2nd TEST - AUS vs BRITISH & IRISH LIONS - 29th June - (KO-11:05 GMT)

First topic message reminder :

2nd Test build-up thread
 
Can the Lions finish the job?
Will Aus bounch back (like we know they can)?
Will the Ref know the rules?
 
Aus have called up George Smith, Jesse Mogg and centre Ben Tapuai but still No Cooper?
(talk about shooting yourself in the foot!)
 
15. Halfpenny,
14. Bowe,
13. BOD,
12. Davies,
11.North,
10. Sexton,
9. Youngs;

1. Vunipola
2. Youngs,
3. Jones,
4. AWJ,
5. Parling,
6. Lydiate,
7. Warburton,
8. Heaslip

Replacements:
16 Hibbard, 17 Grant, 18 Cole, 19 Croft, 20 O'Brien, 21 Murray, 22 Farrell, 23 Cuthbert


Australia
15 Kurtley Beale (Melbourne Rebels)
14 Israel Folau (NSW)
13 Adam Ashley-Cooper (NSW)
12 Christian Leali'ifano (ACT Brumbies)
11 Joe Tomane (Brumbies)
10 James O'Connor (Melbourne Rebels)
9 Will Genia (Reds)
8 Wycliff Palu (NSW)
7 Michael Hooper (NSW)
6 Ben Mowen (ACT)
5 Kane Douglas (NSW)
4 James Horwill (Reds - Cap)
3 Ben Alexander (ACT)
2 Stephen Moore (ACT)
1 Benn Robinson (NSW)

16 Saia Fainga'a (Reds)
17 James Slipper (Reds)
18 Sekope Kepu (NSW)
19 Rob Simmons (Reds)
20 Liam Gill (Reds)
21 Nick Phipps (Rebels)
22 Rob Horne (NSW)
23 Jesse Mogg (Brumbies)

 
For those wanting to see it again and again and again etc.....http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=GEORGE+NORTHS+LIONS+TRY&view=detail&mid=64E92B2D2B1B4128364264E92B2D2B1B41283642&first=0&FORM=NVPFVR&qpvt=GEORGE+NORTHS+LIONS+TRY

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Linebreaker wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Feckless Rogue wrote:Did I see Horwill crying after the final whistle? I always liked him. But I like him even more if he cries after a win because he loves his country so much.

Yes he did cry, very much like the prisoner off to the chair :)won't be there next week lol

Maybe he had some of Mako's DNA in his eyes?   

Possibly, but Horwill. despite his love of cranium exploration under less than clean conditions is a good lad.  
Unfortunately he's Aussie  and will be acting out the criminal of the old ... ex-Welsh Prime-Minister place some Captain found hahahaha

Congratulations. Your streak for blurting out absolute rubbish continues full steam ahead.

Aside from the drama at the end, I found the game fairly tedious for the most part but I guess they can't all be spectacles. The Lions started with an intensity that I thought would see them through. Like last week, I thought the better team lost.

The first 5 mins was pretty special from the lions. We even turned down our first kick at goal!!

What happened after that?

Problem with today's performance is that nobody really stood out to demand selection next week and nobody really had a shocker. Some people are trying to blame Vunipola, Parling and even Croft for the defeat but the simple fact is that the Aussies were well on top for most of the second half. We didn't play intelligent rugby, witness the aimless kick by BOD (as he admitted himself after the game) and the inability to win the crucial lineout near the end, or the decision to kick when they should have realised it was extremely unlikely he would make it (who was captain at the end?).

Think he needs to make changes to make us more of a threat with the ball in hand. To me that means Roberts or Tuilagi to come in, O'Brien and Falatau to come in (don't think Heaslip has done enough over the two games) and Tipuric to replace Warburton (if he's injured - thought he was excellent in 2nd half today) and Corbs back in if he's fit.

The best chance for the Lions is to blow the Aus pack off the park and go for a big pack and not have a flakey LH. For me Gray and Evans must come into the squad to replace Parling and Croft, why have two 6's on the bench. Warburton is likely to be out so we need to beef up the team to take into account of Tipuric , Youngs played OK but Hibbard will help Adam and Grant as our scrum has been mixed, we nearly lost last week because of the scrum late on.

I think Murray or Phillips will start with the other on the bench, Faletau may replace Heaslip with SOB on the bench.

If Roberts is fit he should he should replace BOD, he and Davies have a good understanding lacking with the current centres in attack. Bowe had a very good game today and worked hard, would have liked Curthbert to come on in the second half as the Lions had little or no cutting edge with him coming through in mid field.

I hope Corbs is fit at LH even if he is on the bench

It must have pained you to include an Englishman, even if it was only on the bench  

jelly wrote:Problem with today's performance is that nobody really stood out to demand selection next week and nobody really had a shocker. Some people are trying to blame Vunipola, Parling and even Croft for the defeat but the simple fact is that the Aussies were well on top for most of the second half. We didn't play intelligent rugby, witness the aimless kick by BOD (as he admitted himself after the game) and the inability to win the crucial lineout near the end, or the decision to kick when they should have realised it was extremely unlikely he would make it (who was captain at the end?).

Think he needs to make changes to make us more of a threat with the ball in hand. To me that means Roberts or Tuilagi to come in, O'Brien and Falatau to come in (don't think Heaslip has done enough over the two games) and Tipuric to replace Warburton (if he's injured - thought he was excellent in 2nd half today) and Corbs back in if he's fit.

Pressure is getting to both teams - you need to realise what the stakes are here - hence kicking away and at times making rash decisions. When you add the insane defence and battles at the breakdowns, both sides were well aware that taking the ball into contact behind the gainline would mean turnovers or conceding penalties, hence the type of play on display.

Gatland will go for wise heads in the third test that while BOD wasn't great today he'll be starting. I'd go with BOD/Roberts starting myself, and although I'm a great fan of SOB I'd start with Lydiate - he was immense once more.

The Lions need to break it open. They had no penetration. And the attacking game plan relied on predictable and randomly effective up and unders.

Drop Sexton for Farrell. Bring in Tuilagi for O'Driscoll.

littlejohn wrote:

jelly wrote:Problem with today's performance is that nobody really stood out to demand selection next week and nobody really had a shocker. Some people are trying to blame Vunipola, Parling and even Croft for the defeat but the simple fact is that the Aussies were well on top for most of the second half. We didn't play intelligent rugby, witness the aimless kick by BOD (as he admitted himself after the game) and the inability to win the crucial lineout near the end, or the decision to kick when they should have realised it was extremely unlikely he would make it (who was captain at the end?).

Think he needs to make changes to make us more of a threat with the ball in hand. To me that means Roberts or Tuilagi to come in, O'Brien and Falatau to come in (don't think Heaslip has done enough over the two games) and Tipuric to replace Warburton (if he's injured - thought he was excellent in 2nd half today) and Corbs back in if he's fit.

Pressure is getting to both teams - you need to realise what the stakes are here - hence kicking away and at times making rash decisions. When you add the insane defence and battles at the breakdowns, both sides were well aware that taking the ball into contact behind the gainline would mean turnovers or conceding penalties, hence the type of play on display.

Gatland will go for wise heads in the third test that while BOD wasn't great today he'll be starting. I'd go with BOD/Roberts starting myself, and although I'm a great fan of SOB I'd start with Lydiate - he was immense once more.

I understand that, which is why it was more frustrating that one of silly errors was by O'Driscoll. We never really got into their half for any sustained pressure in the second half and it is a worry that in both the games so far the Aussies have looked by far the stronger at the end, against the pre-test predictions that our bench would be stronger and our fitness far superior.

Sexton has been poor on tour so far.

Here it is for next week

15. Halfpenny,
14. Bowe,
13. BOD,
12. Roberts,
11.North,
10. Sexton,
9. Phillips;

1. Corbisiero
2. Hibbard
3. Jones,
4. AWJ,
5. Evans
6. SOB
7. Tipuric
8. Faletau

Replacements:
16 Youngs, 17 Grant, 18 Cole, 19 Croft, 20 Grey, 21 Murray, 22 Farrell, 23 Cuthbert

Clearly the best team won, the Lions forwards were poor in the set piece in particular. Vunipola is not a starting test prop, he got absolutely mullered in the first half!

The biggest problem for the Lions though was the bench, BOD was out on his feet with 10mins to go but with no centre on the bench he stayed on and got caught out of position for the winning try. Also Warburton going off and Croft coming on affected the breakdown.

For next week I would bring in Roberts, Phillips and Corbisero (all if fit) for BOD, Youngs and Vunipola. I would also be tempted to bring Gray or Evans in for Parling. On the bench I would have Vunipola and Best (Hibbard does not make a positive impact), Youngs instead of Murray, one of Gray, Evans or Parling in place of Croft and BOD in place of Cuthbert.

I think its time to get OF on for the last game.

I thought sexton was better than many did today- However still looks a shadow of what OF can do at the moment

mystiroakey wrote:The first 5 mins was pretty special from the lions. We even turned down our first kick at goal!!

What happened after that?

Looked like we were going to obliterate them for the opening 5 minutes! Then it all fizzled away.

Seagultaf wrote:Clearly the best team won, the Lions forwards were poor in the set piece in particular. Vunipola is not a starting test prop, he got absolutely mullered in the first half!

The biggest problem for the Lions though was the bench, BOD was out on his feet with 10mins to go but with no centre on the bench he stayed on and got caught out of position for the winning try. Also Warburton going off and Croft coming on affected the breakdown.

For next week I would bring in Roberts, Phillips and Corbisero (all if fit) for BOD, Youngs and Vunipola. I would also be tempted to bring Gray or Evans in for Parling. On the bench I would have Vunipola and Best (Hibbard does not make a positive impact), Youngs instead of Murray, one of Gray, Evans or Parling in place of Croft and BOD in place of Cuthbert.

BoD made his tackle for that try,it was Davies who missed his man.

Yep....it was Davies who missed the tackle.

9. Phillips
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Roberts
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Halfpenny

20. Youngs
21. Farrell
22. Tew Largy

The backs picked are irrelevant although Roberts is greatly missed. It's kicking possession away that has cost them.

The aussies have the confidence and belief to run the ball back - we don't or didn't - Simples

Why are people calling for Roberts to come in

Before he was injured he was very very poor.

Because he is our only inside centre specialist? Though, I don't buy that, I think JD2 is a perfectly good 12 really

Although he played poorly today

Yep. Same failures being picked yet again. That'll work!

Cripe. I was at my older son's 7s tournament and didn't see the last 60 minnutes of the match. Did record it however.

Don't tell me how out turned out! I did predict it would come down to a final kick............

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:Clearly the best team won, the Lions forwards were poor in the set piece in particular. Vunipola is not a starting test prop, he got absolutely mullered in the first half!

The biggest problem for the Lions though was the bench, BOD was out on his feet with 10mins to go but with no centre on the bench he stayed on and got caught out of position for the winning try. Also Warburton going off and Croft coming on affected the breakdown.

For next week I would bring in Roberts, Phillips and Corbisero (all if fit) for BOD, Youngs and Vunipola. I would also be tempted to bring Gray or Evans in for Parling. On the bench I would have Vunipola and Best (Hibbard does not make a positive impact), Youngs instead of Murray, one of Gray, Evans or Parling in place of Croft and BOD in place of Cuthbert.

BoD made his tackle for that try,it was Davies who missed his man.

Watch it again.

BOD was knackered, he got caught defending too close to the ruck leaving Davies to defend a 3 against 2 overlap with a 1/3 of the pitch to work with. Davies had to abandon the drift defence to close down BODs man leaving space on his outside for the try scoring break. The Lions defence system is simple but if one man does not do his job? Watch it again!

BOD should have been taken off and Farrell put at 12, he is 34 and was blowing out of his ar$e!

Seagultaf wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:Clearly the best team won, the Lions forwards were poor in the set piece in particular. Vunipola is not a starting test prop, he got absolutely mullered in the first half!

The biggest problem for the Lions though was the bench, BOD was out on his feet with 10mins to go but with no centre on the bench he stayed on and got caught out of position for the winning try. Also Warburton going off and Croft coming on affected the breakdown.

For next week I would bring in Roberts, Phillips and Corbisero (all if fit) for BOD, Youngs and Vunipola. I would also be tempted to bring Gray or Evans in for Parling. On the bench I would have Vunipola and Best (Hibbard does not make a positive impact), Youngs instead of Murray, one of Gray, Evans or Parling in place of Croft and BOD in place of Cuthbert.

BoD made his tackle for that try,it was Davies who missed his man.

Watch it again.

BOD was knackered, he got caught defending too close to the ruck leaving Davies to defend a 3 against 2 overlap with a 1/3 of the pitch to work with. Davies had to abandon the drift defence to close down BODs man leaving space on his outside for the try scoring break. The Lions defence system is simple but if one man does not do his job? Watch it again!

BOD should have been taken off and Farrell put at 12, he is 34 and was blowing out of his ar$e!

But he didn't as BOD made his tackle. Davies should have pushed out a little further. Instead he hesitated and the was too much room for AAC

Seagultaf wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:Clearly the best team won, the Lions forwards were poor in the set piece in particular. Vunipola is not a starting test prop, he got absolutely mullered in the first half!

The biggest problem for the Lions though was the bench, BOD was out on his feet with 10mins to go but with no centre on the bench he stayed on and got caught out of position for the winning try. Also Warburton going off and Croft coming on affected the breakdown.

For next week I would bring in Roberts, Phillips and Corbisero (all if fit) for BOD, Youngs and Vunipola. I would also be tempted to bring Gray or Evans in for Parling. On the bench I would have Vunipola and Best (Hibbard does not make a positive impact), Youngs instead of Murray, one of Gray, Evans or Parling in place of Croft and BOD in place of Cuthbert.

BoD made his tackle for that try,it was Davies who missed his man.

Watch it again.

BOD was knackered, he got caught defending too close to the ruck leaving Davies to defend a 3 against 2 overlap with a 1/3 of the pitch to work with. Davies had to abandon the drift defence to close down BODs man leaving space on his outside for the try scoring break. The Lions defence system is simple but if one man does not do his job? Watch it again!

Yes you are right I watched it just now.

I agree with the changes you would make, seems a concurrent theme, many are saying the exact same. I would be interested to see if one of the centres was a better option as a third back replacement rather than just a winger...?

Yes, as I pointed out in the article which was mis-posted into the Rugby section (rather than international), you could see it in the destroyed expression in BoD's face that another chance for a series victory with the Lions had slipped away - but this time he knew it was his fault. I wouldn't be surprised to see him announce retirement this week.

Ah lad you're being very dramatic now. It is only the day after the game so understandable but come on.

First of all it quite simply wasn't BOD's fault. 

1) JOC came from right hand side to left hand side of the ruck and thus was very deep.
2) You can see BOD point outwards to Davies telling him to stay out
3) BOD tackles JOC on the 5metre line, it wasn't as if Davies was waiting til the last second.

Davies is a great player, one of my favourite Welsh lads actually, but didn't have a good game yesterday. To say it is anything like BOD's fault is just wrong I'm afraid, defensively it doesn't make sense. Davies was just caught in two minds and then caught in no mans land

VictorU3 wrote:Sexton has been poor on tour so far.

Wouldn't really agree or disagree. Think it's tough to judge when he's clearly been told to boot every ball he catches straight up in the air.

Seagultaf wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:Clearly the best team won, the Lions forwards were poor in the set piece in particular. Vunipola is not a starting test prop, he got absolutely mullered in the first half!

The biggest problem for the Lions though was the bench, BOD was out on his feet with 10mins to go but with no centre on the bench he stayed on and got caught out of position for the winning try. Also Warburton going off and Croft coming on affected the breakdown.

For next week I would bring in Roberts, Phillips and Corbisero (all if fit) for BOD, Youngs and Vunipola. I would also be tempted to bring Gray or Evans in for Parling. On the bench I would have Vunipola and Best (Hibbard does not make a positive impact), Youngs instead of Murray, one of Gray, Evans or Parling in place of Croft and BOD in place of Cuthbert.

BoD made his tackle for that try,it was Davies who missed his man.

Watch it again.

BOD was knackered, he got caught defending too close to the ruck leaving Davies to defend a 3 against 2 overlap with a 1/3 of the pitch to work with. Davies had to abandon the drift defence to close down BODs man leaving space on his outside for the try scoring break. The Lions defence system is simple but if one man does not do his job? Watch it again!

BOD should have been taken off and Farrell put at 12, he is 34 and was blowing out of his ar$e!

Horseshhit.

Bod was knackered because he put in a non-stop performance where his tackle rate was much higher and more accurate than his fellow centre.  O'Driscoll - 12 stops...no misses.  Two turnovers. (second highest to Sexton of all guys) Two defenders beaten (no guy higher).  Best Lions centre performance of the day because he put in the workrate.  If your coach is planning a containment game you don't start trying to run it in attack.  Where was North and Bowe coming in looking to up the tempo?  Nowhere, they had their orders too.  You do your duty, however stale you think that duty is.  O'Driscoll did his .... at 34, putting younger men to shame.

If you're going to mouth off...pick a better researched target.

Yeah but BOD had that dodgy offload/pass that went forward to he opposition...so FAIL. He must have been rubbish.

Surprised that the lineout hasn't come in for more criticism. The throwing/lifting was poor resulting in scrappy ball and no time for the half backs to drive the game.

Campese summed up the Davies' mistake perfectly on the radio by pointing out he was ball watching rather than realising his man had drifted away from him.

SecretFly wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:Clearly the best team won, the Lions forwards were poor in the set piece in particular. Vunipola is not a starting test prop, he got absolutely mullered in the first half!

The biggest problem for the Lions though was the bench, BOD was out on his feet with 10mins to go but with no centre on the bench he stayed on and got caught out of position for the winning try. Also Warburton going off and Croft coming on affected the breakdown.

For next week I would bring in Roberts, Phillips and Corbisero (all if fit) for BOD, Youngs and Vunipola. I would also be tempted to bring Gray or Evans in for Parling. On the bench I would have Vunipola and Best (Hibbard does not make a positive impact), Youngs instead of Murray, one of Gray, Evans or Parling in place of Croft and BOD in place of Cuthbert.

BoD made his tackle for that try,it was Davies who missed his man.

Watch it again.

BOD was knackered, he got caught defending too close to the ruck leaving Davies to defend a 3 against 2 overlap with a 1/3 of the pitch to work with. Davies had to abandon the drift defence to close down BODs man leaving space on his outside for the try scoring break. The Lions defence system is simple but if one man does not do his job? Watch it again!

BOD should have been taken off and Farrell put at 12, he is 34 and was blowing out of his ar$e!

Horseshhit.

Bod was knackered because he put in a non-stop performance where his tackle rate was much higher and more accurate than his fellow centre.  O'Driscoll - 12 stops...no misses.  Two turnovers. (second highest to Sexton of all guys) Two defenders beaten (no guy higher).  Best Lions centre performance of the day because he put in the workrate.  If your coach is planning a containment game you don't start trying to run it in attack.  Where was North and Bowe coming in looking to up the tempo?  Nowhere, they had their orders too.  You do your duty, however stale you think that duty is.  O'Driscoll did his .... at 34, putting younger men to shame.

If you're going to mouth off...pick a better researched target.

I say it as I see it, BOD is the best northern hemisphere back of a generation but now past his best. He was absolutely knackered and should have been subbed, a fresh player would have held his defensive line and the try would not have been scored.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Ah lad you're being very dramatic now. It is only the day after the game so understandable but come on.

First of all it quite simply wasn't BOD's fault. 

1) JOC came from right hand side to left hand side of the ruck and thus was very deep.
2) You can see BOD point outwards to Davies telling him to stay out
3) BOD tackles JOC on the 5metre line, it wasn't as if Davies was waiting til the last second.

Davies is a great player, one of my favourite Welsh lads actually, but didn't have a good game yesterday. To say it is anything like BOD's fault is just wrong I'm afraid, defensively it doesn't make sense. Davies was just caught in two minds and then caught in no mans land

Watch the replay, BOD was pointing because he was out of position if Davies had stayed wide, the ball carrier would have strolled through the gap outside BOD. In the end BOD only got to make the tackle because Davies closed him down.

HammerofThunor wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:Clearly the best team won, the Lions forwards were poor in the set piece in particular. Vunipola is not a starting test prop, he got absolutely mullered in the first half!

The biggest problem for the Lions though was the bench, BOD was out on his feet with 10mins to go but with no centre on the bench he stayed on and got caught out of position for the winning try. Also Warburton going off and Croft coming on affected the breakdown.

For next week I would bring in Roberts, Phillips and Corbisero (all if fit) for BOD, Youngs and Vunipola. I would also be tempted to bring Gray or Evans in for Parling. On the bench I would have Vunipola and Best (Hibbard does not make a positive impact), Youngs instead of Murray, one of Gray, Evans or Parling in place of Croft and BOD in place of Cuthbert.

BoD made his tackle for that try,it was Davies who missed his man.

Watch it again.

BOD was knackered, he got caught defending too close to the ruck leaving Davies to defend a 3 against 2 overlap with a 1/3 of the pitch to work with. Davies had to abandon the drift defence to close down BODs man leaving space on his outside for the try scoring break. The Lions defence system is simple but if one man does not do his job? Watch it again!

BOD should have been taken off and Farrell put at 12, he is 34 and was blowing out of his ar$e!

But he didn't as BOD made his tackle. Davies should have pushed out a little further. Instead he hesitated and the was too much room for AAC

As I have said to others, watch the replay. BOD was out of position, too close to the ruck leaving a 3 on 2 overlap, with 1/3 of the pitch to play in it was an almost impossible position to defend. BOD only got to make the tackle because Davies closed the ball carrier down, if he had drifted the ball carrier would have strolled through the huge gap between BOD & Davies.

Yeah.... and had Sexton taken Halfpenny's shot he would have scored the winning penalty.  Correct?
Next week I think Cuthbert should be taken off in the 65th minute because in the 70th Beale is going to slide past him for the winning try.

Oops!  I've given you all an insight into who is going to be on the wing.  I'll keep the rest secret.

And so the blaming who for the loss starts even before series is over, least ROG will be pleased as it takes heat of him over 09   

Precisely. The United Colours Of Lions always begin to fade at this point in the tours.

Prepare the perfect blueprint for why none of our guys were to blame for the disaster.

I have two files of good stuff already

I don't think Davies or Bod could have stopped Ashley-Cooper - The try was created a few moves before that and A-C had a lot of room to run into as the phases had stretched the defence and Aus had a lot of options out wide, Bod and Davies were left to try and plug too many holes. Aus were going forward in wave after wave and recycling and getting over the gain line. It was good play from them and the gaps were there because of the earlier phase work. Last week someone said 1/2 p was at fault for not tackling Folau as he went over the line; Folau was in full flow and 1/2p was flying across a couple of yards from the line - He never stood a chance. Trys are created a long way before the touch down and people need to look back a bit before blaming players who are trying to defend the impossible on occasion.

Three on three no try, two defending three that close to the line, big problem.

A fresh BOD or even Farrell would have plugged that hole. Not BODs fault, he is at the end of an illustrious career, the Lions management should have spotted that he was out on his feet and subbed him.

none of the players are to blame so far. Certainly none have had brain farts on ROGs scale anyway.

For me blame is currently rapping on the door of the Coaches hotel room.

Seagultaf wrote:
Watch it again.

BOD was knackered, he got caught defending too close to the ruck leaving Davies to defend a 3 against 2 overlap with a 1/3 of the pitch to work with. Davies had to abandon the drift defence to close down BODs man leaving space on his outside for the try scoring break. The Lions defence system is simple but if one man does not do his job? Watch it again!

BOD should have been taken off and Farrell put at 12, he is 34 and was blowing out of his ar$e!

Watched it again,there was no overlap it was a 3 on 3 and Davies didn't trust BoD to make his tackle.A 3 on 3 defense is simple but Davies doesn't cover his man,BoD made his tackle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cETSHAnswos#t=470s

You can see from this angle that there is clearly a winger outside Davies so it can't have been a 3 on 2.

formerly known as Sam wrote:http://www.espn.co.uk/lions-tour-2013/rugby/match/155514.html

Match stats for anyone interested.

Parling, Mako and BOD were animals in defence.

Ok, so being a sad individual I just rewatched the game focusing on Parlings 'tackles'.

I made it 13 made and 1 missed.

The miss was fairly crucial as it was in the 75th minute on Genia allowing him to cross the gainline in the build up to the try. Of the 13 tackles he made, he stopped the ball carrier on the gainline 3 times. On the other 10 Australia crossed the gainline and either offloaded or recylcled, with 1 exception where another Lion came in and got his hands on the ball and the Aussie ball carrier was pinged for not releasing. Overall I would estimate that he was about -12 to -15 metres in terms of how far the ball carriers got across the gainline.

14 (or 13 and a miss) is all well and good, but actually the majority of the tackles were pretty ineffective.

How does that compare with Jones?

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:
Watch it again.

BOD was knackered, he got caught defending too close to the ruck leaving Davies to defend a 3 against 2 overlap with a 1/3 of the pitch to work with. Davies had to abandon the drift defence to close down BODs man leaving space on his outside for the try scoring break. The Lions defence system is simple but if one man does not do his job? Watch it again!

BOD should have been taken off and Farrell put at 12, he is 34 and was blowing out of his ar$e!

Watched it again,there was no overlap it was a 3 on 3 and Davies didn't trust BoD to make his tackle.A 3 on 3 defense is simple but Davies doesn't cover his man,BoD made his tackle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cETSHAnswos#t=470s

You can see from this angle that there is clearly a winger outside Davies so it can't have been a 3 on 2.

Davies wasn't worried about BOD on his right, he was watching Joc run towards him which gave space for AAC to walk through. Very simple and classic move by the aussies who created the space very well in the lead up.

HammerofThunor wrote:How does that compare with Jones?

Not sure mate, was concentrating on Parling.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:
Watch it again.

BOD was knackered, he got caught defending too close to the ruck leaving Davies to defend a 3 against 2 overlap with a 1/3 of the pitch to work with. Davies had to abandon the drift defence to close down BODs man leaving space on his outside for the try scoring break. The Lions defence system is simple but if one man does not do his job? Watch it again!

BOD should have been taken off and Farrell put at 12, he is 34 and was blowing out of his ar$e!

Watched it again,there was no overlap it was a 3 on 3 and Davies didn't trust BoD to make his tackle.A 3 on 3 defense is simple but Davies doesn't cover his man,BoD made his tackle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cETSHAnswos#t=470s

You can see from this angle that there is clearly a winger outside Davies so it can't have been a 3 on 2.

Thanks for supplying the clip, which is fascinating. You're right it was 3 against 3 - so a damn shame the try was scored. But Connor had got far away from BOD, which was why JD tried to close him down. With JD bang in front of him, Connor slowed down to make the delay pass to AAC, now in a big gap. He made the pass, then BOD, who was chasing from the side, tackled him. By then the damage was done.

It all happened in the blink of an eye. You could say it was poor co-ordination, You could say JD left a big gap. You could say BOD was on the wrong side of Connor. You could say it was sharp thinking by Genia to change the direction of play.

My view is that if JD had stayed wide, Connor could well  have gone over himself.

Let's call it a try designed to be scored.

As I always say, think also about the players trying to score as much as the players trying to defend.  They both have a job to do and sometimes it's a score and sometimes it's a try saving tackle.

That's rugby.  The Aussies forced the error, or forced the defenders into a two choice predicament - as they train to do.

SecretFly wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:Clearly the best team won, the Lions forwards were poor in the set piece in particular. Vunipola is not a starting test prop, he got absolutely mullered in the first half!

The biggest problem for the Lions though was the bench, BOD was out on his feet with 10mins to go but with no centre on the bench he stayed on and got caught out of position for the winning try. Also Warburton going off and Croft coming on affected the breakdown.

For next week I would bring in Roberts, Phillips and Corbisero (all if fit) for BOD, Youngs and Vunipola. I would also be tempted to bring Gray or Evans in for Parling. On the bench I would have Vunipola and Best (Hibbard does not make a positive impact), Youngs instead of Murray, one of Gray, Evans or Parling in place of Croft and BOD in place of Cuthbert.

BoD made his tackle for that try,it was Davies who missed his man.

Watch it again.

BOD was knackered, he got caught defending too close to the ruck leaving Davies to defend a 3 against 2 overlap with a 1/3 of the pitch to work with. Davies had to abandon the drift defence to close down BODs man leaving space on his outside for the try scoring break. The Lions defence system is simple but if one man does not do his job? Watch it again!

BOD should have been taken off and Farrell put at 12, he is 34 and was blowing out of his ar$e!

Horseshhit.

Bod was knackered because he put in a non-stop performance where his tackle rate was much higher and more accurate than his fellow centre.  O'Driscoll - 12 stops...no misses.  Two turnovers. (second highest to Sexton of all guys) Two defenders beaten (no guy higher).  Best Lions centre performance of the day because he put in the workrate.  If your coach is planning a containment game you don't start trying to run it in attack.  Where was North and Bowe coming in looking to up the tempo?  Nowhere, they had their orders too.  You do your duty, however stale you think that duty is.  O'Driscoll did his .... at 34, putting younger men to shame.

If you're going to mouth off...pick a better researched target.

"Tackles"
BOD tackles - look at them again 5 out of the 12 were "taps" that didn't stop the man at all (espn category definitions are appalling on a like for like comparison)
Davies tackles............ actually one more than espn reported at 8 and the missed tackles (3)  well 2 were pretty hard to blame 100% why you may ask.... look where BOD was positioned and where Davies had to be to make the tackle.

however as far as your "non-stop performance" well lets look the term performance.... why not include metres made as a performance indicator
BOD - 7 metres
Davies - 12 metres

Ahhhh cherry picking the stats again are we (well done!)

So stats smatch!!, look at the match again and take a view why Davies wasn't that confident that BOD might not have made the tackle count

"If you are going to mouth off"............ well watch the match thoroughly and don't rely on a stats site that is notorious for its poor data classification

flyhalffactory wrote:

"Tackles"
BOD tackles - look at them again 5 out of the 12 were "taps" that didn't stop the man at all (espn category definitions are appalling on a like for like comparison)
Davies tackles............ actually one more than espn reported at 8 and the missed tackles (3)  well 2 were pretty hard to blame 100% why you may ask.... look where BOD was positioned and where Davies had to be to make the tackle.

however as far as your "non-stop performance" well lets look the term performance.... why not include metres made as a performance indicator
BOD - 7 metres
Davies - 12 metres

Ahhhh cherry picking the stats again are we (well done!)

So stats smatch!!, look at the match again and take a view why Davies wasn't that confident that BOD might not have made the tackle count

"If you are going to mouth off"............ well watch the match thoroughly and don't rely on a stats site that is notorious for its poor data classification

Horseshhit again I'm afraid, fly.

Them bold men at ESPN, their stats don't work for BOD because they were only 'taps'.... and they lie about Davies's because ...well, BOD made him miss a few...which they didn't alert us to in the BadBODWatch stats.  Bad BOD again.  The horrendous performance of his just adds up to epic proportions.  

Now do the tap (and no genuine tackle) stats for all players during the entire tour and let's see just how clinical these guys are that are being told they have better stats than the guys playing in the tests.  Stats are being used to try and get players onto the test team and the same stats are being ridiculed because they don't agree with certain theories put out in these here friendly everyone-is-to-blame-but-our-guy threads.

So the ESPN stats are ridiculous but you say let's have one all the same in the BOD v Davis meters made one?  Because they're the only numbers you see there that seem to give Davies the edge on BOD?  They're quotable because they're positive?

Okay, lets forget what you said about ESPN stats and talk about the metres made then.  The stat is metres made with ball in hand, not how much a player ran during the course of a game.  That's performance.  That's workrate.  And old man O'Driscoll was as knackered at the end of the game as any of the other players who had to put in high tackle rates.  You work hard, you tire.  

But yeah, five metres extra with ball in hand is a very big gap between a 25 year old man and a 34 year old one who has been through far more raging battles and injuries in his career than the young sprightly fella.  

So your theory is Davies was minding poor BOD through the encounter, not making his own tackles because he was trying to jelp BOD make his.  Not beating his defenders more than BOD because he was too busy instructing BOD as to how to beat his.  Not making more turnovers than BOD because he was training BOD how to do it.  Hands on experience - "Get in there BOD and try it for yourself after seeing me do it".  What a lovely young lad to be so willing to help out.

And finally BOD catches his target in the Aussie try build up, Davies misses his and BOD's stats get a duck-egg coz he was to blame - fact.  Fact because of the very scientific reason that Fly simply thinks so.

Grand.  Thanks for the stat update from a real stat professional who actually looks at games and makes accurate readings.  They should hire you on ESPN instead and tidy up their BadBODWatch stat mess.

SecretFly wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

"Tackles"
BOD tackles - look at them again 5 out of the 12 were "taps" that didn't stop the man at all (espn category definitions are appalling on a like for like comparison)
Davies tackles............ actually one more than espn reported at 8 and the missed tackles (3)  well 2 were pretty hard to blame 100% why you may ask.... look where BOD was positioned and where Davies had to be to make the tackle.

however as far as your "non-stop performance" well lets look the term performance.... why not include metres made as a performance indicator
BOD - 7 metres
Davies - 12 metres

Ahhhh cherry picking the stats again are we (well done!)

So stats smatch!!, look at the match again and take a view why Davies wasn't that confident that BOD might not have made the tackle count

"If you are going to mouth off"............ well watch the match thoroughly and don't rely on a stats site that is notorious for its poor data classification

Horseshhit again I'm afraid, fly.

Them bold men at ESPN, their stats don't work for BOD because they were only 'taps'.... and they lie about Davies's because ...well, BOD made him miss a few...which they didn't alert us to in the BadBODWatch stats.  Bad BOD again.  The horrendous performance of his just adds up to epic proportions.  

Now do the tap (and no genuine tackle) stats for all players during the entire tour and let's see just how clinical these guys are that are being told they have better stats than the guys playing in the tests.  Stats are being used to try and get players onto the test team and the same stats are being ridiculed because they don't agree with certain theories put out in these here friendly everyone-is-to-blame-but-our-guy threads.

So the ESPN stats are ridiculous but you say let's have one all the same in the BOD v Davis meters made one?  Because they're the only numbers you see there that seem to give Davies the edge on BOD?  They're quotable because they're positive?

Okay, lets forget what you said about ESPN stats and talk about the metres made then.  The stat is metres made with ball in hand, not how much a player ran during the course of a game.  That's performance.  That's workrate.  And old man O'Driscoll was as knackered at the end of the game as any of the other players who had to put in high tackle rates.  You work hard, you tire.  

But yeah, five metres extra with ball in hand is a very big gap between a 25 year old man and a 34 year old one who has been through far more raging battles and injuries in his career than the young sprightly fella.  

So your theory is Davies was minding poor BOD through the encounter, not making his own tackles because he was trying to jelp BOD make his.  Not beating his defenders more than BOD because he was too busy instructing BOD as to how to beat his.  Not making more turnovers than BOD because he was training BOD how to do it.  Hands on experience - "Get in there BOD and try it for yourself after seeing me do it".  What a lovely young lad to be so willing to help out.

And finally BOD catches his target in the Aussie try build up, Davies misses his and BOD's stats get a duck-egg coz he was to blame - fact.  Fact because of the very scientific reason that Fly simply thinks so.

Grand.  Thanks for the stat update from a real stat professional who actually looks at games and makes accurate readings.  They should hire you on ESPN instead and tidy up their BadBODWatch stat mess.

I have never heard such nonsense in my entire life, and I have met some serious Bullsh***ers in my time but you kinda take the biscuit.

LOOK AT THE UTUBE CLIP https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQuD6wOePeM
Pause it around 3.06 mins it will show Davies looking at BOD (yet again) "hey Brian mate ahem, hello!! there are THREE AUSSIES and TWO LIONS with 5 metres to stop them...... carry it on and you will see one of Davies' "missed" tackles as he was left yet again in no mans land while waiting for BOD to pick up his man, which he didn't (BOD miss-tackle espn?......... no of course no because he didn't even get to O'Connor before he offloaded it, so his perfect tackle count remains intact whilst the stats reveal that Foxy missed the tackle TRIPE).

If you want me to send you the other clips which will show you other "miss tackles" by Davies and where the defensive line was breached then I can.

I agree Davies had a poor game, but to suggest that BOD had a good one, or his tackles were all good effective ones, or it was due Davies being poor that he was worn out at the end is frankly laughable.......... BOD was pretty damn close to Davies inept performance.

Watch the match before making silly comments, and don't rely on espn for back up as quite often they are incorrect (look at Parling's stats its a joke)