Did Gatland anticipate the ful ramifications of dropping BOD?

First topic message reminder :

It was always going to be a huge decision given BODs stature in the game but even Im a little shocked at the scale of the outcry. There are messages all over the place from Irish withdrawing their support for the Lions, even sportsmen and figures outside of rugby are getting in on it. Socia media sites are awash with it. I get the feeling even if the Lions win the series Gatand has committed an unforgiveable sin. And if they lose! Heaven help us. Theirs big decisions and then there is asking for trouble! Im not sure Gatland realised the scale of this decision. Even opting for BOD on the bench and a late cameo might have taken the sting out it but hes really setting himself up for a fall here!

SecretFly wrote:Come on Saint, you love the caustic 'banter' from the whinging Irish.  Makes you feel all English, when they were in their prime and loved the idea that nobody loved them because they were better than everybody else and smashed other sides to pieces.

There's a good way of looking at whinging if you're smart enough.....

I've been on the page a while and there's never been much 'banter'... But, a lot of informative updates from the admin's that tended to generate a lot of discussion, some good and some bad. They post funny pics now and then but half of them are nicked from the Dai Lama. I actually sent in one of the pictures for them to post which got a funny reaction; it was Billy Vunipola back in his prime at Griffithstown Primary School, about three times the size of all the other kids.

Scrumdown wrote:O'Driscoll no longer offers the attacking threat at international level that he did about 5 years ago and therefore does not deserve a place in the team.

O'Driscoll was never the rugby genius that some fans like to portray him as. He relied on his speed off the mark to break defences.  He has lost that explosiveness and is now ineffective.

He had a similar skill set to Christian Cullen who also looked half his former self once he lost his pace.

Gatland has made the right call.

Whoa now!  "Similar skill set to Christian Cullen..."!!!  Are you serious???  Comparing BOD to one of the two greatest players (along with Lord Richard Hill, of course) of all time is downright scandalous.  Cullen was even top try scorer in the 'celtic' league after two hip replacements and a wooden foot transplant.

BOD was a freak of nature 1999-2003, world class 2003 to 2009 and has dined out on that reputation ever since.  Should never have gone on tour.  Tuilagi and JD2 are in a different league in the modern game.

The best Irish natural outside-centre over the past five seasons has been Tommy Bowe, even though everyone insists on playing him on the wing.  When he's not injured.

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:

SecretFly wrote:That's the issue.  The Lions tests so far is all talk, despite the 6N winning spine very prominent in both games.  
I'll be interested in seeing some rugby in the last game, if it's not too much trouble, from Gatland and his coaches.

Well this is the problem,Australia are far better than the English media made out pre tour, so now you have all the armchair boys all over this calling for BOD,Wilkinson or Sheridan.
I think the English media should give respect where due just like im happy to! the Welsh are the best players at the moment.
I think the English medias concern should be why hasn't the worlds largest playing pool come up with players who can get a score in a test match let alone half the representation from England being overseas boys.
We need to get our head out of the sand ,drop the spiteful jibes to other nations players and coaches and take care of our own house first.

What is this about England, this is the LIONS you idiot, the British and Irish Lions. The media over here is largely Australian/Now American controlled, not English. The BBC - British Broadcasting Company when it comes to rugby union is so Welsh biased that you would think that the side of the 70's were still playing. You won the 6N by the skin of your teeth, you are not the dominant force you think you are.

We have our national biases, but the Welsh seem to believe they are GODS. the Welsh have some of the better players, not all of the better players, you won the 6N on points difference.

Gatland has made some strange calls, and whenever they are made they involve more Welsh players. time will tell if he was right, but if it goes as most seem to think on Saturday, his reputation and ability to manage an international side will be questioned and quite rightly. Especially when looking at the way the English, Irish and Scots have beaten SH opposition when Wales have failed consistently. He does not seem to want to learn from others experience, especially where they have performed better than him.

Casartelli wrote:

Scrumdown wrote:O'Driscoll no longer offers the attacking threat at international level that he did about 5 years ago and therefore does not deserve a place in the team.

O'Driscoll was never the rugby genius that some fans like to portray him as. He relied on his speed off the mark to break defences.  He has lost that explosiveness and is now ineffective.

He had a similar skill set to Christian Cullen who also looked half his former self once he lost his pace.

Gatland has made the right call.

Whoa now!  "Similar skill set to Christian Cullen..."!!!  Are you serious???  Comparing BOD to one of the two greatest players (along with Lord Richard Hill, of course) of all time is downright scandalous.  Cullen was even top try scorer in the 'celtic' league after two hip replacements and a wooden foot transplant.

BOD was a freak of nature 1999-2003, world class 2003 to 2009 and has dined out on that reputation ever since.  Should never have gone on tour.  Tuilagi and JD2 are in a different league in the modern game.

The best Irish natural outside-centre over the past five seasons has been Tommy Bowe, even though everyone insists on playing him on the wing.  When he's not injured.

In what way? Seems to me like you are implying they are better simply because they are bigger.

Also, Bowe is a winger, so how can he be a "natural" outside centre? If he makes the switch and plays well then great, we have options there, but he has been primarily a winger all his career.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Casartelli wrote:

Scrumdown wrote:O'Driscoll no longer offers the attacking threat at international level that he did about 5 years ago and therefore does not deserve a place in the team.

O'Driscoll was never the rugby genius that some fans like to portray him as. He relied on his speed off the mark to break defences.  He has lost that explosiveness and is now ineffective.

He had a similar skill set to Christian Cullen who also looked half his former self once he lost his pace.

Gatland has made the right call.

Whoa now!  "Similar skill set to Christian Cullen..."!!!  Are you serious???  Comparing BOD to one of the two greatest players (along with Lord Richard Hill, of course) of all time is downright scandalous.  Cullen was even top try scorer in the 'celtic' league after two hip replacements and a wooden foot transplant.

BOD was a freak of nature 1999-2003, world class 2003 to 2009 and has dined out on that reputation ever since.  Should never have gone on tour.  Tuilagi and JD2 are in a different league in the modern game.

The best Irish natural outside-centre over the past five seasons has been Tommy Bowe, even though everyone insists on playing him on the wing.  When he's not injured.

In what way?  Seems to me like you are implying they are better simply because they are bigger.

Also, Bowe is a winger, so how can he be a "natural" outside centre?  If he makes the switch and plays well then great, we have options there, but he has been primarily a winger all his career.

Tuilagi and Davies are fast (over short distances at least) as well as 'bigger'. The game moves on and waits for nobody, not even 'legends'. You can't mark athletes in the opposing backline when your legs went AWOL four seasons ago, I don't care how much experience you have or how many caps you've won.

How many tackles has BOD missed this tour?

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:How many tackles has BOD missed this tour?

You have to get near people to miss tackles.

Casartelli wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Casartelli wrote:

Scrumdown wrote:O'Driscoll no longer offers the attacking threat at international level that he did about 5 years ago and therefore does not deserve a place in the team.

O'Driscoll was never the rugby genius that some fans like to portray him as. He relied on his speed off the mark to break defences.  He has lost that explosiveness and is now ineffective.

He had a similar skill set to Christian Cullen who also looked half his former self once he lost his pace.

Gatland has made the right call.

Whoa now!  "Similar skill set to Christian Cullen..."!!!  Are you serious???  Comparing BOD to one of the two greatest players (along with Lord Richard Hill, of course) of all time is downright scandalous.  Cullen was even top try scorer in the 'celtic' league after two hip replacements and a wooden foot transplant.

BOD was a freak of nature 1999-2003, world class 2003 to 2009 and has dined out on that reputation ever since.  Should never have gone on tour.  Tuilagi and JD2 are in a different league in the modern game.

The best Irish natural outside-centre over the past five seasons has been Tommy Bowe, even though everyone insists on playing him on the wing.  When he's not injured.

In what way?  Seems to me like you are implying they are better simply because they are bigger.

Also, Bowe is a winger, so how can he be a "natural" outside centre?  If he makes the switch and plays well then great, we have options there, but he has been primarily a winger all his career.

Tuilagi and Davies are fast (over short distances at least) as well as 'bigger'.  The game moves on and waits for nobody, not even 'legends'.  You can't mark athletes in the opposing backline when your legs went AWOL four seasons ago, I don't care how much experience you have or how many caps you've won.

Yet, if you have watched the tour (or any rugby for the past few seasons) an ageing O'Driscoll with all his experience is still the much better defender? What does that say about Tuilagi and Davies if O'Driscoll's legs apparently went AWOL 4 years ago? In attack he is still the smarter player, also still very quick footed. Obviously his pace is waning though. I would say on his own he isn't as much of a threat as Tuilagi or Davies, but his distribution and awareness for the players around him is remarkably better.

So basically you believe Tuilagi and Davies are the better players because they are bigger and faster? Sounds like the welsh game plan, very one dimensional indeed. There is a lot more to rugby than physical attributes.

Casartelli wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:How many tackles has BOD missed this tour?

You have to get near people to miss tackles.

It is a good thing his positional awareness is world class then, isn't it?

Wise up Casartelli, he has been one of the Lions top tacklers, you clearly have not watched him play at all recently. Also Bowe is a winger not a centre never has been a centre do you really think you are smarter than every single coach he has ever played under.

"Re: Did Gatland anticipate the ful ramifications of dropping BOD?"

No. He didnt expect half the rugby world to act like children.

Get over it people. This is unbelievably more embarrassing by the day.

neilthom7 wrote:Wise up Casartelli, he has been one of the Lions top tacklers, you clearly have not watched him play at all recently. Also Bowe is a winger not a centre never has been a centre do you really think you are smarter than every single coach he has ever played under.

Well, Gats has finally 'wised up' to the whole reputation over ability thing and has come round to my way of thinking.  I stake my reputation on it, like Gats is doing.

Actually I don't, because it won't make any difference as we're so underpowered up front.  Should've taken Sheridan.  The Aussies are terrified of him for some reason.

Well as I said before Saturday will prove if it was the right decision it will either leave Gatland right or destroy his reputation in my eyes forever.

Taylorman wrote:"Re: Did Gatland anticipate the ful ramifications of dropping BOD?"

No. He didnt expect half the rugby world to act like children.

Get over it people. This is unbelievably more embarrassing by the day.

Although many are going WAY over the top, can we not reasonably debate the decision?

neilthom7 wrote:Well as I said before Saturday will prove if it was the right decision it will either leave Gatland right or destroy his reputation in my eyes forever.

Think it's more about who wins a test match rather than the 'reputation' of one individual player, to be honest, but Saturday will certainly be interesting, if nothing else.

Taylorman wrote:"Re: Did Gatland anticipate the ful ramifications of dropping BOD?"

No. He didnt expect half the rugby world to act like children.

Get over it people. This is unbelievably more embarrassing by the day.

It's fun, Taylorman. Get involved. Buy a teeshirt, light a BBBOD candle. You seem to be reading a lot of the childish nonsense by the way?

I'll see you at the candlelight vigil tommorrow then Secret and also we should be thanking Gatland, it took this to bring all of Ireland together

Holy cow, boys and girls, this keeps getting bigger......
Just heard some news. The local US Independence Day fireworks celebrations here in northern New Jersey are being delayed by a minute of 'BOD silence' first.  Even people here who do not know Rugby, have heard of BOD.  Saw fresh grafitti exclaiming how can that fat basteraud bench BOD?  

If this keep growing, we could have the people power to overthrow the government of a mid-sized country.......

Somewhere warm with women and beaches and surf....................................

em....OZ!!!!!!!!!!

doctor_grey wrote:Holy cow, boys and girls, this keeps getting bigger......
Just heard some news.  The local US Independence Day fireworks celebrations here in northern New Jersey are being delayed by a minute of 'BOD silence' first.  Even people here who do not know Rugby, have heard of BOD.  Saw fresh grafitti exclaiming how can that fat basteraud bench BOD?  

If this keep growing, we could have the people power to overthrow the government of a mid-sized country.......

 Are you being deliberately provocative????

Again?????

 
Somewhere warm with women and beaches and surf....................................

Porthcawl

 

RubyGuby wrote: 
Somewhere warm with women and beaches and surf....................................

Porthcawl

neilthom7 wrote:I'll see you at the candlelight vigil tommorrow then Secret and also we should be thanking Gatland, it took this to bring all of Ireland together

Ireland North and South (and Limerick) should nominate him for the Nobel Peace Prize. That's just a joke but................... hmmm, what forms do you need to nominate??

MrsP wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Holy cow, boys and girls, this keeps getting bigger......
Just heard some news.  The local US Independence Day fireworks celebrations here in northern New Jersey are being delayed by a minute of 'BOD silence' first.  Even people here who do not know Rugby, have heard of BOD.  Saw fresh grafitti exclaiming how can that fat basteraud bench BOD?  

If this keep growing, we could have the people power to overthrow the government of a mid-sized country.......

 Are you being deliberately provocative????

Again?????

I must have been in the sun too long. Just got that. Not too bad.................

Well, when I am head coach of the Lions in 2017, we did agree on that didn't we?

Anyway, when I am head coach of the next Lions tour there is NO WAY I' picking you now!

Well, actually, I might pick you for all the little games and make it look like I'm going to pick you for the tests and then, right at the last moment I will pull the rug from under you!

That'll larne ye!

34 Ulstermen and Earls then for 2017. Yeah, I can see that working if Earls is 12.

SecretFly wrote:34 Ulstermen and Earls then for 2017.  Yeah, I can see that working if Earls is 12.

Oh NOOoooooooooo!

Now you've really done it Secret!!!!

Oh Mrs P...are you deciding to pick on poor little Keith now that your Outrage over Bests non inclusion was abated. But then was lost on a sea of Rory's ineptitude..

who next i wonder

I guess I was wrong Secret about the whole of ireland coming together lol

ME-109 wrote:Oh Mrs P...are you deciding to pick on poor little Keith now that your Outrage over Bests non inclusion was abated. But then was lost on a sea of Rory's ineptitude..

who next i wonder

 Oh no! You have me all wrong on the Earls thing.

My only concern is that the very hint of a discussion on the subject inevitably leads to 48 pages of tripe from certain quarters.

I'm not sure any of us could handle that just now.

SecretFly wrote:

Taylorman wrote:"Re: Did Gatland anticipate the ful ramifications of dropping BOD?"

No. He didnt expect half the rugby world to act like children.

Get over it people. This is unbelievably more embarrassing by the day.

It's fun, Taylorman.  Get involved.  Buy a teeshirt, light a BBBOD candle.    You seem to be reading a lot of the childish nonsense by the way?

Naah its boring...and its going to either be filled with a heap of I told you so's for a good month afterwards when the selection or not of BOD for the match is completely irrelevant, or 'With BOD we would have won by more' and Gatland got lucky so its entirely predictable and for that reason I hope the Lions get absolutely smashed on the weekend...now that'll be real fun.. dont ya think?

He has spoken. Willie John McBride has said he is really disappointed by the decision to drop BOD. If Willie John says its a bad call its a bad call. Is there any need for further debate?

Taylorman wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Taylorman wrote:"Re: Did Gatland anticipate the ful ramifications of dropping BOD?"

No. He didnt expect half the rugby world to act like children.

Get over it people. This is unbelievably more embarrassing by the day.

It's fun, Taylorman.  Get involved.  Buy a teeshirt, light a BBBOD candle.    You seem to be reading a lot of the childish nonsense by the way?

Naah its boring...and its going to either be filled with a heap of I told you so's for a good month afterwards when the selection or not of BOD for the match is completely irrelevant, or 'With BOD we would have won by more' and Gatland got lucky so its entirely predictable and for that reason I hope the Lions get absolutely smashed on the weekend...now that'll be real fun.. dont ya think?

Taylorman dont lie, you always wanted the Lions to get smashed. Now you just have another reason to pout in the lead up to the match. You're loving it.

No I didnt actually...until these boards spiralled downwards into a place for blame- something that was always ultimately going to lie with Gatland. Don't even rate the guy myself but no one deserves to read this. The players havnt performed as well as even they themselves can- BOD a prime example.

Anyway, its runied the series for me...move along kitties...the real stuff is yet to start.

Taylorman wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Taylorman wrote:"Re: Did Gatland anticipate the ful ramifications of dropping BOD?"

No. He didnt expect half the rugby world to act like children.

Get over it people. This is unbelievably more embarrassing by the day.

It's fun, Taylorman.  Get involved.  Buy a teeshirt, light a BBBOD candle.    You seem to be reading a lot of the childish nonsense by the way?

Naah its boring...and its going to either be filled with a heap of I told you so's for a good month afterwards when the selection or not of BOD for the match is completely irrelevant, or 'With BOD we would have won by more' and Gatland got lucky so its entirely predictable and for that reason I hope the Lions get absolutely smashed on the weekend...now that'll be real fun.. dont ya think?

Strange breakdown between what's fun and what's boring there Taylor.  Tongue-in-cheek campaigns are 'boring' but the whinging after the game if the Lions lose will be 'fun'.  

Same class of fun to me...or boring shyte if your so disposed.  Think there is a little jealousy of how manic the rugby gets here....off the field if not on it!!  You secretly are envious of the mad passions and wild shenanigans of four too close for comfort International Nations going at it.

We get bored with staid and soberly frowning team-sheet talk up here sometimes... that's for black and white purists.

Taylorman wrote:No I didnt actually...until these boards spiralled downwards into a place for blame- something that was always ultimately going to lie with Gatland. Don't even rate the guy myself but no one deserves to read this. The players havnt performed as well as even they themselves can- BOD a prime example.

Anyway, its runied the series for me...move along kitties...the real stuff is yet to start.

Don't be so dramatic, do you really think Gatland cares what is in the press?

Neither teams players have performed well. The first test was a sham ref wise and the second test perhaps what was on the line made the Lions afraid to express themselves and go win the game. Who knows? Tactics haven't helped.

Either way the bottom line is very few players have shone, Drico included yet he hasn't stunk less than anyone else nor done much to get dropped either whereas Davies arguably has.

Add that to the fact that the guy Gatland has appointed captain has only ever captained his country once before makes the whole thing a little more puzzling.

I am actually quite dumb!  Maybe naive in that Gatland's Nationality means nothing to me.  But I'm only after realising that might be it, Taylor?  We're insulting, criticising a Kiwi?

I genuinely never considered that might be some of it?  Well, if it is, I don't think you should take it too personally - we kinda just regard him as a normal NH coach now.  He's part of the furniture.  It has nothing to do with his Nationality.  Poor spent and sad has-been BOD is going to be coached by one of the better ones up here for his last year.  So I wouldn't take anyhting to mean it's a stab at Gatland's Nationality

Oh but this has caused one hell of a storm!!

From the start I will say that I agree with Gatland’s selection for the 13 shirt.

Professional rugby and a Lions tour especially is no place for sentiment. The coach should pick the players he believes will do the best job regardless of stature, history or anything else.

A fit Jamie Roberts was always (rightly so) going to get the 12 jersey. Someone had to make way and it was a case of who would be the better partner for him. Personally I feel it was a 50-50 call. O’Driscoll is still top quality, not the player of 5 years ago we all know that, but quality none the less. His defensive work is well publicised but he has had little impact in the first 2 tests. Saying that, Davies hasn’t exactly excelled in the 2 tests either so in my mind is lucky to have been retained.

The Roberts / Davies partnership is one that works- they have proved that over the past few years. They understand each others games and seem to be better players for it. Gatland knows the potential and what they can do.

I think the importance of the decision is being overstated. The game on Saturday, like the first 2 tests will be won up front. Whoever wins the set piece battle along with the breakdown will come out on top. Baring an individual mistake i can’t see either midfield getting on top to the extent that the game will be decided by it.

On a side note, Hibbard and Faletau can consider themselves to be lucky boys- in my mind Youngs and Heaslip have every right to feel aggrieved.

To any Irish posters who are waining with their support due to selection- grow up.

Gatland does not hate the Irish fans
Gatland is not getting back at the IRFU
Gatland is not dropping the greatest player in the world

Gatland has made a judgement call based on winning a single test match. Yes, BOD will not get the lovely send off into the Lions sunset which would have been great to see. Suck it up, the shirt is about much more than 1 player, regardless of how good he has been over the years and how much is has given.

Get behind the team!!

Let me summarise for you, Trust.

"F**k you, you Irish whingers. Please support the Lions. Thankyou"

Yeah, I'll certainly give the proposal a think....................

I wouldn’t quite put it like that!

Disappointment was to be expected but this is a total overreaction. BOD is viewed by many as immortal due to what he has given to the sport and Irish rugby in particular.

I feel this is clouding the judgement of many as to the fact that it was a marginal call by a coach in favour of a partnership that has served him very well in recent times.

It’s a tough pill to swallow but we have a coach here who is not giving way to sentiment.

This is take on it but obviously all will not agree

Well said InBODWeTrust.

It's completely understandable why BOD being dropped has caused a stir since he's a legend and was the obvious captain after the injuries to Sam and POC. But there's been some slightly irrational stuff posted on here and also by journalists and other ex-Lions legends like McBride and Wood.

Some questions:

1) Is Roberts the obvious selection at 12 after return from injury?
2) is it fair to compare JD2 and BOD (both mixed) performances in the first 2 tests without acknowledging that JD2 was the one playing out of favoured position?
3) Have Roberts and Davies not formed a highly effective partnership for Wales in the last 3 years?
4) Is BOD anything like the player he was a few years ago? Is he really NOW a clearly superior 13 to JD2?
5) should someone's supposedly superior captaincy qualities dictate selection for the team (not getting into the fact that BOD was overlooked for Heaslip by Ireland)?
5) should be Gatland be picking a team which he considers (rightly or wrongly) has the best chance of winning on Saturday? Or should he be picking with sentiment and "lions tradition" in mind.

The last question is the one which is maybe key to some of the criticism. Some pundits and ex-players appear to be suggesting that BOD basically deserves selection because of who he is and what he represents rather than on pure rugby grounds. And because he would be he ideal captain having the ideal swansong. Why anyone thinks this is about Gatland's ego is beyond me. It was a very tough call but in the cold light of day there's surely no doubt that ALL Gatland cares about is winning on Saturday. I understand people being upset but it's hardly a ridiculous selection of Roberts and JD2. and Tuilagi is clearly more useful on the bench - impact and covering 12,13, and wing. Surely picking what he thinks will deliver a win is Gatland's remit as Lions coach (though not according to some?). And frankly some of the stuff being spouted (eg. ian Robertson and his "lucky bag") is pretty disrespectful to the very fine centres who've been picked. At least all the players involved including of course BOD are showing their class.

This point about sentiment. First let's see what the conclusion is - win or lose. That will determine whether the partnership argument works, or indeed the overall better quality of player argument works.

Then we'll deduce where the 'sentiment' started and ended. You see some might argue that 10 Welsh players is 'sentiment' aplenty and wonder when Sexton and Phillips became partners, especially given that Murray is on the bench.

You see 'sentiment' about O'Driscoll means nothing to Gatland but sentiment for his own players means a lot to him, given he'll be guiding them to a WC.

Anyway, enjoy you getting behind the team!!! day on Saturday.

Casartelli wrote:

Scrumdown wrote:O'Driscoll no longer offers the attacking threat at international level that he did about 5 years ago and therefore does not deserve a place in the team.

O'Driscoll was never the rugby genius that some fans like to portray him as. He relied on his speed off the mark to break defences.  He has lost that explosiveness and is now ineffective.

He had a similar skill set to Christian Cullen who also looked half his former self once he lost his pace.

Gatland has made the right call.

Whoa now!  "Similar skill set to Christian Cullen..."!!!  Are you serious???  Comparing BOD to one of the two greatest players (along with Lord Richard Hill, of course) of all time is downright scandalous.  Cullen was even top try scorer in the 'celtic' league after two hip replacements and a wooden foot transplant.

BOD was a freak of nature 1999-2003, world class 2003 to 2009 and has dined out on that reputation ever since.  Should never have gone on tour.  Tuilagi and JD2 are in a different league in the modern game.

The best Irish natural outside-centre over the past five seasons has been Tommy Bowe, even though everyone insists on playing him on the wing.  When he's not injured.

Wow I've read some Love sacks here over the years that that my friend is right up there. Congratulations

Just to throw it out there, the partnership may work very well on Saturday, Davies have a stormer and the Lions still lose- that is when this argument will potentially become a total farce!

As I said above, I think Gatland’s selections in the pack are not perfect at all. In reality these are the calls that will decide the test match but the media will not be interested in that. If the Lions are beat due to a misfiring set piece the headline will still be “would BOD have won it for us?”

Secretfly I understand what you are saying and there's no doubt that Gatland as a coach will go with players he knows and combinations he trusts. Most obviously Lydiate and Phillips on this tour, I'd say. But I don't think that's sentiment. I would guess it's more a kind of control freakery - he goes with what he knows, players who fit his mould and will perform to his game plan.  if he was still Wasps coach when he coached the Lions he'd probably pick a disproportionate bunch of Wasps players (Worsely etc) rather than other options but it wouldn't be because of sentiment, it's because of he'd trust them to deliver his game plan. I'm not saying I'm all in favour of this by the way and it's what's led to welsh talent like Peel and hook being discarded.  But I do believed he's selecting on rugby grounds (whether you like it all or not - probably not!) rather than sentiment.

neilthom7 wrote:Well as I said before Saturday will prove if it was the right decision it will either leave Gatland right or destroy his reputation in my eyes forever.

I imagine you're saying what a lot of people are thinking and it's as predictable as it is illogical. How can it possibly be a given that the Lions would win the third Test with BOD in the side?

Taylorman wrote:No I didnt actually...until these boards spiralled downwards into a place for blame- something that was always ultimately going to lie with Gatland. Don't even rate the guy myself but no one deserves to read this. The players havnt performed as well as even they themselves can- BOD a prime example.

Anyway, its runied the series for me...move along kitties...the real stuff is yet to start.

Yeah SH Rugby-basketball is about to start. Little room for the rules, they get ignored for more 'exciting' crap.

The BOD issue is a sideshow. The question that will be answered tomorrow is whether Gatland's Gatball is a good enough package for a Lions series victory in Australia. Or , to put it another away, how good is Mr. G. really as a coach?

Is he a great tactician? Or did he just happen to be in the right place when the best group of players Wales have had in 30 years came together?

samuraidragon wrote:The BOD issue is a sideshow. The question that will be answered tomorrow is whether Gatland's Gatball is a good enough package for a Lions series victory in Australia. Or , to put it another away, how good is Mr. G. really as a coach?

Is he a great tactician? Or did he just happen to be in the right place when the best group of players Wales  have had in 30 years came together?

............OR.......was the real Welsh coach left at home?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:Well as I said before Saturday will prove if it was the right decision it will either leave Gatland right or destroy his reputation in my eyes forever.

I imagine you're saying what a lot of people are thinking and it's as predictable as it is illogical. How can it possibly be a given that the Lions would win the third Test with BOD in the side?

Gatland says it was impossible to win it with BOD in the side.  Rugby decision not a political decision, he said.  BOD is only a poilitical choice had he played. Nice chat from a Lions coach.