If the Lions win this Saturday??

Will Gatland stick with the same players that start this Saturday?

Or will he give the rest of the Lions that have not played in any test a chance to start player Like Wade, Barrit, Kerny. in the THIRD AND FINAL TEST?

Or do you think a 3 nil white wash is the more important than giving the players a Lions test cap?

Gatland will want the whitewash. I don't think the Lions jersey is about giving everyone a chance, no matter how tempting. They should put the best available squad out to try to get a 3-0.

Ohh ...this is the eating of the cake too part...

Whoever wins I would expect the strongest side in the coaches eyes (maybe one eye) put out for the third test.

The better question is what if the Lions lose this Saturday. makes a third test selection all the more crucial.

Remember the last two years Oz lost to Samoa first up- then trounced SA a week later.
last year they lost to Scotland then beat the Welsh a week later.

And in 2001 the Lions also trounced them first up, then lost the second...

See the swings? Not a lot of roundabouts...

One things for sure, on that basis Oz will be looking to turn the tables again.

If we go 2-0 up I hope he will give the likes of Gray, Tipuric, Faletau, Tuilagi and Hogg a game, or at least a spot on the bench. Not bothered about the likes of Wade, Barritt, Twelvetrees etc as they haven't been in the tour from the start so not as deserving in my opinion.

Yeah pick the strongest team.

No matter what however please don't suggest Barritt again...I don't even want him in the England team

Deserving? Deserving is to force your way into the team through stronger performances than your rivals, not to be given a sympathy vote by the coaches. That is anti-deserving!

So you could still argue that Tipuric, Gray and Faletau deserve a game and Tuilagi will do if BOD performs as he did last week. And Hogg deserves to be on the bench over Cuthbert.

The coaches picked a player last week who was carrying a knee injury and proved he didn't deserve to be picked but they went with him because of who he was, not how he was or how he was playing.

They're very experienced pro coaches. They know more than you or me.

You have to go for 3-0 if it's on. Winning a series would be a massive thing for Gatland of course, but 3-0 is a huge statement.

If it were 2-0 next week then the people who have been close calls like Grant, Gray, Faletau, SOB, Farrell (possibly) and Maitland deserve a run but then you couldn't put them all in. One things for sure though, Sam will be captain again (bar a loss of form Sat), as he'd have to lift the trophy and so I'd imagine he'd start.

Just like last week, you don't really know what your best 15 is on any such day until the end approaches.

Had Beale stayed on his feet (and wore the right studs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ) then what would we be saying today?  "These guys can't hack it and shouldn't be getting a second chance when there are other guys who have been putting their hands up in the lesser games"

Funny how good and bad is dictated by the boot of an opposition player.

The best available squad will prove itself in the result at the weekend.  If it doesn't then Wade, Barrit, Kearney or Hogg might just be what's needed for the third.

In short, don't think a second string team will be playing the third test because the other guys have done the business - the second string might be the only hope left

Gents, let's just win Saturday first, eh?
Besides, by the third test most of the team will be injured and Ronan O'Gara will be recalled to play in the centres.

Griff wrote:Deserving? Deserving is to force your way into the team through stronger performances than your rivals, not to be given a sympathy vote by the coaches. That is anti-deserving!

What.......like Gatland has done with Alex Cuthbert this week you mean?

Yeah, the Aussies will be well up for this one...it'll be a fearsome test physically and lets not forget just how good the Wallabies can be...especially with Genia pulling the strings and Beale looking to make up for last week.

That makes them a formidable team.

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

Griff wrote:Deserving? Deserving is to force your way into the team through stronger performances than your rivals, not to be given a sympathy vote by the coaches. That is anti-deserving!

What.......like Gatland has done with Alex Cuthbert this week you mean?

Sympathy vote? Top performing winger dropped for someone coming back for injury who might come good? Bowe had a broken hand a minute ago. What a kick in the teeth for Cuthbert.

A broken hand is not the same as a broken foot.... he can keep fit and do some forms of training. I don't think its a bad decision... Cuthbert is a mere novice in test rugby... we need veterans out there for the 2nd test.

He's got more caps than Geoff Parling and Vunipola. Get them off too then!

No world class player behind those 2 though... unlike Cuthbert.

Bowe is a better player then Cuthbert. Bateman was the best centre on form in 97... didn't mean he got close to pushing Gibbs or Guscott out of the test team.

Griff wrote:

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

Griff wrote:Deserving? Deserving is to force your way into the team through stronger performances than your rivals, not to be given a sympathy vote by the coaches. That is anti-deserving!

What.......like Gatland has done with Alex Cuthbert this week you mean?

Sympathy vote?  Top performing winger dropped for someone coming back for injury who might come good?  Bowe had a broken hand a minute ago.  What a kick in the teeth for Cuthbert.

But I thought the coaches knew more than us, Griff, and are therefore always right?

Exactly, which is why Kelly Brown is at home and Hogg is in the team hotel.

fa0019 wrote:No world class player behind those 2 though... unlike Cuthbert.

Bowe is a better player then Cuthbert. Bateman was the best centre on form in 97... didn't mean he got close to pushing Gibbs or Guscott out of the test team.

The difference is that Cuthbert is already in the test team and has been dropped while performing well for someone who hasn't played in order to judge his performance - Bowe hasn't earned a recall, he's just been recalled. I'm a huge Bowe fan and he would have been in my test team before the injury. All I'm saying is that it's harsh to get dropped for doing nothing wrong. If Gatland had dropped BOD for Manu then there would have been uproar as he has done nothing wrong to get dropped! What happened to the 'man in possession of the jersey' notion?

Griff... I'm sure even you can accept that had the lions coach not been the Welsh coach also that certain players wouldn't have made the tour???

Lydiate wouldn't have been risked by anyone else.... his performances have been at best average (regardless of his pedigree). It is just (if not more) cynical then SCW choosing JW in 05, JW had more games before selection then Lydiate and was a genuine proven test player and performer... Lydiate has only been around for 2 years.

Every coach chooses their favourites, every coach has their pet hate players.... I accept that... but Brown, Robshaw etc would probably have featured in most coaches choices (apart from Gatland).

Will it work out.... perhaps. We'll have to see come Saturday.

Griff wrote:

fa0019 wrote:No world class player behind those 2 though... unlike Cuthbert.

Bowe is a better player then Cuthbert. Bateman was the best centre on form in 97... didn't mean he got close to pushing Gibbs or Guscott out of the test team.

The difference is that Cuthbert is already in the test team and has been dropped while performing well for someone who hasn't played in order to judge his performance - Bowe hasn't earned a recall, he's just been recalled.  I'm a huge Bowe fan and he would have been in my test team before the injury.  All I'm saying is that it's harsh to get dropped for doing nothing wrong.  If Gatland had dropped BOD for Manu then there would have been uproar as he has done nothing wrong to get dropped!  What happened to the 'man in possession of the jersey' notion?

If a man is better, then it doesn't matter if the guy in his place was playing well (Cuthbert scored yes but his overall game was otherwise questionable last saturday).

Say Wales are in the RWC final in 2015 and Adam Jones missed the SF due to injury. His replacement plays well.... does it mean you don't bring back Jones?

Happened in 2003.... Mike Catt put in 2 very good performances in the QF & SF vs. Wales and France.... probably the difference in the QF for sure when he came on. Still he was dropped for the final as Tindall was seemed as better suited to the game plan SCW wanted to use.

I see what you're saying, and it's just opinion, but I can't really see any 6s pulling up trees. SOB would have been my pick for this game, but the current argument is about Croft and for me he's done no more than Lydiate this tour. He had a good try, but Lydiate has scored one too. Apparently the stats favour Lydiate too, so I'm told.

And yes, I see what you mean about the Adam Jones example. All I'm saying is that it's harsh on the incumbent when they've haven't played poorly. To say that Cuthbert's game was questionable last week sounds like you're just trying to prove a point by adding a negative statement. What did Cuthbert do wrong? There were about 15 questionable performances from the Lions if you ask me.

I think the main q mark over cuthbert on the bench is his flexibility to cover more than one position

he has not played badly, but this is one factor

Yeah, I've got no problem with that. My only point from earlier is that I don't think Cuthbert is there as a sympathy vote - I think it's a little harsh to drop him when he's playing well. Just the 'sympathy vote' term was my problem. I think he's just missed out and is perhpas there in case Bowe breaks down again - I do appreciate he's not a utility back though.

For what it's worth my team would have been:

Grant
Youngs
Jones
AWJ
Gray
SOB
Warbs
Heaslip/Faletau (still can't decide)
Youngs
Sexton
North
Bod
Davies
Bowe
Halfpenny

(I may have got the wings the wrong way round - I always do).

Cuthbert isn't a utility player but Bowe is.... given that you don't need a versatile player on the bench.

This is what the subs will be if the following players get injured in the backs.

9. -   Murray straight swap.
10. - Farrell straight swap
11. - Cuthbert straight swap.
12. - Farrell straight swap.
13. - Davies to 13, Farrel to 12.
14. - Cuthbert straight swap.
15. - Bowe to 15, Cuthbert to 14.

Cuthbert wasn't a sympathy vote... it was probably him vs. Manu for the spot and given Manu's fitness and lack of game time, Cuthbert probably got the nod.

fa0019 wrote:Cuthbert isn't a utility player but Bowe is.... given that you don't need a versatile player on the bench.

This is what the subs will be if the following players get injured in the backs.

9. -   Murray straight swap.
10. - Farrell straight swap
11. - Cuthbert straight swap.
12. - Farrell straight swap.
13. - Davies to 13, Farrel to 12.
14. - Cuthbert straight swap.
15. - Bowe to 15, Cuthbert to 14.

Cuthbert wasn't a sympathy vote... it was probably him vs. Manu for the spot and given Manu's fitness and lack of game time, Cuthbert probably got the nod.

Don't be surprised to see North move in to 12 at some point and Cuthbert out onto the wing. North is an impressive inside centre having played all his age grade rugby there. He will also give the go forward ball at centre that Gatland loves.

I don't doubt he will come inside off set moves to crash in Roberts absence... but move him to 12, a position he's never played in the biggest test match in rugby outside of a RWC final.... unlikely/suicidal.

If the Lions win this Saturday....

I will be a very drunk & happy boy.

Let's get there first

Metal Tiger wrote:If the Lions win this Saturday....

I will be a very drunk & happy boy.

ditto.

 If we win on Saturday - The team for the 3rd Test will be

15 - Halfpenny
14 - Cuthbert
13 - J Davies
12 - BOD
11 - North
10 - Sexton
9 - Phillips
8 - Faleatau
7 - Warburton
6 - Lydiate
5 - Evans
4 - AWJ
3 - Adam J
2 - Hibbard
1 - Corbisoero

Tipuric and 7 others will be on the bench

Ruby,

That's six changes to a winning side (if they win). It's unlikely.

Why will Bowe, Tom Youngs, Heaslip and Parling lose their places?

Vunipola and Ben Youngs dropping to the bench I can kind of understand as they were replacing injured players (assuming Phillips is injured).

Or are you assuming Gats will want to get onside with his Welsh players before returning to the Welsh set-up? With an angry Edwards waiting for him he may need some friends.

 

I think Gatland will feel liberated from the quota obligation and he'll just pick the best team Cyril

RubyGuby wrote: 

I think Gatland will feel liberated from the quota obligation and he'll just pick the best team Cyril

Ruby, you know that this Lions tour has just been set up so the Welsh can beat the Aussies. It was becoming a national crisis. It's also shown that you need a bit of help, which we've been happy to do (except the Scots - they've refused to take part in these shenanigans - and good on 'em). Put two many Welsh in there and you'll get back to 7 defeats in a row (or whatever it was) territory.

 
Now now Cyril it's not as if it's 3-30 in the morning