Toulon vs. Lions

And now for something a little different, comparing the Heineken Cup winners to the Lions.  
My point is the talent levels at the better clubs are close to or equivalent to some national teams.  Clubs like Toulon are almost Lions-like or Barbarian-like in quality and composition.  
Seems to me the Toulon pack is as good as the Lions and their backs are pretty close.  I had never thought to lay it out this way before.  

Given that Toulon practise together almost every day, all season, and don't carry the weight of our part of the world on their shoulders, would they have a shot to win or even be favourites?

Just an exercise, mates.

TOULON (from HEC Final)................... LIONS (for Saturday)
Delon Armitage.............15 FB............. Leigh Halfpenny
Rudi Wulf.....................14 W..............Tommy Bowe
Mathieu Bastareaud...... 13 C..............Jonathan Davies
Matt Giteau................. 12 C............. Jamie Roberts
Alexis Palisson.............. 11 W.............George North
Jonny Wilkinson............ 10 FH ...........Jonathan Sexton
Sebastien Tillous-Borde ...9 SH ...........Mike Phillips
Andrew Sheridan ............1 P..............Alex Corbisiero
Sebastien Bruno............. 2 H............ Richard Hibbard
Carl Hayman ..................3 P ............Adam Jones
Bakkies Botha ................4 L .............Alun-Wyn Jones
Nick Kennedy .................5 L.............Geoff Parling
Danie Rossouw............... 6 F............ Dan Lydiate
Juan Martin F. Lobbe........7 F...... ......Sean O'Brien
Chris Masoe...................8 N8.......... Toby Faletau

Jean Charles Orioli.......... 16............. Tom Youngs
Gethin Jenkins................17..............Mako Vunipola
Davit Kubriashvili........... 18..............Dan Cole
Joe van Niekerk............. 19............. Richie Gray
Steffon Armitage........... 20............. Justin Tipuric
Maxime Mermoz............. 21............. Conor Murray
Frederic Michalak ...........22 .............Owen Farrell
Jocelino Suta ................23...............Manusamoa Tuilagi

I must admit, from what I have seen of Basterau has not impressed me one oodle.

He is too slow to be a back in the first place and although he ma be able to run over few people I would love to have him play against SA.

bastareaud will probably play against SA in november BB. hopefully you will change your mind then. he has been the most underrated french player of the season so far as all his performance has been decent in both defense and in terms of making yards ball in hand. he's no flashy centre but his workrate is well above average.

as for your exercise, you would have to compare the game plans to see who might win... we know Toulon game plan all too well and I dont see how Gatland current tactics would be effective against it and penalty contest between 1/2p and Wilko is not something I would look forward too!
Toulon pack is a tad better I think, players like Botha, hayman, Masoe and ferndez Lobbe would walk into the current Lions team. the other positions are of similar quality.

Amazing, no? A club could be equal to the Lions (or almost any international team?).

 It's not amazing as Grey suggests? - Man Utd for example are far far stronger than England in football, it's inevitable. The clubs have money and a wider choice

doctor_grey wrote:Amazing, no?  A club could be equal to the Lions (or almost any international team?).

equal I dunno. competitive probably.
the difference is that Lions or International teams can call up on a fairly unlimited amount of players

BUt who has more money? Toulon or Lions? Probably close.......

 Toulon can scour the world, The Lions have Britain and Ireland and the Rugby Mercenaries of course

Toulon is obliged to play some token frenchmen whereas the Lions dont care so much about quotas  

This is why clubs sides often beat international teams - the top 4 club welsh sides beating the All Blacks more recently than Wales have, Ospreys beating Oz a couple of years back, Munster pushing the All Blacks close, etc. It's the togetherness and familiarity that makes clubs sides able to compete with and sometimes beat international teams who don't get much chance to get their timing and rhythm together. Against other international sides they're all in the same boat. But when the club side itself is full of internationals, like Toulon, then that just increases their likelihood to be able to beat an international team - they've got the togethness and familiarity of a club side with players of an international team. A receipe for carnage!

whocares wrote:Toulon is obliged to play some token frenchmen whereas the Lions dont care so much about quotas  

.

Yep, I can't remember the last time the Lions had the token frenchman in there.

Toulon are a bit like the Lions but only in the way they play the most boring rugby in the NH. Bash bash bash, penalty, kick points!!! Repeat.

GunsGerms wrote:Toulon are a bit like the Lions but only in the way they play the most boring rugby in the NH. Bash bash bash, penalty, kick points!!! Repeat.

Dude. they also win...............

doctor_grey wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Toulon are a bit like the Lions but only in the way they play the most boring rugby in the NH. Bash bash bash, penalty, kick points!!! Repeat.

Dude.  they also win...............

I think they got a little lucky in this years Hcup. Yes they beat Clermont but if you are going to play Clermont the best time to do so is the final because they get nervous as we all know. Apart from their break away try which was a bit of a freak try they didnt look like scoring whereas Clermont dominated the game for large spells.

Toulon had easily the easiest group by a long shot. Montpellier, Sale and Cardiff. Seriously!!

They had a home quarter as a result which is massive. Yes they beat Sarries in the Semis but I think Sarries was a good draw for them as they are quite similar game plan wise. Toulon being slightly bulkier.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

whocares wrote:Toulon is obliged to play some token frenchmen whereas the Lions dont care so much about quotas  

.

Yep, I can't remember the  last time the Lions had the token frenchman in there.

They do have to include a couple of scots though!  

I think Gatland had a croissant for breakfast yesterday..........

Toulon would win with Delon Armitage pointing at North as he touched down in the corner.

Jonny to get the conversion.

Gethin should be in starting on the Lions team and would be if he wasn't injured. Not the bench of Toulon.

Whats so amazing currently at ful l strength many of the Super rugby sides would equal most test sides.
Furthermore look at that Toulon[or most Top14] sides and you will see why France are currently struggling.
Yes folks I`m back ,after 2 mini strokes now fighting fit and as argumentative as ever.

 Woooooah!
The prodigy returns.
Good to see ya back Alan. Was wondering what was going on. Hope youre feeling better.

(Keep away from the Lions/ BOD/ Gatland posts because theyre bound to get yer blood boiling).

Welcome back!

emack2 wrote:Whats so amazing currently at ful l strength many of the Super rugby sides would equal most test sides.
Furthermore look at that Toulon[or most Top14] sides and you will see why France are currently struggling.
Yes folks I`m back ,after 2 mini strokes now fighting fit and as argumentative as ever.

I was wondering where you were. Hope you are ok.