Vitali Klitschko - Time to Move on?

First topic message reminder :

I have a lot of time for Vitali Klitschko. He has fought well over the years and is a very good heavy weight champion. However, he hasn't fought for almost a year, his last two opponents weren't really world class, has no fight on the horizon and is 42 years old this week. So, should he retire? This is an intelligent man with qualifications most of us can only dream about. He is in Parliament in his own country, isn't he? If so, that's a full time job! To my mind, now is the time for him to go, head held high. People will say he is ducking some real challenges, but why hang around when he has nothing to prove? It's not like he hasn't got a life outside of boxing. Any serious counterpoints to this?

I hope this doesn't descend into a "bash Vitali" thread or "he's afraid of all the whipper snappers out there", but don't hold out too much hope.

pretty sure Chisora lost 10-2 by even the most conservative standards. But I suppose Chisora did do well. since his come back Klitschko has lost six rounds in nine fights... two of them were to Chisora, thats a pretty big percentage

Winchester up to his old tricks I see. Don't bite guys.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Winchester up to his old tricks I see. Don't bite guys.

he just seems to repeat the same thing over and over again. He insults klitschko for fighting Chisora but does not insult haye for doing it either.
Insults klitschko for fighting former cruiserweights but does not insult Fury whose last fight was against a former cruiserweight

I know I know, but you have to come to terms with the fact he clearly doesn't comprehend anything anyone says about anything - so just ignore him.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:I know I know, but you have to come to terms with the fact he clearly doesn't comprehend anything anyone says about anything - so just ignore him.

I should take your advice.

Fury is not the world champion. He far younger than both the Klitschkos and already taking on tougher and more dangerous opponents. What were the Klitschkos doing at Furys age? Who had they beaten? Getting knocked out by journeymen. Fury took on and beat Chisora when Chisora was an unbeaten fighter and Fury lacking experience. Klitschko who is the world champion then fought him after. It doesnt say alot when you are supposedly the best yet you ar taking on opponents who are sparring partners or fighters that are beaten by better opponents. Fury has the excuse that he is young and gaining experience yet he is still taking on a very risky fight with Haye. The Klitschkos have no excuse for offering sparring partners and opponents like Chisora or the cruiserweight Haye beat. They are supposed to be the best but they take no risks. And some people think these two would compete with the greatest heavyweights of all time.

winchester wrote:Fury is not the world champion. He far younger than both the Klitschkos and already taking on tougher and more dangerous opponents. What were the Klitschkos doing at Furys age? Who had they beaten? Getting knocked out by journeymen. Fury took on and beat Chisora when Chisora was an unbeaten fighter and Fury lacking experience. Klitschko who is the world champion then fought him after. It doesnt say alot when you are supposedly the best yet you ar taking on opponents who are sparring partners or fighters that are beaten by better opponents. Fury has the excuse that he is young and gaining experience yet he is still taking on a very risky fight with Haye. The Klitschkos have no excuse for offering sparring partners and opponents like Chisora or the cruiserweight Haye beat. They are supposed to be the best but they take no risks. And some people think these two would compete with the greatest heavyweights of all time.

Olympic super HW gold medal champion is what w klitschko was doing.

You say Klitschko is taking no risks but he beat Haye 2 years ago, how is that not taking a risk? he is also facing povetkin who is the 3/4th best hw in the world, how is that not taking a risk?

Klitschko also faced lennox lewis with just 2 weeks notice how is that not taking a risk?

Please think before you post.

It's easy to say they take no risks because they beat everyone so easily!

When you look at their records they have just about fought & beaten everyone they could've

Champagne_Socialist wrote:Olympic super HW gold medal champion is what w klitschko was doing.

You say Klitschko is taking no risks but he beat Haye 2 years ago, how is that not taking a risk? he is also facing povetkin who is the 3/4th best hw in the world, how is that not taking a risk?

Klitschko also faced lennox lewis with just 2 weeks notice how is that not taking a risk?

Please think before you post.

Stop biting mate!

He's spouting nonsense now.

DynamiteChris wrote:It's easy to say they take no risks because they beat everyone so easily!

When you look at their records they have just about fought & beaten everyone they could've

Well said, remember this argument coming up some time ago and the best names anyone could come up with were Valuev and Ruiz! If you can retire and those are the best sticks anyone can beat you with you have not done to shabbily as far as I am concerned.

They are old now and are trying to hang on as long as possible. They are not interested in taking risks. They offer matches to sparring partners and opponents who are not the best in the division. People make so many excuses for them and overrate how good they are. I dont know how more people arent looking forward to them retiring. Boring style, boring fights, boring opponents. Maybe they would beat Fury and Wilder, at least the younger Klitschko but they should be offering them matches and proving it. Not offering matches to these overmatched sparring partners or boxers like Chisora who had lost to Fury.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:Olympic super HW gold medal champion is what w klitschko was doing.

You say Klitschko is taking no risks but he beat Haye 2 years ago, how is that not taking a risk? he is also facing povetkin who is the 3/4th best hw in the world, how is that not taking a risk?

Klitschko also faced lennox lewis with just 2 weeks notice how is that not taking a risk?

Please think before you post.

Stop biting mate!

He's spouting nonsense now.

Yeh I think I will leave it for today, It's clear he must be on the wind up ecause no one can say the things he does unless they are on the wind up.

Actually if Fury beats Haye - he'll be propoelled up the rankings with all bodies - then Wlad will murder him.

Rowley wrote:

DynamiteChris wrote:It's easy to say they take no risks because they beat everyone so easily!

When you look at their records they have just about fought & beaten everyone they could've

Well said, remember this argument coming up some time ago and the best names anyone could come up with were Valuev and Ruiz! If you can retire and those are the best sticks anyone can beat you with you have not done to shabbily as far as I am concerned.

Look around at he division now. They havent fought Fury or Wilder. Theres no way the boxers they have fought recently are anywhere near the best in the division. They are sparring partners and boxers like Chisora who had lost to better fighters. They let Haye do their work for them to beat Valuev instead of offering him a match themselves and come up with the excuse that they offered him a match when he lost but actually ened figting some guy who is useless.

Maybe Wilder has got them spooked off the back of beating the beast that is Audley Harrison. Is no coincidence they also did not offer a shot to Michael Sprott

Actually - Winnie - Chagaev slapped valuev around so he got the shot and then he got slapped around by one of the klitchkos.

winchester wrote:

Rowley wrote:

DynamiteChris wrote:It's easy to say they take no risks because they beat everyone so easily!

When you look at their records they have just about fought & beaten everyone they could've

Well said, remember this argument coming up some time ago and the best names anyone could come up with were Valuev and Ruiz! If you can retire and those are the best sticks anyone can beat you with you have not done to shabbily as far as I am concerned.

Look around at he division now. They havent fought Fury or Wilder. Theres no way the boxers they have fought recently are anywhere near the best in the division. They are sparring partners and boxers like Chisora who had lost to better fighters. They let Haye do their work for them to beat Valuev instead of offering him a match themselves and come up with the excuse that they offered him a match when he lost but actually ened figting some guy who is useless.

I know a few people have said this before to you but do you realise that Wilder was a sparring partner for Klitschko?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUlfI5VlZuY

JabMachineMK2 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:Olympic super HW gold medal champion is what w klitschko was doing.

You say Klitschko is taking no risks but he beat Haye 2 years ago, how is that not taking a risk? he is also facing povetkin who is the 3/4th best hw in the world, how is that not taking a risk?

Klitschko also faced lennox lewis with just 2 weeks notice how is that not taking a risk?

Please think before you post.

Stop biting mate!

He's spouting nonsense now.

You are the guy who made up stories about being a boxer and thinks that Lennox Lewis could take on and beat Fury now when hes been retired for god knows how long and is in his late forties. I dont think anyone should be taking you too seriously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUlfI5VlZuY

That's now though, until a couple of months ago no one here had heard of Wilder let alone seen him.

Same outside the UK for Fury

Wouldn't give either of them much of a chance anyway to be honest, Wilder looks the part till he starts swinging, the Klits would have a field day against him with their straight 1-2's

Thank god they didn't go anywhere near Valuev, Wlad vs Valuev would've been awful to watch! They would've both beaten him though I think

I find the Klitschko's so very poor, I mean they fought DAVID HAYE when he was WBA Champion, and now Wlad is fighting POVETKIN who is also a WBA champion - I mean who in the right mind would consider these dangerous opponents? Why hasn't Wlad been chasing the REAL challenges out there like Fury who dumped his belts and has gone on record as saying "I'll never fight a Klitschko" Ducking at its finest. Why hasn't Vitali stalled his flourishing political career and seeked out Deontay Wilder after his DEMOLITION of Harrison? That guy Wilder, you know, he's beaten all those top ranked heavyweights! Those guys who are well above the level of World and European champions, like Matthew Greer, Jesse Oltmans and Kertson Manswell.

Yeah, going through "sparring partners" who have undefeated records and who rank highly with the organisations is such bullcrap man, its not the fact that the heavyweight division is devoid of talent at all. I mean, Fury has been mixing it with such top calibre opposition like Maddalone and Rogan. Wow, if I were Klitschko I'd be seeking the WRECKING BALL who put them away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUlfI5VlZuY

JabMachineMK2 wrote:I find the Klitschko's so very poor, I mean they fought DAVID HAYE when he was WBA Champion, and now Wlad is fighting POVETKIN who is also a WBA champion - I mean who in the right mind would consider these dangerous opponents? Why hasn't Wlad been chasing the REAL challenges out there like Fury who dumped his belts and has gone on record as saying "I'll never fight a Klitschko" Ducking at its finest. Why hasn't Vitali stalled his flourishing political career and seeked out Deontay Wilder after his DEMOLITION of Harrison? That guy Wilder, you know, he's beaten all those top ranked heavyweights! Those guys who are well above the level of World and European champions, like Matthew Greer, Jesse Oltmans and Kertson Manswell.

Yeah, going through "sparring partners" who have undefeated records and who rank highly with the organisations is such bullcrap man, its not the fact that the heavyweight division is devoid of talent at all. I mean, Fury has been mixing it with such top calibre opposition like Maddalone and Rogan. Wow, if I were Klitschko I'd be seeking the WRECKING BALL who put them away.

The worrying thing is that this is actually how Winchester thinks.

Lets look at the heavyweight rankings.

WBC

Champion - Vitali

1. Bermane Stiverne
2. Seth Mitchell
3. Chris Arreola
4. Magomed Abdusalamov
5. Tyson Fury
6. David Haye
7. Manuel Charr
8. Kubrat Pulev
9. Tomasz Adamek
10. Jonathan Banks
11. Fres Oquendo
12. Franklin Lawrence
13. Odlanier Solis
14. Eric Molina
15. Mark di Mori

 

WBA

Champion Povetkin/Super Champion Wladimir Klitschko

1. David Haye
2. Luis Ortiz
3. Dennis Boytsov
4. Seth Mitchel
5. Fres Oquendo
6. Deontay Wilder
7. Jovo Pudar
8. Ruslan Chagaev
9. Chris Arreola
10. Alexander UstinovMagomed Abdusalamov
11.
12. Andy Ruiz Jr.
13. Travis Kaufman
14. Mark De Mori
15. Malik Scott

 

IBF

Champion - Wladimir Klitschko

1. Kubrat Pulev
2. NOT RATED
3. Bryant Jennings
4. Jonathon Banks
5. Ruslan Chagaev
6. Robert Helenius
7. Alexander Ustinov
8. Tony Thompson
9. Alexander Dimitrenko
10. Vyacheslav Glazkov
11. Tyson Fury
12. Tomasz Adamek
13. Malik Scott
14. David Price
15. Deontay Wilder

 

WBO

Champion - Wladimir Klitschko

1. Robert Helenius
2. Jonathon Banks
3. Denis Boytsov
4. David Haye
5. Bermane Stiverne
6. Tyson Fury
7. Deontay Wilder
8. Luis Ortiz
9. Alex Leapai
10. Christian Hammer
11. Kubrat Pulev
12. Joe Hanks
13. Carlos Takam
14. Andy Ruiz
15. Andriy Rudenko

Well. They're so highly ranked! Look at those titans, absolutely blistering through the organisations, why aren't the Klitschkos seeking out those really highly ranked and WORLD REKNOWNED boxers? Such duckers!

tl;dr

They don't rank, and nobody outside of the UK cares about Fury and nobody outside of the US and UK has even heard of the machine that is Deontay Wilder.

Look If Winchester believes what he says then he's allowed to air it.........

I mean some people on here picked Williams to beat Vitali.............So If being a d*****d is a banning offence I'd be one of the few left on here......

and I get very down if I have no one to irritate..

The point is they arent seeking out Fury. They havent offered him a match. People go on like he has no chance them but if it was that easy they would have at least offered him a match. You have to go all the way back to David Haye before they fought anyone as dangerous as Fury and David Haye is not a natual heavyweight like Fury who is bigger than both the Klitschkos and much younger. They find ways to offer matches to Chisora who lost to Fury, sparring partners who are ranked lower than Fury so its bull that he doesnt deserve a match or is worse than the boxers they are only too happy to offer matches to.

Winchester, can you please look at the rankings I posted and get back to me?

Cheers.

So Winny (how come he gets a cutesy nickname!) says that the K brothers only fight sparring partners and low risk fighters. He then criticises them for not fighting Wilder, a sparring partner, and Fury, who is not very experienced and so low risk. Does sound a little unfocused that criticism.

winchester wrote:The point is they arent seeking out Fury. They havent offered him a match. People go on like he has no chance them but if it was that easy they would have at least offered him a match. You have to go all the way back to David Haye before they fought anyone as dangerous as Fury and David Haye is not a natual heavyweight like Fury who is bigger than both the Klitschkos and much younger. They find ways to offer matches to Chisora who lost to Fury, sparring partners who are ranked lower than Fury so its bull that he doesnt deserve a match or is worse than the boxers they are only too happy to offer matches to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUlfI5VlZuY

Lets bear in mind also that Wladimir has to cover 3 (4 if you include The Ring) mandatories and 3 sanctioning bodies in terms of boxers. Tyson fury isn't a urine in the ocean when you consider the other boxers available. Can't pick out ONE boxer who hasn't fought anybody mate. Thats like calling Floyd a ducker for not seeking out Kell Brook.

Jabmachine says we should stop biting...........and then asks him to look at his rankings

Got to hand it to him........he makes waingro look like an amateur

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Winchester, can you please look at the rankings I posted and get back to me?

Cheers.

Jabmachine, where is Povetkin in the rankings? I can't see him and it is hurting our argument!!

bhb001 wrote:So Winny (how come he gets a cutesy nickname!) says that the K brothers only fight sparring partners and low risk fighters. He then criticises them for not fighting Wilder, a sparring partner, and Fury, who is not very experienced and so low risk. Does sound a little unfocused that criticism.

This is what confuses me lol. Wilder was Klitschkos sparring partner only 7 months ago. He says Klitschko only fights sparring partners and then he says kitschko is ducking wilder, a SPARRING PARTNER.

bhb001 wrote:

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Winchester, can you please look at the rankings I posted and get back to me?

Cheers.

Jabmachine, where is Povetkin in the rankings? I can't see him and it is hurting our argument!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUlfI5VlZuY here he is

The Ring Rankings

Champion - Wladmir Klitschko

1. Vitali Klitschko
2. Alexander Povetkin (Wlads next opponent)
3. David Haye (previous Wlad victim)
4. Kubrat Pulev
5. Tomasz Adamek (Previous Vitali Victim)
6. Ruslan Chagaev (previous Wlad Victim)
7. Robert Helenius
8. Tyson Fury
9. Tony Thompson
10. Bermane Stiverne

So Deontay doesn't even rank by The Ring.

Thats 2 other boxers they could "seek out" before Tyson Fury that they haven't already beaten between them. See their issue? They have to box within their relative organisations too to keep them happy, Stiverne is ranked #1 by the WBC - so he's Vitalis mandatory. Can't knock him for taking on a mandatory before fighting some nobody like Fury who he probably hasn't even heard of. Wlad has already beaten the majority of the top 10 and signed to fight #2. Don't see an issue personally.

bhb001 wrote:

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Winchester, can you please look at the rankings I posted and get back to me?

Cheers.

Jabmachine, where is Povetkin in the rankings? I can't see him and it is hurting our argument!!

He is the super HW champ in the wba rankings.

And he is ranked number 2 on the ring magazine rankings.

Oh I'm not biting in the sense of just arguing, I'm posting facts - Champers will cotton on that using logic doesn't work with Winny, so we have to resort to facts he can't disagree with unless he wants to make himself look sillier.

Fury and Wilder are qualified opponents using the lowest tier of Klitschko defences. Some of their defences have set the bar low due to lack of depth, longetitivity and shortage of alternatives every so often. But they have only been vaguely realistic options for about 12 months, if you can even consider someone of Wilders ambitions so far realistic at all. Far too early to jump on the ducking accusations or ignore the near decade strong evidence of the Klitschkos facing the top divisional challenges and facing mandatory obligations.

manos de piedra wrote:Fury and Wilder are qualified opponents using the lowest tier of Klitschko defences. Some of their defences have set the bar low due to lack of depth, longetitivity and shortage of alternatives every so often. But they have only been vaguely realistic options for about 12 months, if you can even consider someone of Wilders ambitions so far realistic at all. Far too early to jump on the ducking accusations or ignore the near decade strong evidence of the Klitschkos facing the top divisional challenges and facing mandatory obligations.

Isn' povetkin klitschkos mandatory? re-enforcing the idea that the klitschkos always fight their mandatories.

I thought he was, CS. But hey, never let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory

So what about mandatory. Theres no excuse for picking Chisora who had lost to Fury and offering him a fight but not offering one to Fury. If Wilder is a sparring partner for the Klitschkos then the fact they offered some rubbish one a match last time instead of Wilder says it all. They pick easy options and opponents they know they can beat. Maybe they know from sparring with Wilder that he would be able to beat them.

winchester wrote:So what about mandatory. Theres no excuse for picking Chisora who had lost to Fury and offering him a fight but not offering one to Fury. If Wilder is a sparring partner for the Klitschkos then the fact they offered some rubbish one a match last time instead of Wilder says it all. They pick easy options and opponents they know they can beat. Maybe they know from sparring with Wilder that he would be able to beat them.

If they always fight their mandatories how can you claim they pick easy options? Do you understand what a mandatory is? I actually don't believe you do know.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

winchester wrote:So what about mandatory. Theres no excuse for picking Chisora who had lost to Fury and offering him a fight but not offering one to Fury. If Wilder is a sparring partner for the Klitschkos then the fact they offered some rubbish one a match last time instead of Wilder says it all. They pick easy options and opponents they know they can beat. Maybe they know from sparring with Wilder that he would be able to beat them.

If they always fight their mandatories how can you claim they pick easy options? Do you understand what a mandatory is? I actually don't believe you do know.

You know nothing about boxing.

Wish you lived on a farm

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

winchester wrote:So what about mandatory. Theres no excuse for picking Chisora who had lost to Fury and offering him a fight but not offering one to Fury. If Wilder is a sparring partner for the Klitschkos then the fact they offered some rubbish one a match last time instead of Wilder says it all. They pick easy options and opponents they know they can beat. Maybe they know from sparring with Wilder that he would be able to beat them.

If they always fight their mandatories how can you claim they pick easy options? Do you understand what a mandatory is? I actually don't believe you do know.

You know nothing about boxing.

Wish you lived on a farm

Too many people think they know everything when it comes to matters of opinion on here.

 

winchester wrote:Theres no excuse for picking Chisora

Actually there was a very good case for it - he had lost a very contentious decision to Helenius, who is on the European Heavyweight scene, the Klitschko's would have seen this fight and thought "hey, he's decent" rather than all of a sudden looked across to the UK where nothing of note has happened to see Tyson Fury fighting Neven Pajkic. Not a man testing himself.

Chisora fought for the set of European Belts, made a very good case for winning (I had him up by 4 rounds) but was essentially robbed by a hometown decision. Among the boxing critics, they all thought Chisora should have won. This made Vitali sit up and take notice, as Helenius was a potential opponent.

bhb001 wrote:So Winny (how come he gets a cutesy nickname!) says that the K brothers only fight sparring partners and low risk fighters. He then criticises them for not fighting Wilder, a sparring partner, and Fury, who is not very experienced and so low risk. Does sound a little unfocused that criticism.

Because you said Bumchester was unbecoming........

Yeah sure, pick a guy that was beaten easily by Fury and its ok but I question why they dont offer a match to Fury who is unbeaten and beat Chisora when Chisora was unbeaten and all the excuses come out. Fury is better than Chisora and deserves to be offered a match instead of the the rubbish sparring partners that the Klitschkos have fought.

I would suggest a middle ground of 'Wumchester' would be both fitting and unoffensive enough to escape attention of the mods. Though dumbchester may be more fitting.