Ashes: First Test

First topic message reminder :

It's weird...no thread on T1 yet
Ashton Agar will play is the breaking news.

What? Anderson is a club bowler dammit, and a limited one at that... It isnt overcast he would play seconds!! (that may be true, as I am the first team captain...)

alfie wrote:

msp83 wrote:I think the third umpire is getting some unfair flack here. Hotspot is what you go by when it comes to inside edges, due to whatever reasons, it showed nothing. Without an edge, Trott was a dead duck. The third umpire had no option but to give that out.
Perhaps unfortunate for Trott, he might have hit it, but its the problem with the DRS technology, or to be more precise the operation of the technology rather than an issue with the umpire.
There is still some work to do with DRS.

But that is just the point , msp .  The hotspot camera from side on , the view that was needed to be sure , wasn't working...

As the field umpire had ruled not out , Erasmus had to be quite certain there was clear evidence to over rule . And obviously , without hotspot , there wasn't.

So Erasmus has exceeded his authority in letting his opinion prevail over the on field call.  Regardless of fact , he was wrong in law

Alfie, it wasn't the umpire's mistake that the side on camera was engaged elsewhere. On the basis of what he was shown, Trott was out, nothing on the bat, and as plum as they come. If Trott had not hit that one, and umpire Dar gave that not out and Australia reviewed and there was no side on available and the third umpire gave that not out bbecause the side on camera wasn't available, it would have been a disaster as well. Jonathan Trott found himself at the wrong end of a call, but he can't blame the third umpire. And as MFC said, I do feel sorry for Aleem Dar the most.

msp83 wrote:

alfie wrote:

msp83 wrote:I think the third umpire is getting some unfair flack here. Hotspot is what you go by when it comes to inside edges, due to whatever reasons, it showed nothing. Without an edge, Trott was a dead duck. The third umpire had no option but to give that out.
Perhaps unfortunate for Trott, he might have hit it, but its the problem with the DRS technology, or to be more precise the operation of the technology rather than an issue with the umpire.
There is still some work to do with DRS.

But that is just the point , msp .  The hotspot camera from side on , the view that was needed to be sure , wasn't working...

As the field umpire had ruled not out , Erasmus had to be quite certain there was clear evidence to over rule . And obviously , without hotspot , there wasn't.

So Erasmus has exceeded his authority in letting his opinion prevail over the on field call.  Regardless of fact , he was wrong in law

Alfie, it wasn't the umpire's mistake that the side on camera was engaged elsewhere. On the basis of what he was shown, Trott was out, nothing on the bat, and as plum as they come. If Trott had not hit that one, and umpire Dar gave that not out and Australia reviewed and there was no side on available and the third umpire gave that not out bbecause the side on camera wasn't available, it would have been a disaster as well. Jonathan Trott found himself at the wrong end of a call, but he can't blame the third umpire. And as MFC said, I do feel sorry for Aleem Dar the most.

Bar the huge deflection clearly visible to the naked eye?

If we can get a lead of 200-250 and bat for quite a long period of time, I'd still fancy Swann to rattle through them

This could turn square come Day 4/5

Olly wrote:If we can get a lead of 200-250 and bat for quite a long period of time, I'd still fancy Swann to rattle through them

This could turn square come Day 4/5

agar trying to save a match will show us his mettle.. but this one is gone so it won't be here.

Like I said, Hotspot>Human eye, whatever it does or doesnt pick up takes precedence. Im pretty sure thats the ICC line

kingraf wrote:Like I said, Hotspot>Human eye, whatever it does or doesnt pick up takes precedence. Im pretty sure thats the ICC line

 hotspot wasnt on at the time. not sure what else needs to be said

And it also has to be kept in mind that the onfield calls are valid only in cases of unclear calls on impact. The third umpire can even give a batsman out for a different mode of dismissal if he finds that is the case.

But it was from only one angle... SKY takes as much heat as anyone. They really should, to my knowledge, the third umpire did everything by the book.

why did cook play that first innings shot. Oh dear - it gets worse every time i look at it

kingraf wrote:But it was from only  one angle... SKY takes as much heat as anyone. They really should, to my knowledge, the third umpire did everything by the book.

And then still failed to give the correct decision! Pathetic umpiring. If he gives the Trott one out, the Agar one had to be out too. You can't just change your benefit of the doubt rules willy nilly

Cook and KP have kept calm and have carried on. Let them go forward together.

49/2, don't worry about the score, just bat time, of which there is plenty, and the runs will come.

kingraf wrote:But it was from only  one angle... SKY takes as much heat as anyone. They really should, to my knowledge, the third umpire did everything by the book.

 An angle that makes no difference.  it was affectively not working

In a court of law. he would be in.

Anyway I am really not bothered by it and never was- you have to deal with the decisions as they come. it all swings in roundabouts. But for the theoretical discussion the third umpire was wrong.

As my last comment on the drs thing , msp :

If Dar had given it out , and no hotspot view was available to be sure when Trott called for a review , then the out decision would have stood ...this is what you aren't understanding. The TV umpire is not a second opinion...he is there to view all available technology , and if it shows the on field umpire was clearly wrong , change it. In this case , there was not enough to prove Dar wrong. Partly because the hotspot thing failed. So he should not have overturned , even if he thought it likely Dar was in error.

Bit like a run out , when all camera angles are obscured...you just can't rule on it , so back to the field umpire.


Anyway . That is it for me tonight. Hope these two are still batting on Friday...

alfie wrote:As my last comment on the drs thing , msp :

If Dar had given it out , and no hotspot view was available to be sure when Trott called for a review , then the out decision would have stood ...this is what you aren't understanding. The TV umpire is not a second opinion...he is there to view all available technology , and if it shows the on field umpire was clearly wrong , change it. In this case , there was not enough to prove Dar wrong.  Partly because the hotspot thing failed.  So he should not have overturned , even if he thought it likely Dar was in error.

Bit like a run out , when all camera angles are obscured...you just can't rule on it , so back to the field umpire.


Anyway . That is it for me tonight.  Hope these two are still batting on Friday...

This. A thousand times this.

Spot on Alfie

True Mystir- rounndabouts... Kallis given out unfairly in England, Faf gets lucky vs Pakistan...

^^^^^

Things seem to have turned into a normal test match for the last hour or so.

My doctor will be pleased.

Super Kev is starting to loosen those shoulders. The deficit is into single figures now.

Of course the frustration is inevitable, but Id rather have UDRS, then not. I remember SAvInd 2011, when a Paul harris appeal vs Tendulkar was turned down... Was hitting halfway up middle, Tendulkar went on to score a ton...

UDRS doesnt fix the ultimate problem - but it helps and normally would never over turn a correct decision- it should only be able to overturn an incorrect one.

thats the problem with trotts decsion.. It seemed as though a correct one has been overturned!!

On a cricket note whilst yesterday showed the good side to Steven Finn, today showed the bad side.

I really hopes he develops control as he gains experience

I think it is very unfriendly bowling today. We all should realise that is the magic of Jimmy and swanny, they can make things happen on any surface as other top bowlers can, so it wasnt an easy day for Finn.

But your right in that situation you need control. You need a good line and length

50 partnership.  

Keep going.

As a strong supporter of Steven Finn, I'll be the first one to admit that he had a bad day with the ball today. No excuses there, it was a bad day in the office. I am sure he'll be back to his usual good self in the 2nd innings.

BTW how can Agar bat that well and be last out,


Now that I have calmed down and started to think rationaly it seems as though Aus have totally fluked this performance- He almost didnt play and he got lucky in the fact that he had the time to almost get a ton playing so far down the order..

Where does everyone think he should play next innings?

And thats the first target accomplished. Now to get on with the profit!

Just one wicket Aus... Come on Siddle. The guy is really nothing more than a gritter, but my word what an expert gritter. Who need swing (Anderson), seam (Philander), or pace (Steyn) when you have an advanced level of grit!

And England take the lead! 250 more is the minimum requirement.

#comeonengland

England take the lead, and Cook gets a life!. Haddin dropping a catch of young Agar. Could be a massive moment in the game here.

Two drops for Haddin, and a failed innings... Im leading the crusade to include Wade!!

Duty281 wrote:Super Kev is starting to loosen those shoulders. The deficit is into single figures now.

Nne of that. I don't think anyone else will get away with the rather silly shenanigans of this afternoon. Even young Agar will probably never do it again.

It's just a new english tradition to allow stupid scores from 11.

Focus Alastair, focus!.

kingraf wrote:Two drops for Haddin, and a failed innings... Im leading the crusade to include Wade!!

 ermm. not really drops, both very slim chances at best and he didnt get his hands on either

Duty281 wrote:

kingraf wrote:I must say, I love people like Duty, so proud of their country, so convinced that they are the greatest in everything. The world needs more optimists...

Good on you mate.

Well optimists do live longer and all that.

How did I ever reach my mid forties ?

trebellbobaggins wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

kingraf wrote:I must say, I love people like Duty, so proud of their country, so convinced that they are the greatest in everything. The world needs more optimists...

Good on you mate.

Well optimists do live longer and all that.

How did I ever reach my mid forties ?

 

That period of Aussie dominance between 1989-2005 probably destroyed any optimism you had!

I would be the same if I only followed South Africa's football scores... Wouldnt even watch national sports!

If Cook and KP last another half-hour, we may well look back at this session as the one that won the Test match. Defy Australia until the very end.

Just one more, Siddle!!

It did duty. As a young man I could watch and enjoy. I remember being chilled win or lose. Then the years of hell came and it became one long painful joke.

I've never been the same. I just keep seeing it all coming back every time we play now.

this is another match from hell like the old days. Aussie battering England with a little kid they just found in playschool... painful. Eng essentially are 2 down at the start of the innings for nothing.

trebellbobaggins wrote:It did duty. As a young man I could watch and enjoy.  I remember being chilled win or lose. Then the years of hell came and it became one long painful joke.

I've never been the same.  I just keep seeing it all coming back every time we play now.

this is another match from hell like the old days.  Aussie battering England with a little kid they just found in playschool... painful.   Eng essentially are 2 down at the start of the innings for nothing.

Relax Trebbs. Cook and KP are settled. The ball is ageing and not reversing. The lead is steadily growing. Australia have to bat last. Everything points to an England win right now.

Well i went through that period as well. It never killed my optimism.. But then I am supporter of so many sports. We have allways been ok at at least one of them at any given time

we shall see duty. aussie totally on top at the moment.

they have two gone on the wicket for no runs.

I will say one thing though. if they avoid getting skittled after the deflating effect young Agar's bosh had on them they it's a good sign that they can keep their heads up.

6 Aussies batsmen scored 2 or less;)  

kingraf wrote:I would be the same if I only followed South Africa's football scores... Wouldnt even watch national sports!

yeah, I really should find some more relaxing sports.

I do like a bit of cycling and the Tour is a more relaxing watch for me. Watching nearbye Brittany yesterday was a wonderfully relaxing sporting moment.

Another 6 overs in the day, and Peter Siddle is back on.

kingraf wrote:Just one more, Siddle!!

it'd be dead confusing if they had two players with the same name.


and Roakey is right, it's good to have other sports for when this goes awry.

Trebbes mate you need to get into GOLF!

best sport- chilled out. Takes a long time like test cricket. Ubber skillz on display-

Australia have brought some fans! Not the 20,000 or so England brought to Melbourne, but still...