Welsh Team aginst Australia this Autumn

With players outside Wales unavailable, and injuries permitting after 3 tough games:

15 Halfpenny
14 Cuthbert
13 Davies
12 Scott Williams
11 Eli Walker (if fit)
10 Priestland or Biggar
9 Not a clue but please not young Brynmor!
8 Faletau
7 Tipuric (assuming Warburton will not be fit)
6 Ryan Jones
5 Evans
4 A W Jones
3 Adam Jones
2 Hibbard
1 Jenkins (again if fit)

Bench: Rhodri Jones, Owen, Andrews, Coombes, Turnbull??, (G Davies, Aled Davies, Evans, Knoyle???), (Priestland or Biggar), Beck????

Not a bad starting 15 (injuries allowing) apart from struggling for a 9. Pretty weak bench though!

I really think that Wales need to start blooding some new Props during the AI, imo Jenkins won't make the 2015 RWC.

I'd drop Davies. 

Sorry, had to be done.

No way Priestland for Biggar. The lad deserves that 10 spot and I think Gatland didn't want to expose him in Australia but will do so at home.

Scrumpy, think we're well stocked for up and coming looseheads.

My preferences go:

1. Rhys Gill
2. Ryan Bevington
3. Rhodri Jones

Bearing in mind we still have Jenkins and Paul James in the mix and going strong!

Its TH that worries me, Mitchell is unspectacular, solid at club level and a few strong games at test level but doesnt inspire me with confidence.

Samson Lee is too young, a few years away imo.

Aaron Jarvis (think thats his name) the youngster from the ospreys is probably our best hope at the moment, and Joe Rees is another with potential.

Scott Andrews is getting better and as a Blues fan I hold a LOT of hope on him progressing, more hope than anything else I'm afraid.

Still, all these guys are very young, and as long as Jones can stick around for a few more years at least there should be a smooth transition and we wont feel the drop too much.

I think it will look like

Halfpenny
Cuthbert
J Davies
S Williams
Li Williams
Priestland (Gats has never really chosen Biggar)
Ll Williams

Jenkins
Hibbard
Jones
Evans
AW Jones
Warburton
Tipuric
Faletau

(Bench -: Owens, Rh Jones, Lee, Coombes, R Jones, A Davies, Biggar, Beck/Random Back)

Comfort wrote:Scrumpy, think we're well stocked for up and coming looseheads.

My preferences go:

1. Rhys Gill
2. Ryan Bevington
3. Rhodri Jones

Bearing in mind we still have Jenkins and Paul James in the mix and going strong!

Its TH that worries me, Mitchell is unspectacular, solid at club level and a few strong games at test level but doesnt inspire me with confidence.

Samson Lee is too young, a few years away imo.

Aaron Jarvis (think thats his name) the youngster from the ospreys is probably our best hope at the moment, and Joe Rees is another with potential.

Scott Andrews is getting better and as a Blues fan I hold a LOT of hope on him progressing, more hope than anything else I'm afraid.

Still, all these guys are very young, and as long as Jones can stick around for a few more years at least there should be a smooth transition and we wont feel the drop too much.

I don't disagree with anything you have said but don't forget that for the Australia game Gill and James will not be available.

Agree with Scarlet Spiderman's team, although Eli Walker or Harry Robinson could sneak in ahead of Liam Williams in my opinion. I think we'll see Priestland return to the 10 jersey this season.

I got too excited about the props.

I'd hazard a guess at something like:

1. Jenkins
2. Ken Owens
3. Adam Jones
4. AW Jones
5. Evans
6. Warburton(c)
7. Tips
8. Faletau
9. Richie Rees/Jon Evans (Rhodri Williams is my bolter)
10. Priestland/Biggar (whoever isnt throwing a strop/destroying themselves mentally at the time)
11. Liam Williams
12. Scott Williams
13. Davies
14. Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny

16. Ryan Bevington
17. Hibbard
18. Scott Andrews
19. Bradley Davies
20. Ryan Jones
21. Lloyd Williams? (i guess)
22. Priestland/Biggar (read above - failing that Patchell)
23. Eli Walker/Beck/Adam Hughes - depending on what you want

ps. sorry Seagul - i got too carried away with talk of the fatboys I forgot we were discussing the 1 game specifically.

I guess the thing is there are a few lads with potential to push for this game.

Players like Harry Robinson, whoever ends up on the wing at the Scarlets/Ospreys, and Prydie will be targeting North's normal place, as after George and Cuthbert there are not really any players who have nailed their welsh squad place. The same goes for the scrum half slot now that both Tav and Phillips are unavailable.

However the back row and centre spots are pretty well covered with Team Wales regulars, so fingers crossed we shouldn't really be as hamstrung by the overseas players not being available as we usually are. It is just bench places that look significantly weaker.

SS - definitely agree.

there's a lot of potential that looks like its ready to 'step up' so to speak. No-ones really ahead of the others and they all have their strengths....

It's going to be the most interesting start to the season in a while for me!

 oh and i like your team SS

I understand North is not available, is it because the match falls outside the test window?

Bil, thats right.

The WRU have a habit of arranging a 4th game outside the IRB window (and incidentally a week or 2 before the HC groups start getting down to the business end).

This means Wales are without a host of their top players for this game (which usually means they lose and lose ranking points) and the regions are hampered even further.

Thats an argument for another day thats stuck on a carousel going around and around though my friend...

But comfort, he isn't the only one playing in France is he?

Why is it only him not available? Is it contract specific?

What's the rationale for people picking Ken Owens ahead of Hibbard? Seems odd to me, especially against Australia where presumably Gatland will want as much power in the front five as he can muster, having learnt his lesson on the Lions tour.

Bil, its not just him, its all the players outside of Wales as the regions here have a special agreement with the WRU.

So off the top of my head that'll be:

North
Roberts
Lydiate
Phillips
Gill
Charteris
Byrne
Hook

Ah, cheers I thought that.

John Yapp as well. Don't forget the mighty John Yapp!

So the Australian game is out of IRB rules, oh $hit
Too early to call the teams. We will still have a strong pack and scrum against Australia which might prove to be vital but without Jamie, north and mike there will be big boots to fill, i will enjoy seing Eli walker have a go though.
Adam, Gethin, Ian, Alyn wyn and Hibbard will all be available and will destroy the weak Aussie scrum, we HAVE to beat them it's not an option.
I just hope Richie rees come into form with the Dragons because he is the only real talent we have at 9 apart form mike (when on form)

 

funnyExiledScot wrote:John Yapp as well. Don't forget the mighty John Yapp!

FES - regarding Owens/Hibbard - its a very close call if you ask me.

Owens made a massive impact everytime he came off the bench, Hibbard was solid (sometimes spectacular) when starting. Its a good combination we have at the moment, I'd just like to see what Owens can bring from the start with his extra dynamism carrying the ball. I'd be pretty happy with either or atm especially after Hibbards exploits recently.

Jhamer25 wrote:Adam, Gethin, Ian, Alyn wyn and Hibbard will all be available and will destroy the weak Aussie scrum, we HAVE to beat them it's not an option.

We'll lend you Corbs if you want, just to make sure like

Yeh, and we'll lend you...umm....erm......

You can borrow Dr Robson if you like.....

I tell you something. Richie Rees will have learnt a fair bit at Edinburgh about playing with limited and scrappy possession. You can thank us anytime....

I'm not sure Rees will be first choice at the Dragons. More likely Jonny Evans will be (rightly so too). Also Evans (for one) also makes a mockery of whoever thinks we have no talent at 9. There's plenty of talent at 9 in Wales. Strange comment.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I'd drop Davies. 

Sorry, had to be done.

No way Priestland for Biggar. The lad deserves that 10 spot and I think Gatland didn't want to expose him in Australia but will do so at home.

agreed; he's not done anything to deserve being dropped. Hopefully Priestland can rebuild his form/fitness so there is genuine competition.

Really puts into perspective how the WRU have put paid to our chances of claiming a big scalp with their desperate last-minute arrangements of a 4th fixture. I don't subscribe to all the criticisms people make of them but this is a trait I really can no longer stand. Were we able to put out a full-strength I'd actually half fancy our chances after the Lions but without the likes of North, Roberts and Lydiate (who played important or decent roles out in Oz) it's hard to see us coming away with it.

Means our main hope of beating a SH side rests on the opening fixture (SA) but then the boys will be "rusty" or will lack gametime together     

I despair at the mutton-headedness of rugby administrators throughout these islands. Three autumn internationals are more than enough for any of the sides - more shows no regard for the long-term fitness of our players.

All four of the Lions nations have done it, this year it's Wales's turn to subject players to a crippling schedule. Look at the itinerary for the Lions players: 2012-13 season continues until early July. A couple of weeks off before heavy training resumes, then an increasingly arduous set of championship and HC fixtures. Autumn internationals next, followed by more Heineken Cup and then straight into the 6 Nations. The crippling domestic programme reaches its crescendo into April, May and even June (for the French-based players) and then it'll be summer tour time again.

What will that be - 40 games in a twelve-month stretch for some of Wales's finest? More? How is the NH to compete seriously on a regular basis with the SH if players are expected to behave like shift-workers? If France don't win the next 6N, I shall be quite surprised, I must say.

Agree with points made above re WRU putting 'commerce' ahead of rugby. Take any three or four key players out of the starting XV and we instantly become a very average side - we have no strength in depth.

This nonsense seems unlikely to ever change and, from a Welsh perspective, the autumn internationals are now nothing more than a cash-generating sideshow.

Maybe a return to this thread on players and a different thread for people who just want to discuss WRU rugby politics?

Problem is that there's no telling who will be fit or available for the Australia game. You can bet your bottom dollar that there will be more injuries than have already cropped up. The likely Welsh side for the Australia game is inextricably linked with the demands placed upon them, which is why mention of the WRU (in this case) is justified.

I understand that Sam Warburton may not be fit enough for the Ais. So i was wanting too know who would be captain? Would it be AWJ, or Ryan Jones?

majesticimperialman wrote:I understand that Sam Warburton may not be fit enough for the Ais. So i was wanting too know who would be captain? Would it be AWJ, or Ryan Jones?

Like most questions answered here Madge, mere suppositions of the permutations that may or may not unroll.

There is for one no guaranty that Warburton will miss the game, neither that AWJ or Ryan Jones will be fit or on form or that any of the many other successful and experienced captains in the likely Welsh squad may not be preferred alternatives.

Cyril wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:Adam, Gethin, Ian, Alyn wyn and Hibbard will all be available and will destroy the weak Aussie scrum, we HAVE to beat them it's not an option.

We'll lend you Corbs if you want, just to make sure like

Yes please Cyril I would take Corbs over Jenkins.

In the past Gatland has not picked AWJ as Welsh captain which was why it was a bit of a surprise when he choose him for the Lions.

With Warburton possibly out it will be very interesting to see who he might pick, could he really ignore a Lions winning captain?

majesticimperialman wrote:I understand that Sam Warburton may not be fit enough for the Ais. So i was wanting too know who would be captain? Would it be AWJ, or Ryan Jones?

Ryan Jones and Gethin Jenkins are still ahead of AWJ I imagine, although all 3 could do the job.

Warburton is supposed to be fit before the first AI anyway.

All things goin well, no injuries etc, we will be missing :

1st choice wing
1st choice centre (inside/outside depends on where Foxy gets played)
1st choice scrum half
1st choice blindside
Bench loosehead
Bench tighthead

That seems like a hell of a lot but we have a number of options whi can/have filled in those shirts before, and imo are not too far behind in quality.

606,

Could he ignore AWJs claims for captaincy now though?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:All things goin well, no injuries etc, we will be missing :

1st choice wing
1st choice centre (inside/outside depends on where Foxy gets played)
1st choice scrum half
1st choice blindside
Bench loosehead
Bench tighthead

That seems like a hell of a lot but we have a number of options whi can/have filled in those shirts before, and imo are not too far behind in quality.

SS,

Don't forget deals have been done in the past with players outside Wales so no guarantee they all ruled out yet, we need to develop a No9 anyway so could be blessing in disguise.

Yeah there is no certainty they will all be missing for the same game, all depends on what deals are struck, depending on what games the french clubs have and when.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Yeah there is no certainty they will all be missing for the same game, all depends on what deals are struck, depending on what games the french clubs have and when.

In all honesty Phillips or Mitchell not being available wouldn't be that big a loss as need to develop them areas.

I HATE YOU WELSH

Half the 1st team sunning themselves in France and ahem England and you still come up with a mouth watering set of players......  

15. Liam Williams
14. Alex Cuthbert
11. Leigh Halfpenny

13. Scott Williams
12. Jon Davies

10. Dan Biggar
9. Gareth Davies

8. Ryan Jones (C)
7. Justin Tipuric
6. Aaron Shingler

5. Bradley Davies
4. AW Jones

3. Adam Jones
2. Ken Owens
1. Jenkins

16. Ryan Bevington
17. Richard Hibbard
18. Samson Lee
19. Ian Evans
20. Josh Turnbull
21. Lloyd Williams
22. Priestland/Patchell
23. Beck

1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Richard Hibbard
3. Adam Jones
4. Alun Wyn Jones
5. Ian Evans
6. Ryan Jones
7. Sam Warburton
8. Toby Faletau
9. Lloyd Williams
10. Dan Biggar
11. Liam Williams
12. Scott Williams
13. Jonathan Davies
14. Alex Cuthbert
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Ken Owens
17. Ryan Bevington
18. Scott Andrews
19. Bradley Davies
20. Justin Tipuric
21. Gareth Davies?
22. Rhys Preistland/Rhys Patchell
23. Ashley Beck

wales606 wrote:1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Richard Hibbard
3. Adam Jones
4. Alun Wyn Jones
5. Ian Evans
6. Ryan Jones
7. Sam Warburton
8. Toby Faletau
9. Lloyd Williams
10. Dan Biggar
11. Liam Williams
12. Scott Williams
13. Jonathan Davies
14. Alex Cuthbert
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Ken Owens
17. Ryan Bevington
18. Scott Andrews
19. Bradley Davies
20. Justin Tipuric
21. Gareth Davies?
22. Rhys Preistland/Rhys Patchell
23. Ashley Beck

606,

IF none of the players in England or France were available then thats pretty much the team I would like to see, the only one area of concern for me would be Williams at No9 then again we really are struggling in that area I think.

If players were available then I would swap

James or Gill for Jenkins
Lydiate for R Jones
Roberts for Sc Williams
North for Li Williams

No9 would still be a problem even if Phillips was available as I really think we need to look elsewhere now but where, G Davies or J Evans maybe I don't really have an answer.

Scrum half is the interesting selection, beyond Mike Phillips.

In Gatlands tenure we have seen Phillips, Peel, Roberts, Rees, Williams, Knoyle and Webb. Other than Phillips no one has made claim to the shirt. Peel is past his best so not really an option.

Beyond there is some great Scrumhalfs coming through, Aled Williams, Rhodri Williams, Tom Habberfield. As well as the more experienced Jonny Evans.

It's a position we have a wealth of talent in.

Maes,

There are players out there but the ones we have used recently (Williams and Knoyle) really haven't taken their chances when they have come, which means we have always reverted back to type and selected Phillips.

Now not saying thats a bad thing as he has proven time and again he has the style of play suited to Gatlands gameplan but when he gets caught out as he did in the 1st Lions test he seems unable to change his style.

If he's not going to be available for the Australia game then I would honestly not use him for the other 3 games either and give one of the others (whoever that maybe) a good run of games.

Beds,

I wouldn't eject Phillips all together, give decent length games to understudies but we need to put out our best.

Plus I don't see why everyone thinks our French based players won't be available. Phillips played in the Australia game last year after negotiations between RC Bayonne and the WRU.

The WRU seem to get on very well with the French clubs these days.

Maes,

Agreed there are always deals to be done and not saying eject him totally but his understudies will only get better with gametime so lets give it to them.

If Phillips isn't available for the Oz game then I think whoever plays would need to have had at least 2 of the other games under their belt as well.

Beds you are right...!

That said lets see what happens, the French clubs seem to be keen to let their Welsh players play international rugby. The WRU and the French clubs have a good rapport.

We do need to blood players into certain positions and it would be great to see a few new names tried out in the cauldron this autumn...

Looking at the young players involved, who are your tips for 2013-14 season bolters?

I'd have Patchell, Jordan Williams and Rhodri Williams as bolters

Patchell is certainly a possible bolter. Watched him last season for Cardiff against Edinburgh at Murrayfield and he was excellent - a very composed player.

If Jordan gets played on the wing for the Scarlets I think he may get capped in the AIs, he would be a very good alternative to the brute force wings we have.