Will Lancaster learn anything from the Lions win?

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Or will he blindly keep calm and carry on? Some tips from me are:-

#1. Power blended with pace wins rugby matches. Soften them up with the bludgeon and then apply the finish with pace.

This means:-
1. Tom Youngs is too under-powered to start a test match. Much better off the bench.
2. Corbs is the real deal at loose-head.
3. Cole is a little under-powered at scrum time but may get better. Hopefully.
4. Croft was found out by Gatland. He is lightweight and goes absent from the coal-face too often. Let him go like Gatland did.
5. Stop playing people out of position FFS. Put wingers on the wing, #8s at #8 and full-backs at full-back for goodness sake.
6. Let Chris Ashton go even though you think he's a nice boy. He has had his chance to show he can tackle and failed.
7. You must power-up the back-line. Will Greenwood stood well above both Roberts and Davies when he interviewed them. You must find some big boys and develop them. You only have 2 years left.

Oh and lastly, under-estimate the power of the Welsh team at your peril. They were magnificent in Aus.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

but a little weaker throwing

Yappy...how many of our Hookers do we constantly say that about.

Lindsay, Buchanan, even Tom Youngs , though he seems to be working on it.
I'd like to see Lindsay really sort that area of his game out...

Heres the big question....Will Jamie George get a game for Saracens this season?

There was an interesting section in one of last seasons Tigers programs. Youngs explains that he has found matchday throwing the hardest thing to learn. In training he can be perfect, but the stresses of scrummaging make the back muscles tight and lead to spasms (after one European away match he had to crawl off the plane as everything seized up). This tightness makes throwing hard, but is difficult to replicate in training. With experience he feels he is improving.

I can understand that, especially with the fatigue, noise, stress, pressure and extra knocks that I bet you don't get in training. Just shows how truly incredible Lee Mears is (or how little scrummaging he did...).

Must admit, it sounds horrendous being a hooker (try not to snigger). You could understand parents being reticent to allow their kids to play in the position.

Tom Youngs seems to have a lot of problems with his back. Is that due to the change of position and not "callused" enough ie not used to it.

Hope it doesnt affect him long term.

Likewise Corbisieru seems to be a concern with his constant injury worries.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

but a little weaker throwing

Yappy...how many of our Hookers do we constantly say that about.

Lindsay, Buchanan, even Tom Youngs , though he seems to be working on it.
I'd like to see Lindsay really sort that area of his game out...

Heres the big question....Will Jamie George get a game for Saracens this season?

Yes Jamie George will get game time because Brits is banned for the 1st 3 games of the AP season.

Unfortunately so far Brits has not benefitted from the warm up matches counting like in Hartley and Cockerill's bans.

No consistency again. Sigh....

Geordie, seen the 7's squad we've put out? I've posted up on the Falcons thread.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Tom Youngs seems to have a lot of problems with his back. Is that due to the change of position and not "callused" enough ie not used to it.

Hope it doesnt affect him long term.

Likewise Corbisieru seems to be a concern with his constant injury worries.

Yeah, in the main his back issues have been in large part due to not being "battle hardened". As his body acclimitises he seems to be coping better. A number of the "iffy" throwers are converted back row players.

Lindsay and Tom Youngs were centres LT...thats quite a big change of position.

Did I hear someone mention the EPS is out on Thurs? And is this the one where Lancaster can make unlimited changes?

GeordieFalcon wrote:Tom Youngs seems to have a lot of problems with his back. Is that due to the change of position and not "callused" enough ie not used to it.

Hope it doesnt affect him long term.

Likewise Corbisieru seems to be a concern with his constant injury worries.

 I think a lot of Corbisiero's knee troubles are genetic to be fair, but over time they've been confounded by heavy squats. Apparently he keeps having them flushed out every few months. I think with the right care and consideration over his playing amount, he should be ok. Unfortunately, I think that possibly means he won't be a frequent starter for Saints.

Im very concerned with Corbs. He looks the real deal...id go so far to say in the top 3 LH's in the world...but he might be spending more time on the physio table.

Ultimately i guess we are fortunate that we have Mako and Marler coming through...but personally i think they're both quite some way behind Corbs...

ChequeredJersey wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Randon question. Any Quins fans out there know anything about Rob Buchanan? Is he any good? Likely to play for England?

He is good, still 2nd choice but we reckon he will at least split duties with Gray. He's better in the loose and contact and Gray is a better set piece expert, but both are good hookers. He went on Tour to Argentina so could play, but Youngs and Webber and Hartley are ahead of him so it's possible rather than probable. He will play for Saxons at least. Why do you ask?

Was hanging out with his sister for a few days recently. Very nice girl.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Im very concerned with Corbs. He looks the real deal...id go so far to say in the top 3 LH's in the world...but he might be spending more time on the physio table.

Ultimately i guess we are fortunate that we have Mako and Marler coming through...but personally i think they're both quite some way behind Corbs...

 Yeh, it is a little worrying, but I think he can be well managed. He's shed a lot of weight, so that's immediately a lot of pressure off his knees already.

Here's to hoping!

Lets hope losing the weight hasnt affected his ability in the tight. Didnt seem to in Oz mind.

I remember when Corbs left Irish, Booth came out and said good luck to saints in keeping him fit, and that the knee condition he has is degenerative. Sour grapes, or a genuine warning that he won't last much longer at the top level? Unfortunately I think its the latter

Yeah im inclined to think its the latter.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Lets hope losing the weight hasnt affected his ability in the tight. Didnt seem to in Oz mind.

 Definitely didn't seem to. He actually seemed a lot more agile in the tight!

belovedfrosties wrote:I remember when Corbs left Irish, Booth came out and said good luck to saints in keeping him fit, and that the knee condition he has is degenerative.  Sour grapes, or a genuine warning that he won't last much longer at the top level?  Unfortunately I think its the latter

 Corbs countered this with a pretty good interview. He believed that it was just sour grapes, and that his knee was ok as long as he took precautions. He said that he wanted to prove Booth wrong by performing well with England, and then he got a Lions call up and became the saviour of the third test. Round one to Corbs.

For Corbs I think it all depends on how he is (mis)handled. I don't know any details about him except what we have all read in the media. Hopefully when I get home I can get some good info.

But for now, I think he looks OK, just watching him run, push off and, most importantly walk. Watch a gent walk at the start of a match and again at the end. Give leeway that he is tired, and sometimes we can glean good insight whether there is residual on on-going knee or ankle damage. For Lions, in the third test, he seemed OK on that admittedly low tech and anachronistic diagnostic tool.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Lindsay and Tom Youngs were centres LT...thats quite a big change of position.

It is, but the body shapes aren't necessarily miles apart. The Fainga'a brothers are twins. Anthony is a centre while Saia plays hooker. There's over 10kg difference in weight between the two, though, so conditioning plays a big role.

It was Brian Smith that made the comment about Corbs' knee injury, and it was in early January before the Northampton contract was formally announced. Slight suspicion that he was just putting a scare story out there to suitors because they were worried about losing him. Corbs wasn't happy.

yappysnap wrote:Did I hear someone mention the EPS is out on Thurs? And is this the one where Lancaster can make unlimited changes?

Yes, he can name anyone he wants. It is the January refresh where his hands are tied a little. For International windows he can call up any player of course, but for all the added training and for removing them from club matches he is restricted to those in the EPS.

Come on the LT...whats your predicitons...both for the Seniors and Saxons...so we can pull it apart  

How many in each squad? 35..32?

LondonTiger wrote:... For International windows he can call up any player of course, but for all the added training and for removing them from club matches he is restricted to those in the EPS.

That now seems completely obvious but, somehow, I hadn't really twigged it. Given how much importance coaches attach to training, though, it's difficult to imagine anyone reaching outside the EPS for a player. Injury would be the most obvious opportunity but I think EPS rules actually allow replacements to be named to the EPS in that case anyway. It would have to be a situation where no-one was injured but someone completely off the radar suddenly pressed their case.

Launchbury did i think Rugby Fan...

It's a 33 man squad now I believe. Last year he went for a 17/15 split for the 32 man squad. I think this is likely to be basically it, but can't work out which two I think he'll shed. Possibly Clark and one of the full backs or fly halves?

Forwards (20):

Corbisiero, Vunipola, Marler
Youngs, Hartley, Webber
Cole, Wilson, Thomas
Launchbury, Lawes, Parling, Attwood
Wood, Croft, Robshaw, Kvesic, Clark
Morgan, Vunipola

Backs (15)

Youngs, Care, Dickson
Farrell, Burns, Flood
Barritt, Twelvetrees, Tuilagi
Yarde, Wade, Ashton, Foden, Brown, Goode

Also, The Sun reckon Wood is going to be named captain, which would be surprisingly early, even if it's what we expect to happen by the autumn anyway.

Wood? Thats an interesting one...bit of a kick in the cajones for Robshaw mind...no lions tour then gets dropped as captain of England...with the ominous shadow of Kvesic, Fraser, Wallace etc and other "natural 7's" on the horizon he could even lose his spot in the team.

Is the first of Lancs "big calls" we increasingly wondered if he was capable of making.

My EPS

Forwards (19):

Corbisiero, Vunipola, Marler
Youngs, Hartley, Webber
Cole, Wilson, Thomas
Launchbury, Lawes, Parling, Attwood
Wood, Croft, Robshaw, Kvesic,
Morgan, Vunipola

Backs (16)

Youngs, Care, 3rd 9...???
Farrell, Burns, Flood
Barritt, Twelvetrees, Tuilagi, Eastmond
Yarde, Wade, Ashton, May
Foden, Brown,

Robshaw would use the snub as an incentive

That would be an interesting call. I don't think it would be a bad one per se but it does pave the way for Robshaw's place to come under some serious scrutiny.

If I was advising Robshaw i'd encourage him to smell the coffee and move back to 6. It would accommodate Wallace at Quins and he'd have more of a chance to secure a place.

I'd be really surprised if Robshaw lost the captaincy, and quite honestly I can't see it happening. He really grew into the role after his AI mistakes. He's a grafter that leads from the front, and is clearly well respected within the squad. As good as Wood is, I don't think Lancaster would risk rupturing his team ethos by removing Robshaw as captin right now. Two leaders in the backrow works incredibly well I reckon, as both him and Wood lead from the front and seem to lift the others.

GeordieFalcon wrote:My EPS

Forwards (19):

Corbisiero, Vunipola, Marler
Youngs, Hartley, Webber
Cole, Wilson, Thomas
Launchbury, Lawes, Parling, Attwood
Wood, Croft, Robshaw, Kvesic,
Morgan, Vunipola

Backs (16)

Youngs, Care, *ROBSON
Farrell, Burns, Flood
Barritt, Twelvetrees, Tuilagi, Eastmond
Yarde, Wade, Ashton, May
Foden, Brown,

Beat me to it GF. Robson is the lad i'd bring on. If Micky Young has a good season he's got half a chance.

I confess to not knowing much about him but isn't Robson a little similar in style to Danny and Benny?

I was thinking of Robson actually CHj.

My thoughts were Youngs and Care are the established 2..and i dont really rate the rest. So id rather take a punt on a youngster and give him time with the seniors...

Id be surprised if Robshaw lost his spot aswell. He's been fantastic on the pitch regardless of anything else.

bluestonevedder wrote:I'd be really surprised if Robshaw lost the captaincy, and quite honestly I can't see it happening. He really grew into the role after his AI mistakes. He's a grafter that leads from the front, and is clearly well respected within the squad. As good as Wood is, I don't think Lancaster would risk rupturing his team ethos by removing Robshaw as captin right now. Two leaders in the backrow works incredibly well I reckon, as both him and Wood lead from the front and seem to lift the others.

I agree in many respect bluestone but I think the crucial issue is this: Lancs sees the future of the backrow as Wood set in stone at 6, Morgan set in stone at 8 and I think he realises the need for better balance at 7. He clearly values Kvesic's work highly and Fraser is really pressing a case. Both of those guys would give better balance than Robshaw.

ChequeredJersey wrote:I confess to not knowing much about him but isn't Robson a little similar in style to Danny and Benny?

In the main I would say yes CJ but Robson can give some excellent service he just needs to work on his consistency and game management. Other thank Wigglesworth I can't think of many other starkly contrasting 9's to Danny and Youngs?

Chjw131 wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:I'd be really surprised if Robshaw lost the captaincy, and quite honestly I can't see it happening. He really grew into the role after his AI mistakes. He's a grafter that leads from the front, and is clearly well respected within the squad. As good as Wood is, I don't think Lancaster would risk rupturing his team ethos by removing Robshaw as captin right now. Two leaders in the backrow works incredibly well I reckon, as both him and Wood lead from the front and seem to lift the others.

I agree in many respect bluestone but I think the crucial issue is this: Lancs sees the future of the backrow as Wood set in stone at 6, Morgan set in stone at 8 and I think he realises the need for better balance at 7. He clearly values Kvesic's work highly and Fraser is really pressing a case. Both of those guys would give better balance than Robshaw.

 Yep, I agree. I think we will see a few varying combinations in the near future. However, I think our best backrow is still Wood, Robshaw and Morgan. It seemed so well balanced over the AIs, and we were all but lost when Morgan was ruled out injured. A little more time persisting with these 3 could reap some serious rewards I think!

Kvesic is a really impressive young player, and a proper jackal on the floor. I think we could see a bit of a battle between him and Croft for the bench spot over the next few seasons to be honest.

Well this is pretty much for me going to have 90-95% of the players that will go to the WC so its going to have to be a pretty good one.

Chjw131 wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:I'd be really surprised if Robshaw lost the captaincy, and quite honestly I can't see it happening. He really grew into the role after his AI mistakes. He's a grafter that leads from the front, and is clearly well respected within the squad. As good as Wood is, I don't think Lancaster would risk rupturing his team ethos by removing Robshaw as captin right now. Two leaders in the backrow works incredibly well I reckon, as both him and Wood lead from the front and seem to lift the others.

I agree in many respect bluestone but I think the crucial issue is this: Lancs sees the future of the backrow as Wood set in stone at 6, Morgan set in stone at 8 and I think he realises the need for better balance at 7. He clearly values Kvesic's work highly and Fraser is really pressing a case. Both of those guys would give better balance than Robshaw.

Would they though?

Why would he bother naming a captain now?  There's nothing to gain and you restrict yourself with regards to selection 4 months down the line.  I think Wood is a great choice as captain and he's who I'd choose if playing well, but why not wait til the options have seen some action before setting anything in stone?  It would be an incredibly stupid thing to do.  If he did name a captain now, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see that player show poor form between now and the first match, leading the papers to call for him not to be selected.  Because that's just how it goes.

On the third scrum half, I don't really see any benefit in having one.  There isn't anyone making themselves undroppable and given how good the first two guys are, I can't see a third option getting much meaningful game time.  Youngs and Care should and will both be in the 23 whenever available.  If either is unavailable then call someone up from the Saxons squad.  I really like Robson and he is definitely one for the future but it's too soon to have him in the EPS.  Ben Spencer is another young 9 that I like, and Joe Simpson may get another chance at some point.  Then we have the experience club players Dickson (x2) and Wigglesworth.  No one demanding an EPS place though so might as well use the place on another position where the top choices are less clear cut.

This is different to positions like hooker and loosehead where we have 3 good options and all deserve their place in the squad.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Chjw131 wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:I'd be really surprised if Robshaw lost the captaincy, and quite honestly I can't see it happening. He really grew into the role after his AI mistakes. He's a grafter that leads from the front, and is clearly well respected within the squad. As good as Wood is, I don't think Lancaster would risk rupturing his team ethos by removing Robshaw as captin right now. Two leaders in the backrow works incredibly well I reckon, as both him and Wood lead from the front and seem to lift the others.

I agree in many respect bluestone but I think the crucial issue is this: Lancs sees the future of the backrow as Wood set in stone at 6, Morgan set in stone at 8 and I think he realises the need for better balance at 7. He clearly values Kvesic's work highly and Fraser is really pressing a case. Both of those guys would give better balance than Robshaw.

Would they though?

At the moment they're embrionic in international terms but on the whole I think either of those players would give that BR a nice balance. I lean more towards Kvesic as he provides a better carrying option.

Don't get me wrong at present i'd still have Robshaw at 7 and he's given some excellent service in that role. He is limited though in that he's not pacy, not as proficient as the likes of Fraser on the ground and doesn't carry particularly well. What he does do nicely (over and above his enormous work rate) is handle well and that could be something he can add to.

I'd like to see Kvesic coming off the bench in a couple of the AIs but that's weighed against the need to have some impact on the bench. Contrary to some whilst Croft might deserve his starting/bench spot I think he's one or the other. If he starts then fine but he doesn't have the impact to be a bencher. I'd rather see Billy V there for impact.

I'm not ruling Robshaw out but to move on one has to accept his limitations and adapt accordingly. He either works on some more openside skills, particularly his handling and jackling or moves back to 6 where he could be superb.

OK, but at Premiership level his handling is superb already! We'll see where Connor plays him anyway

Robshaw could be playing club rugby at 6, and Wood at 7 in the coming months.

Could be. Think Robshaw will play a mix of 6 and 7 this season for us

LondonTiger wrote:Robshaw could be playing club rugby at 6, and Wood at 7 in the coming months.

This seems very logical. Finally aligned with England????

If that happens will Wood get accusations of not being a "natural 7"? The phrase which always sounds like a Shania Twayne song

I wouldn't want to see Wood at 7 for England. Its 6 or nothing in my opinion.

Lets not forget Robshaw had more turnovers than all the supposed top 3 7's during the Ai's (I think it was that) so he's very capable of doing it.

At present for me the first game is 6 Wood 7 Robshaw 8 Morgan

However...IF Will Fraser or Kvesic or indeed Wallace, or even Andy Saul  put in performances of a 7 that are simply outstanding and will add to Englands progression then so be it.

No one player is bigger than the team. To move forward you sacrifice players to bring in better ones.

I will monitor with interest...

A back row of Wood, Robshaw and a proper 8 isn't conventional, but it is balanced. Robshaw and Wood are two of the best all round flankers on the scene at the moment. Because they both have the ability to play 6 or 7, they cover all the bases. South Africa won the RWC with a similar combination.

ChequeredJersey wrote:If that happens will Wood get accusations of not being a "natural 7"? The phrase which always sounds like a Shania Twayne song

She looks better than he does.

Yeah I agree with that Pourfour...and we won the WC with two 7's...so its more about fitting the right players not just putting a 7 in for the sake of it.

Don't forget Croft aswell...not popular with some (including myself) but he brings supreme lineout skills, when our Second Rows maybe don't quite offer that just yet (im not convinced Parling is top class there)

He also offers so much out from the tight including tackling in the line and cover tackling. With him there Robshaw gives us a more solid player on the other flank and means the other guys like Cole, Corbs, launchbury, Parling, Attwood etc can do their duties in the rucks and breakdowns...