India in Zimbabwe and India A in South Africa 2013

First topic message reminder :

There is yet some time for this series to take off, but just starting a thread well in advance. This certainly is not the most anticipated series this summer, neither is it a high profile series for that matter.
Yet there are a couple of things that make it an interesting one. Zimbabwe made a successful return to fullfledged return to international cricket in 2011, and have showed some good signes since, although the output hasn't been consistent. Unfortunately, this series does not include any test matches. But there are 5 ODIs, and the young Zimbabwe outfit would benefit from as much international exposure as possible. The other important thing is that it is India who are touring, meaning that Zc would get some much needed additional revenue.
The other thing is the Indian team itself. They have rested some senior players including skipper Mahendra Singh Dhoni and offspinner Ravichandran Ashwin. Seamers Umesh Yadav, Bhuvneshwar Kumar and Ishant Sharma are also rested. exciting youngster, J&K's offspinning all-rounder Parwez Rasool is given an opportunity. Haryana seamer Mohit Sharma has also found a place in the side. Cheteshwar Pujara is back in the ODI mix, and this time he should make his debut in all likelihood. Ajinkya Rahane is also back. Virat Kohli will be leading the side.
India squad: Virat Kohli (capt.), Shikhar Dhawan, Rohit Sharma, Dinesh Karthik, Cheteshwar Pujara, Suresh Raina, Ambati Rayudu, Ajinkya Rahane, Ravindra
Jadeja, Amit Mishra, Parvez Rasool, Shami Ahmed, R Vinay Kumar, Jaydev Unadkat, Mohit Sharma.

Not talking about yesterday as such but after a MOTS vs Eng in the last ODI series at home and an excellent IPL (he wasn't "out of form"), his form has unsurprisingly gone for a toss as soon as he's stepped outside these shores.

He averages 25.82 with only 2 fifties in nearly 60 matches outside Asia. Even considering that he bats down the order, thats a shocking record.
With the next WC in Aus/NZ, fair to say I'm not too keen on this guy. Time to look at players, who can deliver in various conditions.

Have to say I am getting frustrated with the approach of the team management. Yet again India have gone in unchanged for the 3rd ODI. Having won the toss they are bowling, and each of the 3 seamers have picked up a wicket to reduce Zimbabwe to 69-3 in the 18th over. Quickly losing interest in this series.

let's look at what the series has shown us so far...
 
1) Kohli and Dhawan are the only 2 in this side who scorew a big hundred every 5 th game and win the game.
 
2) Mishra is  a match winner and clearly the top leggie in India and one of the top 3 spinners in the country
 
3) Rayadu has mettle and may go a bit of a distance
 
4) seamers Undakat and Sami ahmed are probably OK and might veen be better than Ishant
 
5) Raina, Rohit, and DK are all 20s and 30s type......
 
6) we really need one more long inning builder in eitehr Pujara, or Rahane or Tiwary

The 6th point is particularly relevant and this series would have been an opportunity to ease Pujara into the ODI level. Rayudu had a good debut, but since then he hasn't looked at his best, the 2nd game was a particular struggle. But he did show a good temperament and clearly worth a few more chances. Unadkat and Shami did bowl alright, but didn't look particularly threatening in conditions that offered just a hint of life for the seamers, so it is hard to judge. As for Mishra, most of his wickets came through the googly which the Zimbabwe batsmen failed to pick. I doubt whether he'll have as much success with the delivery against other sides. But he seems to have cut out the mandatory no-ball an over habit at least for now, and can step in circumstances when Ashwin isn't available. But Parwez Rasool is a capable all-rounder who can bowl the conventional offy pretty well, and hopefully he'll get a couple of opportunities in the remaining matches.

As for Mishra, most of his wickets came through the googly which the Zimbabwe batsmen failed to pick. I doubt whether he'll have as much success with the delivery against other sides. But he seems to have cut out the mandatory no-ball an over habit at least for now, and can step in circumstances when Ashwin isn't available

 
msp.....you don't think much of Mishra do you ? 
 
he has been inconsistent.....but trust me at his peak he resembles Mushtaq Ahmed.
and his cause in the long run hasn't been helped by him falling out with Dhoni and being seen as Sehwag's man......in the bad days of Indian cricket when the Sehwag-Dhoni rift had peaked

msp83 wrote:The 6th point is particularly relevant and this series would have been an opportunity to ease Pujara into the ODI level. Rayudu had a good debut, but since then he hasn't looked at his best, the 2nd game was a particular struggle. But he did show a good temperament and clearly worth a few more chances. Unadkat and Shami did bowl alright, but didn't look particularly threatening in conditions that offered just a hint of life for the seamers, so it is hard to judge. As for Mishra, most of his wickets came through the googly which the Zimbabwe batsmen failed to pick. I doubt whether he'll have as much success with the delivery against other sides. But he seems to have cut out the mandatory no-ball an over habit at least for now, and can step in circumstances when Ashwin isn't available. But Parwez Rasool is a capable all-rounder who can bowl the conventional offy pretty well, and hopefully he'll get a couple of opportunities in the remaining matches.

You're still not questioning Raina despite his utterly dreadful record outside Asia?

KP_fan wrote:

As for Mishra, most of his wickets came through the googly which the Zimbabwe batsmen failed to pick. I doubt whether he'll have as much success with the delivery against other sides. But he seems to have cut out the mandatory no-ball an over habit at least for now, and can step in circumstances when Ashwin isn't available

 
msp.....you don't think much of Mishra do you ? 
 
he has been inconsistent.....but trust me at his peak he resembles Mushtaq Ahmed.
and his cause in the long run hasn't been helped by him falling out with Dhoni and being seen as Sehwag's man......in the bad days of Indian cricket when the Sehwag-Dhoni rift had peaked

Agree with msp on this. He's a good back up but Ashwin was superb against top sides in the CT. Can't even think about displacing him. Still rate Bhaji higher than Mishra too.

Raina is under question under item-5 of my list....and should not consider his position for granted....unfrotunately thouhg.......Dhoni loves Raina and almost literally.....so inspite of what we want Raina ain't going anywhere.

Mishra should be India's 3rd spinner in home tests...ahead of Ojha....he is the highest quality leg spinner in the world since Danish Kaneria

KP_fan wrote:

As for Mishra, most of his wickets came through the googly which the Zimbabwe batsmen failed to pick. I doubt whether he'll have as much success with the delivery against other sides. But he seems to have cut out the mandatory no-ball an over habit at least for now, and can step in circumstances when Ashwin isn't available

 
msp.....you don't think much of Mishra do you ? 
 
he has been inconsistent.....but trust me at his peak he resembles Mushtaq Ahmed.
and his cause in the long run hasn't been helped by him falling out with Dhoni and being seen as Sehwag's man......in the bad days of Indian cricket when the Sehwag-Dhoni rift had peaked

Well, I have to say Mishra is not a particular favorite for me, but I'd take him any day everyday over Piyush Chawla. Certainly India's best leggy, and a decent replacement in ODIs. The most infuriating thing about Mishra has been the no-balls he tends to bowl, but it seems he has at last done some meaningful work on that front. He's one bench player who has really taken his chance for sure.

While I share Shanky's and KPF's concerns regarding Raina, I am not too sure anyone in this playing group can perform the Raina role all that better. Rohit Sharma in theory could have, but we all know he has been an atrocious middle order player in practice, and that he seems to have found more consistency at the top of the order. If Raina doesn't start finding form soon, perhaps the selectors have to pick up the phone and call Yuvraj and ask about his fitness and tell him he's still in the mix. Or else, they can perhaps look at Robin Uthappa as a middle order option.

Uthappa has hired Amre as a private coach to help iron out his flaws...and we hear Gambhir has hired WV Raman.

cricket's going the tennis way...stars with money hiring perrsonal trainers....let's see if it delivers results...the bench is full and reserves are briming with takent...ain't gonna be easy to break back into the Indian team..especially for Uthapa and Gambhir age is not with them

Despite the poor form in batting, I still hold Raina a significant member of the team. The guy is immense in the field and comes off as another leader on the pitch. He's also a handy part time bowler. He's just going through a bad patch at the moment, like many batsmen have but im sure he will find his groove. Maybe a boost up the batting order would help?

Yes msp, I was thinking of Yuvraj too.

With regards to Rohit, msp, I agree that he has been a disappointment in the middle order, his record outside the subcontinent even in the middle order is still better than that of Raina.
I personally won't pick either of them to be honest but if it came down to a choice between the two, it'd have to be Rohit for me, with the WC in Oz.
I'd first have a look at Yuvi though.

ShankyCricket wrote:With regards to Rohit, msp, I agree that he has been a disappointment in the middle order, his record outside the subcontinent even in the middle order is still better than that of Raina.
I personally won't pick either of them to be honest but if it came down to a choice between the two, it'd have to be Rohit for me, with the WC in Oz.
I'd first have a look at Yuvi though.

Between Rohit and Raina, I will certainly go for Raina in a middle order role. Rohit has found just a little bit of consistency, earning at least the right to the next series for the last couple of events through performance at the top of the order. There is not a lot of difference as far what they bring to the side as middle order bats outside Asian conditions, but Raina adds more value to the side in his other roles, as fielder and parttime bowler than Rohit does. But I would certainly love a fully fit and on-form Yuvraj Singh back in the side.

My first choice XI

Dhawan
Pujara
Kohli
Gambhir/Rayudu
Yuvraj
Dhoni (c-wk)
Jadeja
Ashwin
B Kumar
+
2 seamers out of Praveen, Ishant, Shami, Unadkat and Kaul.

Something to look forward to today's game. Cheteshwar Pujara is making his ODI debut, coming in place of the rested Shikhar Dhawan, and Mohit Sharma too is playing his first ODI. India are bowling having won the toss, and Zimbabwe are 35-1 after 10.

Mohit Sharma seamed one away from Sikandar Raza and forced him to edge behind to take his first ODI wicket. Then Ravindra Jadeja scored a brilliant direct hit to run Hamilton Masakadza out to leave Zimbabwe struggling early in the innings at 36-2 after 11 overs.

Now Jadeja strikes with the ball, captain Taylor gone LBW. Zimbabwe 44-3.

Zimbabwe are collapsing bigtime, Jaidev Unadkat joins the party, Williams gone, Zimbabwe 47-4.

Jadeja gets another, the set Sibanda gos after scoring half of Zimbabwe's 48 runs so far, they are 48-5.

An unbeaten 50 from Elton Chigumbura stretched Zimbabwe's total from 48-5 to 144 all out. India in response are 25-1 in the 11th over. Cheteshwar Pujara's debut innings ended on 13 when he played on to Tendai Chatara. Suresh Raina with a promotion in the lineup, at 3 today, joins Rohit Sharma.

Im glad Raina got a promotion, in fact I can see him being a good opener for India. Right now, him and Sharma are looking real comfortable.

so it's turning out to be a perfect series for India.....
Mishra continues to bamboozle.....
Mohit makes a dream start....all 3 seamers are firing well.....and looking like good backups.....

finally Raina and Rohit get runs......Rayadu impressed.

Pujara could have done with some runs.....he has one more game.

DK has been the only one going poorer inspite of his one 50+

we need to have Rasool in the last game instead of Jadeja
does anyone know what was the speed of mohit today ?

Jadeja should be rested for the last game for sure. Since been picked in the test squad he has been playing non-stopped this could be a good time to rest him just a little bit and also give young Rasool an opening. Virat Kohli too deserves a bit of rest, won't be a bad idea to have Raina leading the side for the last game.
Rohit Sharma/Shikhar Dhawan
Cheteshwar Pujara
Ajinkya Rahane
Suresh Raina
Ambati Rayudu
Dinesh Karthik
Parwez Rasool
Amit Mishra
Jaidev Unadkat
Mohit Sharma
Shami Ahmed

msp..at what speeds were the Indian seamers bolwing...did you watch ?

KP_fan wrote:msp..at what speeds were the Indian seamers bolwing...did you watch ?

Didn't watch the game at all today apart from a couple of overs from Jadeja and Unadkat. Followed it only on cricinfo and they gave no real info on the speeds.

I'd have Pujara as captain. No point appointing Raina as he isn't a long term solution. Captain should be one who is capable of playing in both the longer forms (Tests and ODIs). I don't see Kohli being rested though. Nohit scoring runs and Pujara not scoring is not what the team needed. Now Nohit will hang on to his spot for a few more games scoring slowcoach fifties at a pitiful Strike Rate without converting. I hope Pujara is given a good run but won't happen.

KP_fan wrote:so it's turning out to be a perfect series for India.....
Mishra continues to bamboozle.....
Mohit makes a dream start....all 3 seamers are firing well.....and looking like good backups.....

finally Raina and Rohit get runs......Rayadu impressed.

Pujara could have done with some runs.....he has one more game.

DK has been the only one going poorer  inspite of his one 50+

we need to have Rasool in the last game instead of Jadeja
does anyone know what was the speed of mohit today ?

Why should they just be back ups? Umesh Yadav is inexplicably profligate in ODIs (he has a Dernbach-esque record), least one of these 3 should play ahead of him in the first choice eleven. I'd keep him strictly for Tests for now and re-assess his ODI status after the SA tour. I am no fan of Ishant but he's probably just about earned his ODI spot for now although I won't have him in my Test side.

Oh...OK I see what you mean shanky.
I treat these ODIs as a testing / trial ground for more valuable tests....and I am talking about test matches specifically.
 
and in tests to me Yadav is India's main strike bowler given his pace and reverse...and B. Kumar has earned the right to be No.2 with his prodigious swing at good pace.
 
I agree anyone of the younger kids on display in this series can be the 3rd seamer.
 
I also agree Ishant isn't my prefrred test match bowler.
 
and that's why I am keen to know what speed these guys are bowling......in addtion to swing and control...what it the top speed they can hit is also an important criteria for successully test match bowling

Not that quick, KPF. More interested in seeing how the A team bowlers go vs SA A in the 2 4day matches. Pandey, Kaul, Shami, Unadkat. At least 1 or 2 of them will be in the full test squad later this year.

KP_fan wrote:Oh...OK I see what you mean shanky.
I treat these ODIs as a testing / trial ground for more valuable tests....

and in tests to me Yadav is India's main strike bowler given his pace abd reverse...and B. Kumar has earned the right to be No.2

I agree anyone of the younger kids on display in this series can be the 3rd seamer.

I also agree Ishant isn't my prefrred test match bowler.

and that's why I am keen to know what speed these guys are bowling......in addtion to swing and control...what it the top speed they can hit is also an important criteria for successully test match bowling

For me, BK is No.1 and Yadav No.2 but that doesn't matter. Both equally crucial to the Test side. I won't pick Yadav in the shorter formats till the SA Test series. No Ishant in Tests. Ok with him in ODIs/T20Is for now. BK in all formats.

I would like to see if there is any life left in old horse zaheer...if in peak match fitness I would play him as 3rd seamer and let him go flat out....it's OK if he can last even one or two tests...in SA
 
Regrading the A-tour of SA......Sami and Udakat are the lead seamers.....Kaul is a medium pace bolwing allrounder
Pandey....is defnitely worth watching as the lead Ranji wicket taker....but from what I saw of him....too raw yet.

KPF, perhaps you getting between the 2 Kaul brothers Uday and Siddharth? Uday is a capable wicketkeeper who is one of Punjab's best batsmen, while Siddharth leads the seam bowling unit with young Sandeep Sharma. From what I've read and whatever litele I saw him in action, he does bowl at a pretty decent pace. Unlike Sandeep, Sid doesn't rely too much on swing, seam and pace are his strengths.
As for captaincy for the next, actually making Pujara won't be a bad move at all, particularly considering he's leading the A team in South Africa. However, it is unlikely that he would be asked to do the job only in his 2nd game, that too ahead of experienced players like Raina. But if both Raina and captain Kohli are resting, perhaps it will come down to one of Pujara, Rohit and Karthik.

you are right msp.....i looked up and see that Siddarth Kaul doid top the bowling for Punjab 44 wickets in 9 games at 23....and not too far behind was sandeep sharma with 41 wkts from 9 games at 19 average.

but I was always under the impression that s Kaul is just a medium pacer.
haver you see him bowl in Ranji ?..what speeds does he gets ?

He's pretty much capable of bowling in the mid to late 130s.

i read yuv and zaheer have joined a fitness training program in France.

i would like Zaheer to be with ind-A in SA to prove so e match fitness and get some form and rythm.

is there any more cricket after Zim tou and before the SA tour ?

KP_fan wrote:i read yuv and zaheer have joined a fitness training program in France.

i would like Zaheer to be with ind-A in SA to prove so e match fitness and get some form and rythm.

is there any more cricket after Zim tou and before the SA tour ?

Luckily, the Test series starts on the 26th of December and I'd expect the selectors to delay the squad announcement.
Even if it is named in the last week of November, he'll still have quite a few Duleep and Ranji games to make his case. The same goes for Gambhir too IMO. As for Yuvraj, well, he isn't a realistic contender for a test spot but I'd pick him in the ODI team for the next series straightaway.

Oh and btw, I've watched a fair bit of Sid Kaul in domestic cricket. MSP is right. He is pretty brisk, not quite Yadav but can bowl into the late 130s and touch 140. He does swing and seam the ball too. Very good prospect IMO. I think he's the best of the 4 in the A side.

ShankyCricket wrote:

KP_fan wrote:i read yuv and zaheer have joined a fitness training program in France.

i would like Zaheer to be with ind-A in SA to prove so e match fitness and get some form and rythm.

is there any more cricket after Zim tou and before the SA tour ?

Luckily, the Test series starts on the 26th of December and I'd expect the selectors to delay the squad announcement.
Even if it is named in the last week of November, he'll still have quite a few Duleep and Ranji games to make his case. The same goes for Gambhir too IMO. As for Yuvraj, well, he isn't a realistic contender for a test spot but I'd pick him in the ODI team for the next series straightaway.

Oh and btw, I've watched a fair bit of Sid Kaul in domestic cricket. MSP is right. He is pretty brisk, not quite Yadav but can bowl into the late 130s and touch 140. He does swing and seam the ball too. Very good prospect IMO. I think he's the best of the 4 in the A side.

thanks for the input on Kaul's speed...if he gets upto 140ish...he is surely a prospect to keep an eye for.
so is there any international cricket for us until 26th Dec  

Lots, KPF. A couple of 7 match ODI series coming up. Vs Aus at home and vs SA in SA.

Last of the 5 ODIs today. India won the toss and are bowling. Ajinkya Rahane for Rayudu, Shikhar Dhawan back after been rested in the previous game, and Rohit Sharma is sitting this one out.
Can't say I am impressed by the team management decision not to play Parwez Rasool, he's the only one in the squad who didn't get a game. Besides, I have to say its Rayudu and not Raina or Kohli who has gone out for Rahane.

As Shahbaz Nadeem and Rasool are the only spinners in the A side touring South Africa, I believe Rasool will have his chances there. He does look a more attacking spinner than Nadeem is ,and he can bat as well.

Zimbabwe have just lost their first wicket. Sibanda goes, edging behind of Unadkat. They are 13-1 after 4 overs.

msp83 wrote:Last of the 5 ODIs today. India won the toss and are bowling. Ajinkya Rahane for Rayudu, Shikhar Dhawan back after been rested in the previous game, and Rohit Sharma is sitting this one out.
Can't say I am impressed by the team management decision not to play Parwez Rasool, he's the only one in the squad who didn't get a game. Besides, I have to say its Rayudu and not Raina or Kohli who has gone out for Rahane.

yeah smacks of dhoni favoiritism....not releasing Raina at any cost
theay could have sat DK out kept wkts with Rayadu to play Rahane
OR Rahane in place of Raina


I am not so sure that Rasool will play in SA...they ma play Nadeem as the only spinner

i am watching my first game and there are no speed guns....so we cannot see the speeds of Undakat and sharma....who look like milders versions of Starc and Siddle

45-4 zim now

gone from good to bad to worse Zim has as the series progressed

Zimbabwe batting struggling yet again. 78-5 after 24. Chigumbura and Williams at the crease. All of India's main strike bowlers picking up a wicket each.

KP_fan wrote:i am watching my first game and there are no speed guns....so we cannot see the speeds of Undakat and sharma....who look like milders versions of Starc and Siddle

Forget speedguns, ZC isn't even quite able to provide a decent meal for their players.
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/outrage-in-zimbabwe-over-cricketers-plight-minister-seeks-icc-bcci-help/1150600/

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote:Last of the 5 ODIs today. India won the toss and are bowling. Ajinkya Rahane for Rayudu, Shikhar Dhawan back after been rested in the previous game, and Rohit Sharma is sitting this one out.
Can't say I am impressed by the team management decision not to play Parwez Rasool, he's the only one in the squad who didn't get a game. Besides, I have to say its Rayudu and not Raina or Kohli who has gone out for Rahane.

yeah smacks of dhoni favoiritism....not releasing Raina at any cost
theay could have sat DK out kept wkts with Rayadu to play Rahane
OR Rahane in place of Raina


I am not so sure that Rasool will play in SA...they ma play Nadeem as the only spinner

Rasool was India A's main spinner against Australia and did well in that game. Nadeem might get a game at some point, but I expect Rasool to start ahead of him.

^I hope so too.
Nadeem ain't going anywhere.....he is a ripe old flattish restrictive SLA

Rasool is a conventional flighting type offie, young and with batting prospects........with a lot of X-factor possibilites