Deon Fourie & the mid career position switch.

The form of Deon Fourie at the Stormers is causing quite a debate at the moment. Once known solely as an impact hooker, gross injuries at WP over the last 2 seasons to players such as Schalk Burger, Duane Vermeulen etc have caused him to switch to the flank with significant results.

The player looks at home on the flank made more remarkable due to his 1.78cm frame and its surprising that no one has pushed him into the position prior given he’s been a professional rugby player for the last 8 years. Current talk is whether or not he deserves a springbok call up with many pundits believing his form alone will force Meyer’s hand.
This is a player who has dominated players such as Heinrich Brussow and Dewald Potgeiter in recent matches... two of the best ruck operating flankers in the game.

Meyer himself may prove tougher to please however. He comes from the old bok school of thought where unless you’re 190cm and 110kg you’re not suited to test rugby. When you have Frans Louw in your side thats fine but take him out and there are no other suitable players for the boks and chaps like Kolisi, Coetzee etc just don’t look up to standard in that role and star of the past in Schalk Burger look unlikely to ever return to his former self due to mass injuries and illness over the last 2 years.
For me and many other followers of the bok game, he is the type of player who Meyer should take seriously... either him or Brussow, it doesn’t matter.

The boks no longer rule the roost in front five play at least for now and the rest of this RWC cycle. They are competitive but can’t depend on smashing their opponents like they did in years gone past.... rivals have caught up. Etzebeth for all his physicality doesn’t bring the same level of brute force that bakkies, Weise etc brought to the boks. Without this their backrow struggles especially when they play 3 primary ball carriers at 6-7-8.

Back to Fourie though... you could make arguments to say that he’s only a stop-gap, that he’s performing well due to the Stormers pack strength... yet if you look more closely, the Stormers pack had only 1 recognised Bok on Saturday... against 7 in the Bulls lineup.

When I look at him from a front row perspective I don’t think he’s quite test calibre... even then he’s probably 2nd in the pecking order at the Stormers and quite a bit further down from a Bok call up given the talent SA possess at hooker. Like Schalk Brits he lacks the grunt required to terrorise teams but whereas Brits is flashy and has an excellent turn of pace, Fourie has great upperbody strength and a low centre of gravity which he utilises to the max come the breakdown.

I’d say, give him a chance and that he should make a permanent move to the backrow... I don’t see it happening though... not when Brussow is still in the wilderness.

FA, if Brussow doesn't get into the Bok team, I can't see how Fourie is going to.

My personal opinion on him is he isn't good enough for Test rugby. Make no mistake he is in good form and doing well, but not a Bok in my view.

At hooker we have Bismarck, Adriaan and Chiliboy, so he is definitely not going to make it at hooker, at flank and specific the number 6 position we have Kolisi, Coetzee, Brussow, now although Brussow is the only real fetcher amongst those, when our pack is balanced with Bismarck (a great fetcher himself) I don't think we need a specialist, Meyer himself has never really believed in one, and he is and should rather be looking at a more balanced backrow with Botha, Vermeulen and perhaps Labuschagne/Alberts/Deysel

Hi BB, yeah thats what I think too... although perhaps with a slightly WP tinted mindset... his form has been better then Brussows this season... and to be fair he's bested a lot of top domestic players of late.
Its about seeing if he can expand on this form already.

I can't see how Meyer can continue this strategy though. Without Louw, Kolisi and Coetzee don't look the same calibre....Kolisi is not the same type of player mind, more defensive.
Brussow is a class player though and it reminds me of the Jake White - Luke Watson saga years back... everyone is calling for his inclusion... but if the man in charge doesn't rate you, you stand no chance.

Yep, I like Lappies Labuschagne, Alberts, Deysel, Vermeulen, Botha and Van der Merwe, I think Kolisi is an impact sub but so is Coetzee.

I wouldn't mind seeing Deysel, ALberts and Vermeulen though. Will be a ferocious backrow.

What happened to Brussow..
When he first came on the scene he was getting rediculously good reviews...but just seemed to dissapear from the national set up?

Was that due to size or that SA dont really use an actual fetcher at the time prefering Smith and Burger on the flanks?

Bit of both Geordie.

Forget about him appearing in a Boks jersey. They only pick big forwards so anyone who is below a certain size is automatically disqualified.

Brussow was the first <6ft that I recall playing in the backrow for the boks in the pro era. Floors doesn't count as he was an enforced selection. I think PDV should take some credit for bringing him into the equation.

With Fourie at 5'9 - 5'10 it would be bizarre but hey, if Kobus Weise says he should play... I won't disagree.

How is Burger getting on? Will we ever see him play again for SA? Such a shame that injuries meant the Burger/Smith combo didn't appear too often.

I can't believe the Boks haven't persisted with Brussouw. I understand that he had a long term injury, but on the 2009 Lions tour, he was an absolute terror. Brilliant over the ball, and a little like Pocock, he seemed to come out with the ball if ever he entered a ruck. His carrying was effective too.

It's a shame that he's not in the frame at the moment. Is he starting for Cheetahs?

Developed meningitis early in the year.... I don't think he will be back by the end of the season. Probably the worst bout of injuries I can recall anyone having since Wilkinson from 04-07. I went to his last game where he picked up his original injury which was 16 months ago!!!

Going to be tough for him to return...his play was all about maximum aggression and physicality, any drop in that would make him much less effective.

Heart says he can not only return but actually become the natural leader of this bok side to the RWC15 (he was Meyer's original choice as captain)... head says he'll never wear the green and gold again.

Biltong wrote:Yep, I like Lappies Labuschagne, Alberts, Deysel, Vermeulen, Botha and Van der Merwe, I think Kolisi is an impact sub but so is Coetzee.

I wouldn't mind seeing Deysel, ALberts and Vermeulen though. Will be a ferocious backrow.

Where has Deysel been over the past few years? Is he on form currently? I remember his name thrown around a lot years ago but I never saw him in the Boks shirt. I guess with Juan Smith and Schalk Burger you aren't going to get many chances though.

bluestonevedder wrote:I can't believe the Boks haven't persisted with Brussouw. I understand that he had a long term injury, but on the 2009 Lions tour, he was an absolute terror. Brilliant over the ball, and a little like Pocock, he seemed to come out with the ball if ever he entered a ruck. His carrying was effective too.

It's a shame that he's not in the frame at the moment. Is he starting for Cheetahs?

He's had a good season in fact and relishing having a pack which can give him front foot ball. Deon Fourie is probably the form openside but overall I would say Brussow is of a different class... he's proved that year in year out.

Meyer is being a fool for not involving him... even as a bench option.... even Jack "all 3 backrowers must be 18st and 6'5" Rowell used Neil Back as a squad player back in the 90s as a just in case strategy requirement.... Without Brussow, Meyer has 1 option and without a massive front five his preferred backrow struggles.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Biltong wrote:Yep, I like Lappies Labuschagne, Alberts, Deysel, Vermeulen, Botha and Van der Merwe, I think Kolisi is an impact sub but so is Coetzee.

I wouldn't mind seeing Deysel, ALberts and Vermeulen though. Will be a ferocious backrow.

Where has Deysel been over the past few years?  Is he on form currently?  I remember his name thrown around a lot years ago but I never saw him in the Boks shirt.  I guess with Juan Smith and Schalk Burger you aren't going to get many chances though.

One of those players that a lot of people rate but he never seems to get a run as first choice in his club side anymore.. had his injury problems but in the end he's battling Willem Alberts, Keegan Daniel and Marcel Coetzee for a spot. I'd prefer him over Coetzee but lets see how Venter sets up his backrow... I can't see Daniel staying as No.8 longterm.

Personally I'd love to have him at WP, he could really cement a starting spot here and it would help his bok credentials. We're looking a little light at backrow at the moment... Kolisi, Vermeulen, Burger (2 yrs out injured), Fourie (our OP player)... we've just lost another youngster Armand to Europe. If Deysel came to the Stormers he'd fit in nicely.

fa0019 wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:I can't believe the Boks haven't persisted with Brussouw. I understand that he had a long term injury, but on the 2009 Lions tour, he was an absolute terror. Brilliant over the ball, and a little like Pocock, he seemed to come out with the ball if ever he entered a ruck. His carrying was effective too.

It's a shame that he's not in the frame at the moment. Is he starting for Cheetahs?

He's had a good season in fact and relishing having a pack which can give him front foot ball. Deon Fourie is probably the form openside but overall I would say Brussow is of a different class... he's proved that year in year out.

Meyer is being a fool for not involving him... even as a bench option.... even Jack "all 3 backrowers must be 18st and 6'5" Rowell used Neil Back as a squad player back in the 90s as a just in case strategy requirement.... Without Brussow, Meyer has 1 option and without a massive front five his preferred backrow struggles.

 For a minute I thought that your earlier post about meningitis was regarding Brussouw!  Triggered some frantic googling.

It would be a real shame not to include Brussouw in the Bok squad again. Like you said, he's a different sort of player to the other backrow options, and looks special when he's on form.

I really think he could form a pretty fearsome backrow with Albert at 7 and Vermulean at 8. Some real carrying power with those two, and a proper jackal to hunt the ball.

FA, I personally have always rated Deysel, he is a monster with ball in hand, in fact I rate him better than Alberts with ball in hand.

BB - Deysel certainly has all the skills... just never had great fortune to cement his place in teams/coaches minds.
Alberts does tire a lot mid game due to hauling that 120kg frame around the pitch.

If I could pinch 1 guy from the sharks backrow for WP/Stormers it would be Deysel, thats for sure... I wonder when his contract is up for renewal???

I used to like kabamba floors, what was he about 5ft 9 and spent some time playing number 8 !! A real funking pocket battle ship, basically the opposite to Pierre spies who is all size and no dog.

After YouTubeing Deysel, him and Alberts in the same team would be bloody scary

Even Jack "all 3 backrowers must be 18st and 6'5" Rowell

Ah yes...
6 Tim Rodber
7 Ben Clarke
8 Deano Richard

Massive back row...

Meyer just needs to watch some old videos of Neil Back and he will realise that the height of a back row player isn't the most important thing. Although Rowell eventually capped him, Back missed out on a hell of a lot of caps that he really should have had!

Brussow was superb on the weekend, can't see what else he can do... if he doesn't even make the squad this time he might as well pack up and earn his fortune elsewhere... as long as Meyer is in town.

It would be a slap in the teeth admittedly if Fourie was chosen ahead of him.