'prime mike tyson'

by wheelchair1991 Fri 19 Jul 2013, 12:39 pm

First topic message reminder :

I am a regular viewer of these boards and have been since it was the old 606 o the bbc website, one thing that perplexes me is the 'prime tyson' myth which has developed and is contiually talked about on these boards

tyson was no doubt great in the mid to late 80's but:
1 the division was poor in my view
2. his 'peak' was short and therefore does not deserve the credit it gets
3. when he should have been at his 'peak' he did not deliver

what are your guys views?

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:04 pm

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Whoa whoa there Beefster. He as much as retired undefeated, avenging both losses.

You've also used Bruno and Tucker to champion Tyson, so use them for Lewis. Add in Golota, Tua, Grant, Holyfield (don't tell me he was washed up or shot), Botha, Ruddock, Tyson, Klitschko and McCall and you have an impressive set of wins there.

He may have lost to average fighters, but he righted those wrongs. Thats the mark of a top 5 ATG if ever there was one. Tyson never went back and beat Buster, he also lost his rematch with Holyfield by biting him. You want this man above Lewis?

Mccall was ill when Lewis beat him the second time.....Bruno outboxed him early.........and he never beat anybody top class in their prime.......

Not to say he doesn't belong in the top 8/15...........

Ruddock - Slapped twice by mike Tyson......Underestimated wins for Mike.......
Holy - Owned by Bowe twice......
Tyson - Half dead........
Mercer - Contentious........Larry outboxed him..

I like Lewis wish he was around now but not a top 5 that's for sure.

by Duty281 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:11 pm

Lennox Lewis' sheer size would give any HW problems. Then add in his resume:

Tucker, Bruno, Ruddock, Golota, Briggs, Holyfield, Grant, Tua, Botha, Rahman, Tyson, Klitschko.

Beat everyone he ever faced. His two main rivals of the era, Holyfield and Tyson, were both s**t scared of him. Never ducked anyone, fought and beat every main contender of his era - apart from Bowe who, like Holyfield and Tyson, was s**t scared of him. Never lost a decision. Was possibly only outboxed once, against Bruno, but had enough power to get through.

Formidable jab, powerful right hand, iron chin, underrated speed, and brilliant defence. Foreman and Ali actually both go a step further than me; they both think Lewis was the greatest HW of all time.

by **superflyweight** Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:13 pm

Top 5 way too high for Lewis.

I've got him in the bracket of fighters between about 8 and 12 and who are interchangeable in terms of ranking. Tyson also in that bracket along with Frazier, Liston and Holyfield and I can never make my mind where each of them rank. Tyson and Lewis probably make the top 10 more often than not, but there are plenty of valid arguments against their inclusion.

If ranking on a head head basis - both Lewis and Tyson are duking it out for a place somwehere in the top 5 along with Ali, Foreman and Holmes.

by TopHat24/7 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:13 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
JabMachineMK2 wrote:Whoa whoa there Beefster. He as much as retired undefeated, avenging both losses.

You've also used Bruno and Tucker to champion Tyson, so use them for Lewis. Add in Golota, Tua, Grant, Holyfield (don't tell me he was washed up or shot), Botha, Ruddock, Tyson, Klitschko and McCall and you have an impressive set of wins there.

He may have lost to average fighters, but he righted those wrongs. Thats the mark of a top 5 ATG if ever there was one. Tyson never went back and beat Buster, he also lost his rematch with Holyfield by biting him. You want this man above Lewis?

Mccall was ill when Lewis beat him the second time.....Bruno outboxed him early.........and he never beat anybody top class in their prime.......

Not to say he doesn't belong in the top 8/15...........

Ruddock - Slapped twice by mike Tyson......Underestimated wins for Mike.......
Holy - Owned by Bowe twice......
Tyson - Half dead........
Mercer - Contentious........Larry outboxed him..

I like Lewis wish he was around now but not a top 5 that's for sure.

Holy may have been 'owned' twice by Bowe, but Bowe was 'owned' twice by Golota who Lennox tore through with ease.

Also, discrediting wins just because a couple of rounds may not have been plain sailing is a pony excuse if ever there was one, as is McCall being 'ill'.

by JabMachineMK2 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:13 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Mccall was ill when Lewis beat him the second time.....Bruno outboxed him early.........and he never beat anybody top class in their prime.......

Not to say he doesn't belong in the top 8/15...........

Ruddock - Slapped twice by mike Tyson......Underestimated wins for Mike.......
Holy - Owned by Bowe twice......
Tyson - Half dead........
Mercer - Contentious........Larry outboxed him..

I like Lewis wish he was around now but not a top 5 that's for sure.

He still avenged his losses. Think you're diminshing Lewis' wins to be detrimental personally in contrast to how you count on Tysons records by saying that his win over Bruno is a great win, but won't attribute the same to Lewis, same as with Ruddock. You've also ignored my mention of Grant, he was considered to class and in his prime until Lewis beat him. You've ignored Tua, who was knocking people out for fun until he met Lewis. We know that Bowe wouldn't face Lewis, but he destroyed Golota and Bowe only had those wins through DQ's. Klitschko was a great boxer at the time and he was stopped by Lewis. As much as you want to have Lewis outside a top 5, I really can't see how.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:14 pm

Oh no we are going down the Bowe was s**t scared of him route........

When Lewis did lose he did it in style...I'll give him that..

Rahman and mccall weren't s**t scared of him.........and you're right about frank .....Winning the early rounds against him.....

Didn't win a round against Tyson in two fights though...

How many times did Golota beat Bowe.

by TopHat24/7 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:15 pm

superflyweight wrote:Top 5 way too high for Lewis.

I've got him in the bracket of fighters between about 8 and 12 and who are interchangeable in terms of ranking. Tyson also in that bracket along with Frazier, Liston and Holyfield and I can never make my mind where each of them rank. Tyson and Lewis probably make the top 10 more often than not, but there are plenty of valid arguments against their inclusion.

If ranking on a head head basis - both Lewis and Tyson are duking it out for a place somwehere in the top 5 along with Ali, Foreman and Holmes.

good summary and pretty much how I see it.

Super, on a head to head basis, where would you put each of the K's??

by JabMachineMK2 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:17 pm

The way Frank Bruno boxed was never going to attribute well to fighting Tyson. Remember that different boxers fight differently. Who won that fight between Lewis and Bruno? Was it the notoriously slow starting Lewis who started to turn up the heat? Yes. So stop making out he lost.

Rahman and McCall are two better losses to have on your record and to go back and beat them than an unavenged loss against Buster Douglas and of course....Danny Williams.

by Duty281 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:19 pm

I'm sure if Lewis was American, and shot his mouth off like Tyson, then he'd probably be seen as a universal top 5 ATG HW.

by JabMachineMK2 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:19 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:How many times did Golota beat Bowe.

You can't claim that if you're going to say "Lewis was losing against Bruno" because Golota was beating Bowe, he was just stupid and got DQ'ed twice. You don't seem to enjoy having your own arguments leveled against you, you're being awfully selective when you choose what you talk about. What about Grant? Not a top fighter in his prime?

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:19 pm

Tyson - Bruno was a style thing right..........So because Lewis was taller he should get owned with a jab.......

Seen Mercer-Lewis ??? any excuses for struggling with a guy a 42 year old Holmes handled with ease........or was that styles too......

I asked how many times Golota beat an old and past it Bowe..

by TopHat24/7 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:21 pm

So, in other words, pick you favourite fighter and apply a totally different set of rules to him as to the guy you're comparing him with. Classy clap

by Duty281 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:23 pm

Bowe - Threw his belt in the bin. Wouldn't accept a winner-takes-all showdown.
Holyfield - Lewis had to sue Holyfield to get him in the ring.
Tyson - Paid Lewis $4 million to step aside.

All three of these, absolutely petrified of Lennox Lewis. Lennox Lewis, the greatest HW since Ali.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:23 pm

Tyson isn't my favorite fighter...........and you've already admitted you don't know as much as me about Boxing.. Cool

Jabby does so why not bow out gracefully..

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:24 pm

Duty281 wrote:Bowe - Threw his belt in the bin. Wouldn't accept a winner-takes-all showdown.
Holyfield - Lewis had to sue Holyfield to get him in the ring.
Tyson - Paid Lewis $4 million to step aside.

All three of these, absolutely petrified of Lennox Lewis. Lennox Lewis, the greatest HW since Ali.

How many winner takes all showdowns have there been ??
Holy was obviously scared stiff.........

Ali would have soiled his trousers too...........

by JabMachineMK2 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:25 pm

He didn't beat him. How many times did Mercer beat Lewis? How many times did Bruno beat Lewis?

Same argument. Struggling with certain boxers happens. Explain Tyson going the distance with some boxers? Bonecrusher Smith? Mitch Green? Tillis? Lets not hold WINS against the man.

by Duty281 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:26 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Bowe - Threw his belt in the bin. Wouldn't accept a winner-takes-all showdown.
Holyfield - Lewis had to sue Holyfield to get him in the ring.
Tyson - Paid Lewis $4 million to step aside.

All three of these, absolutely petrified of Lennox Lewis. Lennox Lewis, the greatest HW since Ali.

How many winner takes all showdowns have there been ??
Holy was obviously scared stiff.........

Ali would have soiled his trousers too...........

Where's my big book of quotes? Oh hang on a sec:

Ali was with Lewis at a Canadian Football League ceremony to celebrate Lewis' KO of Tyson. "I'm here because I was the greatest," he told an ecstatic crowd in Toronto. "I'm now no longer the greatest. He's the greatest, he's the champ," he said, pointing to Lennox Lewis.

by manos de piedra Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:28 pm

I wouldnt have Lewis top 5. I think he was slightly fortunate with the timing of his career and he retrospectively gets overcredited with the extent of his dominance and many of his wins. He didnt dominate the division when it was strongest in the 1990-1997 period. He eventually took over when the division began flagging and an ageing Holyfield represented the last of what was a strongish period in the early to mid 1990s.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:29 pm

Did Tyson struggle with Bonecrusher?? won every round and Tillis put in a good performance but that was pre-title when he was learning..........Mercer was post-title..

Mercer won in some eyes.........I had it a draw............

Ali said Louis was the greatest..........must have changed his mind...Great quote!!

by Rowley Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:30 pm

Think I am with superfly in having Lewis around the 8-12 mark but at the minute is probably at the lower reaches of the top ten. Don’t much care for the picking apart records because it can be pretty much done with every fighter where any opponent can have an asterix attached to him, be it past it, green, mental, under prepared or whatever.

However what stops Lewis occupying a top five slot for me is the two losses and the nature of them. Is far too easy to say such things can happen in heavyweight boxing, but can anyone name another top tier heavyweight who got splattered during his title reign twice off pretty ordinary opposition. Fair play for avenging them but avenging defeats does not erase them. Once is about forgivable, twice suggests a serious flaw in a fighters make up.

Duty providing a quote from Ali proves nothing. I have in the past provided a quote from Holmes where he pretty much describes Lewis as a bum, give or take. No more means it is right than Ali saying the polar opposite.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:32 pm

Rowley wrote:Think I am with superfly in having Lewis around the 8-12 mark but at the minute is probably at the lower reaches of the top ten. Don’t much care for the picking apart records because it can be pretty much done with every fighter where any opponent can have an asterix attached to him, be it past it, green, mental, under prepared or whatever.

However what stops Lewis occupying a top five slot for me is the two losses and the nature of them. Is far too easy to say such things can happen in heavyweight boxing, but can anyone name another top tier heavyweight who got splattered during his title reign twice off pretty ordinary opposition. Fair play for avenging them but avenging defeats does not erase them. Once is about forgivable, twice suggests a serious flaw in a fighters make up.

Duty providing a quote from Ali proves nothing. I have in the past provided a quote from Holmes where he pretty much describes Lewis as a bum, give or take. No more means it is right than Ali saying the polar opposite.

Captain said it was the bruno fight that he held more against lewis than his losses I recall..........Becaus ehe was outboxed by a one dimensional plodder with a good jab......

I can accept the losses........just for me like Wlad has never beaten a top guy at his peak.........

by JabMachineMK2 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:34 pm

Like Haye you mean?

by Duty281 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:36 pm

Rowley wrote:Think I am with superfly in having Lewis around the 8-12 mark but at the minute is probably at the lower reaches of the top ten. Don’t much care for the picking apart records because it can be pretty much done with every fighter where any opponent can have an asterix attached to him, be it past it, green, mental, under prepared or whatever.

However what stops Lewis occupying a top five slot for me is the two losses and the nature of them. Is far too easy to say such things can happen in heavyweight boxing, but can anyone name another top tier heavyweight who got splattered during his title reign twice off pretty ordinary opposition. Fair play for avenging them but avenging defeats does not erase them. Once is about forgivable, twice suggests a serious flaw in a fighters make up.

Duty providing a quote from Ali proves nothing. I have in the past provided a quote from Holmes where he pretty much describes Lewis as a bum, give or take. No more means it is right than Ali saying the polar opposite.

Surely being knocked out by one punch, is a better way to lose than being outboxed and losing on the scorecards? Besides, that loss to McCall was a pre-prime version of Lewis. It was Lewis before he was trained by Steward. It was actually the best thing to ever happen to Lewis, I'd argue. The Rahman loss was pretty poor, but Lewis avenged it in devastating style.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:39 pm

Steward basically told Mccall to just wait for lewis lazy right and then throw yours.........

Laughably simple................

Difference is most great heavies get stiffened at the end of their careers not in their primes..

Let's look at holy...........Got a contentious draw first time out and lost a close second fight.........The same guy that Bowe beat easily and knocked out in their third fight..........Holy was 8/1 against Tyson..........

Easy to forget facts like that..........

by **88Chris05** Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:43 pm

Lewis doesn't crack my top five either, though he would make my top ten.

It's been pointed out several times, but it's such an oddity that we see Lewis primary as a nineties Heavyweight - and yet, if we look at the best of the nineties crop (so Holyfield, Bowe, Tyson, Moorer, even old man Foreman etc), his record against them is either non-existent or marked down with a bit of an asterisk; no fights at all against Moorer, Bowe or Foreman (not all his fault, of course), didn't fight Holyfield until the very, very back end of the decade and when Evander, while still a fine fighter, wasn't quite at his sparkling best, and didn't fight Tyson until 2002, by which point Tyson was plainly washed up and a complete shell just making up the numbers. Fine wins on Lewis' record they certainly are, but men such as Mercer (and in fairness, Lewis was a shade lucky to get the win in that one, for me), Ruddock, Bruno and Briggs aren't quite from the same cloth as the aforementioned.

Just goes to show that this revisionism about how Lewis supposedly dominated his era does get overblown just a little.

Certainly threatens a top five if we look purely at a 'who beats who?' basis I'd think, but his actual career doesn't quite match up to that, for me. We can excuse away the defeats to McCall and Rahman all we want, and in fairness the way he avenged them both is to be admired, but the fact remains that seldom has another Heavyweight champion fallen to such embarrassing defeats while smack bang in the middle (or around) of their prime years / title reigns once, never mind twice.

Great, great fighter mind you, and capable of the sublime when in full flow, but not a top five Heavyweight for me.

by TopHat24/7 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:45 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Tyson isn't my favorite fighter...........and you've already admitted you don't know as much as me about Boxing..

Jabby does so why not bow out gracefully..

'Favourite' in the context of this debate. Keep up.

by azania Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:45 pm

Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Bowe - Threw his belt in the bin. Wouldn't accept a winner-takes-all showdown.
Holyfield - Lewis had to sue Holyfield to get him in the ring.
Tyson - Paid Lewis $4 million to step aside.

All three of these, absolutely petrified of Lennox Lewis. Lennox Lewis, the greatest HW since Ali.

How many winner takes all showdowns have there been ??
Holy was obviously scared stiff.........

Ali would have soiled his trousers too...........

Where's my big book of quotes? Oh hang on a sec:

Ali was with Lewis at a Canadian Football League ceremony to celebrate Lewis' KO of Tyson. "I'm here because I was the greatest," he told an ecstatic crowd in Toronto. "I'm now no longer the greatest. He's the greatest, he's the champ," he said, pointing to Lennox Lewis.

So why not have Lewis at #1?

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:47 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Tyson isn't my favorite fighter...........and you've already admitted you don't know as much as me about Boxing..

Jabby does so why not bow out gracefully..

'Favourite' in the context of this debate. Keep up.

I tend to move on to the next post when I see your name at the top of one..

by TopHat24/7 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:48 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Tyson isn't my favorite fighter...........and you've already admitted you don't know as much as me about Boxing..

Jabby does so why not bow out gracefully..

'Favourite' in the context of this debate. Keep up.

I tend to move on to the next post when I see your name at the top of one..

You're just in a mood because you've got nowhere to prattle on about meaningless opinion polls anymore..........

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:48 pm

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Like Haye you mean?

You think Haye is a top heavy ??

by JabMachineMK2 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:50 pm

I think at the moment he is one of the top heavies of the era, yes.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:51 pm

JabMachineMK2 wrote:I think at the moment he is one of the top heavies of the era, yes.

Yet you give no credit to Tyson for beating Spinks who beat Larry twice (one contentious)........Did spinks beat better fighters at heavy than Haye ??

by Rowley Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:52 pm

JabMachineMK2 wrote:I think at the moment he is one of the top heavies of the era, yes.

In all fairness there was a time the same was true of Primo Carnera.

by azania Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:54 pm

The Canadian Lewis is top 15. The British Lewis is top 5. God save the queen.

by JabMachineMK2 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:54 pm

I didn't say I don't give him credit, please don't put words in my mouth. I'm saying that right now, if you were to make a heavyweight top 5, Haye would be in it, he'd have to be. That makes him a top heavy, and the fact Wlad beat him, adds to Wlads career standing. Lewis beat plenty of "top" heavies, as did Tyson. You seem to assume as I champion Lewis I'm rubbishing Tyson. I'm not, my opinion is that his career, longevity and style makes him a better candidate for top 5 ATG Heavyweight than Tyson.

by JabMachineMK2 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:54 pm

azania wrote:The Canadian Lewis is top 15. The British Lewis is top 5. God save the queen.

Usual xenophobic tripe. Back on ignore. Honestly, I can't even give you 5 minutes.

by azania Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:56 pm

JabMachineMK2 wrote:
azania wrote:The Canadian Lewis is top 15. The British Lewis is top 5. God save the queen.

Usual xenophobic tripe. Back on ignore. Honestly, I can't even give you 5 minutes.

Put me back on your ignore list you muppet.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:57 pm

JabMachineMK2 wrote:I didn't say I don't give him credit, please don't put words in my mouth. I'm saying that right now, if you were to make a heavyweight top 5, Haye would be in it, he'd have to be. That makes him a top heavy, and the fact Wlad beat him, adds to Wlads career standing. Lewis beat plenty of "top" heavies, as did Tyson. You seem to assume as I champion Lewis I'm rubbishing Tyson. I'm not, my opinion is that his career, longevity and style makes him a better candidate for top 5 ATG Heavyweight than Tyson.

Then you have Wlad top 10 as well ??

by JabMachineMK2 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:58 pm

No, I have Wlad hovering around 13/14 - think if he beats Povetkin and Fury/Haye/Wilder at some point in the next few years he cements himself inside a top 10.

by azania Mon 22 Jul 2013, 2:59 pm

If tyson were British many of his detractors would rank him higher.

Top 10 for me but in terms of head to head only Ali would win most. Add Holmes. The rest would go through hell to win and I doubt Lewis had that in him.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 3:01 pm

JabMachineMK2 wrote:No, I have Wlad hovering around 13/14 - think if he beats Povetkin and Fury/Haye/Wilder at some point in the next few years he cements himself inside a top 10.

You are fighting your corner well.........But you'd give Wlad top 10 status for Wilder and Povetkin?

So they are better than ........Tubbs, Biggs, Williams, Tucker, Bruno, Holmes, Spinks and Thomas ???

by milkyboy Mon 22 Jul 2013, 3:11 pm

manos de piedra wrote:I wouldnt have Lewis top 5. I think he was slightly fortunate with the timing of his career and he retrospectively gets overcredited with the extent of his dominance and many of his wins. He didnt dominate the division when it was strongest in the 1990-1997 period. He eventually took over when the division began flagging and an ageing Holyfield represented the last of what was a strongish period in the early to mid 1990s.

Probably true about not dominating between 1990 and 1997. The McCall fight froze him out for a while. In fact that fight shaped the 90's heavy scene more than any other. Lewis came out of it with a new trainer and a more conservative approach, and the others with a reason/excuse to avoid fighting him for a while. It's a shame in many respects as it stopped the potential of the bigger names fighting near their respective peaks, and making these debates a bit simpler.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 3:13 pm

Which other big names would have been at their peaks Milky ??

by TopHat24/7 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 3:17 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Which other big names would have been at their peaks Milky ??

Well 1994 would get you prime Holy and Bowe, plus Michael Moorer and a better Tyson.

by manos de piedra Mon 22 Jul 2013, 3:17 pm

milkyboy wrote:
manos de piedra wrote:I wouldnt have Lewis top 5. I think he was slightly fortunate with the timing of his career and he retrospectively gets overcredited with the extent of his dominance and many of his wins. He didnt dominate the division when it was strongest in the 1990-1997 period. He eventually took over when the division began flagging and an ageing Holyfield represented the last of what was a strongish period in the early to mid 1990s.

Probably true about not dominating between 1990 and 1997. The McCall fight froze him out for a while. In fact that fight shaped the 90's heavy scene more than any other. Lewis came out of it with a new trainer and a more conservative approach, and the others with a reason/excuse to avoid fighting him for a while. It's a shame in many respects as it stopped the potential of the bigger names fighting near their respective peaks, and making these debates a bit simpler.

Unfortunately what could have been a quality era as glimpsed at in the first Bowe/Holyfield fight never truly came off. Tyson went to prison and imploded, Bowe got out of shape, Lewis hadnt really developed fully, Douglas surrended all the momentum he had after the Tyson upset etc

by milkyboy Mon 22 Jul 2013, 3:18 pm

I meant he would most likely have fought Tyson and holy earlier and bowe has he not walked onto McCall's right hand

by manos de piedra Mon 22 Jul 2013, 3:23 pm

More than likely I would say. Or even Foreman, Holmes or Moorer.

by TopHat24/7 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 3:27 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Which other big names would have been at their peaks Milky ??

Well 1994 would get you prime Holy and Bowe, plus Michael Moorer and a better Tyson and a tail-end Holmes.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 3:28 pm

milkyboy wrote:I meant he would most likely have fought Tyson and holy earlier and bowe has he not walked onto McCall's right hand

Not sure Holmes would add anything back then..........Moorer exposed Foreman...........Big miss is obviously Riddick bowe......The defining fight he never had........Top 10 for sure If riddick is added..

Not Lewis fault though.

by JabMachineMK2 Mon 22 Jul 2013, 3:36 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
JabMachineMK2 wrote:No, I have Wlad hovering around 13/14 - think if he beats Povetkin and Fury/Haye/Wilder at some point in the next few years he cements himself inside a top 10.

You are fighting your corner well.........But you'd give Wlad top 10 status for Wilder and Povetkin?

So they are better than ........Tubbs, Biggs, Williams, Tucker, Bruno, Holmes, Spinks and Thomas ???

Not just them no, but it would be almost a decade of dominance, beating every single heavyweight that presented a challenge - you can't ignore that. We can't base Wlads career based on the misgivings of the era otherwise we'd have Marciano outside a top 15 which would be ridiculous.

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