London Irish 2013/14 Discussion Thread

[Ozzy3213]

First topic message reminder :

Welcome to the new seasons London Irish discussion thread.  This is where you can talk about all tings   London Irish, good or bad, and it's always good to get the views of supporters of other clubs.
 
 
So here are this seasons senior and academy squads (Full internationals in bold).
 
Senior Squad (38)
 
HK David Paice (England)
HK Jimmy Stevens (England)
HK Michael Mayhew (New Zealand/England)
 
PR John Yapp (Wales)
PR Jonny Harris (England)
PR Matt Parr (England)
PR Leo Halavatua (Tonga)
PR Halani Aulika (Tonga) (injured)
PR Jamie Hagan (Ireland)
PR CJ van der Linde (South Africa) (injured - returned to South Africa)
 
 
LK George Skivington (England)
LK Bryn Evans (New Zealand)
LK Nic Rouse (England)
LK Kieran Low (Scotland)
LK Ian Gough(Wales)

 
FL Declan Danaher (England)
FL Jebb Sinclair (Canada)
FL Ofisa Treviranus (Samoa)
FL Blair Cowan (Scotland)
 
N8 Chris Hala'ufia (Tonga)
N8 Jon Fisher (England) (injured)
 
 
SH Tomas O'Leary (Ireland) (suspended)
SH Pat Phibbs (Australia) (injured)
SH Darren Allinson (Wales)
 
FH Ian Humphreys (Ireland)
FH Shane Geraghty (England)
FH Myles Dorrian (Australia/England)
 
CE Setaimata Sa (Samoa) (injured)
CE Guy Armitage (England) (injured)
CE Eamonn Sheridan (England/Ireland)
CE Fergus Mulchrone (England/Ireland) (injured)

 
WG Marland Yarde (England)
WG Topsy Ojo (England)
WG Sailosi Tagicakibau (Samoa) (on loan to the Stormers)
WG Andrew Fenby (Wales)
WG Alex Lewington (England)
 
FB Tom Homer (England) (injured)
CE James O'Connor (Australia)
 
 
Academy Squad (12)
 
HK Gerard Ellis (England)
HK Justin Oro-Campos (England)
 
PR Tom Smallbone (England)
PR Richard Palframan (South Africa)
 
LK Scott Moore (England)
LK Charlie Davey (England)
 
FL Danny Kenny (Ireland)
 
 
SH Ed Hoadley (England)
 
CE Ian Cross (Ireland)
 
WG Tom Fowlie (England)
WG George Owen (England)
 
 
Preview
 
 
 
My first thought looking at the squad is that we are light on both numbers and a a bit of quality up front.  We have two thirds of a decent front row with Paice and Aulika, but we are missing a proven senior loosehead, and that could be a problem for us going through the season.  The second row is similar, with Skivs and Bryn the only proven performers.  In the back row, much will rest on Big Trev and The Hoff in terms of carrying and providing power.
 
In the backs I am reasonably happy.  TOL and iHumph looked good together before TOL got injured, and in the centre I am looking forward to seeing Sa and Armitage paired together.  They are two big, physical guys, but they also have good hands.  In the back three we have options, not least Marland Yarde who is looking every inch a test class winger.  It would appear though looking at the make up of the squad, that we are likely to see Losi more in the centre than on the wing.
 
The academy looks decent with potential, and all are likely to get LV game time, with some also seeing action in the Amlin, given the noises coming out of the club from Brian Smith.
 
The reality is that there are no big names in the squad, and a lot of new faces, which means they will need to gel quickly if we are to get anywhere this season.  A lot of people have us down to finish bottom, and I can see the reasons why, however with my optimist head on, and my supporters heart I would saythis.
 
 
All of the players we now have, are there because they want to be.  The ones that remain from before have chosen to do so, and have obviously bought into Brian Smith's philosophy.  we also have a number of guys who for a variety of reasons will be keen to prove themselves.  The three lads from Tigers come with an excellent grounding and a desire to show that they can play at this level.  If the whole squad can knit together and have a point to prove, we could well prove to be a side that is more than the sum of it's parts.  Injuries will be crucial as ever, and we cannot afford to lose key players for extended periods.
 
I suspect we will be in the relegation scrap, but I am backing us to stay up.  Either way, one thing is sure and will always be true, and that's the fact that I'd rather be a paddy than a Quin.
 
 
Ozzy's prediction: 10th
 
 
Quick Links
 
 
Official Website

The Craic
 
London Irish Twitter
RugbyLI Twitter
 
London Irish Wild Geese
 
The Fields of Athenry

[SirBurger]

Thanks - pleased about Hoadley. He has looked decent when I have seen him.

[Ozzy3213]

He looks to have loads of potential SB, would have liked to have seen him get a bit more game time in the Amlin and LV to be honest, but I can understand Brian wanting to get Tomas and Shane up to speed working together, and it paid off with them both now in great form (apart from TOL's utter brain fart on Saturday!).

I wouldn't be at all surprised if we end up with a lock from one of the SANZAR nations, most likely South Africa as they don't count as one of the two 'foreign' players you're allowed in the matchday squads.

[Hood83]

Fowlie will be a star.  Is only just 18 and has played Amlin and LV Cup this season, and made his Premiership debut off the bench against Saracens.  He's getting game time on the wing this year, but will eventually be an outside centre.  

Smallbone has looked good, but has had injury issues, which is worrying for a young prop.  I think it will be another couple of years before we can really assess how good he is going to be, and he has mainly played for the Wild Geese (LI amateur team) this season.

Hood, I think most Falcons fans on here were of the same mind as you, and if I recall correctly, almost everyone on here had us doing what Worcester have ended up doing this season.  Obviously with green tinted specs I always thought we would be above yourselves and Worcester.  Fortunately for us, our Championship acquisitions, Parr, Rouse, Sheridan and Mulchrone have been excellent for us, and with other Premiership and international quality players around them we are now in a good position to kick on.  Brian Smith did well for us in his first spell at the club, hence getting the call from England.  I think he is probably more suited to club management than the international set up, as he is very good at the day to day stuff and his recruitment is proving to be top notch.

Cool, I thought Fowlie was a centre. Yeah, in my defence, Champ level players are quite often a bit of a gamble, but fair point re Smith's first LI run. I really just thought so many decent players leaving would leave the place a little morose. Looks like Smith has steadied the ship really well.

[Ozzy3213]

There were some clear issues with players who didn't want to be there last season Hood. whilst we lost some top talent, there is a much better team spirit and vibe about the place now. Everyone who is there wants to be there, as evidenced by the fact that I think 9 players were out of contract this year, and 8 re-signed, even though we were 10th or 11th in the table at the time.

The Championship players were definitely a gamble, but Glenn Delaney came in as forwards coach from Nottingham, so certainly knew what we were getting in Parr and Rouse. O'Connor coming in just before the end of 2013 was a massive lift for us, and I don't think it's a coincidence that our form has picked up from the turn of the year.

What's going on up at Falcons? Deano seems to be making some odd decisions. I wonder if those years away from the Premiership mean he's still kind of stuck in the past with his gameplan.

[Hood83]

There were some clear issues with players who didn't want to be there last season Hood.  whilst we lost some top talent, there is a much better team spirit and vibe about the place now.  Everyone who is there wants to be there, as evidenced by the fact that I think 9 players were out of contract this year, and 8 re-signed, even though we were 10th or 11th in the table at the time.

The Championship players were definitely a gamble, but Glenn Delaney came in as forwards coach from Nottingham, so certainly knew what we were getting in Parr and Rouse.  O'Connor coming in just before the end of 2013 was a massive lift for us, and I don't think it's a coincidence that our form has picked up from the turn of the year.

What's going on up at Falcons?  Deano seems to be making some odd decisions.  I wonder if those years away from the Premiership mean he's still kind of stuck in the past with his gameplan.

That's a good point, easy to underestimate a happy camp. Seems like Delaney is doing a good job with your pack.

Yeah, we could really do with a marque signing. The coaching has disappointed me to be honest, not just Deano but also Russell, who I had high hopes for. You could well be right re Deano now being a bit too 'old-school'. At the time a lot of us thought that would be positive, get a competitive pack and work from there, pure pragmatism. But our pack has seemed very one-paced, that's my gripe. The backs are pretty useless, but the 9-10 pivot is desperately average (well, 10 mainly). It's very difficult to see where we're going on the tactics and training, but it feels like an 'arm-wrestle' pack with a big front five, and steadying 'generals' at 10. The problem is our rucking is not dynamic enough and our 10s have been poop.

Then again, according to the website Russell is 114 years old, so he can perhaps be forgiven for failing to move with the times... http://www.newcastlefalcons.co.uk/Team/View/33

[Submachine]

Hey, just wondering what the story is on Hagan. He started and finished against Leicester and came off with only 5 to go in the previous two games. Has he improved signifigantly or is Halavatau nursing an injury?

[Heaf]

Hagan came off early with a rib injury against Tigers?

[Submachine]

Really? Didn't see any footage just read the BBC report. They didn't mention injury and have Halavatau listed as unused sub.

[SirBurger]

BBC report is wrong. Hagan played about 10 mins and was then subbed off injured.

He was carrying an injury at the start of the season and has therefore taken a while to make his mark with us. However, he was very good against Wasps and Sarries, with a particularly high work rate around the park. He still needs to fine-tune a few things at scrum time, but I think he will become an important player for us.

[Submachine]

Cheers.

[Ozzy3213]

Agree with SB, Hago's workrate around the park has been exceptional in recent weeks. Still worries me a bit at scrum time, as his body position isn't great and he has a tendency to hit the deck a bit too easily and gives away a few penalties.

[stnick88]

Hagan and CJ both out for the season. We will need an emergency loan tighthead.

[SirBurger]

That's a blow. Too soon for Palframan?

[Ozzy3213]

I thought that might be the case with CJ, as I posted over on The Craic this morning.

Leo deserves a medal for the amount of games he's had to play this season.

[Guest]

Luke Narraway signs for 2 years:

http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12550/9185547/luke-narraway-returning-to-aviva-premiership-with-london-irish-on-two-year-deal

[Ozzy3213]

Happy with Narraway coming in.

Sadly it appears that we may be losing Losi, which I will be gutted about.

[Heaf]

Drat and double drat

[Ozzy3213]

Loads going on at the club at the moment.

Strong rumours

Stephen Brett is a done deal.
Geoff Cross is a done deal.
iHumph back to Ulster.

Academy/AASE news

The AASE side beat Hartpury College (Gloucester RFC) at their place last night 20-13. This is a hugely significant result. For those who do not follow at this level, Hartpury have lost 2 AASE matches since 2009, and both are to us this season.

We are now qualified for the semi finals where we will face Prince Henry's Grammar (Leeds Carnegie) at their place, with a potential 3rd match with Hartpury awaiting in the final.

This is an excellent AASE group for us, and they find out if they are getting academy contracts next week. My understanding is that here will be around 5-8 of them offered academy contracts and another 3 or 4 who will be signed to play for the Wild Geese. There is some real talent in the squad with a couple having played at international U18 level this season.

There is also Theo Brophy-Clews, who is not part of the AASE scheme as he attends a different college but was part of the academy U18 league team this season who also played for England U18's recently. I'm not sure what his status is in terms of being contracted to a pro club, but I would hope that the club are looking at him and might offer him something.

[SirBurger]

Hi Ozzy - looking forward to finding out who the new academy players are. Connor Murphy and Cameron Cowell appear to be the pick of the backs and Ollie Curry in the second row is getting some good reviews, along with Ollie Adams who has obviously been playing England 18s. Reuben Norville, the winger has also been picked for Scotland 18s so is obviously also a decent talent.

As for Theo Brophy Clews, I am 99% sure that he is playing for England 18s a year young so still has a year left of schooling at Abingdon. Once that is over I really hope he is with us for the 15/16 season. I watched him play the last 10 or 15 minutes against Australia in the Autumn and he looked to have a good passing and running game.

[Ozzy3213]

The future's bright, the future's green and white!   

                

[exileray]

pete, do you know if the Geoff cross deal is a short or long term deal.
I hope it's a 2/3 year deal and a couple of big second row forwards to follow.


ray.

[Ozzy3213]

Ray, from what I am lead to believe it is a permanent deal as opposed to short term cover. Not sure on length of contract but I would imagine either a 2 or 3 year deal.

[Heaf]

The future's bright, the future's green and white!   

                

That works much better than orange

[Ozzy3213]

I've just been told the AASE lads are finding out today if they are being offered contracts or not. Must be a massively stressful day for them, as all the year 2 lads are striving to reach the next level.

[Ozzy3213]

None of this is confirmed, but apparently Stephen Brett has fallen through. iHumph won't be allowed to leave unless we can find a replacement.

Academy contracts have been offered to Ollie Adams, Conor Murphy, James Lightfoot-Brown and Cameron Cowell from the AASE.

Eoin Sheriff from Saracens is rumoured, and we are also looking at another lock (who is a current international), but Wasps and Saracens are both talking to the player as well. Wasps hold an advantage as they have another player in their squad who he is potentially very good friends with.

[George Carlin]

Ray, from what I am lead to believe it is a permanent deal as opposed to short term cover.  Not sure on length of contract but I would imagine either a 2 or 3 year deal.

Cross will be quietly excellent for you guys. The only reason he didn't play more for Edinburgh is that (a) Bradley was a bit of a donkey when it came to selection and (b) there were more fashionable alternatives. Cross has saved our backside against the French front row on a number of occasions now. His nickname is the Scrum Doctor for a reason. Er. And the fact that he's a doctor. One of the most underrated scrummagers around.

[SirBurger]

None of this is confirmed, but apparently Stephen Brett has fallen through.  iHumph won't be allowed to leave unless we can find a replacement.

Academy contracts have been offered to Ollie Adams, Conor Murphy, James Lightfoot-Brown and Cameron Cowell from the AASE.

Eoin Sheriff from Saracens is rumoured, and we are also looking at another lock (who is a current international), but Wasps and Saracens are both talking to the player as well.  Wasps hold an advantage as they have another player in their squad who he is potentially very good friends with.

Gutted on Brett and the international lock. Sounds like we are going to miss out on two quality players. Not the best start to the day! I have no issue with Humph, but sounds like he wants to go home for family reasons and I don't like the idea of a player staying with us against his will. Brett would have been a good opportunity to potentially upgrade (if he could re-find the form of a few years ago). There are very few players on the market at either 10 (see the trouble Glos have had) or at lock. It sounds like we may struggle to fill those slots....

On another note, I hope we can at least get Cross and the new academy players announced this week. It would be good to have some news formally announced prior to St Patrick's Day.

[Heaf]

James Short from Sarries just announced ...

[Ozzy3213]

Good signing. Loads of pace and good finisher.

[LondonTiger]

I know that I sometimes suggest you have a persecution complex, Pete, but there were a couple of decisions that I felt were seriously unfair at the weekend.

For me Parr should never have been sin-binned - silly offence, but it was in the Bath 22 for god's sake. Secondly how was the Bath aplayer (rokudugani I think) not sin-binned when penalised for deliberate knock on with your boys close to the line.

[Heaf]

And how was the try that was the turning point allowed when there was clear obstruction?

[Heaf]

And why was a ban for one of our players suspended when we didn't have any games when the same thing didn't happen for a Falcon's player?

I'm not sure it's a complex ... seems to be pretty real - last year Huff even managed to get a red card and ban for a perfectly legal tackle ....

[LondonTiger]

And how was the try that was the turning point allowed when there was clear obstruction?

Ah well, I am afraid (and I wanted LI to win) that I felt Hala'ufia (sp?) milked that. He had set himself and was wrong footed - was never getting there. Now yes Attwood held him back a touch - but in the words of the TMO who allowed Farrell's try v Australia - "there was not enough obstruction".

[Heaf]

I don't think it was Huff as he was still on the bench then ... but that was one of only two obstructions in reality and was a deliberate holding back - completely different to the Hartley one IMHO ... pretty much all the commentators etc that have talked about it during and post match (many of them current players) say it was a penalty - even Gary Gold.

[Jimpy]

Went to the match. Good St Patrick's Day party as usual, but as usual, the rugby on show at the Mad Stad fails to impress.

I can't work out whether LI were unlucky, or just inept in attack (they had plenty of chances). Or, are Bath really20 odd points better?

[Heaf]

Garner aside yes LI looked poor in attack yesterday - ball handling was poor etc - not sure why as they have been better ...

[Heaf]

To add a little perspective as well, Quins and Chiefs were beaten by bigger margins - although admittedly they were playing away ...

[Heaf]

Geoff Cross signing confirmed ...

[SirBurger]

I would be interested in a neutral's opinion because to me a starting pack of:

Court
Paice
Aulika
Skivington
Cox
Treviranus
Cowan
Narraway

Looks like a really competitive unit. Bench of:

Mayhew
Parr
Cross
Low
Guest

I am really happy with that and there are possibly still one or two to add.

[Nematode]

Sean Cox should be a good signing for you - he's a good ball-carrying, abrasive second row who perhaps lost out just with our new coach. Nice to see a bit of a Scottish bloc forming - Low, Cross & Cowan

[George Carlin]

Cross should push Halani Aulika very hard for the 3 shirt.

[SirBurger]

Cross should push Halani Aulika very hard for the 3 shirt.

I think the two of them working in tandem will be a formidable unit. Aulika is well-known for his carrying game, but was actually a fantastic scrummager for us as well last season, which is why I think he will edge that battle, although I can't wait to see what happens. He would be a great impact sub for the occasions when Cross does get the nod!

[Margin_Walker]

Cross should push Halani Aulika very hard for the 3 shirt.

I think the two of them working in tandem will be a formidable unit. Aulika is well-known for his carrying game, but was actually a fantastic scrummager for us as well last season, which is why I think he will edge that battle, although I can't wait to see what happens. He would be a great impact sub for the occasions when Cross does get the nod!

Yep, Cross will likely be the go to guy in the games against the bigger scrummaging teams, but we've massively missed Aulika's carrying game (and tries!) this season with him out. Would expect a fair amount of rotation.

[Ozzy3213]

Squad updated with injuries and suspensions.

(academy players in italics)....

Back Three
Homer, Lewington, Ojo, Fenby, Short, Fowlie

Centres
Sheridan, G.Armitage, Griffin, Mulchrone

Outside Halfs
Geraghty, Dorrian

Scrum Halfs
O'Leary, Phibbs, Allinson, Hoadley, Murphy

Loosehead Props
Court, Parr, Harris, Smallbone

Hookers
Paice, Mayhew, Stevens, Ellis

Tighthead Props
Aulika, Hagan, Halvatau, Cross, Palframan

Locks
Skivington, Rouse, Cox

Back Row
Sinclair, Low, Cowan, Treviranus, Fisher, Guest, Narraway

Cameron Cowell, Ollie Adams and Harry Lightfoot from the AASE squad have been offered academy contracts but I don't have an update as to whether they have signed or not.

                            

[Ozzy3213]

Cross should push Halani Aulika very hard for the 3 shirt.

I think the two of them working in tandem will be a formidable unit. Aulika is well-known for his carrying game, but was actually a fantastic scrummager for us as well last season, which is why I think he will edge that battle, although I can't wait to see what happens. He would be a great impact sub for the occasions when Cross does get the nod!

This is kind of how I see it, Cross starting and Halani from the bench. Could be a seriously lethal combination if we can get the rest of the pack right.

[exileray]

let me throw another good spanner into the mix. I don't think we will see a lot of matt parr as I think that Jamie hagan will move to loosehead to work in tandem with tom court. Jamie hagan is a very good prop I have leinster friends that have confirmed this and don't forget that hagan has been playing for the past 4 months with a neck injury that he will be getting sorted in june.

things are looking good....with more to follow

[SirBurger]

let me throw another good spanner into the mix. I don't think we will see a lot of matt parr as I think that Jamie hagan will move to loosehead  to work in tandem with tom court. Jamie hagan is a very good prop I have leinster friends that have confirmed this and don't forget that hagan has been playing for the past 4 months with a neck injury that he will be getting sorted in june.

 things are looking good....with more to follow  

That is interesting and does make some sense as Hagan looks a bit on the small side to be a dominant tight head.

[Submachine]

I can tell you for a fact that Jamie has played more at scrum half than loose head. Never going to be on the left side of the scrum. He is a moderately mobile tight head who makes his tackles, hits his rucks and when scrummaging to the best of his ability can do a decent job there. He doesn't offer much in ball carrying and would never fit the modern template of a loose head with the high work rate and ground work that is expected of them. He actually left Leinster on a bit of a high after an extended run in the team and a series of good displays in the scrum. Got his first cap in the summer on the back of it.
Personally I hoped the extra game time he would get in the aviva would bring his scrummaging on further but I saw the bath game on bit sport recently and he looked a bit of a passenger. I hear he has been playing with a few knocks so hopefully he can still improve.

[Ozzy3213]

I would be surprised if Hago moves to loosehead. We now have good depth at tighthead, which is what we've lacked in recent years. Matt Parr has done well for us at loosehead, and will be good back up for Tom Court there next season.

[Ozzy3213]

Dan Leo widely reported to have signed for us, and I understand a couple of announcements are imminent, which I believe to be another couple of additions in the backs, and also an addition to the coaching set up.

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