Where are the Vunipola apologists now?

Absolutely useless. No other comment required

And a thug, who should be cited and banned.

I just dont get why you keep him on for eighty minutes when its clear he is getting munched. Oh wait, its because his replacement is a Scot, and we cant have that can we...

 Very classy....

No doubt Gatland will still try to play him for the full 80 minutes. Our only hope is that he is cited and banned.

Insanely stubborn coaching from gatland to keep Vinupolo on for 40 let alone 80 minutes. If OConner had played well they could have put another couple of scores on us. Only great breakdown work kept us in it.

Ryan Grant must be unbelievably frustrated.
Will a Scot ever get on in this series never mind start a test?

Vunipola looked like he was about to black out. Grant should ask for his plane ticket home to get training with Glasgow. He is clearly not in consideration.

You Scots do like to play the martyr. Vunipola conceded a few pens by lack of experience at the engagement, but when it stayed up our scrum was superior. Grant probably should have come on at the end as Vunipola was shattered but I cant see how Grant not coming on really affected the result.

Scrum was a mess, but he was the best tackler for the Lions. 15 tackles. 2 defenders beaten. We all knew his weakness was in the scrum and his strengths were in the loose. It worked out just as expected, that was the call Gatland decided to make.

He was even suffering from cramp 10 minutes from the end but Gatland kept him on!
Even when Will Greenwood asked Gatland about the scrums, he just shrugged his shoulders and said you take the good (that will be Jones and Cole) with the bad (that will be Vunipola)

Gatland is a stubborn fool. Vinapola should have been on at half time. Those who think Grant doesn't offer anything in the loose have never seen him play.

Vunipola wasnt bad. Yes a wobbly 15 minutes but after that the scrum was good apart from Joubert allowing the Aussies to push early.

Its pretty rare to see the full front row subs not used, especially when Vunipola had been struggling in the scrums and was struggling with cramp.

Grant is a fine player, and should have been given a go in the last 20 or so

Yes I agree, but I disagree whole heartedly with the OP saying he was useless.

Manu's Boxing Coach wrote:You Scots do like to play the martyr. Vunipola conceded a few pens by lack of experience at the engagement, but when it stayed up our scrum was superior. Grant probably should have come on at the end as Vunipola was shattered but I cant see how Grant not coming on really affected the result.

Nothing to do with martyrdom. Just a complaint at bad management and a player who isn't good enough to be a starting Lions prop. And to play him for the full 80 minutes??! It is nothing to do with nationality. I would have been screaming at the TV for the replacement LH to be on after the first half irrespective of what country he was from

Manu's Boxing Coach wrote:Vunipola wasnt bad. Yes a wobbly 15 minutes but after that the scrum was good apart from Joubert allowing the Aussies to push early.

I didn't see early pushing although Australia did repeatedly win the hit. I did see vunipola boring in for the entire game though

Manu's Boxing Coach wrote:Yes I agree, but I disagree whole heartedly with the OP saying he was useless.

It is a ridiculous comment because Vunipola was actually the top tackler for the Lions, beat the most defenders, and apparently affected a lot of turnovers also.

I am right here ready to crush your petty criticisms of Mako.

I wonder if you ignoramuses actually watched the match! Kick able penalties from the scrum - 9-3 to the Lions. He was part of a few scrums when they smashed the Aussies.

Take the chip off the shoulder please, it must weigh an awful lot!


Vunipola IMO was good today. His work rate was immense as always. His tackling is excellent. He found it tough at scrum time but did win more penalties than he gave away.Nuisance at the breakdown too - made at least 1 turnover.

Gatland kept him on because like me he saw what he did well.

15 tackles (more than anyone else) and won 3 turnovers (same as Warburton).

Rory - you don't pick a prop with a view to him being top tackler. If he can't do the basics of his "proper" job ie scrummaging, he becomes a luxury in my eyes.

A props job is to scrummage. Anything else is a bonus.

InjuredYetAgain wrote:Rory - you don't pick a prop with a view to him being top tackler. If he can't do the basics of his "proper" job ie scrummaging, he becomes a luxury in my eyes.

You claimed he was useless though - that is a silly comment to make because he had a huge impact in the loose. I agree that the primary duty of a prop is to scrummage, but Vunipola improved there also in the second half. He was far from useless though, he did the job Gatland selected him for.

beshocked wrote:I am right here ready to crush your petty criticisms of Mako.

I wonder if you ignoramuses actually watched the match! Kick able penalties from the scrum - 9-3 to the Lions. He was part of a few scrums when they smashed the Aussies.

Take the chip off the shoulder please, it must weigh an awful lot!


Vunipola IMO was good today. His work rate was immense as always. His tackling is excellent. He found it tough at scrum time but did win more penalties than he gave away.Nuisance at the breakdown too - made at least 1 turnover.

Gatland kept him on because like me he saw what he did well.

If you listened to the ref Adam Jones won at least two of those penalties
Never mind he chip on my shoulder, take your rosé tinted glasses off. Even McGeechan (you know the guy who can actually coach the Lions to a series win) said that he would have taken Vunipola off at half time. Or is he an ignoramus too?

Corbisiero is clearly first choice though. He was fantastic in the scrum and the loose last weekend.

Rory - I was petty enough to keep an eye on Vunipola and he spent most of the second half walking about.

InjuredYetAgain wrote:Rory - you don't pick a prop with a view to him being top tackler. If he can't do the basics of his "proper" job ie scrummaging, he becomes a luxury in my eyes.

+1

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Corbisiero is clearly first choice though.  He was fantastic in the scrum and the loose last weekend.

I agree totally with that and would have no problem with him starting AND finishing the 3rd test

But leaving him on was the right thing to do. After the first couple of penalties the Lions scrum was dominant.

He struggled in the scrums in the first half, but improved after half time. Consider his stats though. Made as many turnovers as Warburton. More tackles than anyone else. Something doesn't add up by saying he had a poor game.

Duty doesn't surprise me yet Vunipola is still criticised!

Perhaps having a lightweight hooker and 2nd row didn't help? Noticeable improvement when Hibbard replaced T.Youngs.

Still 9-3 in the scrum penalties. We lost to the Aussies because of poor decision making. Particularly because of the backs. Not Mako but certain posters want their scape goat.

To be fair Gatland rates Matt Stevens as one of the 3 best THs in the Uk and Ireland. So when it comes to desicions about Props nothing surprises me.

Lions got what they deserved today, nothing!!

Mcgeechan has gone down hill in coaching standards. Look at his shambolic tenure with bath as an example of that.

The scrum is a 8 man job. You can't cherry pick who to criticise when you want. Rugby is a team game.

Blaming Vunipola is pointless and unfair - ire should be directed at the FatMan who put him in that position and kept him there when he was put on his feet

When the two teams actually scrummaged the Lions were far superior. But the Aussies were canny pushing early and not binding on engagement making it hard for the Lions to get a scrum together. The pens against Vunipola were more about his inexperience than lack of ability.

beshocked wrote:Mcgeechan has gone down hill in coaching standards. Look at his shambolic tenure with bath as an example of that.

The scrum is a 8 man job. You can't cherry pick who to criticise when you want. Rugby is a team game.

You are right to a point but one particularly weak link in a scrum will be exposed no matter how good the other 7 guys are If it wasn't one of us would be playing LH for the Lions

I fear he will be cited for his elbow on AAC too

beshocked wrote:Do you numb skulls ( mainly from Scotland in this case) believe the lions lost because of the scrum ( Mako)?

Who has said they lost the game because of only the scrum?

Even if you do blame Vunipola for the scrum pens, you cannot deny that he was also part of the scrum penalties for us and was exceptional in the loose. How is that being useless?

Calling people (mainly Scots by your own admission) "Numbskulls" and "ignoramuses" in the one thread, be shocked
Bordering on racism there?

Manu's Boxing Coach wrote:When the two teams actually scrummaged the Lions were far superior. But the Aussies were canny pushing early and not binding on engagement making it hard for the Lions to get a scrum together. The pens against Vunipola were more about his inexperience than lack of ability.

So if he is that green, why was he on the pitch?

No its the fact that all the Scots have come together to have a whinge and as the majority has left you to it, it has lead to delusion and calling players useless when they played well. Unfortunately most of the Scots have posted like numbskulls.

I thought vunipola played well today, but given he was looking pretty tired in the last twenty, figure the reason he stayed on was Gatland being bloody minded. There were a fair number saying Grant should have been selected, therefore bringing him on would 1) only have aided the critics if Grant had demonstrated improvement in the scrum and 2) meant he wouldn't have been able to say 'i told you so' had they managed to win.

I'm not angry at Vinapola. I can't criticize someone who worked so hard they were nearly blacking out.

my ranting is aimed at Gatland who kept him on. He also stubbornly kept him on when our scrum was getting hammered

InjuredYetAgain wrote:Rory - I was petty enough to keep an eye on Vunipola and he spent most of the second half walking about.

Well strangely he made more tackles and beat more defenders than anyone and made a large amount of turnovers just by walking about. Interesting.

The thing is I do actually 100% agree that a prop is primarily there for his scrummaging ability, but like I said Gatland picked him knowing that he wasn't the strongest scrummaging loosehead, and he did what he was chosen for.

Oh, I'm very sorry for bringing different viewpoints to this site, MBC.
If I had known that everyone had to agree (with you in particular) I would have stayed away

Thought it was going to be a nightmare ala 09 but fair dues.... He stuck to it and got the ascendancy by the end.... The only front rower who wasn't changed... That tells us alone how well he came back.

Corbisiero is hopefully back though.

He's 22.... What he has done is remarkable. Adam jones for the first 10 years of his pro career was seen as a bit of a joke.... Now he's the cornerstone of Wales and the lions.

InjuredYetAgain wrote:Oh, I'm very sorry for bringing different viewpoints to this site, MBC.
If I had known that everyone had to agree (with you in particular) I would have stayed away

Don't worry he comes from the boxing part of the forum. They aren't very smart over there. They still think Matthew Macklin fights for Britian, bless them.

InjuredYetAgain wrote:

Manu's Boxing Coach wrote:When the two teams actually scrummaged the Lions were far superior. But the Aussies were canny pushing early and not binding on engagement making it hard for the Lions to get a scrum together. The pens against Vunipola were more about his inexperience than lack of ability.

So if he is that green, why was he on the pitch?

Because he has other attributes like his loose play and is also a competent scrummager. Also I think the Aussies do this regularly how do you think they are the 3rd best side in the world yet everyone says they have a powder puff front row? They find ways round it make the scrum messy and con the ref into a few penalties. And I am not sure Grant would have made a large amount of difference in that situation. However he should have came on as a sub with 20 to go as Vunipola was knackered.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

InjuredYetAgain wrote:Oh, I'm very sorry for bringing different viewpoints to this site, MBC.
If I had known that everyone had to agree (with you in particular) I would have stayed away

Don't worry he comes from the boxing part of the forum. They aren't very smart over there. They still think Matthew Macklin fights for Britian, bless them.

I'm not. Get your facts right.