Rafa need no sympathy, come on

by invisiblecoolers Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:18 pm

First topic message reminder :

Rafa just lost a match, its not a serious crime nor a serious problem, people are pouring comments oh I hope all is well etc,..

Rafa would be the first to stay away from such sympathies, he is a champ and need no sympathies, in sports winning and losing are port of it, did any body forget whats written on the Wimbledon gate before the players enter the court? if so I will summarize it

"Accept Win and loss in the same manner and not as personal disaster", for those who wants the exact words, check youtube there is a lovely video of Rafa and Roger reading those words.

Darcis won the match and the day and his fans and the fans of underdogs earned the right of celebration just like how Rafa earned the right of celebration after the FO triumph.

Indeed a break from Tennis is a much needed thingy in his life, and he could spend some precious time with his girl friend , family and friends doing many other things he love.

I am not worried about what happened today from Rafa's perspective nor gonna offer any condolences or sympathies for this silly loss, coz I know whats Rafas capability and he has in him to comeback harder, even if he fails like haddie use to say he is still 12 time GS champion and thats one huge of a tag to carry on for the entire life.

by CaledonianCraig Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:55 am

That, Haddie nuff, backs up what I feel and saw in that pre-tournament interview yesterday. You could sense his doubt in that interview saying he hoped the knee would hold up without really believing. Now if the knee and mindset wasn't right I now believe the best decision would have been for him to pull out. Seemingly, that is not his way and he may now regret that. Hopefully, he will be back soon.

by Guest Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:56 am

If he is to play the US Open HN he will need Roddick style treatment and all his matches would need to be on Arthur Ashe if he is to hold up given thay Louis Armstrong plays much quicker and if they have the weather of last year the courts will play heavier with uneven bounce.

by Haddie-nuff Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:07 pm

What we are seeing here lk is a typical Rafa.. he will not give in he will fight it every inch of the way. But there is always the Spanish philosophy behind it.. "tell them what they want to hear" and if he tells it often enough he can believe it himself. He has come dangerously close to career threatening injury on more than one occasion. We all said years ago his style of play will be his downfall. But it is the left knee which has been affected by the left foot (which we all know by now he has a genetic problem with). I cannot for my part and you more experienced players would know what the modern hc surfaces are like.. that he will not have more problems facing him.
I dont want to be over pessimistic but I am a realist and I tend to face the fact before it happens. Proper jobs comforter arn´t I ???

by CaledonianCraig Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:12 pm

I have never played tennis before Haddie but by being a keen watcher I'd say it is clear that grass court tennis involves much more bending of the knees, quick turns and change of direction and perhaps even more so than on hard courts. This may be backed up by how well he done at Indian Wells on a hard court. However, has he done more damage now by playing on grass when perhaps he shouldn't? That is the big question.

by Haddie-nuff Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:18 pm

Yes Craig I agree.. he certainly looked unsure of his footing out there yesterday and I think the knee was at the forefront of his mind the whole time. Hard to play when you are being destracted by negative thoughts at the best of times. I think he knew he should not have attempted it but for reasons Ive already outlined I think it was that he knew he would have to face a mountain of criticism if he didnt. As it is he still getting it .. Cool

Cant win any way up Rafa

by **JuliusHMarx** Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:25 pm

CC, I don't know how much we should read into any one interview (e.g. "I'm not the favourite" before the FO final). Rafa often says he hopes the knees hold up, try my best etc.
I believe the knee was 100% fine at RG and through the clay season. There may have been mental doubts that it would hold up on grass, but I don't believe there was ever any question of him pulling out of Wimby or defying doctor's orders to play. He recently said playing Wimby last year was a big mistake - and he's too smart not to learn from that mistake and to then repeat it.
He may have felt a twinge at some point yesterday and then the doubts set in and he couldn't bring himself to fully test it out. I'm sure he'll be back sooner rather than later.

by CaledonianCraig Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:29 pm

JHM you didn't have to be a psychologist to see the unease in his words that is what I am saying. Besides none of us know what he was being told by doctors etc with regards playing Wimbledon. I'd say a clue in itself that all was not right was not playing either Halle or Queen's.

by **JuliusHMarx** Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:33 pm

Perhaps a psychologist would not see any unease Smile

In any case, unease does not necessarily reflect an injury, just a fear of injury.
It's not uncommon though for FO finalist's/winners to skip a warm-up event on grass, in order to recover from the physical and emotional effort of the FO, especially if they already have proven pedigree on grass, which Rafa does.

by CaledonianCraig Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:43 pm

Look at the facts though that are out there.

1. He had been out long-term with knee injury since last Wimbledon and told he needed rest and perhaps even surgery (which wasn't needed in the end).

2. He skipped playing any warm-up tournaments on the surface.

3. Wasn't his usual immaculate self early doors in RG either was he?

4. Gives a nervy pre-tournament interview that doesn't exude confidence in the knee.

5. Is then known to have a pre-match training session with Juan Monaco that takes a different and bizarre pattern where he specifically asks to be tested on specific shots meaning specific movements.

6. He loses is straight sets (beyond even Rosol last year which was a five set scrap) to Steve Darcis. Now if you feel this is purely down to the amazing talent of Darcis and nothing else then I take it Roger's fans are terrified at the prospect of playing such a player?

by Haddie-nuff Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:47 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:Perhaps a psychologist would not see any unease
In any case, unease does not necessarily reflect an injury, just a fear of injury.
It's not uncommon though for FO finalist's/winners to skip a warm-up event on grass, in order to recover from the physical and emotional effort of the FO, especially if they already have proven pedigree on grass, which Rafa does.

I obviously have not made myself clear as I have already explained my reasons for why I thought he played and I stick by them Julius he didnt SKIP a warm up event just to go fishing, he was advised NOT TO PLAY by his doctor. And I believe he was probably advised to give Wimbledon a miss.. However my belief as to his train of thought stands. The knee was in trouble after the FO final. It doesnt take much to work out the rest really.

by **JuliusHMarx** Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:11 pm

I'm not sure I equate recovering from the physical and emotional effort of the FO with going fishing.

by bogbrush Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:23 pm

Nadal was injured. Wasn't that really obvious to anyone watching honestly?

But I'd add, hasn't Federer been impaired by back issue over a number of years, and wasn't his 2008 made a complete mess of by Glandular Fever? Some people have problems accepting that, and I think it is towards those people that some others see current events as opportunities to show turn about.

by barrystar Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:26 pm

bogbrush wrote:Nadal was injured. Wasn't that really obvious to anyone watching honestly?

But I'd add, hasn't Federer been impaired by back issue over a number of years, and wasn't his 2008 made a complete mess of by Glandular Fever? Some people have problems accepting that, and I think it towards those people that some others see current events as opportunities to show turn about.

I agree - but I don't think you are in the category of people saying that such matters afford an excuse, rather than an explanation? You aren't in the, "had Fed not had mono he'd have won this that and the other" camp are you?

by Haddie-nuff Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:28 pm

You said "skip" a warm up event which suggests something consciously intended.. whereas it was something quite to the contrary.

I tell you what Julius if you would loan me a dead horse I would be more than willing to flog it !!

Can I suggest a new smiley which I would find enormously helpful on this forum "A little white flag"
And another little man waiving "goodbye" Wink

Mind you saying that can we have smilies that work some of mine do some dont !!!

by **Hero** Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:33 pm

It does make me wonder reading threads such as this if you all enjoy seeing people win at tennis or enjoy seeing certain people lose.

by CaledonianCraig Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:35 pm

bogbrush wrote:Nadal was injured. Wasn't that really obvious to anyone watching honestly?

But I'd add, hasn't Federer been impaired by back issue over a number of years, and wasn't his 2008 made a complete mess of by Glandular Fever? Some people have problems accepting that, and I think it is towards those people that some others see current events as opportunities to show turn about.

Absolutely. I do agree. Every player has injuries and they have to battle through them come what may. Some deal with them better than others and some have their careers ended (hopefully not for Rafa). Your last point is very valid and I suppose that depends entirely on the poster how they want to react after a result like Rafa had yesterday.

by Haddie-nuff Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:43 pm

Hero wrote:It does make me wonder reading threads such as this if you all enjoy seeing people win at tennis or enjoy seeing certain people lose.

Hero can I have another smiley please a nail with a hammer... you have just hit it on the head:clap:

by Jeremy_Kyle Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:50 pm

Factor in injuries into results of players is always a selective, arbitrary excercise. I don't like to do that for my favourite players ( who knows how many more slams Edberg would have won without the back pain) as I don't like to see the search for excuses each time someone else favourite loses a match. It's sterile, it's not fair to the opponents as we are not taking in serious consideration their own issues, and overall worthless conjecture without any real evidence of facts.

by CaledonianCraig Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:51 pm

For me it is all about decorum. I don't get aeriated about tennis players and don't 'hate' any of them so why bother posting hurtful stuff that the players will never read anyway? These posts are directed at fans of the players who may grate with fans of other player but still is there any need for it?

Point in question is:- We all know there is a certain poster on here that posts everything and anything negative they can about Andy Murray (who I support). Even though it is relentless and they are a big Rafa fan I still would never feel the need to reciprocate and 'rub their nose in it' so to speak after yesterday's result. After all for civilised and enjoyable conversation you need a settled atmosphere in my opinion and some of the stuff posted yesterday was OTT.

by **JuliusHMarx** Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:52 pm

I don't doubt that Rafa finished the match with an injury, or at least a niggle that he rightly feared could become something more severe if he played flat out.

I just think there's plenty of evidence to suggest he went into the match fit and that it was picked up during the course of the match. Or maybe it was simply a matter of time, given the surface that his knee wouldn't last and going in to the match he had no way of knowing if it would be after a set and a half or after 6 matches.

I don't think he went into Wimby as per his description of last year, where he says that in hindsight it was a mistake and he should have pulled out. I think it was more a case of "My knee has lasted fine so far, it's fine now, and it may or may not last through Wimbledon, but we won't know until we try". Unlike on a clay court where he wouldn't be worried about it.

It's a shame and it would have been nicer if it hadn't happened that way. I didn't enjoy his loss, although upsets make the tournament interesting, but that would be the case if Fed or Djoko lost as well. Obviously I'm hoping Murray won't lose.
Nothing wring in analysing why these shocks happen though.

by **Hero** Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:10 pm

I think it's a growing blight upon all sports tbh rather than just tennis that the enjoyment does not come from seeing the underdog claim the victory but more so the favourite is beaten. At football you see fans wearing other countries shirts just because they're facing your nation, how bitter have we become?
We take more pleasure from an enemy that's lost than a triumphant hero.

by time please Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:20 pm

Hero wrote:I think it's a growing blight upon all sports tbh rather than just tennis that the enjoyment does not come from seeing the underdog claim the victory but more so the favourite is beaten. At football you see fans wearing other countries shirts just because they're facing your nation, how bitter have we become?
We take more pleasure from an enemy that's lost than a triumphant hero.

I know there is a little bit of that going on Hero, but I don't think that someone celebrating a great win for Darcis would find their sentiments much appreciated - when did we all forget to realise that upsets happen to the greatest, and without surprises there would be little point in actually watching sport for the majority.

by break_in_the_fifth Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:23 pm

I don't think it's comparable with football as tennis is in theory less nationalistic. Many people support their favourite player because the style they play with resonates with a part of them in a way that enables them to get emotionally involved in that player's career. Equally you can dislike a players style because it goes against your own philosophy and the way you think things should be done or played. In this scenario it would not be uncommon to get a lot of pleasure from seeing a player losing.

It's still tribal in the same way as the football support you mentioned but in a vast number of cases it's not just down to where a player was born. The way you put it with "enemy" and "hero", in contexts where those words might be applicable, I'm sure many occasions there'd be nothing unusual about being happier that an enemy lost rather than someone who won, especially if you were more acquainted with the enemy.

by **Hero** Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:25 pm

I'm all for celebrating the Darcis win, that's the whole point. An upset in any sport is wonderful when the focus is on the underdog winner, nowadays though the spotlight is more on pouring scorn upon the fallen loser.

by time please Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:27 pm

Not for everyone!

by lags72 Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:27 pm

It's entirely natural that Rafa's first-ever R1 exit in a Slam should come under a lot of scrutiny but equally I feel that both the minute analysis and (especially) the somewhat melodramatic and premature speculation on the future, can be over done.

Personally I feel that when set against the context of an otherwise highly impressive Wimbledon record of two titles from five finals, this surprise loss does not signal the end of his grass court career - despite the fact that many observers seem to be hastily raising this prospect ; and yes, including many who by all normal measures are far, far more qualified than I am, not least Boris Becker.

It does seem surprising that the same knee which survived so well throughout the amazing run of nine successive finals should suddenly give up on him so suddenly after just one round on grass and against an opponent who would not be widely considered as offering the toughest of tests (but my unreserved compliments to Darcis for sticking to his task so admirably and never once flagging over the 3 sets).

None of us really know for sure to what extent precisely - if indeed any - his knee troubles contributed to yesterday's defeat. But what I do believe is that far too much weight has been given in some quarters to his lack of match practice on grass. I seem to recall one poster yesterday emphasising a stat that Rafa had apparently played "only" five grass court matches in around 13 months prior to this year's Wimbledon - the clear implication being that with such a track record you can't possibly be expected to perform competently on the surface. And yet Rafa came into the tournament on what was perhaps the best-ever start to a year of his ATP tour career, fully fit and rested, with the massive confidence boost of an unprecedented 8th title at any one Slam.

Perhaps many have either forgotten - or were never even aware to begin with - that Bjorn Borg played hardly any grass events other than Wimbledon. Sure, he would always come to Wimbledon in good time for grass practise but I can't actually remember him competing in any sanctioned events in between RG and SW19. Borg played a few grass events out in Australia (including his one appearance at the AO when it was still on grass) when he was very young but this was well before the days of his Wimbledon domination years and of course at a completely different time of the season. He managed the transition from clay success to grass success - year after year, and seemingly without any issues or drama. AND - many would say - during a period when the two surfaces offered much more contrast & variation that they do today.

If it is the case that Rafa - for whatever reason - is unable to move from clay to grass in the way that many other players seem to do then, okay, he will perhaps wish to review his yearly schedule accordingly. But to me that's more about his overall ability as a tennis player to adapt to different surfaces rather than any physical issues concerning his knees. As I said earlier, there might be just too much unfounded speculation as regards injury - for example Haddie has written earlier that Rafa was advised NOT TO PLAY at Wimbledon (Haddie's capitals). However .... unless Haddie has direct access to Rafa's medical notes or happened to be sitting in on the consultation then I think it would be dangerous to take this assertion as gospel.

by bogbrush Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:38 pm

barrystar wrote:
bogbrush wrote:Nadal was injured. Wasn't that really obvious to anyone watching honestly?

But I'd add, hasn't Federer been impaired by back issue over a number of years, and wasn't his 2008 made a complete mess of by Glandular Fever? Some people have problems accepting that, and I think it towards those people that some others see current events as opportunities to show turn about.

I agree - but I don't think you are in the category of people saying that such matters afford an excuse, rather than an explanation? You aren't in the, "had Fed not had mono he'd have won this that and the other" camp are you?

No, I'm not. I'm just trying to show that for those Rafa fans rightly complaining that his genuine injury is being softened for impact, please bear in mind that other players (notably Federer) have also had considerable injury and some have sought to discount those effects.

What I'm saying is either recognise all injuries or ignore them all. Don't expect to cherry pick and get away with it.

by kingraf Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:39 pm

"That" poster was me. Go on... Look at how often Nadal has played Wimbledon without a warm-up. Also, its pretty funny to read a comment which says: " does seem surprising that the same
knee which survived so well
throughout the amazing run of nine
successive finals should suddenly give
up on him so suddenly after just one
round on grass".

Sorry, but thats incredibly flawed logic. The knee isnt a computer. Its a body part which has its own limits. I dont necessarily think the knee was soley to blame, but your logic is on that "I put 50000 straws on that camels back, I cant believe it broke after only one more", level.

As for the upset, I'm not a fan of the underdog winning, just because they are the underdog. They have to somehow enchant me, if you will. To use a boxing analogy, I'll gladly cheer the underdog if they got a Hail Mary Knock Out, but not scrappy dodgy ugly win. Obviously Darcis' wasnt scrappy (it was actually pretty clean), but Im a bigger fan of watching an underdog come through like Rosol did a year ago, or even Tsonga in 2008.

by ChequeredJersey Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:42 pm

bogbrush wrote:
barrystar wrote:
bogbrush wrote:Nadal was injured. Wasn't that really obvious to anyone watching honestly?

But I'd add, hasn't Federer been impaired by back issue over a number of years, and wasn't his 2008 made a complete mess of by Glandular Fever? Some people have problems accepting that, and I think it towards those people that some others see current events as opportunities to show turn about.

I agree - but I don't think you are in the category of people saying that such matters afford an excuse, rather than an explanation? You aren't in the, "had Fed not had mono he'd have won this that and the other" camp are you?

No, I'm not. I'm just trying to show that for those Rafa fans rightly complaining that his genuine injury is being softened for impact, please bear in mind that other players (notably Federer) have also had considerable injury and some have sought to discount those effects.

What I'm saying is either recognise all injuries or ignore them all. Don't expect to cherry pick and get away with it.

This is absolutely fair. All players have injuries and they are not excuses, though they will be factors in that. My sole worry is that Rafa's may stop him playing on grass in the future. It would also sadden me if the predictions of early retirement made by many followers of the sport a couple of years ago are proven to be accurate ones

by bogbrush Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:42 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:For me it is all about decorum. I don't get aeriated about tennis players and don't 'hate' any of them so why bother posting hurtful stuff that the players will never read anyway? These posts are directed at fans of the players who may grate with fans of other player but still is there any need for it?

Point in question is:- We all know there is a certain poster on here that posts everything and anything negative they can about Andy Murray (who I support). Even though it is relentless and they are a big Rafa fan I still would never feel the need to reciprocate and 'rub their nose in it' so to speak after yesterday's result. After all for civilised and enjoyable conversation you need a settled atmosphere in my opinion and some of the stuff posted yesterday was OTT.

Who are you referring to?

Cool

by CaledonianCraig Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:44 pm

bogbrush wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:For me it is all about decorum. I don't get aeriated about tennis players and don't 'hate' any of them so why bother posting hurtful stuff that the players will never read anyway? These posts are directed at fans of the players who may grate with fans of other player but still is there any need for it?

Point in question is:- We all know there is a certain poster on here that posts everything and anything negative they can about Andy Murray (who I support). Even though it is relentless and they are a big Rafa fan I still would never feel the need to reciprocate and 'rub their nose in it' so to speak after yesterday's result. After all for civilised and enjoyable conversation you need a settled atmosphere in my opinion and some of the stuff posted yesterday was OTT.

Who are you referring to?

You.

by CaledonianCraig Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:44 pm

Seriously, you know who I speak of BB. Wink

by Guest Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:59 pm

Well Nadal is fine... he took the loss very well, said nothing of any possible knee issue, and thats that really.
He got beat by a guy playing really well, having not really prepared for a day 1 grass court, of which he ahs always struggled with because he is first of all a clay man. Despite the fact he has to wrestle with his game though, hes made 5 finals and 2 titles, he has as many titles and more finals than Stefan Edberg (which really surprised me) soo the man needs no sympathy. Hes fine, fishing at home with his family, and prepping for his return.
Injury talk is just wasted breath now... the man has no need for people justifying why, occasionally hes lose to a player he probably should beat. I believe they call it "sport".

Its a shame some people rather see people lose than watch someone win, but thats life, there are people like that everywhere, especially on the internet where they know they wont get smacked in the face for being rude.

by bogbrush Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:01 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Seriously, you know who I speak of BB.

by bogbrush Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:03 pm

falzy21 wrote:Well Nadal is fine... he took the loss very well, said nothing of any possible knee issue, and thats that really.
He got beat by a guy playing really well, having not really prepared for a day 1 grass court, of which he ahs always struggled with because he is first of all a clay man. Despite the fact he has to wrestle with his game though, hes made 5 finals and 2 titles, he has as many titles and more finals than Stefan Edberg (which really surprised me) soo the man needs no sympathy. Hes fine, fishing at home with his family, and prepping for his return.
Injury talk is just wasted breath now... the man has no need for people justifying why, occasionally hes lose to a player he probably should beat. I believe they call it "sport".

Its a shame some people rather see people lose than watch someone win, but thats life, there are people like that everywhere, especially on the internet where they know they wont get smacked in the face for being rude.

I think it's because Steve Darcis is absolutely hopeless and from what I saw late last night didn't really play much above himself.

If he got the ball onto the backhand he was quids in, especially when Nadal skipped most way across to Centre Court to play the forehand.

by CaledonianCraig Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:05 pm

bogbrush wrote:
falzy21 wrote:Well Nadal is fine... he took the loss very well, said nothing of any possible knee issue, and thats that really.
He got beat by a guy playing really well, having not really prepared for a day 1 grass court, of which he ahs always struggled with because he is first of all a clay man. Despite the fact he has to wrestle with his game though, hes made 5 finals and 2 titles, he has as many titles and more finals than Stefan Edberg (which really surprised me) soo the man needs no sympathy. Hes fine, fishing at home with his family, and prepping for his return.
Injury talk is just wasted breath now... the man has no need for people justifying why, occasionally hes lose to a player he probably should beat. I believe they call it "sport".

Its a shame some people rather see people lose than watch someone win, but thats life, there are people like that everywhere, especially on the internet where they know they wont get smacked in the face for being rude.

If he got the ball onto the backhand he was quids in, especially when Nadal skipped most way across to Centre Court to play the forehand.

Yes I saw that. That was very odd.

by Jeremy_Kyle Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:14 pm

I have seen so many players choking the important points against Nadal in years of tennis, that I cannot but admire his courage and his determination to do the full job, and not just half of it.

by Haddie-nuff Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:00 pm

lags72 wrote:It's entirely natural that Rafa's first-ever R1 exit in a Slam should come under a lot of scrutiny but equally I feel that both the minute analysis and (especially) the somewhat melodramatic and premature speculation on the future, can be over done.

Personally I feel that when set against the context of an otherwise highly impressive Wimbledon record of two titles from five finals, this surprise loss does not signal the end of his grass court career - despite the fact that many observers seem to be hastily raising this prospect ; and yes, including many who by all normal measures are far, far more qualified than I am, not least Boris Becker.

It does seem surprising that the same knee which survived so well throughout the amazing run of nine successive finals should suddenly give up on him so suddenly after just one round on grass and against an opponent who would not be widely considered as offering the toughest of tests (but my unreserved compliments to Darcis for sticking to his task so admirably and never once flagging over the 3 sets).

None of us really know for sure to what extent precisely - if indeed any - his knee troubles contributed to yesterday's defeat. But what I do believe is that far too much weight has been given in some quarters to his lack of match practice on grass. I seem to recall one poster yesterday emphasising a stat that Rafa had apparently played "only" five grass court matches in around 13 months prior to this year's Wimbledon - the clear implication being that with such a track record you can't possibly be expected to perform competently on the surface. And yet Rafa came into the tournament on what was perhaps the best-ever start to a year of his ATP tour career, fully fit and rested, with the massive confidence boost of an unprecedented 8th title at any one Slam.

Perhaps many have either forgotten - or were never even aware to begin with - that Bjorn Borg played hardly any grass events other than Wimbledon. Sure, he would always come to Wimbledon in good time for grass practise but I can't actually remember him competing in any sanctioned events in between RG and SW19. Borg played a few grass events out in Australia (including his one appearance at the AO when it was still on grass) when he was very young but this was well before the days of his Wimbledon domination years and of course at a completely different time of the season. He managed the transition from clay success to grass success - year after year, and seemingly without any issues or drama. AND - many would say - during a period when the two surfaces offered much more contrast & variation that they do today.

If it is the case that Rafa - for whatever reason - is unable to move from clay to grass in the way that many other players seem to do then, okay, he will perhaps wish to review his yearly schedule accordingly. But to me that's more about his overall ability as a tennis player to adapt to different surfaces rather than any physical issues concerning his knees. As I said earlier, there might be just too much unfounded speculation as regards injury - for example Haddie has written earlier that Rafa was advised NOT TO PLAY at Wimbledon (Haddie's capitals). However .... unless Haddie has direct access to Rafa's medical notes or happened to be sitting in on the consultation then I think it would be dangerous to take this assertion as gospel.

Im sorry I do have to correct you here lags... You have misquoted me.. regarding Wimbledon I said I would bet my bottom € that he was advised not to play... I did not get that information from anywhere.

What I did say was when he went home to Mallorca from the FO he went straight to the doctor it was then a team and doctor decision that he should withdraw from Halle OK

by invisiblecoolers Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:33 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:CC, I don't know how much we should read into any one interview (e.g. "I'm not the favourite" before the FO final). Rafa often says he hopes the knees hold up, try my best etc.
I believe the knee was 100% fine at RG and through the clay season. There may have been mental doubts that it would hold up on grass, but I don't believe there was ever any question of him pulling out of Wimby or defying doctor's orders to play. He recently said playing Wimby last year was a big mistake - and he's too smart not to learn from that mistake and to then repeat it.
He may have felt a twinge at some point yesterday and then the doubts set in and he couldn't bring himself to fully test it out. I'm sure he'll be back sooner rather than later.

Some sense prevailed. thumbsup

by invisiblecoolers Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:37 pm

Hero wrote:It does make me wonder reading threads such as this if you all enjoy seeing people win at tennis or enjoy seeing certain people lose.

Yea thats true, this is man to man sport, so people love to see their favourite players boogey man lose, for instance

1]Fed Fans would love Nadal to lose early, so Fed's chances are boosted
2]Nadal fans would love to see Djoko lose early so his chances are boosted
3]Djoko fans would love to see Fed lose early so his chances are boosted.

by CaledonianCraig Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:39 pm

invisiblecoolers wrote:
Hero wrote:It does make me wonder reading threads such as this if you all enjoy seeing people win at tennis or enjoy seeing certain people lose.
Yea thats true, this is man to man sport, so people love to see their favourite players boogey man lose, for instance

Boogey man?? Is that a reference to Novak's dancing? laughing

by invisiblecoolers Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:Factor in injuries into results of players is always a selective, arbitrary excercise. I don't like to do that for my favourite players ( who knows how many more slams Edberg would have won without the back pain) as I don't like to see the search for excuses each time someone else favourite loses a match. It's sterile, it's not fair to the opponents as we are not taking in serious consideration their own issues, and overall worthless conjecture without any real evidence of facts.

Perfectly Nailed argument.

@CC on your theme, I would say had DP not got injured then neither Rafa, Djoko nor Murray would have won an USO ever, how about that? , if that argument looks silly so is your argument. thumbsup

by invisiblecoolers Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:44 pm

Hero wrote:I'm all for celebrating the Darcis win, that's the whole point. An upset in any sport is wonderful when the focus is on the underdog winner, nowadays though the spotlight is more on pouring scorn upon the fallen loser.

Exactly, thats whats I have been saying as well, underdog moments dont come very often, so enjoy Darcis win than diminishing it by saying oh wait Nadal is injured etc,.. , not even once a credit been given to Nadal's underdog opponent when they achieved the result.

Winners gets the bragging rights, and losers stay alive to fight another day. thumbsup

by invisiblecoolers Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:46 pm

bogbrush wrote:
barrystar wrote:
bogbrush wrote:Nadal was injured. Wasn't that really obvious to anyone watching honestly?

But I'd add, hasn't Federer been impaired by back issue over a number of years, and wasn't his 2008 made a complete mess of by Glandular Fever? Some people have problems accepting that, and I think it towards those people that some others see current events as opportunities to show turn about.

I agree - but I don't think you are in the category of people saying that such matters afford an excuse, rather than an explanation? You aren't in the, "had Fed not had mono he'd have won this that and the other" camp are you?

No, I'm not. I'm just trying to show that for those Rafa fans rightly complaining that his genuine injury is being softened for impact, please bear in mind that other players (notably Federer) have also had considerable injury and some have sought to discount those effects.

What I'm saying is either recognise all injuries or ignore them all. Don't expect to cherry pick and get away with it.

Another one nailed. thumbsup

by invisiblecoolers Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:48 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote: My sole worry is that Rafa's may stop him playing on grass in the future. It would also sadden me if the predictions of early retirement made by many followers of the sport a couple of years ago are proven to be accurate ones

Come on all based on 1 match? picard

by invisiblecoolers Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:55 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:
Im sorry I do have to correct you here lags... You have misquoted me.. regarding Wimbledon I said I would bet my bottom € that he was advised not to play... I did not get that information from anywhere.

What I did say was when he went home to Mallorca from the FO he went straight to the doctor it was then a team and doctor decision that he should withdraw from Halle OK

So the same doctors didnt advice him to withdraw from FO finals right? , come on Haddie, Nadal was fine but he was not at his best and rest is always a better solution for wear and tear, considering his wear and tear doctors might have gently advised take rest for few days/weeks before you get into practice, had it been so alarming the doctors would have red signaled Nadal to play FO finals.

The fact is 70% fit Nadal can win most Clay tournament including FO, but the same 70% fit Nadal is not enough to win on grass, Nadal needs to be at his best to Win Wimbledon which certainly wasn't the case here and hence the loss.

by Haddie-nuff Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:56 pm

invisiblecoolers wrote:
ChequeredJersey wrote: My sole worry is that Rafa's may stop him playing on grass in the future. It would also sadden me if the predictions of early retirement made by many followers of the sport a couple of years ago are proven to be accurate ones

Come on all based on 1 match?

Just remember you read it here first

by TorturedGenius Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:14 pm

Not quite sure what all the fuss is about, Nadal simply lost to a far superior grass court player

by invisiblecoolers Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:15 pm

TorturedGenius wrote:Not quite sure what all the fuss is about, Nadal simply lost to a far superior grass court player

by JubbaIsle Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:19 pm

Isn't this rather a pointless thread.........OP

"Accept Win and loss in the same manner and not as personal disaster"

So if we are denied through that quote to find sympathy for any player, then we are denied through that quote to praise them when they have won, I mean, treat both the same is the quote.

So sod off everyone, you're pointless and not needed, goodbye.

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