Performances that get to much credit

As the opposite off trussmans thread what performances do you think fighters get to much credit for!

Pacman vs morales 2 and 3
Calzaghe vs rjj
Rjj vs Trinidad

I wasn't aware Calzaghe gets any credit for Jones, I certainly don't give him any! Same with Jones and Trinidad. I'd say anyone beating Judah seems to class as a good win despite the fact everyone beats him because he just isn't very good.

PBF vs JMM

Totally agree with Judah although 10 years ago he was looking to be the next big thing! Kind of agree with jmm vs mayweather although not losing a minute of any round was suprising and impressive

Lewis vs Rahman 2. Lewis should never of even got to the point where that fight was necessary.

Martinez' victory over Williams tends to get a flat response. Dont think he gets knocked for it, but I dont think it gets its dues. Sergio single-left-handedly busted the Paul Williams myth

I don't understand why Mayweather shouldn't get credit for beating JMM? He's an elite fighter.

kingraf wrote:Martinez' victory over Williams tends to get a flat response. Dont think he gets knocked for it, but I dont think it gets its dues. Sergio single-left-handedly busted the Paul Williams myth    

A bit off topic this. Isn't it about performances that are over hyped?

Youre right mate. Somehow mistook this thread for the inverted thread Truss put up. My apologies

BlakkMamba wrote:I don't understand why Mayweather shouldn't get credit for beating JMM?  He's an elite fighter.

It was indeed a punch-perfect performance over a top level fighter. However when you dig a little deeper than that I find a number of things that leave a bad taste in my mouth.

JMM had never fought above LW at the time, not only was he a fish out of divisional water but being his first time that high he was flabby with it (compare that JMM to the one Manny fought the last time or two who was in startling shape) and then Floyd goes and disregards the weight stip which, in my eyes, massively discredits the win. I think the quality of his performance is used to gloss over these facts.

Tim Bradleys performance over Manny. The fact that he finished on his feet & was gifted one has somehow hid the fact that he got schooled for an entire fight. In fact his stock has retrospectively risen

Agree with that Kingy.

Think I gave Tim 3 rounds on the night and a 4th at a push in hindsight but the result was an, albeit ironic, disgrace.

Yeah, Bradley beating Pacquiao has propelled him up P4P lists even though he didn't win the fight in most peoples eyes. The commentary was shockingly biased towards Pacquiao, the card they presented was too wide, but in the end - Pacquiao won clearly.

Also Peterson for beating Khan, the guy was juiced and had an unfair advantage.

Any of Broners wins.

Henry Cooper v Ali.
Comprehensively outboxed for 3 rounds and 2m56s of the 4th. Lands one lucky punch then destroyed in the 5th. somehow the story now goes that brave 'Enry should have beaten Ali.

seanmichaels wrote:Henry Cooper v Ali.
Comprehensively outboxed for 3 rounds and 2m56s of the 4th. Lands one lucky punch then destroyed in the 5th. somehow the story now goes that brave 'Enry should have beaten Ali.

Yeah and all the controversy that goes with it about the ripped gloves.

Annoys me that one.

kingraf wrote:Youre right mate. Somehow mistook this  thread for the inverted thread Truss put up.  My apologies


   

And my apologies to you. Hyper critical today! I'll reel my neck back in!!

Im not sure Id agree on Bradley/Pacquiao. I think Bradley lost the fight but he performed well. There were lots of people on here saying he was made for Pacquiao and would be stopped easily. But he remained competitve in the fight all the way through.

Thinking about 90s heavyweights on another thread made me think of Lewis v Golota. I think he gets too much credit for that win. Not really any fault of Lewis but Golota wasnt all there.

Chavez got a lot of credit for beating Andy Lee for some strange reason

Garcia vs Khan, Khan has always had chin problems and was busting Garcia's face up untill the left hook in the 3rd

I was at Calzaghe v Roy Jones and even I know it was a payday fight for both men with Calzaghe knowing full well he was probably going to win easy and still get the name on his record so not sure where that one comes from

Haye gets credit for everyone he beats even though Audley and Chisora are European level. Barrett wasnt world level, Ruiz was totally past it and Valuev is probably the worst heavyweight champion ever. No doubt people will be praising him after he beats Fury in yet another easy payday

Garcia was a massive underdog before the fight it was a great win

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:Chavez got a lot of credit for beating Andy Lee for some strange reason

Garcia vs Khan, Khan has always had chin problems and was busting Garcia's face up untill the left hook in the 3rd

Garcia deserves plenty of credit for his win over Khan. Yes Khan won the first two rounds, but Garcia kept his cool and landed the shot he was looking for in the 3rd round. Its a 12 round fight and just because Khan won the first 2 rounds means nothing in regards to staining Garcia's win. Khan is known for being a fast starter and losing focus as a fight goes on. The fact Garcia got the gameplan into effect after about 8 minutes is pretty impressive. Most other fighters that face a fast paced fighter like Khan would be distracted and frustrated by the hand speed. Garcia just waited on that opening and BANG. I think he gets enough credit for it. It is the same for Marquez's win over Pacquiao. Only difference is it took him nearly 6 rounds to land the shot he wanted. If they lose a few rounds so what. The point is they both had a plan and 12 rounds to carry it out.

One of very little disagreements I have with you WHU!!  

Steffan wrote:I was at Calzaghe v Roy Jones and even I know it was a payday fight for both men with Calzaghe knowing full well he was probably going to win easy and still get the name on his record so not sure where that one comes from

Haye gets credit for everyone he beats even though Audley and Chisora are European level. Barrett wasnt world level, Ruiz was totally past it and Valuev is probably the worst heavyweight champion ever. No doubt people will be praising him after he beats Fury in yet another easy payday

I think Haye deserves credit for how he finished Chisora. Dont think I have ever seen him so much as rocked. And Haye's finish when watched in slow motion was a thing of beauty!! ha

Collins beating Eubank I think in the second fight. Eubank just needed to throw a punch to end the fight and couldn't for obvious reasons.

seanmichaels wrote:Collins beating Eubank I think in the second fight. Eubank just needed to throw a punch to end the fight and couldn't for obvious reasons.

Collins beating Benn and Eubank both times. All of those wins recieve far too much credit. Poor Steve has bought into it so much he believes Roy Jones ducked him!

I always thought Collin's was seen as the poor relation to Eubank and Benn.

I think more than anything Collins showed Eubank up as not being as special as the hype said he was. Collins had a serious engine and was hard as nails but in terms of skills he was fairly limited.

In my experience also Collins more often than not doesnt get a great deal of credit for beating Eubank and Benn. Its commonpace to see he beat "shot" Eubank and Benn and came along at the right time. I think Benn was pretty past it but Eubank had been performing as he had been for ages. I think Collins is probably overcredited for being a mind games genius and tactical masterstroke in beating Eubank. Eubank plays up to this notion himself. He wasnt really beat, he was "outfoxed". To my eyes Collins just beat Eubank by outworking and outhustling him in the fashion he normally fought. It had been coming for a while with Eubank after a few get out of jail fights prior to this.

throw one in the mix that may stir a few feathers

calzaghe v lacy

hyped up fighter who turned out to be rubbish really, then people say calzaghe's beat down robbed him all of his talent. im not having it he was just over hyped and not that good in the first place

He also tore his rotator cuff - same thing happened to Helenius and he's looked rubbish ever since.

Before the fight to be fair he did seem as though he was a bit of a destroyer compelling to be fair, in hindsight granted he wasn't quite what most people thought, however it was a genuine 50/50 at the time and many thought Joe was gonna get sparked as it was the first time he was seemingly stepping his opposition up.

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:Chavez got a lot of credit for beating Andy Lee for some strange reason

Garcia vs Khan, Khan has always had chin problems and was busting Garcia's face up untill the left hook in the 3rd

Garcia deserves plenty of credit for his win over Khan. Yes Khan won the first two rounds, but Garcia kept his cool and landed the shot he was looking for in the 3rd round. Its a 12 round fight and just because Khan won the first 2 rounds means nothing in regards to staining Garcia's win. Khan is known for being a fast starter and losing focus as a fight goes on. The fact Garcia got the gameplan into effect after about 8 minutes is pretty impressive. Most other fighters that face a fast paced fighter like Khan would be distracted and frustrated by the hand speed. Garcia just waited on that opening and BANG. I think he gets enough credit for it. It is the same for Marquez's win over Pacquiao. Only difference is it took him nearly 6 rounds to land the shot he wanted. If they lose a few rounds so what. The point is they both had a plan and 12 rounds to carry it out.

One of very little disagreements I have with you WHU!!  

But Khan isn't pacquiao

I do think its a good win but nothing great in retrospect. I've just never rated Khan and any puncher has a chance against him

People go on about how Garcia was looking for that punch, err doesn't every puncher look for a certain shot. He landed one good solid left hook in 3 rounds, that not very impressive

One win then he goes up to everyone's top LWW, you'd think he'd beaten someone of the calibre of Mayweather not Khan

Alot of Lennox Lewis wins are overrated I think. I never thought he was a good as people said and alot of his reputation was based on beating fighters when they were past it like Tyson and Holyfield.

At the time wasn't Khan generally seen as the top man at the 140lb division though?

Remember after Judah peolpe thought Khan was geuinely gettign ready to make that step up to be taking on the likes of Floyd in a couple more fights, after the Peterson debacle most still ranked him the top man at 140 after it came out that Peterson had been takign steroids in the eyes of most fans (Not the IBF however) Khan was still the main man at 140. Generally by beating the main man at the weight, you become the main man at the weight right?

AlexHuckerby wrote:At the time wasn't Khan generally seen as the top man at the 140lb division though?

Remember after Judah peolpe thought Khan was geuinely gettign ready to make that step up to be taking on the likes of Floyd in a couple more fights, after the Peterson debacle most still ranked him the top man at 140 after it came out that Peterson had been takign steroids in the eyes of most fans (Not the IBF however) Khan was still the main man at 140. Generally by beating the main man at the weight, you become the main man at the weight right?

Khan was 100% the man at the weight and the Garcia fight in which I'm sure he was a 6-1 underdog wasn't given a chance as it was meant to be a easy fight before stepping up to fight mayweather... Oh how that has changed everything

winchester wrote:Alot of Lennox Lewis wins are overrated I think. I never thought he was a good as people said and alot of his reputation was based on beating fighters when they were past it like Tyson and Holyfield.

And yet you get a hard-on about Fury's wins over Marty Rogan et al? Clown. No current HW fighter outside of the K's would be fit to carry Lennox's jockstrap.

As someone has mentioned Calzaghe v Lacy, I thought that I'd mention one that bothers me a little, Calzaghe v Hopkins.

I know Hopkins is still going strong in his late 40's but I thought he was old when he fought Calzaghe. Yes, if the opponent has a low boxing IQ and average skills then Hopkins will find a way to beat them but for me, he's been past his best for years and Calzaghe winning a split decision over a then 43 year old wasn't quite the big deal that it has been made out to be.

Wow, what a thread, pretty much all of JC's headline wins taking a bashing.

At least he's still got Kessler......

I rate Kessler as Calzaghe's best win.

i too have kessler as calzaghes best win, hopkins i still have as a good win though even though i gave it to hopkins by one round at the time (i was drunk, it was late and no there's not a chance your getting me to watch that fight again!!)

my main gripe with hopkins fight is it could have happened earlier, while hopkins showed he's still got it there cant be many who think hopkins was anywhere near his prime when they fought

compelling and rich wrote:i too have kessler as calzaghes best win, hopkins i still have as a good win though even though i gave it to hopkins by one round at the time (i was drunk, it was late and no there's not a chance your getting me to watch that fight again!!)

my main gripe with hopkins fight is it could have happened earlier, while hopkins showed he's still got it there cant be many who think hopkins was anywhere near his prime when they fought

2002, and on the call was myself, Don King who was in the room, Frank Warren and Bernard Hopkins' lawyer, Arnold Joseph. Along with Arnold was a woman named Linda Carter, who was there on behalf of Bernard. We asked Arnold if Bernard wanted to fight Joe Calzaghe and we asked him how much money would he want if he did. The response we got was $3million and the fight would have to take place in the United States. After a little scratching of the head, we said 'Okay, done.' Frank Warren agreed on the spot, Don King agreed and we agreed so as far as we were concerned all parties were singing off the one hymm sheet. Arnold excused himself with Linda and I can only assume it was to call Bernard. Either that day or the next day, they came with a new demand: $6million, double the sum that had been agreed, the deal blew up.....he had then and still has no desire to fight Joe Calzaghe, that much is pretty clear.

Joe gets criticised sometimes for not having fought the big-name Americans, but in this case the fault has never rested with him."

- Jay Larkin, then Showtime TV Network's Senior Vice-President of Sports and Event Programming.

Personally I thought that Hopkins won the fight, rubbish as Hopkins made it. He really nullified nearly all of Calzaghes work at the age of 43.

TopHat24/7 wrote:Wow,  what a thread, pretty much all of JC's headline wins taking a bashing.

At least he's still got Kessler......

May as well change this thread to 'Everybody Joe Calzaghe fought was rubbish or over the hill discussion'

Calzaghe vs Lacy was a great win. A master class. I think Calzaghe's win over Manfredo is over rated. Everyone agrees it was pants and i still maintain that is rating it too highly

Steffan wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Wow,  what a thread, pretty much all of JC's headline wins taking a bashing.

At least he's still got Kessler......

May as well change this thread to 'Everybody Joe Calzaghe fought was rubbish or over the hill discussion'

Pretty close to the truth.

AlexHuckerby wrote:

Steffan wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Wow,  what a thread, pretty much all of JC's headline wins taking a bashing.

At least he's still got Kessler......

May as well change this thread to 'Everybody Joe Calzaghe fought was rubbish or over the hill discussion'

Pretty close to the truth.

Who out of his top 10 wins was rubbish?

I was going to bring up JC, but thats been done to death

I'll say
Pac-Margarito
Mayweather-OdLH - very good win, but it was a split D 7-5 win vs a guy who would laboured past Jobs, and then got blown away by Pac. Not quite career-defining

AlexHuckerby wrote:Personally I thought that Hopkins won the fight, rubbish as Hopkins made it. He really nullified nearly all of Calzaghes work at the age of 43.

Totally agree with you Alex I thought Hopkins won as well (albeit he was allowed to get away with everything), however if you believe Joe won then you have to rate it as a very good win, considering what Hopkins has gone on to achieve since!

kingraf wrote:I was going to bring up JC, but thats been done to death

 

Never something we have tended to let bother us in the past.

Pacquiao vs De La Hoya!!!! Was the worst ever. Got loads of credit for that fight and probably still does. Was a joke fight.

marg vs cotto was bad for obvious reasons.

Steffan wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:

Steffan wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Wow,  what a thread, pretty much all of JC's headline wins taking a bashing.

At least he's still got Kessler......

May as well change this thread to 'Everybody Joe Calzaghe fought was rubbish or over the hill discussion'

Pretty close to the truth.

Who out of his top 10 wins was rubbish?

Roy Jones was completely done at the time.
Hopkins was past his best and in my view still beat him.
Lacy was pretty average it turned out.
Manfredo Jr was just an absolute legend.
Veit was pants.
Pudwill?
Eubank was well past it.
Can't think of more names off the top of my head. Very ordinary fighters forgettable fighters to be honest.