the OTHER nations results over the summer

The pacific nations cup had the addition of Canada and USA while Samoa where promoted to the teir 1 nations which we would agree was right for them.

Fiji won on the last day against Tonga after Canada lost to japan in their last game which was a suprise.

Japan17-27Tonga Nippatsu Mitsuzawa Stadium, Yokohama
Canada16-9USA Ellerslie Rugby Park, Edmonton
Fiji22-8Japan Churchill Park, Lautoka
Fiji18-20Canada Twin Elms Rugby Park, Nepean
Canada36-27Tonga Richardson Stadium, Kingston
USA9-18Tonga Home Depot Center, Carson, California
Fiji35-10USA Nagoya Municipal Mizuho Park Rugby Ground, Nagoya
Japan16-13Canada Nagoya Municipal Mizuho Park Rugby Ground, Nagoya
Tonga21-34Fiji Prince Chichibu Memorial Stadium, Tokyo
Japan38-20USA Prince Chichibu Memorial Stadium, Tokyo

I am not sure how strong the teams are but Canada should really be getting more then just second string teams playing them.  After all they cant do worse then Fiji.


Nations cup in bucharest

Romania30-20Russia
Argentina Jaguars6-26Emerging Italy
Romania30-8Argentina Jaguars
Russia19-27Emerging Italy
Argentina Jaguars30-17Russia
Romania26-13Emerging Italy

It should be pointed out it was more of an argentina c team then a B team but well done Romania who are number 8 in europe

Georgian cup

1st South African As
2nd Ireland As
3rd Georgia (though they lost the two big games it was by very little)
4th Uraguay

Hopefully we will see Canda get games against Italy or Scotland and Romania and geogria get games against the other pacfic nation teams.

I would like to see the IRB do some sort of funding to have the two teirs below the 6 Nations have a league of professionals playing home and away.  It would improve them alot as they would have 22 games.  They could have 40 professionals on little money.  Though i know this wont happen the irb are atleast getting things going.

Can't read too much into the PNC without Samoa, but it's good to see Fiji on the up again. They were disappointing at the RWC which was a worry but seeing them win the PNC is a positive step. Also great that Canada and the USA are included to get more game time against similarly ranked opposition

I think most people would agree that samoa is better then the rest of tbe current Pacific Nations cup but that is a problem for Sanzar and not europe.

Samoa in the last four years have beaten Wales, Scotland, Italy and Australia (not sure about argentina).

I still think that the only to improve international teams is improving the number of professionals.  It is by chance that Samoa and Argentina are better then the rest and that italy and scotland have struggled the most in the six nations.

Romania were also at there strongest when they were "professional" and geogria has the most professionals playing at a high level in europe outside of the Six nations

Georgian cup

1st South African As
2nd Ireland As
3rd Georgia (though they lost the two big games it was by very little)
4th Uraguay

I obviously didn't see many of the games you've alluded to in your post, Brendan.  But I wonder do all sides in these events use full stength teams?  

You say Ireland A and South African A, which in theory is true but in pactice wasn't quite that.  South Africa senior team did have games against Scotland, Italy and Samoa (?) this summer and yes, then their President's XV did the Tbilisi Cup.  You'd assume that President's XV was their A team as there was nothing else to play for as a second string side this summer.

But Ireland worked out differently.  The senior team had 9 players missing who were on Lions duties (growing to 10 with Best's inclusion)  Therefore, the senior squad became populated with 'A' team players... and therefore too, that diluted the Emerging Ireland side that played in the Tbilisi Cup against the South Africans, Georgians and Uruguay.

So results in that one competition were perhaps influenced by Irish players in a sense playing three events through the summer when others just had two.
Other examples of the same dilution process might have influenced results in other competitions that you've mentioned (Argentina C for example).  Did USA hold on to its overseas players after the Ireland game?

The pacific nation is a tough one as players from europe didn't appear in teams though i'm not up to date with countries players.
Ireland was more of a B\C team but the team wasn't to bad.
I think the geogian team less their top players in france etc and possible romania would give the bottom four in each of the three leagues a run for their money.
I am sure i will get "but my team beat their national team by 40 points but look at the teams who played against georgia, not bad players.
The B6N play five games a year plus 2-3 in the AIs plus 2-3 in the summer totaling say 10 games, add in 6 Amlin matches plus play the B6N over one and not two years and you would have enough games for a squad of 30 players funded by union, ERC and IRB.
B6N 10games
Summer 3
AIs 3
HC/Amlin 6
Total 22 games.

I know people will say that 30 isn't enough but they can do what all the rabo teams do and call up players on from the lower league and pay per game.

Georgia, romania, russia could do it, Spain, Portugal and Belgium is debatable.
When these then played the big boys they would have fimillarity on their side to even the feild some bit.

SecretFly wrote:
I obviously didn't see many of the games you've alluded to in your post, Brendan.  But I wonder do all sides in these events use full stength teams?  

You say Ireland A and South African A, which in theory is true but in pactice wasn't quite that.  South Africa senior team did have games against Scotland, Italy and Samoa (?) this summer and yes, then their President's XV did the Tbilisi Cup.  You'd assume that President's XV was their A team as there was nothing else to play for as a second string side this summer.

But Ireland worked out differently.  The senior team had 9 players missing who were on Lions duties (growing to 10 with Best's inclusion)  Therefore, the senior squad became populated with 'A' team players... and therefore too, that diluted the Emerging Ireland side that played in the Tbilisi Cup against the South Africans, Georgians and Uruguay.

So results in that one competition were perhaps influenced by Irish players in a sense playing three events through the summer when others just had two.

Just checked on wiki & seems the SA team was made of of players from the second tier of the Currie Cup so was more like an SA "G" team.

Where were their A team?  Ireland "C"/"D" team ( :shock:no smart comments please!) vs South Africa's G team?

Puts Georgia and Uruguay's first team performances in perspective. And subsequently our performance into perspective against the the SA Gs!

No idea, had never heard of the competition & was wondering about the level of competition Georgia played against. Considering there are 6 teams in the top tier of the Currie Cup & players weren't selected from these teams would have expected Georgia to win at home. A bit disappointing really as they seem to have potential but could stagnate.

Georgia didn't seem to have all their french based players either

Players from currie cup div2 aren't so bad to be fair.
After all the loins killed samoa by a ridiculous score.

Fly how do you think the irish team would have dkne against the bottom hakf if the Rabo/prem/T14, think they would have held their own so georgia weren't bad as both games were close. Uraguay on the other hand seemed out of their depth

Brendan wrote:

Fly how do you think the irish team would have dkne against the bottom hakf if the Rabo/prem/T14, think they would have held their own so georgia weren't bad as both games were close.  Uraguay on the other hand seemed out of their depth

Georgia were good ...for first team Georgia. But put first team Georgia against first team Ireland and if both teams were playing to their potential I still couldn't see it as being anything but a heavy scoring game from Ireland.

Would a bottom half Rabo/AP/Top14 side have a real shot at a full strength 6N side? Perhaps they would have one or maybe two games where they'd fight tough enough (seems anyone can beat France these days...except us! ) but they'd be well off the pace in general and would be destroyed by top ranking 6N sides in any given year.

I just think a lot of relativity has to go into certain results when these kind of teams collide...most expecially in the real differences between the quality of first team choice players for the differing Nations.

Re. the South Africa Presidents XV and Emerging Ireland; Neither side were A teams- A teams award caps and are usually the designated second team of that nation. Getting an A cap is binding to that nation.

These were just select teams with no caps given out afaik.

SecretFly wrote:

Brendan wrote:

Fly how do you think the irish team would have dkne against the bottom hakf if the Rabo/prem/T14, think they would have held their own so georgia weren't bad as both games were close.  Uraguay on the other hand seemed out of their depth

Georgia were good ...for first team Georgia.  But put first team Georgia against first team Ireland and if both teams were playing to their potential I still couldn't see it as being anything but a heavy scoring game from Ireland.  

Would a bottom half Rabo/AP/Top14 side have a real shot at a full strength 6N side?  Perhaps they would have one or maybe two games where they'd fight tough enough (seems anyone can beat France these days...except us! ) but they'd be well off the pace in general and would be destroyed by top ranking 6N sides in any given year.  

I just think a lot of relativity has to go into certain results when these kind of teams collide...most expecially in the real differences between the quality of first team choice players for the differing Nations.

I agree that ireland would kill them but as the AIs showed they are a match for the pacific nations teams and lets not forget we killed Canada who should have won the PIs but lost to Japan.

It is kinda unfair that the PIs get all the games but the others at their level get nothing.

I also think the more georgia and others get ti play as a team they would get better.

I wouldn't mind having the 6N a teams play with the B6N but for political reasons it wont happen

SecretFly wrote:

Brendan wrote:

Fly how do you think the irish team would have dkne against the bottom hakf if the Rabo/prem/T14, think they would have held their own so georgia weren't bad as both games were close.  Uraguay on the other hand seemed out of their depth

Georgia were good ...for first team Georgia.  But put first team Georgia against first team Ireland and if both teams were playing to their potential I still couldn't see it as being anything but a heavy scoring game from Ireland.  

Would a bottom half Rabo/AP/Top14 side have a real shot at a full strength 6N side?  Perhaps they would have one or maybe two games where they'd fight tough enough (seems anyone can beat France these days...except us! ) but they'd be well off the pace in general and would be destroyed by top ranking 6N sides in any given year.  

I just think a lot of relativity has to go into certain results when these kind of teams collide...most expecially in the real differences between the quality of first team choice players for the differing Nations.

That Georgia team was not even close to full strength. They were missing some where in the region of 13 players, most of whom play in the top 14. They were down to their 4th or 5th choice front row. A full Georgia team would have destroyed that Emerging Ireland team. Imagine if Gorgodze was playing

Brendan wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Brendan wrote:

Fly how do you think the irish team would have dkne against the bottom hakf if the Rabo/prem/T14, think they would have held their own so georgia weren't bad as both games were close.  Uraguay on the other hand seemed out of their depth

Georgia were good ...for first team Georgia.  But put first team Georgia against first team Ireland and if both teams were playing to their potential I still couldn't see it as being anything but a heavy scoring game from Ireland.  

Would a bottom half Rabo/AP/Top14 side have a real shot at a full strength 6N side?  Perhaps they would have one or maybe two games where they'd fight tough enough (seems anyone can beat France these days...except us! ) but they'd be well off the pace in general and would be destroyed by top ranking 6N sides in any given year.  

I just think a lot of relativity has to go into certain results when these kind of teams collide...most expecially in the real differences between the quality of first team choice players for the differing Nations.

I agree that ireland would kill them but as the AIs showed they are a match for the pacific nations teams and lets not forget we killed Canada who should have won the PIs but lost to Japan.

It is kinda unfair that the PIs get all the games but the others at their level get nothing.

I also think the more georgia and others get ti play as a team they would get better.

I wouldn't mind having the 6N a teams play with the B6N but for political reasons it wont happen

We didn't "kill them" in the 07 world cup. Georgia nearly beat both us and Argentina in that comp. Georgia have a pack to match any in Europe which is why they can be competitive but are seriously lacking quality backs.

They are concentrating on 7s now to try and produce some good young backs for the national side. Also their government is investing more money in the sport than ever before.

I distinctly said I wouldn't mention 2007 here...because I knew someone else would.

2007...its like Ireland's 1966 - backwards.

SecretFly wrote:I distinctly said I wouldn't mention 2007 here...because I knew someone else would.

2007...its like Ireland's 1966 - backwards.

54 mins on the clock. Georgia 10-7 Ireland.

why are we so bad in world cups?

Surely england could put a side in the nations cup made up of promising youngsters and jeff stalwarts (scaysbrook, arscott, guest etc).im sure it would have benefitted someone like sinckler to get some game time against big romanian or Russian props.we could call them the 'Druids' or something

BTW.  I checked out things and the Georgian gameday 22 had around 400 senior caps between them, Ireland had I think 7 ( I might be a little off on both there but not by much).  Georgia had I think only 5 uncapped players in their 22, whilst Ireland had 18.  Ireland won 20 - 15.

So Georgia did very well?  Well,.... I think 400 senior caps should be thinking of imposing themselves much more on a side with 7 - unless that gap at International level between top ten Nations and the others is a real one.  I think it still is....for now...just!  The Ranking board is very jumpy in recent months.

SecretFly wrote:BTW.  I checked out things and the Georgian gameday 22 had around 400 senior caps between them, Ireland had I think 7 ( I might be a little off on both there but not by much).  Georgia had I think only 5 uncapped players in their 22, whilst Ireland had 18.  Ireland won 20 - 15.

So Georgia did very well?  Well,.... I think 400 senior caps should be thinking of imposing themselves much more on a side with 7 - unless that gap at International level between top ten Nations and the others is a real one.  I think it still is....for now...just!  The Ranking board is very jumpy in recent months.

Ye but most of them caps are against lower level opposition. Their french based players have fewer caps but WAY more experience. As I said earlier they were down to their 4th or 5th choice front row and even that had a top 14 player in it. Also they were without their main man Gorgodze. He alone would have been the difference in Georgia potentially winning the tournament.

I think we would agree that it does drop off but in the last two world cups they have held there own well.
I think that Georgia would be simillar to japan and the USA.
There one problem is all the teams they play are ranked 12-20.

I loved Geogria's manager after the uraguay game where they have won well and he sayes they needed to have got the BP so he was disappointed.

The irish pack in that tourny will have learned alot from playing SA AND Georgia as they would be strong and agressive.