Euro Division Homepage LXI

The PL is not the only one at fault, but it also shoulders a fair share of the blame.

Germany showed a rebuild can be done in a decade, England have to follow.

Azzy Mahmood wrote:Why selling Alba Marky? Not because he got done by Maggio?

Just because I fancy mixing it up a bit.

who do you lot think are Englands top 3 best technical players? For example for Spain it would be Iniesta, Mata and Xavi.

Viva wrote:Dont play the PL for poor English players, why should a manager be forced to play a young English player over a more talented young foreign player. The problem lies in grassroots where a player is educated on the game.

I dont see the problem being why a manager should/shouldnt play them. As you say the problem is grassroots.
If a youth player was developed to a high standard then Man City, Chelsea, Stoke, Swansea & Wigan may of had one who was capable of playing. So from grassroots to top level clubs academy & youth setup, they should be nurturing a player to be a high level/standard.

So I agree with part of your point Viva but grassroots isnt all to blame. Clubs spent millions on training centres (look at Man Citys new one), youth academy etc. They should be able to produce at least one English Under 21 who can play at a competitive level.

Aston Villa can manage it, why can Chelsea?

I think it is a bit niaive to think that grassroots promotes "hoofball" to be honest.

nadeem2099 wrote:who do you lot think are Englands top 3 best technical players? For example for Spain it would be Iniesta, Mata and Xavi.

Hey Nadz!

I'd say Wilshere, Carrick and Rooney. Which sums up why we're so bad.

GSC we are miles behind that Germany team of 2000 even in the rebuild of their national team they made a wc final and a wc semi and a european final. At our best we reach the quarters we have a long long way to go if we want to reach the level of germany.

Ages between 5-11 that's where I feel we are lacking, kids are not taught to play with the ball, they play on big pitches with size 5 balls and it's all about being the biggest and strongest. An when these lads start to play for a pro team they do not have the mentality or understanding to play football the "right way" An while our lads aged 11 an over start playing for pro teams the foreign lads have about 5 years on them already when it comes to confidence and playing a good game.

You can't expect English players to make up 5 years on th foreign players no chance. We need to be competing with them from an early age.

Afro I wouldn't say promoting hoof ball but it's probably all the coaches know. Forget teaching technique or how to keep the ball but getting them into games straight away on big pitches.

They made the 2002 WC final because they didnt play anyone. Saudi Arabia, Cameroon, Ireland, Paraguay, USA, Turkey was their route to the final, where they were soundly beaten by the only particularly good team they played.

In recent times though, Germany have produced talent like Ozil, Khedira, Gotze, Muller, Schurrle, Hummels, Draxler etc. England have produced just 2 players in the last decade that could be considered to be anywhere near the level of those, and thats Wilshere and Rooney.

Aston Villa don't have 50m to spend on a Fernando Torres, the English Villa boys don't have a Mata or a Hazard in front off them no offence but the competition to make it at Villa is no where near Chelsea.

I feel the problem is way before joining big teams, it's when you're having a kick about or playing for school or district sides. Our kids lack technique.

viva wrote:Ages between 5-11 that's where I feel we are lacking, kids are not taught to play with the ball, they play on big pitches with size 5 balls and it's all about being the biggest and strongest.

Sorry Viva, you couldn't be more wrong.
Up to Under 12's level they play on 9v9 pitches. Over 12's play on full size pitch yet it will be the smallest full size pitch within FA Guideline.
They use a Size 4 ball up to 16, then 16+ use Size 5.

See that's where I disagree. Kids aged 12 DO have technique - it's at club academies where it's trained out of them. Kids aged 12-16 now have to do what the clubs want - improve their stamina, shooting, heading etc - and any flair they might have isn't allowed, as it's an individual thing and not best for the team. Because the clubs want to win games, even at that level.

What should happen is that there are no leagues under 17, and all games are decided on who scored the best goals. Like X Factor but for football. And the referees can be the judge of skill and technique rather than who can score headers off of corners.

It's the clubs that are to blame here, not the FA, not the Premier League, not the kids. It's Chelsea, United, Albion, Peterbrough, Cheltenham, Torquay. All of them. They sacrifice any individuality the kids have.

Consider when Englands U21s played Germanys U21s in the final in 2009.

England: Loach, Cranie, Richards, Onuoha, Gibbs, Cattermole, Muamba, Noble, Milner, Walcott, Johnson.

Germany: Neuer, Beck, Howedes, Boateng, Boenisch, Hummels, Johnson, Castro, Khedira, Ozil Wagner.

Our players had the talent to get to the final (even if they were thrashed) but where have they gone since?

I think only 3 of our players are at top half PL sides. 3 of Germanys team lined up for the CL final.

viva wrote:Aston Villa don't have 50m to spend on a Fernando Torres

So that make it on not to develop youth?
Think you missing my point Viva.
Lets use Man United & Chelsea as example of what im trying to say.
How many English players have each of those clubs bought through their youth system into the first team in the last 10 years?

That's some team they had GSC. Wow. Richards was ruined by Mancini/injuries, Gibbs can't defend, only Walcott has any spark of any kind.

I bet when we look back on the current crop of U21s in four years' time none of them are playing at the top.

To be fair, Hart was suspended

Germany also had Marin and Schmelzer on the bench

They beat Saudi Arabia 8-0 and we struggled to score more than 5 against part timers. We only beat them on GD in the qualifiers to WC. That's not the point, German football took 10 years to get where they are and we are miles behind them it will take us at least twice that time.

Zidane I said school level, kick about it does not always mean you have to be playing for a team. By the time we are taught technique we are a lot behind thr foreign players

The hallmark of all time great teams, beating Saudi Arabia handily.

Forget the draw with Ireland, and barely sneaking past Paraguay, USA and Turkey.

the problem imo is not enough english players play outside of the uk. All of the english starting 11 play in the bpl whereas Germany have players in spain and england where they can perfect their skills.

GSC wrote:The hallmark of all time great teams, beating Saudi Arabia handily.

Forget the draw with Ireland, and barely sneaking past Paraguay, USA and Turkey.

I didn't say that German side is an all time great, I said between 2000-2008 they still made finals and semis. An it took them 10 years to get to where they are now with the likes of ozil neuer khedira etc. An if you think it will take England the same time to produce players of the same level you must be smoking some grade a colombian stuff. We are at a worse stage in 2013 then germanu were in 2000.

English players have never left this country en masse like all the other nations seem to. You can count on one hand the number of top English players to play abroad since 1990.

Zinedine_Ze_Zebra wrote:

viva wrote:Aston Villa don't have 50m to spend on a Fernando Torres

So that make it on not to develop youth?
Think you missing my point Viva.
Lets use Man United & Chelsea as example of what im trying to say.
How many English players have each of those clubs bought through their youth system into the first team in the last 10 years?

What I'm saying is our players are already behind in football education when they join pro clubs at the age of 12. They have a lot of catching up to do and while they qre learning the technical side then foreign players will be improving on what they know leaving our youngsters playing catch up. Why do foreign youngster come through english set ups but the English lads cant. Same centres same facilities.

Apparently Forest are doing a City and getting a sponsor from Kuwait to skirt around FFP.

viva wrote:Zidane I said school level, kick about it does not always mean you have to be playing for a team. By the time we are taught technique we are a lot behind thr foreign players

Just a kick about isnt valid then. If your having a kick about at school & not playing for a team chances are you will not be having a football career.
Grassroots football doesnt make out think of a kick around in the school playground so sorry for misinterpreting you.

I for one dont have a son, cousin or anyone I take to football & watch (my younger cousin plays but ive only ever watch 2 of his matches) so Im not in a position to say that they are not taught technique at a young age. I assume your in the same boat as me Viva so where do you get this impression kids are not taught technique?

If any parents here who take there kids football can share their experiences that would help in this discussion.

Wheres Hero, his kids the next Messi apparently.

GSC wrote:Wheres Hero, his kids the next Messi apparently.

Yeah he is, I heard Fan scouted him.

U10s in England is a bit mainstream for fan

 

Seven players who have featured in the Premier League have 100 US caps. Who are they?

Howard, McBride, Dempsey, Bocanegra?

I guess Donovan, Friedel and Eddie Johnson also?

Cobi Jones fo'sho.

Kasey Keller/Claudio Reyna?

I know the answer now. We have 5/7.

Former toffee Joe Max Moore has to be one.

6/7

Dempseys on 99 btw

What about the apparent saviour of American football in DeMarcus Beasley   id be surprised if got more then 30 plus he the only american players i can think of now apart from Brad Guzan the villa keeper

Jeff Agoos !!!!!!!!!!

And the other one will be Demarcus BEasley as he got his 100th cap against Belgium when Mirallas scored didn't he

Good accidental shout Nando

Twas Beasley after his Citeh short spell

Lets do another quiz?

Name the 5 players that have scored 50 goals in England and Germany

Keegan, Robben?

Ballack

Good question Viva

Klinsmann?

Berbatov?

Surely not Roque Santa Cruz?

Trying to pick my brains for players who have played a decent number of games in both leagues

Fernando wrote:Berbatov?

Yes, has to be one