Ashes: First Test

by KP_fan Wed 10 Jul 2013, 9:54 am

First topic message reminder :

It's weird...no thread on T1 yet
Ashton Agar will play is the breaking news.

by KP_fan Wed 10 Jul 2013, 8:51 pm

msp83 wrote:I remember Broad getting some real strong compliments from Sir Geoff B for his batting skills and we all know that doesn't come easy at all. But Broad's batting has digressed badly in the last couple of years. I have seen him performing better with the ball after he scores a few runs. He played a nice little hand today, but that Pattinson strike on the shoulder seems to have meant more than it appeared at that point. If Broad doesn't bowl much tomorrow, it will be a huge blow for England and a massive challenge for captain Cook. He can't overwork Anderson, he can't overbowl Finn who's greatest asset is his pace coupled with his bounce, and long spells might not help too much in that regard. Swann has an even bigger role in that scenario, and young Joe, KP and Trott will have to step in at some point if the Australians start resisting.

i think cook alrteady overbowled anderson and finn today.......he should have given about 3 overs to Trott with the new ball.

He's gotta bear in mind if he loses god forbid either of anderson or finn early in the series......due to over-work.....it will be a huge blow...remmebr what happend to India when they lost Zaheer ?

by hodge Wed 10 Jul 2013, 10:26 pm

True but we have greater depth than India.

by mystiroakey Wed 10 Jul 2013, 10:35 pm

yeah in the bowling we do. onions, bres can both step in and are still test class

by JDizzle Wed 10 Jul 2013, 10:39 pm

Just watching the highlights now, good to see Finn bowling quickly again. Consistently around, and sometime over, the 90mph mark. Cracking stuff.

by KP_fan Wed 10 Jul 2013, 11:04 pm

hodge wrote:True but we have greater depth than India.

have it but do not use it.....is more apropriate

if the first bowler is down....who will come in....the mighty Besnan Whistle

who almost walked in in T1 in place of Finn

by mystiroakey Wed 10 Jul 2013, 11:21 pm

india would bite a batters arm off to have bres

by alfie Thu 11 Jul 2013, 4:10 am

KP_fan wrote:caught up on channel 5 in highlights what I had missed live.

--while there were a number of clean bolds during the day...Anderson's was the ball of the day.
althouhg it was hailed as one of the greatest deliveries by a number of commentators....it wasn't the first time I have seen this skill from anderson...to bring the ball in with the angle and drift and seam it away clean bowling a RHB......

Had seen him do it this a number of times starting about a decade ago under Hussian's captaincy......good to see him come so far without losing this skill or much of his pace.

--Broad's was the most pleasing little inning on eyes......he has natural gift with the bat....standing tall and punching throuhg the line...shame he can't bowl

--the diffrence between both sides so far...English batsman most of them got starts and threw it away....in contrast Australia's top order looked edgy and got out to good deliveries generally.

--the risk for England is when the ball loses shine....Aus's middle and lower order can all hit 30s and 40s and take the game 100 runs away from Engöland's paltry total

--Smith is the most amzing Aussie talent...one with X-factor...I say this again..this ashes might turn him into Aus mainstay and a star.

Well I really can't find anything to disagree about in that succcinct summary, KP_fan Shocked

...What is wrong with me ? Smile

by subhranshu.kumar.5 Thu 11 Jul 2013, 4:24 am

Well England are at the top now. But with a bowler short, rest of the Australian batsmen may attack the fifth bowler. Cook is really in difficult situation. Again looking at Smith he has gained a lot of matuarity and is playing sensibly. Every thing depend on him. Regarding hughes though he has not scored runs in his last series but still aussies hopes hangs in his hand. I am praying for no overcast today. With sun in the sky Seamers would find bit difficult to get the same swing that was there previous day...

by KP_fan Thu 11 Jul 2013, 7:30 am

mystiroakey wrote:india would bite a batters arm off to have bres

not these days. India has a pretty healthy crop of pace bowlers

In fact other than BD or Zim....I doubt if Bresnan will walk into any otehr test side as one of the four bowlers.

Sometimes some sides might play him as the 5th bowler......if he impresses enough with his batting abilities.

by mystiroakey Thu 11 Jul 2013, 7:32 am

you what.

by kingraf Thu 11 Jul 2013, 9:19 am

Bookmark... This is the series Siddles star turns into a Supernova. Ive been backing him for a while, and the rankings agree. Best pace bowler not named Steyn or Philander. Would make

by mystiroakey Thu 11 Jul 2013, 9:24 am

you what.

by **Fists of Fury** Thu 11 Jul 2013, 9:40 am

Kingraf you cannot be serious. Peter Siddle isn't even in the same street as James Anderson, for a start. He bowled some real filth yesterday that took wickets (though he did gain plenty of late outswing so credit for that).

by **seanmichaels** Thu 11 Jul 2013, 9:50 am

Siddle is a good bowler. In the mould of a McDermott / Hughes. Certainly not a McGrath, Lee, Gillespie level of quality.

by mystiroakey Thu 11 Jul 2013, 9:52 am

Sense prevails.

by kingraf Thu 11 Jul 2013, 9:54 am

Dead serious mate, counting this test, Jimmy has 49 sticks in his last 15 tests, for comparison, Steyn has 60 in 11. Philander 57 in 12. You wanna know Siddle's last 15 test wicket total?
64 wickets in fifteen tests

by mystiroakey Thu 11 Jul 2013, 9:58 am

King graf england have broad,finn and swan(key)

if others take wickets around you its very hard to take them all!!!

You have to include depth of teammates when discussings bowlers strengths..

swanny will allways take a bundle as well.

by VTR Thu 11 Jul 2013, 9:58 am

That's just fudging the stats to make him look better. He needs to sustain that level of wicket taking over a 2/3 year period then we can have this discussion. He could just be going through a purple patch.

A couple of years ago by being selective you could have made Bresnan the best all-rounder as he had a 7 or 8 Test purple patch.

by Guest Thu 11 Jul 2013, 10:01 am

kingraf wrote:Dead serious mate, counting this test, Jimmy has 49 sticks in his last 15 tests, for comparison, Steyn has 60 in 11. Philander 57 in 12. You wanna know Siddle's last 15 test wicket total?
64 wickets in fifteen tests

But all that shows is current form, not permanent class. Cricket history is littered with players who've achieved purple patches, then gone on to diddly squat. I bet Australia would swap Siddle for Anderson 7 days of the week.

by VTR Thu 11 Jul 2013, 10:03 am

Azzy Mahmood wrote:
kingraf wrote:Dead serious mate, counting this test, Jimmy has 49 sticks in his last 15 tests, for comparison, Steyn has 60 in 11. Philander 57 in 12. You wanna know Siddle's last 15 test wicket total?
64 wickets in fifteen tests
But all that shows is current form, not permanent class. Cricket history is littered with players who've achieved purple patches, then gone on to diddly squat. I bet Australia would swap Siddle for Anderson 7 days of the week.

Exactly, like when Steve Harmison became ranked number one in the world

by kingraf Thu 11 Jul 2013, 10:06 am

VTR - Swann took four wickets vs South Africa, why didnt Jimmy shine then?? Nine wickets at forty....

Swann wasnt in New Zealand ... Ten wickets at nearly forty...

Took nearly seventy deliveries a wicket vs West Indies...

by mystiroakey Thu 11 Jul 2013, 10:10 am

You what.

by Guest Thu 11 Jul 2013, 10:10 am

VTR wrote:
Azzy Mahmood wrote:
kingraf wrote:Dead serious mate, counting this test, Jimmy has 49 sticks in his last 15 tests, for comparison, Steyn has 60 in 11. Philander 57 in 12. You wanna know Siddle's last 15 test wicket total?
64 wickets in fifteen tests
But all that shows is current form, not permanent class. Cricket history is littered with players who've achieved purple patches, then gone on to diddly squat. I bet Australia would swap Siddle for Anderson 7 days of the week.

Exactly, like when Steve Harmison became ranked number one in the world

Hard to believe that ever happened, looking back...was there such a dearth of bowlers at the time, or was Harmy really actually good?

by kingraf Thu 11 Jul 2013, 10:11 am

What permanent class??? The guy took 80 tests to take 300 wickets!! It took Steyn 59. Lee only played 76 and had 310. Allan Donald only played 72 and had 330. Even Ntini got to 300 in 74.

by Scrumpy Thu 11 Jul 2013, 10:11 am

So it’s sunny at Trent Bridge already not good news for England, why did we chose to bat 1st, was Cook thinking like a batsman and not a Captain?

Surely the England set up would have had someone looking at the weather?

I'm not a expert but if I win the toss and it’s warm and cloudy then I bowl every time.

by Duty281 Thu 11 Jul 2013, 10:14 am

Have to get the Aussies out for under 200 today, and then bat like it's test match, not an ODI.

by kingraf Thu 11 Jul 2013, 10:16 am

VTR - I would say Harmy really was that good. Pity he had the emotional strength of a mollycoddled baby

by Guest Thu 11 Jul 2013, 10:17 am

kingraf wrote:What permanent class??? The guy took 80 tests to take 300 wickets!! It took Steyn 59. Lee only played 76 and had 310. Allan Donald only played 72 and had 330. Even Ntini got to 300 in 74.

300 wickets at Test level proves permanent class, regardless of how long it took him to get there.

by kingraf Thu 11 Jul 2013, 10:19 am

Anyway, big day for the Aussies... England will be smelling blood, but if Australia bat out 60 overs of today they will have a lead of 60-70... In a low scoring match, thats probably worth two-three wickets.

by kingraf Thu 11 Jul 2013, 10:21 am

Kallis is about twelve away... Should we rank him as an equal class bowler as Anderson when he does? After all, it is REGARDLESS....

by **seanmichaels** Thu 11 Jul 2013, 10:26 am

kingraf wrote:What permanent class??? The guy took 80 tests to take 300 wickets!! It took Steyn 59. Lee only played 76 and had 310. Allan Donald only played 72 and had 330. Even Ntini got to 300 in 74.

Anderson had a few years in the wilderness. This was entirely down to the England management changing his bowling action. If he'd not had that 2 or 3 year period he'd be pushing 400 wickets now.

by Guest Thu 11 Jul 2013, 10:27 am

Who's comparing bowlers? For any bowler to reach 300 Test wickets it is proof of permanent class. You can't reach that many without bowling a lot of overs and getting a lot of people out. If Siddle gets to 300 wickets, he'll have proved his class as well. But until then, you take the proven bowler over the semi-proven bowler 11 times out of 10.

by kingraf Thu 11 Jul 2013, 10:28 am

Poor Holding is just a semi-proven bowler then...

by kingraf Thu 11 Jul 2013, 10:32 am

Sean- thats speculation... You cant just give him 100 wickets! To do so, you would need him to average five wickets a test.... 49 in 15 is just over three a test.

by Guest Thu 11 Jul 2013, 10:35 am

kingraf wrote:Poor Holding is just a semi-proven bowler then...

Great way to back up your argument for Siddle, bring in someone whose career ended over 25 years ago Laugh

Siddle is on his way to being a top bowler. He's not there yet. Anderson is already there, regardless of current form (at least he's still taking wickets). If you set up a poll this morning, I reckon the vote would be 10% Siddle, 90% Anderson.

by kingraf Thu 11 Jul 2013, 10:46 am

The funny thing is, you talk about Siddle being the one with temporary form, when the stats bare a different story... Andersons golden period yielded 75 sticks in 15 test (Ashes 2010 - Pakistan 2011), either side of that, his record reads 'Back-up'

by KP_fan Thu 11 Jul 2013, 10:49 am

Matthew Hoggard at his best is the one who comes closest to mind in ccomparison with Siddle

by VTR Thu 11 Jul 2013, 10:49 am

kingraf wrote:VTR - I would say Harmy really was that good. Pity he had the emotional strength of a mollycoddled baby

He really wasn't that good though was he? He had all the attributes but as you say the mental side isn't there which is precisely why he isn't a great despite being number one at one point. He was good for 11 Tests in a row (From Windies away 2004 through the English summer) then bar one or two good performances average to rubbish after that.

by msp83 Thu 11 Jul 2013, 10:51 am

Siddle is a good bowler. As of now, he's not in the Lee/Gillespie class, though further consistent performances can get him there. Don't see the point of the comparison with James Anderson at this stage of his career.

by kingraf Thu 11 Jul 2013, 10:52 am

Since Pakistan 2011 - 20 tests 69 wickets

Before ashes 2010/11
48 tests 165 wickets

So 68 tests, 234 wickets outside of that.... The stats dont lie, Jimmy Anderson, outside a golden 18 months, is no more than good back-up..

by mystiroakey Thu 11 Jul 2013, 10:57 am

"is no more than good back-up"

laughing

by trebellbobaggins Thu 11 Jul 2013, 11:00 am

Failing to take some more wickets last night and also putting ourselves in of cloudy day could burn us badly today,

This day looks perfect for Aussie to get a few hundred and out this out of sight.

Odds firmly in Aussies favour now.

by msp83 Thu 11 Jul 2013, 11:01 am

Finn with the first over of the day.

by kingraf Thu 11 Jul 2013, 11:05 am

Would be epic if Smith scored a ton

by msp83 Thu 11 Jul 2013, 11:06 am

Stuart Broad is passed fit today morning, and should be available to bowl right away reports cricinfo. Very good news that for England. But its James Anderson on from the other end. Aggers on TMS reports that the ball is doing absolutely nothing as of now.

by KP_fan Thu 11 Jul 2013, 11:08 am

it's flattened for the bowlers......none off the deviation in the air today for anderson or Finn so far

by mystiroakey Thu 11 Jul 2013, 11:08 am

Yep the ball is doing zip all..

Good tight bowling is needed. restrict the rate and mistake will come.. Patient times.,.

by VTR Thu 11 Jul 2013, 11:09 am

msp83 wrote:Stuart Broad is passed fit today morning, and should be available to bowl right away reports cricinfo. Very good news that for England. But its James Anderson on from the other end. Aggers on TMS reports that the ball is doing absolutely nothing as of now.

Dammit, even Phil Hughes will be able to get a score in these conditions

by trebellbobaggins Thu 11 Jul 2013, 11:09 am

Well bumble reckons that long line up will see Aussie win this then.

One good innings and its over.

by trebellbobaggins Thu 11 Jul 2013, 11:10 am

kingraf wrote:Would be epic if Smith scored a ton

Not the word I'd use.

This looks easy. These two will do just that. A double ton looking likely here, set to the point you can't move them.

What is it with the identically dressed fans. you see this in the rugby too like some sort of communist sports army.

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