Harlequins 2013/14 Season Discussion Thread

[yappysnap]

First topic message reminder :

So a few other teams had their own threads last season, it seemed to work well and seeing as it's far easier to steal someone else's idea then think up your own...

WELCOME TO THE HARLEQUINS 2013/14 SEASON DISCUSSION THREAD!

The Squad for 13/14:
Director of Rugby Conor O'Shea
Head Coach John Kingston
First Team Coach Tony Diprose
Assistant First Team Coach Mark Mapletoft
Assistant First Team Coach Collin Osborne

Hooker
Joe Gray
Rob Buchanan
Dave Ward

Loosehead Prop:
Joe Marler
Mark Lambert
Nick Mayhew
Daryl Marfo

Tighthead Prop
Paul Doran Jones
Will Collier
Kyle Sinckler  

Lock
George Robson   
Charlie Matthews
George Merrick
Sam Twomey  

Blindside
Maurie Fa'asavalu
Joe Trayfoot  

Openside
Chris Robshaw
Luke Wallace

Number 8
Nick Easter
Tom Guest
Jack Clifford

Scrum Half
Danny Care
Karl Dickson

Fly Half
Nick Evans  
Ben Botica
Louis Grimoldby

Inside Centre
Jordan Turner-Hall  
Tom Casson  
Harry Sloan

Outside Centre
George Lowe
Matt Hopper
Charlie Walker

Wing
Ugo Monye
Tom Williams
Sam Smith
Miles Mantella


Fullback
Mike Brown
Ross Chisholm
Ollie Lindsay-Hague

Fixtures:

Harlequins are pleased to confirm an exciting and challenging opening for the 2013-14 Aviva Premiership season.
 
The Londoners kick-off the new season against local rivals London Wasps at Twickenham Stadium during the London Double Header on 7th September, kick-off 4.30pm (Live on BT Sport).

2013 Aviva Premiership finalists, Northampton Saints are the visitors for the first home game at The Twickenham Stoop on Friday 13th September, kick-off 7:45pm (Live on BT Sport).

The second home game welcomes Heineken Cup semi-finalists Saracens on 28th September, kick-off 3.15pm (Live on BT Sport).

Exeter Chiefs will be the visitors to Twickenham Stadium for the sixth Big Game on Saturday 28th December. More information about Big Game 6 will be provided in coming months.

The Londoners will open their Heineken Cup campaign over the weekend of the 11th/12th/13th October, while the defence of the LV= Cup will begin during the second weekend of November. Fixture dates and times are expected by ERC and Premiership rugby later this month.

The only way to guarantee your place at all of the regular season home fixtures is by becoming a Member. Information on the innovative Membership scheme and how to become a Member is available by clicking here or by calling 0208 744 4477.

"There is no such thing as an easy match in the Aviva Premiership and there is no doubt that our opening fixtures are very demanding," said Conor O'Shea, Harlequins Director of Rugby.

"Once again we will be competing in three great competitions against top class opposition from this country and Europe. Our Premiership campaign gets underway with the London Double Header against Wasps on 7th September and is followed during that month with tough home matches with Northampton Saints and Saracens as well as a trip to Sixways to play against Dean Ryan's Worcester.

"Given the quality of the opposition, we hope that our supporters will be looking forward to returning to The Stoop to get behind their team as we set out on the marathon that is the Premiership with all its related ups and downs."

Tickets for the new season's home games will go on sale on Monday 15th July. Tickets can be purchased online or by calling 0208 410 6000
Harlequins Fixtures
Please note fixtures after Round 8 are subject to change

Round 1
Saturday September 7: London Wasps v Harlequins (4.30pm, Twickenham Stadium, BT Sport)

Round 2
Friday September 13:Harlequins v Northampton Saints (7.45pm BT Sport)

Round3
Friday September 21: Worcester Warriors v Harlequins (7.45pm BT Sport)

Round 4
Saturday September 28: Harlequins v Saracens (3.15pm BT Sport)

Round 5
Saturday October 5: London Irish v Harlequins (3.00pm)

Heineken Cup
Fri/Sat/Sun October 11/12/13 Heineken Cup

Fri/Sat/Sun October 18/19/20 Heineken Cup

Round 6
Saturday October 26: Harlequins v Sale Sharks (3.00pm)

Round 7
Saturday November 2: Leicester Tigers v Harlequins (5.30pm BT Sport)

LV= Cup
Fri/Sat/Sun November 9 LV= Cup

Fri/Sat/Sun November 16 LV= Cup

Round 8
Saturday November 23: Harlequins v Gloucester Rugby (3.00pm)

Round 9
Sunday December 1: Newcastle Falcons v Harlequins (3.00pm)

Heineken Cup
Fri/Sat/Sun Dec 6/7/8 Heineken Cup

Fri/Sat/Sun Dec 13/14/15Heineken Cup

Round 10
Saturday December 21st: Bath Rugby v Harlequins (3.00pm)

Round 11
Sat December 28: BIG GAME 6 Harlequins v Exeter Chiefs (3.00pm)

Round 12
Saturday January 4: Northampton Saints v Harlequins (3.00pm)

Heineken Cup
Fri/Sat/Sun January 10/11/12 Heineken Cup
Fri/Sat/ Sun January 17/18/19 Heineken Cup

LV= Cup
Fri/Sat/Sun Jan 24/25/26 LV= Cup
Fri/Sat/Sun Jan 31 Feb 1 /2 LV= Cup

Round 13
Saturday February 8: Harlequins v London Wasps (3.00pm)

Round 14
Saturday February 15: Harlequins v Newcastle Falcons (3.00pm)

Round 15
Saturday February 22: Gloucester Rugby v Harlequins (3.00pm)

Round 16
Saturday March 1: Harlequins v Worcester Warriors (3.00pm)

Round 17
Saturday March 22: Saracens v Harlequins (3.00pm)

Round 18
Saturday March 29: Harlequins v London Irish (3.00pm)

Round 19
Friday April 11: Sale Sharks v Harlequins (7.45pm)

Round 20
Saturday April 19: Harlequins v Leicester Tigers (3.00pm)

Round 21
Saturday May 3: Exeter Chiefs v Harlequins (3.00pm)

Round 22
Saturday May 10: Harlequins v Bath Rugby (3.00pm)

Whether you're a Quins fan or not please feel free to discuss, argue, banter and bicker below. And  to 2014's Aviva Prem Champs!!    

COYQ's!!!!

[Ozzy3213]

The only impact Botica had was getting skinned by Lewington for his try!  


You're welcome   

[yappysnap]

I don't think it's just them yappysnap you need to work upon.

You need to have more faith in the speedsters like Walker and Chisholm.

Picking an actual lock in the 2nd row would in all likelihood help too. Would improve the set piece.

Don't know why you didn't challenge London Irish for the signing of Ian Gough.

Surely Botica could be switched to centre to get both him and Evans on the pitch at the same time?

I'm sure we would back Chisholm if he wasn't out for the season. Walker I agree with though should be looked at more. But at the moment teams know to wreck the ball getting to the backs so he'd only get to attack from kicks.

We only have Robson or an academy boy at lock left fit to play so it was a calculated gamble (which worked against Wuss but shouldn't be done again. Ever). Agreed Easter really isn't a lock but in the A league we had that previously mentioned academy lock and a 6 who as far as I know has never played there partnering him at 4 so pretty much it's Easter or no one until Kennedy gets fit later this year. Again it's our own fault partially for signing a crocked player but I guess Kohn retiring a week or two before the start of the season left us little option.

I don't know why we didn't go for Gough, maybe we did but he turned us down. Perhaps it was before Kohn's retirement so we were at the cap and didn't have the funds.

Botica isn't a 12. He's a good 10 that won't make the poor try scoring situation any better as he isn't a forward or an out and out 12. And it isn't just 12 that's the problem it's the whole 12/13 combo and what we are used to versus what we have. We're used to JTH crashing up ball and sucking in defenders, our backrow or wings then run at those gaps and havoc is caused (in the simplest form). Now we have Casson who showed last season that he was a brilliant footballer, but can not crash the ball up. So we either need to reinvent the wheel or keep plugging away and figure out a combo that works.

As mentioned though the real problems start at the pack, the tight 5 are struggling to compete. They're then not being as active around the pitch and then not working hard enough at the rucks.

[yappysnap]

Sorry for the rant went off on one there...

[Trevor40]

CoS and Kingston have in idea what they're doing. COS inherited a squad Deano built and utterly clueless about taking it forward. You only have to look at the depth in certain key positions to work that one out. Monye and Williams are both smart players but are far too slow to play at the same time and until Brown learns to pass he will be average at best.
Robshaw is a better 7 than he is given credit for but the back row balance pairing him with Guest and Mo isn't working.
Until CoS changes admits his tactics are wrong the players are irrelevant though. As he is fond of pointing out, Quins "have come here to play" which makes them predictable, ineffective and easy to defend against.

[Geordie]

Just out of curiosity...for those with long memories...

When Deano joined you, was he quite secretive about things...like keeping injuries quiet, and did he move players positions..ie change a hooker to a prop etc...

He's certainly got people asking questions and quite puzzled at times up here...

[yappysnap]

Hhmmmm.

I remember him being blunt and a little confrontational in interviews...

As to secretive, I don't think so. It's difficult to remember but positionally I think it was under him that Monye got played at 13 and 15 (that might have been Kingston) and we got Clegg playing at 15 a little. Errrmm I think he moved Robson from 6 to lock as well. But that was a long time ago. Oh and of course Robshaw played a fair few seasons at 6 while Skinner played 7 under Deano as well.

As to the injuries yes I'd say it's a lot more open now with CoS, in the old days there was hardly any info. But then I don't know how much of that was Deano and how much of it now is the other new backroom guys.

[Portnoy's Complaint]

Deano was always given to saying no more than necessary. But equally I'd have put him down as one of the very last people to instigate an affair that tainted English rugby and his club.

My guess he'd never give anything away that he doesn't need to. And he won't say two words when one will do.

As a copper Deano arrested my pharmacist for D&D when a student at L Uni and gave him a dressing down and told him to bugger off.

[Trevor40]

Been saying Quins are going backwards for ages. I expect apologies from Yappysnap and the rest of the deluded Quins stooges.

[propdavid_london]

OK - so, the dust has settled a little bit. I didn't have high expectations with this H-Cup pool, having said that I thought that we would have beaten Scarlets (that was based on last seasons form).
Scarlets were a good side and Quins were poor, no real go forward and penetration.

It seems the loss of Kohn and Johston is hitting the squad harder than we thought. The Quins pack looks undersized and in-effective. We had forwards standing out in the line while backs were getting turned over at ruck time when Scarlets threw their tight 5 in!
Botica and Hopper were poor in the centers - we really need a lump to truck it up the middle to make space - none of our centres are doing this, and JTH hasn't really done that for a long time.

There isn't an alternative to playing a youngster in the 2nd row or Easter at the moment - I'm not sure that Kennedy coming back from injury is going to change the dynamic much either.
The signing of Sackey! Well, I hope we got him cheap.

Sorry all - rant over. I'm just disappointed that's all.

[SirBurger]

Neutral (well London Irish fan, so sort of neutral:D) here in peace. The thing about Quins, for me, is that they been more than the sum of their parts for the past few seasons. Evans is/was a fantastic fly half and Care, Brown and Rosbhaw are there or thereabouts when it comes to a discussion on a potential England team. However, when you look at them on paper are they really a top 4 side? And, therefore, is their current form all that surprising? Lots of sides look as good, if not better on paper. Personally, I think they slightly over-performed for a few seasons and will now re-find their natural level around mid-table. For me, it wasn't all that surprising that a Scarlets side, containing talent like Priestland, Davies, Aaron Shingler and Scott Williams beat them...

[propdavid_london]

Don't forget Lydiate was part of that Scarlets side.
I agree that Quins may have been over achieving......much the same way that Wasps did for 3-4 seasons with such a small squad.

I just feel that Quins could do with a bit more investment in the squad to be dangerous again.
Just have to get the combinations right.

[Geordie]

I thought Charlie Matthews was the big lump to replace Kohn? Has that not materialised?

[ChequeredJersey]

Well, he's injured like Kennedy and Twomey so it's hard to tell really

[Trevor40]

Quins are bottom dwellers

[Geordie]

Oh Trevor please F*$k OFF!!!!

I see CJ...i do think you lacked a bit of bulk in the pack even with Kohn and Johnson...but losing them looks to have been a big issue.

[propdavid_london]

Ideal off season signings would have been -
Luther Burrell - Like for like replacement for JTH - but better, in-form and younger.
Slater or Attwood - Lump of a 2nd row, to replace Kohn.
A decent TH? - I like the guys we have (but they aren't there yet). Apart from PDJ who hasn't kicked on. We need an experienced operator (wonder id Julian White is still doing freelance work).

[propdavid_london]

Hi Geordie,
Injuries aren't helping either! Charlie Matthews has shown real potential too.

[Trevor40]

They need a few new signings, about 40 should do it.

[ChequeredJersey]

Yeah 40 signings would be good, sure we could fit that under the cap...


Anyway, moaning incessantly, saying things that ought to have been done and blaming are all pointless activities. The options open NOW on how to improve things are limited and are what are important

[Trevor40]

We've got about 36 players so 40 shouldn't be too difficult. Get rid of the talentless journey men and has beens and start again. Only waY out this mess unless you want to see Quins continue to be relegation fodder.

[propdavid_london]

That's not particularly helpful Trevor!

[propdavid_london]

Who are you calling journey men? And how are you defining journey man?

[ChequeredJersey]

That's not particularly helpful Trevor!

Shocker. I think that's called "starting a new club". I also think the clown gimmick and our strip are not helpful, probably change those and change our name too. And play outside of London.

[Trevor40]

Journeymen - average club players at BEST
Lambert, Marler, Gray, PDJ, Robson, Robshaw, Wallace, Guest, Care, Dickson, Botica, Casson, JTH, Lowe, Hopper, Williams, Brown

Has-beens
Evans, Easter, Monye, Mo

Too young to make full judgement on
Marfo, Mayhew, Buchanan, Collier, Sinkler, Twomey, Matthews, Trayfoot, Stuart, Sloan, Clifford, OLH, Chisholm

[lostinwales]

Journeymen - average club players at BEST
Lambert, Marler, Gray, PDJ, Robson, Robshaw, Wallace, Guest, Care, Dickson, Botica, Casson, JTH, Lowe, Hopper, Williams, Brown

Has-beens
Evans, Easter, Monye, Mo

Too young to make full judgement on
Marfo, Mayhew, Buchanan, Collier, Sinkler, Twomey, Matthews, Trayfoot, Stuart, Sloan, Clifford, OLH, Chisholm

Go on then - humor us. Tell us what side is out there that actually has a couple of decent club players by that measurement? The AB's?

[Trevor40]

In the Prem - Tigers, Sarries, Saints, Bath
Rabo - I'd say Leinster and Ulster.
Any French, SA or NZ team and probably the Tahs, Reds and Brumbies.

[propdavid_london]

A journeyman is someone who has completed an apprenticeship and is fully educated in a trade or craft, but not yet a master......

Trev, that is the definition and would surely describe 85-90% of all players in the Premiership. i.e. they are able club men. You cant just write off all those players. As Lost in Wales says - what team wouldn't fit that criteria.

And, to say that the French don't have their fair share of journeymen or has been internatianials!

The Irish sides are slightly different where their central contracts allow them to focus the top international talents into a small number of sides.

[timhen]

Guys, I'm not a Quins supporter, so his comments don't provoke me as they do you, but please just ignore Trevor, he never has anything meaningful to say and if you respond to him it'll just encourage his posting.  Put him on your foes list and you simply won't have to see his childish bleats.  Certainly please don't quote him, because the only time I have to see his wittering is when you quote them.

Mods, please do something about this tiresome, pointless, wumming gnat!

[RDW]

Trevor40 - there are good ways of posting opinions, and then there are ways that cause arguments and wind ups. You’re currently doing the latter – please reconsider.

V2 mod team

[Trevor40]

My opinion (backed up by RESULTS on the pitch) are that neither the Quins coaching staff or players are good enough and havent been for a while now. If a few timid posters can't handle the TRUTH that is backed up by FACTS then perhaps they shoudnt post on an internet message board.

Im certainly not making comments about poster's mothers or their nationality like others are.

[Geordie]

The problem is your arugments are just dismissed as a wum when you include the likes of Robshaw in the lists.

Oh and what FACTS have you shown?

[Trevor40]

Robshaw is average at best. He is a terrible 7 and a poor Captain. Look back no furhter than Saturday for PROOF of that.

Our current form is relegation level - that is a FACT. 3 home loses with only 2 tries scored and 5 conceeded is awful. That is also a FACT.

[Geordie]

Ahhh BLAH BLAH BLAH...i thought the schools were all back..

[lostinwales]

The Trevor situation is starting to remind me of the Monty Python argument sketch. That and I wish he'd follow Thumper's advice...

[Trevor40]

Its not me who is resorting to childish comments.

[Trevor40]

If Quins had a DoR who knew what he was doing and a decent group of players I'd be very postive. However they don't.

[ChequeredJersey]

Journeymen - average club players at BEST
Lambert, Marler, Gray, PDJ, Robson, Robshaw, Wallace, Guest, Care, Dickson, Botica, Casson, JTH, Lowe, Hopper, Williams, Brown

Has-beens
Evans, Easter, Monye, Mo

Too young to make full judgement on
Marfo, Mayhew, Buchanan, Collier, Sinkler, Twomey, Matthews, Trayfoot, Stuart, Sloan, Clifford, OLH, Chisholm

Go on then - humor us. Tell us what side is out there that actually has a couple of decent club players by that measurement? The AB's?

 

Oh, Trev, you make me laugh, just like Mr Bean makes me laugh

[Trevor40]

If you find the TRUTH funny then I am a comedian

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Well you are certainly a clown ! 

[mbernz]

Timhen has the right idea, just ignore and block Trevor. Why do people bother wasting time pointing out the nonsense from a known WUM? It just feeds their need for attention and drags you down to their level.

[Trevor40]

What am I saying that isn't true? Or have quins been playing barnstorming rugby and I have somehow missed it under the pathetic win/loss ratio of the teAm this season?

[nth]

Timhen has the right idea, just ignore and block Trevor.  Why do people bother wasting time pointing out the nonsense from a known WUM?   It just feeds their need for attention and drags you down to their level.

+1

[johnpartle]

Timhen has the right idea, just ignore and block Trevor.  Why do people bother wasting time pointing out the nonsense from a known WUM?   It just feeds their need for attention and drags you down to their level.

+1

Quite right. Don't feed the trolls, but do give them a one-way ticket to Coventry.

[Trevor40]

Oh dear. All you can do is name call. Please tell me where I am WRONG about Quins?

ANSWER - you CAN'T!

[splenetic]

Spoiler:

[Trevor40]

CoS has clearly lost the dressing room. He's on borrowed time. Time for the clown to go.

[quinsforever]

trev mate, neither u nor anyone else knows the "truth" about a season that we are 6 games into, especially before AIs and 6Ns.

you may well be proven right, but your shrill claims now are sounding to me a bit like the "celtic unions are protecting the soul of rugby" unknowable future type stuff.

u do seem pretty knowledgeable, so what would you do if you were quins owner, apart obviously from firing COS. lets pretend you are director of rugby. what steps in terms of personnel, match tactics, and season strategy would you suggest. i am not trying to trap you, you do seem to know more about rugby than me i admit, so i would like to hear your positive views.

and no more banging the COS taxi drum hey?

[timhen]

quinsforever

he just wants attention, the more you engage him and give him what he wants the more he'll continue spamming the site.

[Trevor40]

Quins have been playing poorly for a lot more than 6 games. And how many times has that arrogant narcissist said that "quins have to come play" before a game, only to see Quins loose because they are so predictable and easy to play against?
Just look at the players at the end of the game on Saturday. Clearly had no idea what they were supposed to be doing (apart from strop like children) and Easter ignored Clueless O'Shea and walked straight off.
You lot will recognise that I am right before much longer. Even those Quins stooges Jersey and Yappysnap can find no argument in my comments because they are the TRUTH

[quinsforever]

suggestions?

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