Irish board faces cash crisis

[profitius]

Irish board faces cash crisis


The woes of the Irish economy has impacted on sales of five- and ten-year debenture tickets meaning the Irish Rugby Football Union is facing a deficit of €26 million (£22m) on projected revenue figures.

The board had expected to make around €40 million (£34.5m) from the sale but only managed €14 million. Less than half the 3,700 tickets that recently went on sale for €9,000 and €5,500 were actually sold and these will now be made available on a match-by-match basis.

The news means the IRFU will have to borrow to fund the professional game and hope that sales improve and IRFU chief executive Philip Browne admitted this will mean the the funding of all professional squads will need to be reduced.

"We've been to the market and the it has said what it has said, we sold just under 50% of the tickets," Browne told the Irish Times. "We will all have to tighten our belts but we are going to continue to operate at the levels we are at. We will continue to fund four professional teams and the national team and the domestic game.

"It is business as usual we are just going to have to borrow to fund that cash deficit over the next six years."

Treasurer Tom Grace told the IRFU's AGM that borrowing was the only option as operations were heavily dependent on the national team and the income it brought.

"[They're] the key provider for all activities undertaken by the union. Without the dividend this generates there would be no IRFU funding for provincial teams and consequently the branches would be relying on what they themselves can generate.

"There is absolutely no doubt that times are hard but we are extremely fortunate that we have managed our cash conservatively over the last number of years. The disappointing result with the sale of 10-year tickets reflects what is happening in the economy."


http://www.espn.co.uk/ireland/rugby/story/191117.html

Interesting article. Not only is the economy at play but I also believe the lack of demand is down to how the team have played over the last 3 years. Would you pay big money to watch that rubbish? I wouldn't even if I was a millionaire.

[Notch]

They totally overestimated demand to watch the national team. They should sell 10 year tickets for the provinces and they would go, easily.

[Notch]

It's unfortunate that they weren't selling them when we were actually good, before 2007 when the Celtic Tiger and BOD were roaring equally loudly...

[profitius]

They would probably be better off holding off trying to sell them for a season or two and hope Schmidt can transform things on the pitch.

[Biltong]

Tell me, how much funding does the Irish Football Union give to the regions?

[Notch]

Has anyone ever seen a single advert for these tickets by the way? How many people were even aware this is a thing?

I've never seen these marketed to the general public which is quite strange when apparently our whole financial future was staked on selling them!

[profitius]

Tell me, how much funding does the Irish Football Union give to the regions?

About €23.4m.

[Feckless Rogue]

Has anyone ever seen a single advert for these tickets by the way? How many people were even aware this is a thing?

I've never seen these marketed to the general public which is quite strange when apparently our whole financial future was staked on selling them!

Ha. That's true Notch. I've never seen a single advert for them. Not that I could afford one.

Demand will increase if the team play well. The IRFU just have to devote themselves to putting an excellent team on the field with the money they have. Hiring Schmidt was a good start.

With the money in French rugby seemingly going up and the opposite trend in Ireland I wonder will we see more of our best players leaving.

[LeinsterFan4life]

Will the provinces have to leave the shackles of the IRFU and try find investors?

[Biltong]

Tell me, how much funding does the Irish Football Union give to the regions?

About €23.4m.

Thanks, your project has to go.  

[profitius]

Interestingly PUMA paid out over €11m to break their long term contract with the IRFU. A new kit supplier will be announced soon but probably for less money so the €11m won't count for much.


So how will this effect Irish rugby? With the French becoming richer and richer we'll possibly see one or two more going to France. It depends on the dept there. Sexton was let go because we have a few new 10s. One thing is for sure, I don't think we'll see many big name signings from the southern hemisphere for a while. That trend is already happening.

Tell me, how much funding does the Irish Football Union give to the regions?

About €23.4m.

Thanks, your project has to go.  

I shouldn't have said 'about'! The €23.4m is accurate  


Connacht gets a bit less than the other 3 teams so I reckon it could be in the region of: Munster, Ulster and Leinster = €6m each and Connacht = €5.4m. I'm not sure if the central contracts are included in the €23.4m figure.

[Sin é]

Interestingly PUMA paid out over €11m to break their long term contract with the IRFU. A new kit supplier will be announced soon but probably for less money so the €11m won't count for much.


So how will this effect Irish rugby? With the French becoming richer and richer we'll possibly see one or two more going to France. It depends on the dept there. Sexton was let go because we have a few new 10s. One thing is for sure, I don't think we'll see many big name signings from the southern hemisphere for a while. That trend is already happening.

Tell me, how much funding does the Irish Football Union give to the regions?

About €23.4m.

Thanks, your project has to go.  

I shouldn't have said 'about'! The €23.4m is accurate  


Connacht gets a bit less than the other 3 teams so I reckon it could be in the region of: Munster, Ulster and Leinster = €6m each and Connacht = €5.4m. I'm not sure if the central contracts are included in the €23.4m figure.

11.5m was breach of contract compensation. Money for old rope.

[Brendan]

It is a cash shortage rather then a loss. The extra money could have been used for capital stuff but it isn't saying a loss.

I think that if the european deal doesn't work Ireland should look to replace it with either the provical league as that would get lots of money from attendances and sell it to sky or BT or play more internationals outside the international window.

[The Saint]

They totally overestimated demand to watch the national team. They should sell 10 year tickets for the provinces and they would go, easily.

Did they? A Munster versus Leinster fixture can sell out the Aviva stadium. That very stadium always seems at maximum capacity for Ireland games. What have the attendance figures actually been like?

[profitius]

They totally overestimated demand to watch the national team. They should sell 10 year tickets for the provinces and they would go, easily.

Did they? A Munster versus Leinster fixture can sell out the Aviva stadium. That very stadium always seems at maximum capacity for Ireland games. What have the attendance figures actually been like?

Its those 10 year ticket sales. People pay thousands for them but they've a ticket for a decade. It looks like the IRFU only sold half what they expected. I wouldn't blame people for not renewing. The last few seasons have been poor value for money.

[Shifty]

Looks like Ireland might be going the same way as Wales

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

They totally overestimated demand to watch the national team. They should sell 10 year tickets for the provinces and they would go, easily.

Did they? A Munster versus Leinster fixture can sell out the Aviva stadium. That very stadium always seems at maximum capacity for Ireland games. What have the attendance figures actually been like?

Yes.

It all started when Lansdowne rd re opened. 6N have been ok, but they have never sold the place out for a non 6N game.

The 1st year (Autumn 2010) They (IRFU) decided to charge 100 Juros per ticket for EVERY seat in the house. Including some with very poor views (considering the stadium was freshly built)
Not only that, but they sold them as a 4 match pack ONLY.

Massive miscalculation. They had gone from 70 to 75 thousand the previous autumn in croker, to a stadium that only holds 51000. I suppose they just thought they could charge what they liked.

By the end of the series they were selling half price individual tickets and restricted view tickets singley. Even at that they came nowhere near selling out. 30000 for Samoa and Argentina, 35000 for South Africa and even the All Blacks were about 5 or 6 k short of a sell out.

Mixture of factors.

A/ 2008 Recession was really beginning to kick in.

B/ The shine had worn off the 2009 Grand slam at that point and serious tactical and selectorial questions were being asked.

C/ Arrogance of the IRFU in thinking people would fork out 400 bucks before they had bought a pint or a burger, or before those from the ends of the country had booked a hotel.

Imagine being one of the poor bastids who paid 100 quid to watch Samoa from the upper corner of the south stand where the screens are obstructed and the ball disappears when kicked high.

There were 2 games pre WC 2011 and last year's AIs and none of them have sold out. SA last Nov came the closest.

[Notch]

They totally overestimated demand to watch the national team. They should sell 10 year tickets for the provinces and they would go, easily.

Did they? A Munster versus Leinster fixture can sell out the Aviva stadium. That very stadium always seems at maximum capacity for Ireland games. What have the attendance figures actually been like?

A Munster vs Leinster game is a much, much more enticing prospect for the fans out there. I've only been in the stadium when it's near sold out once (at home versus England) and tbh it put me off going back. Not just because the rugby was terrible, although most games in the 6N are pretty dull are therefore overpriced, because the whole matchday experience is bad. Congestion is crazy- you can't get to a bar, you can't get to a toilet because the crowds are so massive and packed into a small space.

[yappysnap]

[quote="Notch"]

They totally overestimated demand to watch the national team. They should sell 10 year tickets for the provinces and they would go, easily.

Did they? A Munster versus Leinster fixture can sell out the Aviva stadium. That very stadium always seems at maximum capacity for Ireland games. What have the attendance figures actually been like?

A Munster vs Leinster game is a much, much more enticing prospect for the fans out there. I've only been in the stadium when it's near sold out once (at home versus England) and tbh it put me off going back. Not just because the rugby was terrible, although most games in the 6N are pretty dull are therefore overpriced, because the whole matchday experience is bad. Congestion is crazy- you can't get to a bar, you can't get to a toilet because the crowds are so massive and packed into a small space.[/quote]

Just out of curiosity have you been to any other countries stadiums for big internationals? I've been to Twickenham for a few different games and there are always similar issues, same in Italy when I went there as well. Do any stadiums have good facilities?

[Notch]

I've been to Murrayfield and Twickenham and it doesn't even compare. Yes, there are queues but I spent 20 minutes trying to push my way towards the blydi queue at the Aviva.

[Scrumdown]

is the aviva stadium mortgaged by the IRFU i.e does it have a loan to repay or could it raise finance using the stadium as security?

[rodders]

Yikes!
 
The IRFU might have to look for the money ROG owes them back....

[Sin é]

The IRFU owe something like 33m on the Aviva. The sale of 10 year tickets / premium/corporate is the problem. Instead of paying off the loan immediately which is what they planned, they now have to pay it off year-on-year.

Seems to me they were over ambitious in trying to have paid the stadium off within 5 years. Similar story with Thomond Park (which Munster Rugby are not able to do).

The Irish Rugby Football Union today presented its 2012/13 Annual Report and Accounts, reporting a 14.9 million euro surplus after taking account of a once-off 'exceptional' item of 11.5m euro.

From the IRFU website. There is a link to the Annual Report below.

The Union cautioned that when this €11.5m once-off item was removed its surplus declined to €3.4m compared with €7.8m last year.

In terms of operating cash-flow this has fallen from a surplus of €2.4m in 2011/12 to a deficit of €4.5m in 2012/13 after non-cash items, such as depreciation and amortised income*, were accounted for.

The Union highlighted that despite the fall in its surplus:

- Funding to Connacht, Leinster, Munster and Ulster remained static (€23.4m v €23.5m)

- Funding to representative teams, branches, clubs and schools increased (€9.5m v €9.25m)

- Representative teams grew from 7 to 8 with the introduction of Women's Sevens

Presenting the accounts, Tom Grace, Honorary Treasurer, warned of difficult times ahead. "Rugby, like every business, continues to feel the impact of the straitened financial times; as people have less money and more options on which to spend their disposable income," he said.

"While our current financial performance of €14.9m is welcome, it flatters to deceive, as it is largely due to a once-off item. Stripping this out our net operating cashflow has fallen to a deficit of €4.5m.

"It is increasingly challenging to raise the required funding to keep our provincial and domestic game adequately resourced and while the €33m spent on the provincial and domestic games are the Union's largest costs they represent an investment in the future of our game, and must be protected.

"This investment can only be sustained if rugby fans continue to support the national team.

"The most striking development of 2012/13 was the impact of the current economic climate on our ten-year ticket renewal which saw just 50% of our ten-year ticket holders renewing.

"Thankfully the Union has been conservative in its approach and we are now in a net cash position. However, as we do not have sufficient cash reserves to cover future cash deficits we now intend to borrow against future sales of ten-year tickets and corporate boxes.

"The Union will continue to develop the game but cash is tight and the support from fans is increasingly important in protecting their investment in their game.

"The entire game, be it at international, provincial, club or schools level, can only function if we continue to enjoy packed houses at the Aviva Stadium.

"If there is one thing to be learned from this financial year it is that supporting our national team at the Aviva enables the IRFU to continue to make significant funds available to professional and domestic games.""

IRFU Annual Report
Downloand the 2012/13 IRFU Annual Report

*Amortised income comprises 10-year ticket and five year box sales and naming rights income, which funded the building of the stadium (instead of bank loans). This 'income' must be accounted for over the period to which it relates and is reflected in the annual accounts despite the fact it was not actually received in the year, and has already been spent.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/29526.php

[MrsP]

Interesting.

I wonder who did the projections for ticket sales when the new stadium was built? It looks like they got it very very wrong on very many fronts.

I would guess these debenture tickets would be the expensive ones?

Anyone know what the difference in income would be between selling those tickets match by match as opposed to as a 10 year deal?

I understand the advantage of the up front payment to the IRFU but how much difference be in the long term?

[Big]

Interesting.

...

Anyone know what the difference in income would be between selling those tickets match by match as opposed to as a 10 year deal?

I understand the advantage of the up front payment to the IRFU but how much difference be in the long term?

I was wondering that. I would have thought that a debenture would be slightly cheaper than buying all the tickets - otherwise what is the point in getting one?

Looking at the broader context (IRFU are hardly the only union struggling) I do wonder what if anything the IRB will do to try and ensure the financial security of it's members.

[Sin é]

I don't think the IRFU are that badly off (considering the economic times). They still had a surplus. Leinster's recent success probably hasn't been good for Ireland ticket sales - the South Dublin core Ireland market have too many big games/trips away to go to. I wonder if the reason the Leinster v Munster game is not now scheduled just before the AIs (something which I suggested they should stop) is something to do with this. Why would you go to an international when you can see all the same players together for half the price two weeks previously? It will be interesting to see if Leinster hold their HCup game before Christmas in the Aviva.

Funding hasn't decreased to the provinces. Where they have made cutbacks is with central contracts. Losing ROG & Sexton this year should be a help and I doubt if Brian O'Driscoll's contract is anything what it was.

[rodders]

The IRFU owe something like 33m on the Aviva. The sale of 10 year tickets / premium/corporate is the problem. Instead of paying off the loan immediately which is what they planned, they now have to pay it off year-on-year.  

Seems to me  they were over ambitious in trying to have paid the stadium off within 5 years. Similar story with Thomond Park (which Munster Rugby are not able to do).

The Irish Rugby Football Union today presented its 2012/13 Annual Report and Accounts, reporting a 14.9 million euro surplus after taking account of a once-off 'exceptional' item of 11.5m euro.

From the IRFU website. There is a link to the Annual Report below.

The Union cautioned that when this €11.5m once-off item was removed its surplus declined to €3.4m compared with €7.8m last year.

In terms of operating cash-flow this has fallen from a surplus of €2.4m in 2011/12 to a deficit of €4.5m in 2012/13 after non-cash items, such as depreciation and amortised income*, were accounted for.

The Union highlighted that despite the fall in its surplus:

- Funding to Connacht, Leinster, Munster and Ulster remained static (€23.4m v €23.5m)

- Funding to representative teams, branches, clubs and schools increased (€9.5m v €9.25m)
- Representative teams grew from 7 to 8 with the introduction of Women's Sevens

Presenting the accounts, Tom Grace, Honorary Treasurer, warned of difficult times ahead. "Rugby, like every business, continues to feel the impact of the straitened financial times; as people have less money and more options on which to spend their disposable income," he said.

"While our current financial performance of €14.9m is welcome, it flatters to deceive, as it is largely due to a once-off item. Stripping this out our net operating cashflow has fallen to a deficit of €4.5m.
"It is increasingly challenging to raise the required funding to keep our provincial and domestic game adequately resourced and while the €33m spent on the provincial and domestic games are the Union's largest costs they represent an investment in the future of our game, and must be protected.

"This investment can only be sustained if rugby fans continue to support the national team.

"The most striking development of 2012/13 was the impact of the current economic climate on our ten-year ticket renewal which saw just 50% of our ten-year ticket holders renewing.

"Thankfully the Union has been conservative in its approach and we are now in a net cash position. However, as we do not have sufficient cash reserves to cover future cash deficits we now intend to borrow against future sales of ten-year tickets and corporate boxes.

"The Union will continue to develop the game but cash is tight and the support from fans is increasingly important in protecting their investment in their game.

"The entire game, be it at international, provincial, club or schools level, can only function if we continue to enjoy packed houses at the Aviva Stadium.

"If there is one thing to be learned from this financial year it is that supporting our national team at the Aviva enables the IRFU to continue to make significant funds available to professional and domestic games.""

IRFU Annual Report
Downloand the 2012/13 IRFU Annual Report

*Amortised income comprises 10-year ticket and five year box sales and naming rights income, which funded the building of the stadium (instead of bank loans). This 'income' must be accounted for over the period to which it relates and is reflected in the annual accounts despite the fact it was not actually received in the year, and has already been spent.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/29526.php

 
Says it all really.
 
A 4.5 million running deficit and more than 3 times more funding for the provinces than the rest of the grassroots game put together..
 
The IRFU make the AIB and Ulster bank look like fairly well run ships.
 
No wonder Puma pulled the plug. Maybe Nama can take over as shirt sponsors.

[MrsP]

Big,

I reckon the attraction in the past was the guarantee of a seat at every international when ticket were hard to come by. There seems to have been a serious over estimation of demand for tickets in the new stadium.

I'm sure there were also folk who just renewed their debenture without much thought until there was the break while the new stadium was built. They may just have broken the habit of renewing.

[Sin é]

Rods, Puma are pulling out of rugby in Europe and going after the soccer market. 11.5m is a nice payoff for the IRFU.

As a matter of interest what do you think the clubs would do if they were given more money - pay amateur players more?

[rodders]

Rods, Puma are pulling out of rugby in Europe and going after the soccer market. 11.5m is a nice payoff for the IRFU.

As a matter of interest what do you think the clubs would do if they were given more money - pay amateur players more?

You can't pay an amateur sin....  

They could invest in facilities, promotional activites, coaching etc. grow the grassroots game in terms of quality and quantity. Make the AIB more than a saturday afternoon urine up for doctors, teachers, architects and solicitors

The grassroots game is basically ignored in favour of pumping money into provincial rugby, which is actually attracting people away from the national game that funds it....

It's actually pretty funny, the IRFU are subsidising their own downfall... you couldn't make it up....

[thebandwagonsociety]

Interesting that when the bed pan was being built, all the talk was of how the stadium was too small and people wouldn't be able to get a ticket and this was short sighted of the  IRFU.

[Scrumdown]

Interesting.

I wonder who did the projections for ticket sales when the new stadium was built? It looks like they got it very very wrong on very many fronts.

I would guess these debenture tickets would be the expensive ones?

Anyone know what the difference in income would be between selling those tickets match by match as opposed to as a 10 year deal?

I understand the advantage of the up front payment to the IRFU but how much difference be in the long term?

A debenture is just a loan made by the debenture holder to the IRFU. It is repayable by the IRFU to the debenture holder in 5 or 10 years depending on the terms of the debenture issued.

The advantage to the IRFU is that this is a cheap way of raising finance. Instead of paying a market rate of interest on the finance received, they just offer the debenture holder a guaranteed ticket at the stadium.

The debenture holder still has to pay for his ticket (this is not part of the cost of the debenture). It is just that he is guaranteed a ticket.

The idea is that the debentures issued will never be repaid by the IRFU because either supporters will renew or the irfu will sell their debentures onto someone else.

A loan from a bank of £25 million will have to be repaid. It will also incur interest. one way or other irfu will have to make cuts. they seem to be in denial.

[MrsP]

Thanks for explaining Scrumdown.

I had assumed it was just a long term season ticket.

So they expected 3,700 people to part with between €5,500 and €9,000 just for the honour of forking out even more for a seat????

And nearly 2,000 people did this?

Are these businesses rather than individuals?

[Notch]

So the IRFU planned its whole future on the willingness of Irish Rugby fans to fork over massive amounts of money for the honour of having a guaranteed ticket in a stadium they struggle to sell out anyway. You'd have to laugh or you'd cry.

The disastrous faux pas of the initial pricing of tickets haunts us still. I know that was the moment I fell out of love with international rugby and I suspect many others feel the same.

[RubyGuby]

 

Spending 410 million Euros to increase the capacity by just a few more thousand isn't the wisest economic move I've ever seen.

[Sin é]

Notch, I wouldn't necessarily say they were rugby fans. Companies bought these tickets so that they were assured of being able to entertain their clients. The other point is that you had the same seats for every match. It used to be pretty difficult to get tickets to Lansdowne Road prior to the redevelopment.

The IRFU could make internationals more competitive by removing the competition for the now limited corporate entertainment market (not allowing Leinster use the Aviva). This could be very hard on Leinster as I don't think their corporate facilities would be up to much in the RDS.

Gibbo - prepare to tighten the belt!

[Sin é]

 

Spending 410 million Euros to increase the capacity by just a few more thousand  isn't the wisest economic move I've ever seen.

Ruby - as a matter of interest what do the WRU do with all their money? The Millenium Stadium must be well paid off at this stage.

[RubyGuby]

 

Spending 410 million Euros to increase the capacity by just a few more thousand  isn't the wisest economic move I've ever seen.

Ruby - as a matter of interest what do the WRU do with all their money? The Millenium Stadium must be well paid off at this stage.

I think Dai Pickering now has a bigger house and Roger's just had a new pool. Apart from that the Regions are skint so you're guess is as good as mine - Oh and they ordered 6 new BMW 7 Series in April, all long wheel base - They have agreed to pay 10% of Adam Jones's food bill for the next 2 years alongside paying for Hibbard's highlights. They considered paying for a new BUPA deal for health insurance for Warburton but the premiums quoted were too high. I guess that's where it goes.

Great stadium though, you can eat and drink without any problem even when at capacity and I have never had to queue for a dump; even at half time. Although I have seen the odd queue whittle down as I start my business. Magnificent stadium.

 

[Thomond]

I have felt that building Lansdowne was the dumbest thing that has ever happened to the IRFU as soon as it was only going to be 50k I would have walked away and signed a lease deal with the GAA. They will do anything for you if you have enough money.

[RubyGuby]

I have felt that building Lansdowne was the dumbest thing that has ever happened to the IRFU as soon as it was only going to be 50k I would have walked away and signed a lease deal with the GAA. They will do anything for you if you have enough money.

 It was a very very strange move to spend 410 million just to increase by a few thousand - Nice stadium and all that but it makes no economic sense whatsoever - I even think Ireland have lost something with the more synthetic atmosphere but I may be wrong. Maybe it was politics as usual as it must have created jobs and someones made a spadefull of dosh. Bananas decision though.

[Sin é]

The IRFU had to do something with Lansdowne Road - it was falling down. Don't forget the GAA had loads of money back in 2003/4 when the IRFU decided to build a new stadium. I think they got the capacity right for Lansdowne. I wouldn't like to be trying to fill Croke Park for the AIs.

Now that it looks like the French clubs are going to dominate the HCup for the next few years, it might get a few HCup finals as the French won't fill the Millenium, Twickers or Murrayfield.

Ruby - the Aviva cost the IRFU about 80m. The costs of building it were shared with the FAI and the Irish taxpayer. The IRFU owe 33m on it (and with the sale of the 14m worth of 10 year tickets would leave its debt at 19m for the stadium).

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

I have felt that building Lansdowne was the dumbest thing that has ever happened to the IRFU as soon as it was only going to be 50k I would have walked away and signed a lease deal with the GAA. They will do anything for you if you have enough money.

The Gaa were charging a cool million per game. OK they would probably have had to knock that down in the current climate but still dead money.

Plus. Croker was a sh1t venue for Rugby. The far corner of the Davin stand is in a different postcode to the halfway line. Massive gap between the (Rugby) pitch and the punters.

[Scrumdown]

The IRFU had to do something with Lansdowne Road - it was falling down. Don't forget the GAA had loads of money back in 2003/4 when the IRFU decided to build a new stadium. I think they got the capacity right for Lansdowne. I wouldn't like to be trying to fill Croke Park for the AIs.

Now that it looks like the French clubs are going to dominate the HCup for the next few years, it might get a few HCup finals as the French won't fill the Millenium, Twickers or Murrayfield.

Ruby - the Aviva cost the IRFU about 80m. The costs of building it were shared with the FAI and the Irish taxpayer. The IRFU owe 33m on it (and with the sale of the 14m worth of 10 year tickets would leave its debt at 19m for the stadium).

They owed €130million on the stadium at 30 April 2012. Not sure where you get the €33million figure from.

[LeinsterFan4life]

Who remembers the whole "no foreign sports in Croke Park" saga?

Nobody seems to care that its hosting an American Football game... Oh the irish.

[Sin é]

Scrumdown - the Aviva is owned by a company called New Stadium Ltd which is a joint venture between the IRFU & FAI. The IRFU have loaned New Stadium €33m (up from 30 last year). The IRFU also receive ground rent of approx €1m per annum from this company.

The FAI have had serious financial difficulties recently (lots of people made redundant) and that is where the worry is.

[Sin é]

Who remembers the whole "no foreign sports in Croke Park" saga?

Nobody seems to care that its hosting an American Football game... Oh the irish.

American football isn't competing for the GAA's young hearts and minds!

[Scrumdown]

Scrumdown - the Aviva is owned by a company called New Stadium Ltd which is a joint venture between the IRFU & FAI. The IRFU have loaned New Stadium €33m (up from 30 last year). The IRFU also receive ground rent of approx €1m per annum from this company.

The FAI have had serious financial difficulties recently (lots of people made redundant) and that is where the worry is.

The €33million is not the stadium debt. It is an amount owed by 'new stadium limited' to the IRFU as a result of a loan that the IRFU previously made to the company named 'new stadium limited'. It is a debtor in the accounts of the IRFU, not a creditor!

The IRFU owns 50% of New Stadium Limited and as such is liable to pay 50% of its liabilities. Per the IRFU accounts at 30 April 2012 this amounted to €130million which sounds reasonable.

The €33million is not the stadium debt. It is an intercompany loan. If the stadium debt was only €33m then the irfu would have got the deal of the century!

The WRU still owe at least £20million on the millenium stadium and that was built 15 years ago.

[Sin é]

The IRFU couldn't owe €130m for the Aviva, since it cost €400m. €200m came from Irish Gov. which leaves €200m between FAI & IRFU which would be €100m if they hadn't paid off anything, which they have. The New Stadium Company sold the name rights for one thing.

Off the top of my head, the IRFU had reserves of €70m to pay for the stadium initially, so owing €30m sounds just about right.

On the Balance Sheet, it says the IRFU's current assets less liabilities is €143.5m. When deferred naming rights, ticket sales etc. are included, the IRFU's assets are worth €52m.

[Scrumdown]

The IRFU couldn't owe €130m for the Aviva, since it cost €400m. €200m came from Irish Gov. which leaves €200m between FAI & IRFU which would be €100m if they hadn't paid off anything, which they have. The New Stadium Company sold the name rights for one thing.

Off the top of my head, the IRFU had reserves of €70m to pay for the stadium initially, so owing €30m sounds just about right.

On the Balance Sheet, it says the IRFU's current assets less liabilities is €143.5m. When deferred naming rights, ticket sales etc. are included, the IRFU's assets are worth €52m.

look under note 7 'joint ventures'. re: new stadium limited. IRFU share of non current liabilities of 'new stadium ltd' is €130million.

You can't just deduct various assets to arrive at €30m!

[Feckless Rogue]

Surely the Germans will pay for it.

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