Scrumpy Tue 25 Jun 2013, 3:36 pm

Manu to start or stick with BOD and JD?

by RubyGuby Tue 25 Jun 2013, 3:43 pm

BOD and JD did well on Sat IMO for their first run out - Mannu has great potential off the bench but can be a liability in defence thumbsup

by Scrumpy Tue 25 Jun 2013, 4:20 pm

We won by a stroke of luck, to stick with the same team imo is the wrong option.

Manu will cause them more problems imo maybe JD and Manu would be the better option?

by **LondonTiger** Tue 25 Jun 2013, 4:38 pm

I cannot see Manu making the 23 man squad.

Whilst they are still hopeful over Corbs fitness, he has to be a serious doubt. DrJ is still not in full training so is another likely to be ruled out on fitness grounds.

Faletau was apparently good today, though his inclusion at Heaslip's expense would probably mean that Croft (who may not actually be at risk despite what the board thinks) would be retained for the lineout expertise.

My sneaky feeling is the squad will be as follows (players listed alphabetically in positions where there is bench cover):

Grant/Vunipola
Hibbard/Youngs
Cole/Jones
Gray, jones, Parling
Croft. Heaslip. O'Brien, Warburton
Phillips, Youngs
Farrell, Sexton
Davies, O'Driscoll
Bowe, Cuthbert, North
Halfpenny

by tigertattie Tue 25 Jun 2013, 4:49 pm

I would go with

Vunipola
Youngs
Jones

Gray
Jones

SOB
Tipuric
Heaslip

Youngs
Sexton

Davies
BOD

Maitland
North
Halfpenny

With a bench of
Grant, Hibbard, Cole, Parling, Warburton, Phillips, Farrell, Hogg

But Gatland will go with the same players form last week that are available!

by SecretFly Tue 25 Jun 2013, 4:52 pm

Halfpenny today looked very forlorn and beat up today when circled by his off-day buddies after the game. Maybe that's just his way but it struck me.

Anyway, Phillips looks like the only man who will be sweating for his starting position in my opinion. And that's a pity because he's the kind of guy who will know he didn't put in a full tilt performance on Saturday and has the competitive spirit to right that if he gets a chance. Maybe he will get that chance but if a few guys drop out of the test starting line up and he remains in it, there'll be grumblings because I think everyone acknowledges that wasn't vintage Phillips on Saturday.

Youngs does look like the perfect injection of giddiness to keep the Aussies on their toes and speed up the delivery to the backs. The tempo of the next test must approach the punishing one that Wales used against England. Chug along rugby is too dangerous against Australia.

by lostinwales Tue 25 Jun 2013, 4:53 pm

Davies and BOD are great players, but on a good day Manu ripped the AB's apart. I dont think any other center on tour can do that. But you are gambling on it being a good day if you pick him. I'd suspect that we wont see him at all unless we lose the 2nd test

by valtrepkos Tue 25 Jun 2013, 6:14 pm

I think Gatland may be looking at manu for the bench in case he needs a game changer - and we know Gatland likes his big backs!

by ChequeredJersey Tue 25 Jun 2013, 6:16 pm

And Gatland isn't afraid to change a player's perceived best position!

by RubyGuby Tue 25 Jun 2013, 6:59 pm

Vunipola (if Corbs out)
Youngs
Jones

Parling
Jones

Lydiate
Warburton
Heaslip

Phillips
Sexton

Davies
BOD

Bowe
North
Halfpenny

With a bench of
Grant, Hibbard, Cole, Evans, SOB, Youngs, Farrell, Tuilagi.

Don't tell anyone you know the team thumbsup

by ChequeredJersey Tue 25 Jun 2013, 7:02 pm

I don't think cloning technology is far gone enough yet to have a replacement, fresh Phillips on the bench too, Ruby

by ChequeredJersey Tue 25 Jun 2013, 7:02 pm

And if it is, can we not just clone North?

by RubyGuby Tue 25 Jun 2013, 7:04 pm

Good point CJ - Well spotted - Iron Mike it is I'm afraid - sorry to disapoint thumbsup

by justified sinner Tue 25 Jun 2013, 7:53 pm

If we start with a Vunipola, Youngs, Jones, Jones, Parling tight 5 we will get murdered in the scrums. Mako can't scrum and the relatively light 2nd row won't make up for it, he gets hinged far too often and sometimes just goes straight back/to ground - penalty fest for Joubert.

With a kicker back for them Aus by 10.

by Feckless Rogue Tue 25 Jun 2013, 8:24 pm

I expect a conservative selection with no surprises. Players like Manu, Youngs and O'Brien may get their chance if the Lions fail to get over the line playing safe and it goes to a decider.

by RubyGuby Tue 25 Jun 2013, 10:39 pm

Don't forget who brought you this CJ: Wink

Re: Lions Backrow Dilema. Its Tipuric or Croft for me...!
by RubyGuby on Tue 18 Jun 2013 - 15:46

Corbs
Youngs
Adam
POC
AWJ
Croft
Heaslip
Warburton

Cole and Youngs off the bench between the 50 and 60 minute mark. 2nd TEST - AUS vs BRITISH & IRISH LIONS - 29th June - (KO-11:05 GMT) - Page 2 732107

2nd TEST - AUS vs BRITISH & IRISH LIONS - 29th June - (KO-11:05 GMT) - Page 2 732107

by Cyril Tue 25 Jun 2013, 10:41 pm

Ruby, you do tend to state the obvious though Smile

Gats isn't very hard to read!

by RubyGuby Tue 25 Jun 2013, 10:44 pm

You'll be surprised this weekend Cyril - Croft is out of the 23 thumbsup

by Scrumpy Wed 26 Jun 2013, 9:15 am

Why do people love to bash Croft, its a unfair reputation imo that he hangs out on the wing, his tackle rate is as good as anyone's, he might be a bit of a luxury to have in the team but this is the Lions after all.

by RubyGuby Wed 26 Jun 2013, 9:20 am

Victor - you have some selective attention here regarding Croft - Just reflect on what people have been saying about Lydiate, Warburton, Phillips and Ian Evans over the past 6 weeks. Croft is as good as any other back row it's just about getting the balance right

by nganboy Wed 26 Jun 2013, 10:11 am

Does no one think that Aus will improve more as they have finally played their first game together since Nov last year?

by Cyril Wed 26 Jun 2013, 10:13 am

nganboy wrote:Does no one think that Aus will improve more as they have finally played their first game together since Nov last year?

Quite possibly. With a decent kicker last week they could have won with a bit to spare.

by Scrumpy Wed 26 Jun 2013, 10:17 am

Yes, freighting to think they haven't played together for that long yet they should have won the 1st test, the Lions coaches need to make some tough selection calls Phillips was predictable/slow the Aussies know how to take him out of the game why Gatland is persisting with him is a mystery to me?

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 26 Jun 2013, 10:23 am

I think Gatland will stick with Phillips in the starting XV, but will (hopefully) be prepared to take him off sooner rather than later if he has another poor game.

Tuilagi and O'Driscoll in midfield. JD2 has been the best outside centre on tour, but Gatland won't drop O'Driscoll and Tuilagi looks more like Gatland's kind of 12 than JD2..

Back row could well be Lydiate, Warburton and Heaslip. I'd have Toby at number eight, but I don't see it happening.

by Scrumpy Wed 26 Jun 2013, 2:04 pm

I don't think the Lions can afford to give players time, the Aussie will hit back if we stick with the same team barring the injuries.

Gatland has to be ruthless otherwise this could end up like 2001.

by funnyExiledScot Wed 26 Jun 2013, 2:19 pm

I went for Lions by less than 7 last time round, and I'm going to go for the same again. It'll once more be close, but I think the Lions can improve a fair bit on last weekend (Phillips simply has to play better), and I think they'll be more familiar with Joubert's interpretations than they were with Pollock's. The Aussies will improve as well (I doubt they'll kick as badly), but I think the injuries will and have disrupted their development as a side.

The Lions will edge this one and take the series.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 26 Jun 2013, 2:22 pm

Does anyone have any idea who will kick at goal for the Wallabies?
JOC?
Beale?
That 12 who's name I simply can not spell/pronounce?

by ChequeredJersey Wed 26 Jun 2013, 2:33 pm

It will be Lealiifano, they said he was meant to be 1st choice kicker last week. Maybe Mogg for the long ones if he starts. Also, LLF is the best Aussie kicker in terms of kicks scored (2nd in S15 behinf Morne Steyn) and percentages (unless you count people who have taken fewer than 10 kicks), and obviously both Beale and O'Connor, whilst usually pretty good, had absolute shockers last week

by Scrumpy Wed 26 Jun 2013, 2:44 pm

Is the ball to blame, the Aussie aren't used to playing with Gilberts balls (ooo errr) Very Happy

by ChequeredJersey Wed 26 Jun 2013, 2:46 pm

They blamed the ground actually. Most observers are blaming their footwear, which certainly had an effect. I'm mostly blaming JOC's difficulties entirely changing the Aussie gameplan at 10 and struggling massively affecting his kicking (when Evans struggles to play his normal game i.e. against Sarries, he struggles to kick too) and Beale probably not practicing much kicking

by Scrumpy Wed 26 Jun 2013, 3:07 pm

Gareth Edwards says Phillips should retain his place and Matt Dawson says the Wallabies have worked him out and that Youngs should start.

I didn't see that coming! Whistle

by alive555 Wed 26 Jun 2013, 3:07 pm

Lions were going to win but now kurtley beale has new studs they will sneak it.

Thank u warren. furious

by ChequeredJersey Wed 26 Jun 2013, 3:13 pm

VictorU3 wrote:Gareth Edwards says Phillips should retain his place and Matt Dawson says the Wallabies have worked him out and that Youngs should start.

I didn't see that coming!

Solve the dilemma by starting Murray, obvs

by ChequeredJersey Wed 26 Jun 2013, 3:13 pm

Or Hogg, rumour has it he covers 9

by ChequeredJersey Wed 26 Jun 2013, 5:22 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:They blamed the ground actually. Most observers are blaming their footwear, which certainly had an effect. I'm mostly blaming JOC's difficulties entirely changing the Aussie gameplan at 10 and struggling massively affecting his kicking (when Evans struggles to play his normal game i.e. against Sarries, he struggles to kick too) and Beale probably not practicing much kicking

Also, this is JOC's excuse.

"In regards to his poor goalkicking, O’Connor revealed that a slight hamstrng injury had prevented him from doing much practice at all in the build-up to the game."

by ChequeredJersey Wed 26 Jun 2013, 5:23 pm

Seems silly of Deans to start a bloke who hasn't played much INT rugby at 10, at 10, after 18 months out of the INT game, a recent injury and if he also had a mild hamstring injury in the lead-up to the match

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 26 Jun 2013, 6:06 pm

It does a bit.

by glamorganalun Wed 26 Jun 2013, 6:39 pm

A lot of guys having a go at Phillips but some blame must go against the back row for not protecting him, he seemed to be under pressure thoughout the game hence getting caught a number of times. I thought his box kicking was poor but he is normally good at the bx kick, it it the same reason. Phillips is much stronger than the other scrum halves, I suspect he is better suited under these conditions. If we change the scrum half we should change the back row, I can't see it happenning.

by ChequeredJersey Wed 26 Jun 2013, 6:47 pm

glamorganalun wrote:A lot of guys having a go at Phillips but some blame must go against the back row for not protecting him, he seemed to be under pressure thoughout the game hence getting caught a number of times. I thought his box kicking was poor but he is normally good at the bx kick, it it the same reason. Phillips is much stronger than the other scrum halves, I suspect he is better suited under these conditions. If we change the scrum half we should change the back row, I can't see it happenning.

I might be misremembering but I cannot remember feeling that Phillips was particularly missing backrow protection. He was under pressure in attack because Mowen in particular seemed to be given the job to man-mark him at rucks, which I'm not sure the backrow could avoid. I do however think that a certain amount of the problems were with Gatland's tactics not just Phillips' performance and I am sure he will play better when he starts again on Saturday. But he can't try too hard to prove that last week was an aberration. If he gets himself into a direct contest with Genia, he is likely to lose and compromise the entire team. On that basis you may not notice him being his usual hard-running self taking on defenders on his lonesome on Saturday, and that isn't him playing poorly, that will be an indicator of him playing intelligently

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