Ewen McKenzie to be new Wallaby coach.

Found this on the Australian just now.

Brett McKay wrote:THE ARU will announce Queensland Reds director of coaching Ewen McKenzie as the new Wallabies coach as early as tomorrow.

McKenzie will take over the Wallabies’ reins for the opening Bledisloe Cup Test in Sydney on August 17 guide the team to the 2015 World Cup in England.

ARU chief executive Bill Pulver met with Robbie Deans today to inform him that his contract would be terminated with six months to run. His fate was sealed after the Wallabies' record 41-16 loss to the British and Irish Lions in Sydney last Saturday night.

McKenzie, long regarded as Deans’ logical successor after guiding the Reds to the Super Rugby title in 2011, has fended off a strong challenge from the Brumbies’ World Cup winning coach Jake White.

Happy it isn't Jake White, Deans went through enugh as a foreign coach.

A positive thing, coming years late.

I suspect we will see the global shuffle now. I foresee an age of SH coaches dominating the North.

It makes sense really. It is very hard to be a foreign coach of an international team for any length of time. Firstly because they tend not to be immersed in the local culture, but secondly and more importantly because fans round on an overseas coach much quicker.

Though they deny it now, there was a clamour for Gatland's head by Welsh posters on the original 606 before the 2011 RWC started. All credit for the 2008 GS had dissipated, and 3 4th palce finishes in a row had left people very unhappy.

For now he is god, but should the AIs follow 2012's pattern expect to see people turn on him again.

LT, that is the nature of humans, elation installs heroes, disappointment demand axing, and it is easy to forget the one or the other.

Exactly. Anyone remember the outrage in NZ when Graham Henry was kept on as All Black coach in 2008 instead if Robbie Deans? He had been "lost" to Australia just like the 2003 hosting rights...and calls were for the entire NZRU board to be axed.

Biltong wrote:LT, that is the nature of humans, elation installs heroes, disappointment demand axing, and it is easy to forget the one or the other.

Indeed it is. It is also human nature that we are more forgiving of "our own" than we are of outsiders. Even worse if it is a near rival that the outsider comes from. Robbie Deans was pretty much on to a loser as soon as he took the job. Can you imagine the uproar if a Welsh coach managed England (and vice versa) and results went poorly?

Good to see. Its weird seeing our guys coaching both sides.

I have always found it weird that as a top rugby nation you would want a foreign coach.

It is a matter of national pride, your own players, your own coach, your own values.

Ah well, what do I know.

Theres a couple that might have offered more than PDV perhaps but I know what you mean...theres a feeling that no overseas coach will ever know what its like to play in the ****** jersey, their heart wont be in it.

But look at Gats, theres no secret his ultimate aim is the AB's and the Welsh know that. But he's showed he can be just as resolute in his convictions under another flag. I know the day will come when we get our own overseas coach.

LondonTiger wrote:It makes sense really. It is very hard to be a foreign coach of an international team for any length of time. Firstly because they tend not to be immersed in the local culture, but secondly and more importantly because fans round on an overseas coach much quicker.

Though they deny it now, there was a clamour for Gatland's head by Welsh posters on the original 606 before the 2011 RWC started. All credit for the 2008 GS had dissipated, and 3 4th palce finishes in a row had left people very unhappy.

For now he is god, but should the AIs follow 2012's pattern expect to see people turn on him again.

You are being illogical there Tiger. Of course we criticised Gatland before 2011. It didn't seem to be working what we're we supposed to do have faith or bury our heads in the sand? What's this site for anyway? I rather object to your tone it suggests hypocrisy. So I'm not denying it in fact I rather hoped for the wooden spoon. To get rid of him. I'm not saying I was wrong then you play it as you see it. Like all good coaches Gats expects flak when things aren't working but he weathered the storm and brought Wales in frm the cold and introduced many of the fantastic players we have now. What is the point of being a supporter if you don't care or dare to have an opiinion? Does it count? Probably not but if enough people hold the same view it might. Ever read The Wisdom of Crowds'? So Tiger you probably agree with much of this maybe choose your words a bit more carefully next time.

Dontheman wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:It makes sense really. It is very hard to be a foreign coach of an international team for any length of time. Firstly because they tend not to be immersed in the local culture, but secondly and more importantly because fans round on an overseas coach much quicker.

Though they deny it now, there was a clamour for Gatland's head by Welsh posters on the original 606 before the 2011 RWC started. All credit for the 2008 GS had dissipated, and 3 4th palce finishes in a row had left people very unhappy.

For now he is god, but should the AIs follow 2012's pattern expect to see people turn on him again.

You are being illogical there Tiger. Of course we criticised Gatland before 2011. It didn't seem to be working what we're we supposed to do have faith or bury our heads in the sand? What's this site for anyway? I rather object to your tone it suggests hypocrisy. So I'm not denying it in fact I rather hoped for the wooden spoon. To get rid of him. I'm not saying I was wrong then you play it as you see it. Like all good coaches Gats expects flak when things aren't working but he weathered the storm and brought Wales in frm the cold and introduced many of the fantastic players we have now. What is the point of being a supporter if you don't care or dare to have an opiinion? Does it count? Probably not but if enough people hold the same view it might. Ever read The Wisdom of Crowds'? So Tiger you probably agree with much of this maybe choose your words a bit more carefully next time.

Don, why is it illogical what LT is saying?

He is merely echoing what he has seen on the boards, rightly or wrongly that is human nature. Rugby has always been a sport filled with emotion, I bet each and everyone of us has said things one week and changed our tune the next.

Biltong wrote:

Dontheman wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:It makes sense really. It is very hard to be a foreign coach of an international team for any length of time. Firstly because they tend not to be immersed in the local culture, but secondly and more importantly because fans round on an overseas coach much quicker.

Though they deny it now, there was a clamour for Gatland's head by Welsh posters on the original 606 before the 2011 RWC started. All credit for the 2008 GS had dissipated, and 3 4th palce finishes in a row had left people very unhappy.

For now he is god, but should the AIs follow 2012's pattern expect to see people turn on him again.

You are being illogical there Tiger. Of course we criticised Gatland before 2011. It didn't seem to be working what we're we supposed to do have faith or bury our heads in the sand? What's this site for anyway? I rather object to your tone it suggests hypocrisy. So I'm not denying it in fact I rather hoped for the wooden spoon. To get rid of him. I'm not saying I was wrong then you play it as you see it. Like all good coaches Gats expects flak when things aren't working but he weathered the storm and brought Wales in frm the cold and introduced many of the fantastic players we have now. What is the point of being a supporter if you don't care or dare to have an opiinion? Does it count? Probably not but if enough people hold the same view it might. Ever read The Wisdom of Crowds'? So Tiger you probably agree with much of this maybe choose your words a bit more carefully next time.

Don, why is it illogical what LT is saying?

He is merely echoing what he has seen on the boards, rightly or wrongly that is human nature. Rugby has always been a sport filled with emotion, I bet each and everyone of us has said things one week and changed our tune the next.

Count me in on that one!

I think a local coach may have had a touch more leeway than Gatland received then, though yes by the 3rd dissapointing season people would have been clamouring for anyone to go no matter who they were.

I reckon we gave Andy Robinson far more leeway than we would have done if an overseas coach had overseen the shambles he presided over.

Of course Bilt. But changing your tune as I have myself is not the same as denying you whistled it in the first place

Dontheman wrote:Of course Bilt. But changing your tune as I have myself is not the same as denying you whistled it in the first place

It's a case of "if the shoe fits, wear it"

You may not be guilty of it mate, but I can bet you now, there will be plenty.

Any way I apologise if I upset you Don, I agree with what Biltong has said above.

Fair enough.

the problem for foreign coaches is that as soon as things go bad people start saying... oh they're only in it for the money etc or using it as a stepping stone for their career and when things go bad they'll be off. It all adds up eventually.

He'll make them a better side but come the big tournaments they will still suffer. If you can't compete upfront then someone will knock you out eventually. They do well vs. route 1 sides generally but no one could live with the dominance we saw on Saturday, not even the ABs (although they wouldn't have been dominated so but still).

Andy Robinson did get a lot of leeway. But then again the Scots Union gave him plenty too.

I echo Taylor and Biltong, it's odd watching any Int team get coached by a foreigner, to me it makes sense that you'd want your own throughout the whole set up from the A team upwards.

Anyway Ewan McKenzie should be a good choice, although it's a couple of seasons late of his very best results i'm sure he has a few sneaky ideas up his sleeve.

I guess we'll see the Genia/Cooper combo come back in to play now as well which is all good   Question is what'll happen to JOC? Before Lele was played i'd have had James at 12 but now that shirt is filled, 15 is Beale's to lose so it's either 11 opposite Big F or the 23 shirt again.

Ioane has a very good understanding with Cooper. Difficult to drop him for O'Connor.... I think O'Connor needs to shore up his kicking and look towards the 12-13 positions myself.

The simple truth is Mackenzie can bring some home truths to his side. It seems the Oz side and fans have had what seems a generation of an external at the top with Deans, running the show.

The more I think about it the familiarity of a homegrown ozzie at the helm the more it concerns me. Deans always painted this fragmented picture with the ozzie side...'who's side is he on' both camps might be asking.

MacKenzie on the other hand can draw motivation from knowing what it means to be a true blue ozzie, an ocker with a faair dinkum, geeeeday moite swagger and whatever else is considered part of the ozzie culture. This in itself will ceate the culture shift that they just might need...

now I'm starting to worry... 

LondonTiger wrote:It makes sense really. It is very hard to be a foreign coach of an international team for any length of time. Firstly because they tend not to be immersed in the local culture, but secondly and more importantly because fans round on an overseas coach much quicker.

I get your point but when you do a tally...England kinda kills the argument,stone dead. France a little too. How many English coaches have England gone through since 2001?

SecretFly wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:It makes sense really. It is very hard to be a foreign coach of an international team for any length of time. Firstly because they tend not to be immersed in the local culture, but secondly and more importantly because fans round on an overseas coach much quicker.

I get your point but when you do a tally...England kinda kills the argument,stone dead.  France a little too.  How many English coaches have England gone through since 2001?

Yes, but they were pretty diabolical in their time as coach either in terms of tactics, results or relationships with the players (that goes for both English and French, there also aren't any foreign coaches of those countries (I don't think unless someone has slipped my mind) to compare with, its possible England fans would have rounded on a foreign coach even quicker. There also appears to be a preference at the top for an English coach hence Lancaster over White etc.

Think White would have been given the job if he'd put his hand up for it when Lancaster was only appointed to the interim coaching role.

If you look at the coaches who have succeeded Woodward, who was in any case more of a chief executive with the knack of surrounding himself with excellent specialist coaches, it has been more a case of the RFU making a series of bad decisions than there having been no alternative.

Robinson was an excellent number 2/forwards coach, but it was soon apparent that he was out of his depth/unable to maintain a cool, dispassionate head in the top job. Was kept on a year too long. Ashton, by contrast, who picked up the reins when most of the great side of 03 had gone, was treated abysmallyor a fine effort of shoring up d papering over the cracks. Another dismal decision followed, when a man who had never coached before was given the top job for reasons that can only have been based on sentiment.

It's not as though other English candidates weren't available during these toings and froings, either. If there really hadn't been anyone else qualified to do the job, then by all means, pick the best candidate from anywhere else. Similarly, McKenzie has been available for some while and must necessarily have a greater passion, beyond purely professional pride, for the success his country than a man who had just lost out on the top job in his own land.

It doesn't mean that a foreign coach should never do the job, although I can't see it ever happening in New Zealand. Where there is a good domestic choice, however, it surely makes sense to use it - at least you only have rugby reasons to fall back on if he proves to be inadequate for the task.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Think White would have been given the job if he'd put his hand up for it when Lancaster was only appointed to the interim coaching role.

If you look at the coaches who have succeeded Woodward, who was in any case more of a chief executive with the knack of surrounding himself with excellent specialist coaches, it has been more a case of the RFU making a series of bad decisions than there having been no alternative.

Robinson was an excellent number 2/forwards coach, but it was soon apparent that he was out of his depth/unable to maintain a cool, dispassionate head in the top job. Was kept on a year too long. Ashton, by contrast, who picked up the reins when most of the great side of 03 had gone, was treated abysmallyor a fine effort of shoring up d papering over the cracks. Another dismal decision followed, when a man who had never coached before was given the top job for reasons that can only have been based on sentiment.

It's not as though other English candidates weren't available during these toings and froings, either. If there really hadn't been anyone else qualified to do the job, then by all means, pick the best candidate from anywhere else. Similarly, McKenzie has been available for some while and must necessarily have a greater passion, beyond purely professional pride, for the success his country than a man who had just lost out on the top job in his own land.

It doesn't mean that a foreign coach should never do the job, although I can't see it ever happening in New Zealand. Where there is a good domestic choice, however, it surely makes sense to use it - at least you only have rugby reasons to fall back on if he proves to be inadequate for the task.

 Has every forgotten that under Ashton we were doing terribly until the players revolted and took over during the world cup? Ashton was an appalling lead guy, same as with Robinson.

Poor old Ashton - I can't help wondering how much the tale of the 2007 players' revolt has become mythologised since the event. Even if absolutely true, Ashton deserves some credit for listening, which is, after all, a part of the remit.

To damn him so utterly also leaves out the progress made under Ashton in 2008, when England played some excellent stuff to beat France in Paris and Ireland at Twickenham. The Wales match that year could, and arguably should, also have been won - England were the better side for a good stretch of that game. It seemed a poor reward to be ditched for the untested former lock and nothing more than a gratuitous insult for Ashton to be offered the sop of Head of the Academy instead. I certainly wouldn't put him anywhere near Robinson in the league of incompetence.

Wish him the best of luck. Great to have an aussie back at the helm, specially one that has won a few honours as a player and coach, and was a good prop in his day.

Tough luck on Robbie Deans though, he had heapsa injuries and a fragmented player's morals (sp?), but he had long enough to get a good side up. Maybe he knew the writing was on the wall for him, even if he had won the series, think it'll only be to the next defeat when he would have felt the axe, hard I guess to do your job in an atmosphere like that.

Well excitement back again. Wouldn't have minded JW going for the job and getting it, but happier with an aussie coach I think. did JW actually apply for the job? Didn't think he did. Also maybe the players will play with a bit more unity and fire under Ewen.

Roll on the RC!!!

captain carrantuohil wrote:Poor old Ashton - I can't help wondering how much the tale of the 2007 players' revolt has become mythologised since the event. Even if absolutely true, Ashton deserves some credit for listening, which is, after all, a part of the remit.

To damn him so utterly also leaves out the progress made under Ashton in 2008, when England played some excellent stuff to beat France in Paris and Ireland at Twickenham. The Wales match that year could, and arguably should, also have been won - England were the better side for a good stretch of that game. It seemed a poor reward to be ditched for the untested former lock and nothing more than a gratuitous insult for Ashton to be offered the sop of Head of the Academy instead. I certainly wouldn't put him anywhere near Robinson in the league of incompetence.

 France were in disarray. Since 2007 beating them has hardly been a sign of progress. The Wales game is a perfect sign of why I don't rate him as a headman. After the game he said that he told the players more of the same in second half. Even forgetting the fact we would have 3 locks and no open sides, was he not expecting the Welsh to up their game?

That and he rushed league players in too quickly.

Regarding the 'mythology' of the 2007 World Cup, why they were playing like clueless idiots and then reverted to type of 10 man rugby. And it did OK.

This means that he won't be in the next Star Wars movie then?

Will Robbie Deans looking for a new job?

whocares wrote:Will Robbie Deans looking for a new job?

He could go back to the farm I suppose. Farming doesn't pay as well as coaching mind you.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

whocares wrote:Will Robbie Deans looking for a new job?

He could go back to the farm I suppose. Farming doesn't pay as well as coaching mind you.

Though if the Crusaders get knocked out in the 1st round of the SXV playoffs Todd Blackadder might get the chop ... 5 years without a title is a long time in Crusader country

I feel a bit sorry for Deans, but a 58% win record with losses to Scotland (x2), Samoa, Ireland (loss and a draw), England in OZ, third place world cup, losing Lions series, was too many negatives. It could so easily have been 2-0 after 2 tests and he would still have a job though - and who missed all the goals in the first test? The burger boys. Since the WC he had no luck - the injuries in 2012 were just incredible and tended to continue this year with no Pocock, TPN, Higginbotham, Timani, Ioane - left the forwards without depth. But in the end his selections brought him undone. He backed the burger boys this year and they let him down. And he was stubborn with continually picking guys either past their best or who simply were not up to it: Alexander, Giteau, Horne, McCalman, Hodges, Barnes, Phipps, and the cast of thousand from the Waratahs. A good lesson is, select on form, not on your favourites. Hope McKenzie has learnt from Deans' errors.

Rob B wrote:I feel a bit sorry for Deans, but a 58% win record with losses to Scotland (x2), Samoa, Ireland (loss and a draw), England in OZ, third place world cup, losing Lions series, was too many negatives. It could so easily have been 2-0 after 2 tests and he would still have a job though - and who missed all the goals in the first test? The burger boys. Since the WC he had no luck - the injuries in 2012 were just incredible and tended to continue this year with no Pocock, TPN, Higginbotham, Timani, Ioane - left the forwards without depth. But in the end his selections brought him undone. He backed the burger boys this year and they let him down. And he was stubborn with continually picking guys either past their best or who simply were not up to it: Alexander, Giteau, Horne, McCalman, Hodges, Barnes, Phipps, and the cast of thousand from the Waratahs. A good lesson is, select on form, not on your favourites. Hope McKenzie has learnt from Deans' errors.

I agree to some extent. I think he's lost the support of the Australian rugby playing public. By all accounts the decision to drop him was made before the Lions tests, and he wasn't going to hold his job even if he had won. I don't think his style of play suits the Aussie psyc. The discipline issues with key wallabies and ingrained political infighting within the ARU were always simmering.

I think the losses to Scotland and Samoa undermined him, but 2 of those are partially the result of poor planning by the ARU. In terms of the 58% winning rate. It's less than the Aussie public want, but still greater than all sides outside of NZ and South Africa. Their record against most teams is better than any northern team and in most cases better than SA. He has won the majority of the games against South Africa, France, England, Wales and Ireland. The issue is that he's failed against NZ, given that 1/4 games Australia plays is against the all Blacks it's going to lower the winning percentage..

blackcanelion wrote:

Rob B wrote:I feel a bit sorry for Deans, but a 58% win record with losses to Scotland (x2), Samoa, Ireland (loss and a draw), England in OZ, third place world cup, losing Lions series, was too many negatives. It could so easily have been 2-0 after 2 tests and he would still have a job though - and who missed all the goals in the first test? The burger boys. Since the WC he had no luck - the injuries in 2012 were just incredible and tended to continue this year with no Pocock, TPN, Higginbotham, Timani, Ioane - left the forwards without depth. But in the end his selections brought him undone. He backed the burger boys this year and they let him down. And he was stubborn with continually picking guys either past their best or who simply were not up to it: Alexander, Giteau, Horne, McCalman, Hodges, Barnes, Phipps, and the cast of thousand from the Waratahs. A good lesson is, select on form, not on your favourites. Hope McKenzie has learnt from Deans' errors.

I agree to some extent. I think he's lost the support of the Australian rugby playing public. By all accounts the decision to drop him was made before the Lions tests, and he wasn't going to hold his job even if he had won. I don't think his style of play suits the Aussie psyc. The discipline issues with key wallabies and ingrained political infighting within the ARU were always simmering.

I think the losses to Scotland and Samoa undermined him, but 2 of those are partially the result of poor planning by the ARU. In terms of the 58% winning rate. It's less than the Aussie public want, but still greater than all sides outside of NZ and South Africa. Their record against most teams is better than any northern team and in most cases better than SA. He has won the majority of the games against South Africa, France, England, Wales and Ireland. The issue is that he's failed against NZ, given that 1/4 games Australia plays is against the all Blacks it's going to lower the winning percentage..

Love it...the burger boys...4am visit to the burger bar ends Deans' career...The 2011 win in Brisbane was when they were at their very best- its also from there when they went downhill, playing all their guns every match...

Robbie Deans is a Canterbury hero. He really should receive a ticker tape parade when he comes home and a knighthood on the New Years list for services to NZ rugby. 74 tests spanning 5 years. Only 3 wins against NZ but undermined SA with a superior strike rate. Kept Kurtley Beale's minibar fully stocked and left a trail of party pills to a burger joint this Lions series. My only regret was that he didn't tone it down a little and tried to make it to the next RWC. We could've done with his strategic loss to send Australia to our side of the draw and springboard us into the final.

Oops. I've said too much...