Euro Division Homepage LXI

by sodhat Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:57 pm

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606V2 EURODivision

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by GSC Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:35 pm

I remember when Wilshere held his own against the likes of Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets as well.

Point is, if Wilshere played for United and Scholes for Arsenal, Wilshere would be the greatest thing ever, and Scholes merely a good player to you.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:35 pm

VivaPaulScholes wrote:
GSC wrote:
Zinedine_Ze_Zebra wrote:
VivaPaulScholes wrote:carrick and scholes were not English everyone would be all over them
I actually agree with that.

If Carrick and Scholes played for a different team to Man United, neither of you two would be all over them

That's not true, if a player is good I'll rate him. Gerrard and Lampard have proved it they are damn good footballers. How old is Wilshere he is getting surpassed by the new young kids coming through. I remember when Kroos ate him alive last season haha Wilshere what has he done another Kieran dyer.

You saw England against Brazil at Wembley? Arsenal against Barca at the Emirates? Wilshere ran both those games. Kieran Dyer's best achievement was punching Lee Bowyer

by **Afro** Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:35 pm

Whether Wilshere is good or crap isn't the question you are avoiding.

You use the Balloon Door as the level that Wilshere must achieve to be better than Scholes (despite Scholes not getting any votes) and then in the next post say that the Balloon Door isn't about how good a player you are, but a popularity vote by cosying up.

Make your mind up. Is the Balloon Door about ability or popularity?

by FIFA Diva Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:36 pm

Olly wrote:Zidane done it at World Cups/European Championships on the biggest stages of them all.

Scholes got shunted out to the wing.

Think that argument is done

Sorry son you wasn't alive during that time, you don't understand the politics and dirty games played by the media and the government. They all pressured for Lampard and Gerrard to be played together. It had nothing to do with ability, I'm so happy that he retired because all he got was stick from ungrateful fans. You lot are the same guys that booed Beckham after Argentina 98 and the same guys that cheered him Greece 01. Make me feel sick. I bet azzy was the instigator during 1998.

by GSC Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:37 pm

To add to that question, why does Wilshere need to win it at 21 years of age when Scholes has never received a vote at 38

by **Afro** Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:37 pm

GSC wrote:I remember when Wilshere held his own against the likes of Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets as well.

Point is, if Wilshere played for United and Scholes for Arsenal, Wilshere would be the greatest thing ever, and Scholes merely a good player to you.

I think what you are saying is that he isn't 100% objective.

I think I should declare that I do actually think Scholes is the best English midfielder I have seen in my own lifetime, bar Gazza in his prime.

by sodhat Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:39 pm

VivaPaulScholes wrote:
Olly wrote:Zidane done it at World Cups/European Championships on the biggest stages of them all.

Scholes got shunted out to the wing.

Think that argument is done

Sorry son you wasn't alive during that time, you don't understand the politics and dirty games played by the media and the government. They all pressured for Lampard and Gerrard to be played together. It had nothing to do with ability, I'm so happy that he retired because all he got was stick from ungrateful fans. You lot are the same guys that booed Beckham after Argentina 98 and the same guys that cheered him Greece 01. Make me feel sick. I bet azzy was the instigator during 1998.

Yeah!

And the media and the government are to blame for Carlton Cole not getting 100 England caps. Conspiracy.

by GSC Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:39 pm

Scholes was a fantastic player, and obviously Wilshere is nowhere near his peak at the moment.

But this defensiveness and us against the world mentality is absurd.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:40 pm

sodhat wrote:
VivaPaulScholes wrote:
Olly wrote:Zidane done it at World Cups/European Championships on the biggest stages of them all.

Scholes got shunted out to the wing.

Think that argument is done

Sorry son you wasn't alive during that time, you don't understand the politics and dirty games played by the media and the government. They all pressured for Lampard and Gerrard to be played together. It had nothing to do with ability, I'm so happy that he retired because all he got was stick from ungrateful fans. You lot are the same guys that booed Beckham after Argentina 98 and the same guys that cheered him Greece 01. Make me feel sick. I bet azzy was the instigator during 1998.

Yeah!

And the media and the government are to blame for Carlton Cole not getting 100 England caps. Conspiracy.

THE SAME ONES WHO DENIED GRANT HIS CHANCE TO FIRE US TO EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIPS GLORY!!!!

by FIFA Diva Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:40 pm

GSC wrote:To add to that question, why does Wilshere need to win it at 21 years of age when Scholes has never received a vote at 38

BECAUSE Afro said wilshere is better than scholes. So if a scruffy little teenager is better then the greatest Englishman ever he should walk the balon dor no problem.

Wilshere is good an will be a decent performer but dont talk to me about one or two games let me know when he runs the midfield of the best team in England in a 4-4-2

by sodhat Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:42 pm

VivaPaulScholes wrote:
GSC wrote:To add to that question, why does Wilshere need to win it at 21 years of age when Scholes has never received a vote at 38

BECAUSE Afro said wilshere is better than scholes. So if a scruffy little teenager is better then the greatest Englishman ever he should walk the balon dor no problem.

Wilshere is good an will be a decent performer but dont talk to me about one or two games let me know when he runs the midfield of the best team in England in a 4-4-2

Flawed concept.

Scholes got no votes, ever. So he can't be the greatest Englishman.

And if you say instead that it's a popularity contest, then Wilshere winning it proves nothing.

by Zinedine_Ze_Zebra Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:42 pm

GSC wrote:If Carrick and Scholes played for a different team to Man United, neither of you two would be all over them

Not true at all. There loads of player I rate who dont play for Man United.
I agreed with Viva comment as I feel its true. We rave about Xavi, Pirlo, Iniesta but when we have a player who can preform a similar role/job on the pitch they aren't given the same credit/hype.

Now there is differences, like Xavi doing it for club & county whereas Carrick has only done it for club. This is what sets them apart but at the end of the day the season just gone Carrick has been a very high consistent performer. As Arteta has for Arsenal but as hes not in the Spanish team his abilities & preformances are overlooked.
Its not Carricks fault England are poop & have never had a manager capable of getting them to work just like its not Artetas fault he has Xavi & Iniesta as competition for places.

by FIFA Diva Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:43 pm

Sodhat and Olly you guys were not born during that time so make jokes of me being a conspiracy nut job. Truth is there was a lot of pressure to play Gerrard and Lampard not because they are better but because its what was wanted byy the fat cats

by Fernando Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:44 pm

Per Mertesacker > Danny Welbeck

#NaturalBornForward Very Happy

by GSC Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:45 pm

VivaPaulScholes wrote:
GSC wrote:To add to that question, why does Wilshere need to win it at 21 years of age when Scholes has never received a vote at 38

BECAUSE Afro said wilshere is better than scholes. So if a scruffy little teenager is better then the greatest Englishman ever he should walk the balon dor no problem.

Wilshere is good an will be a decent performer but dont talk to me about one or two games let me know when he runs the midfield of the best team in England in a 4-4-2

No, if hes better than Scholes all he has to do is get 1 vote. That would surpass his entire career.

by GSC Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:46 pm

Lawyers and Injuries up btw

by sodhat Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:48 pm

VivaPaulScholes wrote:Sodhat and Olly you guys were not born during that time so make jokes of me being a conspiracy nut job. Truth is there was a lot of pressure to play Gerrard and Lampard not because they are better but because its what was wanted byy the fat cats

I'm 24 dude. I was alive. I was following football.... we're the same age.

I was aware of media pressure. But political? Why would politicians get involved in who plays centre mid for England?

by GSC Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:49 pm

Stevie G was clearly the posterchild for New Labours policies Soddy.

I don't agree with Blair pushing for his inclusion, especially since hes Scottish, but thats the way it was back then.

by sodhat Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:50 pm

There was probably a backbench revolt when they brought Owen Hargreaves into the middle.

by **Afro** Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:52 pm

So Viva, is the Balloon Door a judgement of ability or popularity?

by GSC Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:52 pm

I hear the issue of Welbeck vs Sturridge is whats splitting the coalition.

by GSC Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:53 pm

Miliband's continued support of Cleverley is whats dragging him and Labour down.

by FIFA Diva Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:53 pm

Then where does Wilshere go after getting one vote? Will he dominate the leagur with great performances? Will he be able to constantly get the better of top European midfielders. Wilshere will finish his career as a good English player below the likew of Gerrard and Lampard but ahove the likes of parker and Cleverly.

by Fernando Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:54 pm

BigFellasAfro wrote:So Viva, is the Balloon Door a judgement of ability or popularity?

Wilshere at 18 > Scholes at 18

He never won the Young Player of the year award unlike Wilshere Whistle

by GSC Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:54 pm

At his peak Scholes received no votes.

For Wilshere to receive 1 vote would indicate at that point he has surpassed Scholes' peak no?

by **Afro** Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:54 pm

BigFellasAfro wrote:So Viva, is the Balloon Door a judgement of ability or popularity?

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:55 pm

Fernando wrote:
BigFellasAfro wrote:So Viva, is the Balloon Door a judgement of ability or popularity?

Wilshere at 18 > Scholes at 18

He never won the Young Player of the year award unlike Wilshere

KAPOW

by FIFA Diva Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:55 pm

BigFellasAfro wrote:So Viva, is the Balloon Door a judgement of ability or popularity?

A bit of both really.

by Zinedine_Ze_Zebra Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:59 pm

Isnt this just a rehash, no new arguments coming out from either side.

Scholes > Wilshere
Wilshere is yet to prove anything.
Scholes has loads of winners medals.
#Done #PutToBed

by Fernando Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:01 pm

Come back when he's won the Young player of the year award at 18

#InstantlyBetterThenScholesAt18 Whistle

by **Afro** Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:03 pm

It is a different argument tbh ZZZ.

I agree with you, Scholes at his peak > Wilshere up until now
Wilshere is potential but has to prove it
Scholes has the winners medals

But the question being asked is why should someone have to win the Balloon Door to be considered better than someone who never got a vote. If we ask the same question with the different players, it might make more sense.

Does Marco Verratti have to win the Balloon Door to able to be considered better than Leon Osman?

by FIFA Diva Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:05 pm

Looks like we've smashed the buttons of the pro wilshere fans.

Next debate Android vs Iphone. All im saying is HTC 1

by sodhat Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:07 pm

Lets reframe the argument.

Matt Le Tissier is the best English player ever.

Boom.

by Fernando Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:07 pm

Id say your pathetic excuse of an argument got ruined and torn apart by common sense

by GSC Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:07 pm

Brian Clough is the greatest British manager of all time.

by **Afro** Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:08 pm

How is you using mud slinging and illogical arguments and avoiding clarifying the bits of your argument that make no sense, smashing them.

At no point have I entered into a Scholes v Wilshere argument. I want you to explain your logic, that is all, coz so far all you've done is throw mud around and accuse Sod of not being alive 10 years ago

by FIFA Diva Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:15 pm

I remember when the media were raving about Wilshere and someome ssid he'll join Barca in a few years. Guardiola replied we have better players in our B side haha. I bet you any money that Tello will become a fat greater player then Wilshere if his not already.

Scholes is better then Jack because he played for a team who see second place as failure unlike certain team who celebrate 4th spot. Scholes always had the pressure of playing at the highest level ans fighting for the biggest honours. If Scholes didn't perform united would look elsewhere they spend a lot of money unlike arsenal. Wilshere does not have the pressure of losing his spot he has it cushy.

by GSC Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:16 pm

Tello and Wilshere are entirely different players Erm

by FIFA Diva Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:17 pm

I meant Thiago but yeah Tello will also blow him away.

by Zinedine_Ze_Zebra Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:19 pm

Afro wrote:It is a different argument tbh ZZZ.

I know that Afro. I was trying to end it.

Regardless of Ballon Door or not, overall/all-round Wilshere isnt as good as Scholes.
Wilshere being young has the time where he could become better.

by FIFA Diva Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:20 pm

GSC wrote:Tello and Wilshere are entirely different players

Ronaldo and Ramsey are entirely different players too, don't mean one is not better than the other.

by FIFA Diva Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:22 pm

Zinedine_Ze_Zebra wrote:
Afro wrote:It is a different argument tbh ZZZ.
I know that Afro. I was trying to end it.

Regardless of Ballon Door or not, overall/all-round Wilshere isnt as good as Scholes.
Wilshere being young has the time where he could become better.

I think Zidanes account has been hacked. What has Wilshere done to show he can become better than Scholes except the fact be in young

by GSC Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:24 pm

With respect Viva, Ronaldo and Ramsey are clearly miles apart in terms of ability.

Wilshere and Tello are closer, making it tougher since they play different positions. However I suspect most aside from the most ardent Barca (or United fans in this case) would take Wilshere.

by sodhat Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:24 pm

1. He can tackle

by FIFA Diva Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:41 pm

GSC then how do we fans of Football identify the best footballers? There's not going to be much difference in ability between Falcao and Ozil.

by GSC Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:44 pm

Why are lists of top players generally populated by attackers than defenders?

by sodhat Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:45 pm

It's easier to statistically push attacking players claims than it is a defender.

by Zinedine_Ze_Zebra Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:50 pm

Viva wrote: I think Zidanes account has been hacked. What has Wilshere done to show he can become better than Scholes except the fact be in young

He hasnt shown anything but the guy does have some talent & hes young so he has a chance. At Arsenal I doubt he will even become as good as Scholes, they will halt his progress eventually.

by GSC Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:50 pm

Indeed.

Is Drogba better at his job than Pique or Ramos? In 2012 voters assumed so by a wide margin

by Zinedine_Ze_Zebra Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:52 pm

Wilshere and Tello are closer, making it tougher since they play different positions. However I suspect most aside from the most ardent Barca (or United fans in this case) would take Wilshere.

Id take Wilshere over Tello.

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