Rafa need no sympathy, come on

First topic message reminder :

Rafa just lost a match, its not a serious crime nor a serious problem, people are pouring comments oh I hope all is well etc,..

Rafa would be the first to stay away from such sympathies, he is a champ and need no sympathies, in sports winning and losing are port of it, did any body forget whats written on the Wimbledon gate before the players enter the court? if so I will summarize it

"Accept Win and loss in the same manner and not as personal disaster", for those who wants the exact words, check youtube there is a lovely video of Rafa and Roger reading those words.

Darcis won the match and the day and his fans and the fans of underdogs earned the right of celebration just like how Rafa earned the right of celebration after the FO triumph.

Indeed a break from Tennis is a much needed thingy in his life, and he could spend some precious time with his girl friend , family and friends doing many other things he love.

I am not worried about what happened today from Rafa's perspective nor gonna offer any condolences or sympathies for this silly loss, coz I know whats Rafas capability and he has in him to comeback harder, even if he fails like haddie use to say he is still 12 time GS champion and thats one huge of a tag to carry on for the entire life.

Isn't it "Rafa needs...."?

This is just information .. Ive just seen a video of Rafa arriving in Barcelona... no not in Palma Mallorca... Barcelona is where his doctor is.

Cheers for that Haddie. Another in a growing mass of clues that he has an injury.

Well Craig it will be said he is taking his doctor something he was asked to buy in London....

Haddie-nuff wrote:Well Craig it will be said he is taking his doctor something he was asked to buy in London....

Or something far more sinister. Heck I am beginning to sound like Ten......

If you have ever seen the close up of the scars on that left knee I think you will know its probably another series of injections.

Haddie-nuff wrote:If you have ever seen the close up of the scars on that left knee I think you will know its probably another series of injections.

What of?

bogbrush wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:If you have ever seen the close up of the scars on that left knee I think you will know its probably another series of injections.

What of?

I could have named a few posters on here that would have stooped low enough to make that comment BB
even if it were intended as a sick joke.. I did not have you amongst them... he who is always holier than thou

Haddie-nuff wrote:This is just information .. Ive just seen a video of Rafa arriving in Barcelona... no not in Palma Mallorca... Barcelona is where his doctor is.

This meeting was obviously for psychiatric analysis, wakes up thinking about Darcis, bad enough with just Rosol

Then I suggest you go to visit him JM you could do with a little psychiatric help yourself ..get the pain in the neck sorted whilst your at it:

This from Uncle Toni "In the sport you can win and lose. Many times you lose. The knee injury is not a worry. His knees were the same here as Roland Garros and he won the tournament there"

Of course, you never know with Toni, but I did say his knees were OK going into Wimby.

The Spaniards grow a lot of mushrooms and the use the same philosophy Julius

Thanks Julius,

Surely that ends that. Or then again probably not...

Suprising as it is to hear that from Uncle Tony, nonetheless well said! Now I'd like to hear from CC and Haddie what to think of it!

Nadal losing at 2nd round of a slam was suppose to be a one off, he betters off with a 1st round loss, don't remember Federer, Djokovic or Murray having that record at any of the slams. Very possible Nadal will skip Wimbledon from now on?

My thoughts - we'll see how he is in coming weeks/months of the season. Hopefully, for tennis that Toni is right. I mean a lot can be read into words as he says the knee injury is not a worry. What constitutes a worry? That it may end is career? On that front it may not be a worry but as in preventing him moving as we have seen he can on grass then that is another matter.

Haddie-nuff wrote: The Spaniards grow a lot of mushrooms and the use the same philosophy Julius

Surely Toni is not a liar, liar, pants on fire?

"The knee injury is not a worry. His knees were the same here as Roland Garros and he won the tournament there"


Hardly an ambiguous statement.

Where is that quote from Julius? What else did he say?

It's on the BBC live text @15:00. Don't know what their source is.

Ive already said what I think .. and Ill repeat the Spaniards tell you what they think you need or want to hear.
I have not lived 12 years in Spain and not come to know how they think.. white lies are a part of their culture and they see no harm in it. We expats get so frustrated by it asking a direct question does not get a direct answer.  And in any event in the past there have been many on this forum prepared to call Toni a liar so why change your opinion now. He is protecting his nephew and right that he should
Toni will not broadcast to the world Rafa´s problems he would be a fool to do so. Rafa got of the plane in Barcelona and went straight to his specialist.. he did not go straight home to Mallorca.
It matters little what I say anyway because there are those who believe that they know better. So we will have to wait and see.
This much I will say and that Rafa being Rafa if he can drag himself back from this again then he will but at his presser he did say he did not want a repeat of what happened before so there must be something troubling him ...make up your own mind.

emancipator wrote:

"The knee injury is not a worry. His knees were the same here as Roland Garros and he won the tournament there"


Hardly an ambiguous statement.

Constitute 'a worry'? Yes and we know from pressers during his time out that clay courts don't do the damage to the knee it is the other surfaces ie grass where it hit last year.

Haddie-nuff wrote:Ive already said what I think .. and Ill repeat the Spaniards tell you what they think you need or want to hear.
I have not lived 12 years in Spain and not come to know how they think.. white lies are a part of their culture and they see no harm in it. We expats get so frustrated by it asking a direct question does not get a direct answer.  And in any event in the past there have been many on this forum prepared to call Toni a liar so why change your opinion now. He is protecting his nephew and right that he should
Toni will not broadcast to the world Rafa´s problems he would be a fool to do so. Rafa got of the plane in Barcelona and went straight to his specialist.. he did not go straight home to Mallorca.
It matters little what I say anyway because there are those who believe that they know better. So we will have to wait and see.
This much I will say and that Rafa being Rafa if he can drag himself back from this again then he will but at his presser he did say he did not want a repeat of what happened before so there must be something troubling him ...make up your own mind.

Yep, like uncle Toni

And I don't remember him being so diplomatic in the last couple of years when talking about too many HC's, too many fast surfaces, etc.

It is entirely possible, as I said from the outset, that Nadal got caught cold and his movement problems were more as a result of difficulty in adjusting to the new surface.

But of course people always have to assume an injury when it comes to Nadal.

It's unfair and disrespectful to his opponents.

Pass

I base my opinion on this on what I've seen & heard, not a generalization of Spanish culture. But there are those who believe they know better

It's entirely possible that his knees are the same from RG to Wimby, but the grass caused problems they couldn't be sure of in advance. But that would mean Toni isn't lying, whereas you seem to be telling us that he is lying, because that's what the Spanish do.

Well, I hope Toni's telling the truth and the knees aren't an issue and he'll be back on court soon.

Also what question was Toni asked? Did a reporter ask him:'Is Nadal's career over?' If so then the injury wouldn't be a worry on that front is what I am getting at. It may be that it is the sort that will prevent him being a serious challenger on grass again but not worrying enough to be a career ender.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

emancipator wrote:

"The knee injury is not a worry. His knees were the same here as Roland Garros and he won the tournament there"


Hardly an ambiguous statement.

Constitute 'a worry'? Yes and we know from pressers during his time out that clay courts don't do the damage to the knee it is the other surfaces ie grass where it hit last year.

NNot sure what you're trying to say Craig.

He clearly says the knees are the same as they were at RG - which he won - and that they don't constitute a worry. What more do you want him to say? That the knees are perfect - well of course that wouldn't be true, as it wouldn't be true for any athlete who plays a high impact sport.

The point is that nothing has changed between RG and now wrt the knees.

Can I have that dead horse now please !!! You obviously know better Julius so Ill leave it with you
Oh by the way why did he not play Halle ??? please tell us all

I can't find the link I was looking for but it is from an interview at Wimbledon where Toni says that they will be back next year to Wimbledon with better preparation.  In that article he says the knees are the same as at RG, but then goes on to say that after 9 finals and 7 tournament wins, Rafa's health has gone down a little.

I agree that the information last year came out in dribs and drabs and so the Team might make another statement after various scans etc.  The fact that Nadal is visiting his doctor in Barcelona might be something and nothing - he has a chronic knee problem (that is well documented) and after a punishing Spring season it is fairly obvious that that has flared up.  I would imagine that scans and checks are a routine thing for him after his problems.  The only thing I say to Nadal fans is that the chronic problem will never disappear obviously, it has to be managed, but one bad match does not necessarily mean the problem has suddenly become acute.  Toni aslo says (in the interview that I can't find) that he doesn't know whether they will go to the American hardcourts or go to play on clay - this statement suggests to me that the knee may well be stable and so they will have to continue to nurse and manage it sensibly, but it is premature to leap to conclusions that this signals the end to a great career, especially after such a glorious return to the tour.

Haddie-nuff wrote:Ive already said what I think .. and Ill repeat the Spaniards tell you what they think you need or want to hear.
I have not lived 12 years in Spain and not come to know how they think.. white lies are a part of their culture and they see no harm in it. We expats get so frustrated by it asking a direct question does not get a direct answer.  And in any event in the past there have been many on this forum prepared to call Toni a liar so why change your opinion now. He is protecting his nephew and right that he should
Toni will not broadcast to the world Rafa´s problems he would be a fool to do so. Rafa got of the plane in Barcelona and went straight to his specialist.. he did not go straight home to Mallorca.
It matters little what I say anyway because there are those who believe that they know better. So we will have to wait and see.
This much I will say and that Rafa being Rafa if he can drag himself back from this again then he will but at his presser he did say he did not want a repeat of what happened before so there must be something troubling him ...make up your own mind.

That's little more than a sensation, do you really think this is a convincing argument?

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:Ive already said what I think .. and Ill repeat the Spaniards tell you what they think you need or want to hear.
I have not lived 12 years in Spain and not come to know how they think.. white lies are a part of their culture and they see no harm in it. We expats get so frustrated by it asking a direct question does not get a direct answer.  And in any event in the past there have been many on this forum prepared to call Toni a liar so why change your opinion now. He is protecting his nephew and right that he should
Toni will not broadcast to the world Rafa´s problems he would be a fool to do so. Rafa got of the plane in Barcelona and went straight to his specialist.. he did not go straight home to Mallorca.
It matters little what I say anyway because there are those who believe that they know better. So we will have to wait and see.
This much I will say and that Rafa being Rafa if he can drag himself back from this again then he will but at his presser he did say he did not want a repeat of what happened before so there must be something troubling him ...make up your own mind.

That's little more than a sensation, do you really think this is a convincing argument?

This is not an argument ... you make the argument.
This is my opinion based on experience
Take what or nothing from it as you please
Im entitled to an opinion like it or lump it
Im not trying to convince anyone... its only you that always has to be right JK

Is Toni still at Wimbledon giving interviews? Is that strange... I don't know.

JuliusHMarx wrote:This from Uncle Toni "In the sport you can win and lose. Many times you lose. The knee injury is not a worry. His knees were the same here as Roland Garros and he won the tournament there"

Of course, you never know with Toni, but I did say his knees were OK going into Wimby.

Thx for posting the quotes JHM, fans clearly make a mountain out of molehill.

Haddie-nuff wrote:

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:Ive already said what I think .. and Ill repeat the Spaniards tell you what they think you need or want to hear.
I have not lived 12 years in Spain and not come to know how they think.. white lies are a part of their culture and they see no harm in it. We expats get so frustrated by it asking a direct question does not get a direct answer.  And in any event in the past there have been many on this forum prepared to call Toni a liar so why change your opinion now. He is protecting his nephew and right that he should
Toni will not broadcast to the world Rafa´s problems he would be a fool to do so. Rafa got of the plane in Barcelona and went straight to his specialist.. he did not go straight home to Mallorca.
It matters little what I say anyway because there are those who believe that they know better. So we will have to wait and see.
This much I will say and that Rafa being Rafa if he can drag himself back from this again then he will but at his presser he did say he did not want a repeat of what happened before so there must be something troubling him ...make up your own mind.

That's little more than a sensation, do you really think this is a convincing argument?

This is not an argument ... you make the argument.
This is my opinion based on experience
Take what or nothing from it as you please
Im entitled to an opinion like it or lump it
Im not trying to convince anyone... its only you that always has to be right JK

OK, forgetting Tony's words for a minute, you'll agree with me that there's hardly any evidence to back your ideas.....

What is suprising is that the Nadal camp always seem to be liars unless they are saying something you agree with.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Also what question was Toni asked? Did a reporter ask him:'Is Nadal's career over?' If so then the injury wouldn't be a worry on that front is what I am getting at. It may be that it is the sort that will prevent him being a serious challenger on grass again but not worrying enough to be a career ender.

Come on now give up CC, its been said he was fine, that closes the argument that Nadal was fine and Darcis won coz he either caught Nadal cold or he was the better player on the given day or likely both.

Haddie-nuff wrote:Can I have that dead horse now please !!! You obviously know better Julius so Ill leave it with you
Oh by the way why did he not play Halle ??? please  tell us all

I suspect he missed Halle because he needed a rest. It's not just the knees that a pounding winning the FO - it's the whole body and spirit as well. It was never said that he missed it because his knees were injured.
I realise I'm speculating, as are you, but my interpretation seems to fit both the events and the statements from Rafa's camp. It's not a criticism to say that he wasn't having problems with his knees, he needed some R&R, and that he didn't know beforehand if the grass would cause a problem. Then during the latter part of the match, they became a bit of a problem. I don't see how that explanation can be seen as some sort of criticism of Rafa.

Haddie-nuff wrote:Can I have that dead horse now please !!! You obviously know better Julius so Ill leave it with you
Oh by the way why did he not play Halle ??? please  tell us all

As a precaution to avoid more wear and tear, its very simple, please don't blame every of his loss to injury and insult an inspirational underdog win. let poor Darcis have his moment.

kingraf wrote:What is suprising is that the Nadal camp always seem to be liars unless they are saying something you agree with.

Well, if you take Haddie's view, white lies are second nature to them and they do it all the time. Not a view I take myself, although I'm sure they wouldn't give out information that might help other players in any way - they're too smart for that.

I see what you mean kingraf (4.16pm)

I'm sure you think that Uncle Toni IS lying in making his comment that the knee was no more of a problem at RG (which of course he won) than it was at Wimbledon (which of course he exited in Round One).

But if, on the other hand, Toni were to say tomorrow (or next month) that Rafa lost to Darcis because he was injured then he is NOT lying because that's something you would agree with.

As Haddie says ..... make up your own mind.

JHM - Im not going either way with this. It just seems to me that if Nadal says hes fine its the Gospel Truth. If he speaks about the knees:

www.606v2.com/t44974-nadal-s-knees

www.606v2.com/t45666-nadal-and-his-excuses

But If Nadal says the knees are fine... its okay because he said so.

Found it!  It is on the Wimbledon webpage:

"What happened, we lose the match. That’s what happened, nothing else. Rafael has played a bad game and Steve Darcis played so much better... he win this match and we lose," he said.

"The people said that (it was) the knees, but the knees are the same as in Roland Garros, in Indian Wells, or in Madrid or Rome. And with these knees we won the tournaments, we won Roland Garros."

This analysis may have only told part of the story.

Rafael skipped the Halle Wimbledon tune-up event in the week following the French Open, a move at the time put down to him simply needing to rest after another successful claycourt campaign. Now, on reflection, it was slightly more ominous.

Toni indicated that problems had arisen following Rafael’s incredible eighth triumph in Paris.

“He has made nine finals, (won) seven titles, he won Roland Garros. And then his health go a little down,” he revealed.

“We come here with not a very good preparation, it was very difficult to play here... without playing a tournament before.

“And here it’s true, it’s so much (more) difficult now for Rafael to play here because on grass you should play more down (lower to the ground), the movements are difficult at this moment. But what was very bad was our forehand, our serve, our volley, all these things.

“I’m sure next year we come with very good preparation and we can play so much better than this year.”

That great news for fans of Rafael, one of the most popular players in the history of the game as well as a huge tournament drawcard anywhere he plays.

I think you can read into this interview what you want - Toni is being cagey and the injury might be more serious than they are letting on at the moment, or conversely that Rafa's chronic problem needs a bit of TLC after a hard fought, and very successful, clay season but it will be back to business after a bit of recuperation.

It's diplomatic and ambiguous - but thought it might be interesting to throw it in to the debate.

kingraf wrote:What is suprising is that the Nadal camp always seem to be liars unless they are saying something you agree with.

Or if you're a Nadal fan then his camp speaks the truth until it they happen to say something you disagree with

I just said Im not bothered. Well, lets put it like this: I'll say the knee was 150% Monday, if you agree he is injured every other defeat :-P

kingraf wrote:I just said Im not bothered. Well, lets put it like this: I'll say the knee was 150% Monday, if you agree he is injured every other defeat :-P

Deal!

I'll take the agreement. Been looking for years for logical reason as to why he lost to Garcia Lopez in 2010. It was obviously the knee!!!

I'm in, if you discount Rosol

Ah... I like Rosol, so I'll take that.

emancipator : when yesterday I had the temerity to express the purely personal view that I found it surprising that the same knee which had safely carried Rafa through nine successive finals - including of course a hugely impressive 8th RG title just a short while before Wimbledon - should suddenly not be good enough to see off an opponent of Darcis' pedigree at Wimbledon R1, I was quickly told by kingraf that my comments were "pretty funny" and that they amounted to "incredibly flawed logic"

Now that Uncle Toni has said that "the knees are the same" and that "we lose this match .... nothing else" I'm sure kingraf will be just as quick to react to Toni's comments in the same patronising manner as he did to mine.

UNLESS of course Toni himself is lying .........

What I Said is that to think That Just because a knee lasted for so long, it is now not prone to breaking down is flawed.

Maybe "incredibly flawed" was a stretch, and I apologize if I offended you, but I can cite many sports stars who came back from an injury, did well and then relapsed. A point you seemed to scoff.