The first hole
+18
oldshanker
MustPuttBetter
kwinigolfer
super_realist
dynamark
JAS
SmithersJones
matelot golfer
Davie
beninho
busted
navyblueshorts
barragan
Roller_Coaster
McLaren
raycastleunited
George1507
lorus59
22 posters
The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Golf
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The first hole
Do you guys have any thoughts about how the first hole should be on any golf course? Should it be a par 3, 4 or 5? Should it be a relatively easy introduction to the round or is it ok to be a brute? Do you know any first holes that are the hardest hole on any course?
lorus59- Posts : 997
Join date : 2011-07-14
Location : Thailand
Re: The first hole
Personally, I think it shouldn't be a really hard hole. I don't care what the par is, but you should be able to ease yourself into the round without having to negotiate a really tough opening hole. And purely on the basis of getting a competition field moving, you don't want the first to be causing a big hold up.
Interestingly, the first at Muirfield is always one of the toughest holes. I think it was the hardest on day 1, playing into the breeze. Easier on days 2,3 and 4 when the wind switched.
Interestingly, the first at Muirfield is always one of the toughest holes. I think it was the hardest on day 1, playing into the breeze. Easier on days 2,3 and 4 when the wind switched.
George1507- Posts : 1336
Join date : 2011-01-27
Re: The first hole
Strangely I was thinking about the same thing this morning while sitting on the tube to work!
I'm with George on this one. A nice medium length par 4 to ease you into your round. I used to play at a course which opened with a par 3 to a narrow green. It used to take forever to get off the first as most people missed the green, chipped on and then took a couple of putts.
I'm with George on this one. A nice medium length par 4 to ease you into your round. I used to play at a course which opened with a par 3 to a narrow green. It used to take forever to get off the first as most people missed the green, chipped on and then took a couple of putts.
raycastleunited- Posts : 3373
Join date : 2011-03-22
Location : North London
Re: The first hole
Harry Colt thought the first hole should be long but not especially difficult, in order to give the player a chance to get into their swing. He also said the first should not hug the boundary.
Some great first holes to give us some clues about what is good in a first hole;
TOC
North Berwick
Royal Melbourne West
Brancaster
Dornoch
machrihanish
silloth
Some great first holes to give us some clues about what is good in a first hole;
TOC
North Berwick
Royal Melbourne West
Brancaster
Dornoch
machrihanish
silloth
McLaren- Posts : 17630
Join date : 2011-01-27
Re: The first hole
Interesting.
My opinion, Par 4, not too much in the way of course management requirements, something that allows most players to use a wood of some description and a mid (7/8) iron (at most) for your second shot. This should get the body and mind dialled in to big sticks and irons. If the second misses the green the surrounds should be relatively easy to allow a comparitively simple chip. Green can be a bit tougher as you should have just got off the practise green anyway.
Often it simply seems to be a hole to get away from the clubhouse and on to better golfing land and space!
My opinion, Par 4, not too much in the way of course management requirements, something that allows most players to use a wood of some description and a mid (7/8) iron (at most) for your second shot. This should get the body and mind dialled in to big sticks and irons. If the second misses the green the surrounds should be relatively easy to allow a comparitively simple chip. Green can be a bit tougher as you should have just got off the practise green anyway.
Often it simply seems to be a hole to get away from the clubhouse and on to better golfing land and space!
Roller_Coaster- Posts : 2572
Join date : 2012-06-27
Re: The first hole
I like ours. An easy par 5 (495yd), which ought to be a simple birdie if you've warmed up properly and hit a decent drive, but can punish those who haven't i.e. the majority of the field.
barragan- Posts : 2297
Join date : 2011-01-27
Re: The first hole
I have read many times that back in the day, when matchplay was the form of choice, when designing a first you also had to consider its merits as a 19th hole.
A par 5 of the type ban mentions can tick a few boxes. Good chance to get into the round and the chance of shot swing as a 19th matchplay hole.
A par 5 of the type ban mentions can tick a few boxes. Good chance to get into the round and the chance of shot swing as a 19th matchplay hole.
McLaren- Posts : 17630
Join date : 2011-01-27
Re: The first hole
As long as it's not a killer hole, I would have thought anything would work. I have a hate/hate relationship with ours - ~410, up hill slightly, OoB right (which means I'm often in the rough left), narrow, long green.... .
navyblueshorts- Moderator
- Posts : 11488
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Off with the pixies...
Re: The first hole
Atherstone's first hole is a right killer - elevated tee , OB tight on left and right, and a stream to carry at about 150-160 yds ... so need a long-ish iron to carry.
Bunkers over the water i nmiddle of fairway.
2nd shot steep uphill, blind, OB right, very steep drop-off left (rolls 40-50 yds !)
layup with 9 iron leaves about 180 to said green ...
nightmare
Bunkers over the water i nmiddle of fairway.
2nd shot steep uphill, blind, OB right, very steep drop-off left (rolls 40-50 yds !)
layup with 9 iron leaves about 180 to said green ...
nightmare
busted- Posts : 97
Join date : 2012-07-02
Re: The first hole
Ideally one where you cannot be seen by anyone else. I get horrible first tee nerves when being watched!
beninho- Posts : 6854
Join date : 2011-01-28
Location : NW London
Re: The first hole
I really don't see the fuss over the 1st hole. Whether it is easy or hard (*) it shouldn't matter as it is the same for everyone unless you are playing a shotgun start in which case they are fun comps anyway
Our first is a tough hole - almost 90 degree dogleg left at around 190-200 yards. When you consider that most higher handicappers are more likely to slice than hook, it leaves a VERY long second shot.
A good, accurate lower handicapper who can draw the ball can do a nice job on it - as can a long bomber who can blast it over the dogleg - but neither is really the shot of choice unless in a team event
(*) - Don't forget easy/hard is so subjective - I've posted on here before about our 2nd hole which is a beast for high handicappers but an easy hole for good players
Our first is a tough hole - almost 90 degree dogleg left at around 190-200 yards. When you consider that most higher handicappers are more likely to slice than hook, it leaves a VERY long second shot.
A good, accurate lower handicapper who can draw the ball can do a nice job on it - as can a long bomber who can blast it over the dogleg - but neither is really the shot of choice unless in a team event
(*) - Don't forget easy/hard is so subjective - I've posted on here before about our 2nd hole which is a beast for high handicappers but an easy hole for good players
Davie- Posts : 7821
Join date : 2011-01-27
Age : 64
Location : Berkshire
Re: The first hole
Having played Saunton for a week last month, I think they have the hardest opening hole I have ever played. 486 yd par 4 off an elevated tee of about 40ft above the fairway. The green is not very big either and is just a 5yd wide sliver at the back, interestingly, where they had the pin on 3 days. Killer start!!
Used to think our 200 yd par 3 start at Mullion, with green sloping away from you was tough, but not after playing that!!! Lol
Used to think our 200 yd par 3 start at Mullion, with green sloping away from you was tough, but not after playing that!!! Lol
matelot golfer- Posts : 125
Join date : 2011-09-15
Re: The first hole
Hardest opening hole I've played is at Basildon gc, a public course in deepest, naffest Essex. 450 yard uphill par 4 with OOB down the left, trees right and a fairway sloping right to left with the green on a kind of outcrop in the side of the hill. Not a friendly start, especially with a 230 yard par 3 2nd and then another 460 yard dog leg third with more OOB left. Thereafter, it's quite an easy course.
Our first is on the face of it a reasonably gentle par 4 of 400 yards. In reality, it's one of the toughest on the course (even if you've warmed up, Bara!) with OOB left, trees both sides and playing from a slightly elevated tee down and back up hill into the prevailing wind and doglegging right to left, so that outside of the dry, running conditions of this time of year it's quite normal to have a long iron or wood into a narrow green.
Interesting about Colt's philosophy, Mac. I learned to play on a Colt design, another public course in Essex called Belfairs, and that opens with a 150 yard par 3 with a huge green. Quite possible it wasn't always the first of course.
Our first is on the face of it a reasonably gentle par 4 of 400 yards. In reality, it's one of the toughest on the course (even if you've warmed up, Bara!) with OOB left, trees both sides and playing from a slightly elevated tee down and back up hill into the prevailing wind and doglegging right to left, so that outside of the dry, running conditions of this time of year it's quite normal to have a long iron or wood into a narrow green.
Interesting about Colt's philosophy, Mac. I learned to play on a Colt design, another public course in Essex called Belfairs, and that opens with a 150 yard par 3 with a huge green. Quite possible it wasn't always the first of course.
SmithersJones- Posts : 2094
Join date : 2011-01-27
Re: The first hole
...not forgetting that it normally plays into the wind too Matelot!! Are you playing their Open this weekend too??
JAS- Posts : 5247
Join date : 2011-01-27
Age : 61
Location : Swindon
Re: The first hole
SmithersJones wrote:Hardest opening hole I've played is at Basildon gc, a public course in deepest, naffest Essex. 450 yard uphill par 4 with OOB down the left, trees right and a fairway sloping right to left with the green on a kind of outcrop in the side of the hill. Not a friendly start, especially with a 230 yard par 3 2nd and then another 460 yard dog leg third with more OOB left. Thereafter, it's quite an easy course.
Thats a bad hole where ever it comes in the round.
Davie
easy/hard may be subjective but good architecture means a hole playable for all.
McLaren- Posts : 17630
Join date : 2011-01-27
Re: The first hole
Busted -When I first stood on the first tee at atherstone I genuinely had no idea where the hole went.there doesn't appear to be a golf hole in the vicinity!!
Even looking at the tee blocks didn't help much it is that difficult plus a few others on there to boot.
I prefer a par 4 to start.TBH ours is a bit flawed with a new plantation OB all down the left and heavy woodland down the right narrowing at the drive area.Ive seen fourballs where everyone had two tee shots and a mate went 7 off the tee recently(7 handicap)Its relatively easy to take a conservative 5 but that's not always the best mindset for a round.Our second is the hardest hole on the course as well which means bogey bogey start is never a bad thing.
Even looking at the tee blocks didn't help much it is that difficult plus a few others on there to boot.
I prefer a par 4 to start.TBH ours is a bit flawed with a new plantation OB all down the left and heavy woodland down the right narrowing at the drive area.Ive seen fourballs where everyone had two tee shots and a mate went 7 off the tee recently(7 handicap)Its relatively easy to take a conservative 5 but that's not always the best mindset for a round.Our second is the hardest hole on the course as well which means bogey bogey start is never a bad thing.
dynamark- Posts : 2001
Join date : 2011-03-10
Re: The first hole
Oh yeh, forgot to mention the wind factor!! No, not playing JAS as its a 230 mile round trip for me in a day, plus we have our club championships this coming Sunday, and really want to have a good crack at that this year.
matelot golfer- Posts : 125
Join date : 2011-09-15
Re: The first hole
The first on TOC is a dreadful hole. Way too easy. Although playing with my old man once he managed to go OB left, then go OB right with his second ball. Widest fairway in golf.
super_realist- Posts : 29075
Join date : 2011-01-29
Location : Stavanger, Norway
Re: The first hole
super_realist wrote:The first on TOC is a dreadful hole. Way too easy. Although playing with my old man once he managed to go OB left, then go OB right with his second ball. Widest fairway in golf.
On a course like TOC, I would suggest an easy opening hole is a good thing. For many (most?) golfers it is probably a once in a lifetime event so unfamiliarity and nerves must lead to some shocking tee shots.
raycastleunited- Posts : 3373
Join date : 2011-03-22
Location : North London
Re: The first hole
super_realist wrote:The first on TOC is a dreadful hole. Way too easy. Although playing with my old man once he managed to go OB left, then go OB right with his second ball. Widest fairway in golf.
Ian baker finch managed OB left.
- IBF goes OB left at TOC 1ST:
McLaren- Posts : 17630
Join date : 2011-01-27
Re: The first hole
Best first hole I've ever played is the first at Seven Oaks, the Robert Trent Jones course at Colgate University - site of Scott Simpson's 1977 NCAA Championship.
440-ish slight dog-leg left.
Hit from a slightly elevated tee to a generous tree-lined fairway. A creek runs horizontally across the fairway at about 280 yards, out of reach of most mid-to-high handicappers who are then faced with an uphill approach to a green with another small stream about thirty yards short.
Gently undulating green but open at the front, bunker defences either side.
Almost better played as a par-5 by mid-to-high handicappers, a demanding, but fair, par-4 to low handicappers.
A couple of straightforward holes follow, but a worthy introduction to a lovely course.
And it's 18th hole also a cracker, par-5 with a stream trickling down the right-hand side of the fairway but reachable with two good shots for the longer hitter.
440-ish slight dog-leg left.
Hit from a slightly elevated tee to a generous tree-lined fairway. A creek runs horizontally across the fairway at about 280 yards, out of reach of most mid-to-high handicappers who are then faced with an uphill approach to a green with another small stream about thirty yards short.
Gently undulating green but open at the front, bunker defences either side.
Almost better played as a par-5 by mid-to-high handicappers, a demanding, but fair, par-4 to low handicappers.
A couple of straightforward holes follow, but a worthy introduction to a lovely course.
And it's 18th hole also a cracker, par-5 with a stream trickling down the right-hand side of the fairway but reachable with two good shots for the longer hitter.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: The first hole
Anyone played Walmer & Kingsdown? That's a tricky first hole, the hardest i've played.
It's only 340ish but is all uphill and into the prevailing wind so plays nearer 440. OB left and right.
Nasty
The 1st at Bramley you can drive the green. That's my kind of opening hole!
It's only 340ish but is all uphill and into the prevailing wind so plays nearer 440. OB left and right.
Nasty
The 1st at Bramley you can drive the green. That's my kind of opening hole!
MustPuttBetter- Posts : 2951
Join date : 2011-01-28
Age : 44
Location : Woking
Re: The first hole
La Cala - Asian course, First thing in the morning after a skinful the night before, with the rising sun straight into your already weak and weepy red rimmed eyes. 'Nuff said!
oldshanker- Posts : 656
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Cambridgeshire
Re: The first hole
A favourite course is Hayling Island. Fabulous links course in Hampshire - indeed the only Links in Hampshire. Starts with a par 3 180ish yards which depending on wind is anything from 9 iron to 3 wood. Love the course, but would never choose a par 3 as the start, and especially not this one!
puligny- Posts : 1159
Join date : 2011-01-27
Re: The first hole
I've played a few courses with a par 3 to start which is a tough way to start. The blue course starts with a 200+yd one with a long carry over heather and trees left. Just to add to the theatre you are teeing off from in front of the bar with the hole running at an angle to the clubhouse so they have a great view! It can be very slow to get going.
I play at a James Braid course and he had a theory that the opening drive should be an easy one. We have two fairways to aim at but OOB either side so lots of lost balls. Then there is a big ridge at about 200 yards which needs a carry of about 260 to get up otherwise you feed off it and have about 220 yards uphill. Although its a par 4 if you walk off with a 5 you are happy and it consistently is ranked in the toughest four holes on the course in medals.
I agree with Braid that you want a reasonably easy first drive to get you underway but after that I'm not so bothered so long as its fair.
I play at a James Braid course and he had a theory that the opening drive should be an easy one. We have two fairways to aim at but OOB either side so lots of lost balls. Then there is a big ridge at about 200 yards which needs a carry of about 260 to get up otherwise you feed off it and have about 220 yards uphill. Although its a par 4 if you walk off with a 5 you are happy and it consistently is ranked in the toughest four holes on the course in medals.
I agree with Braid that you want a reasonably easy first drive to get you underway but after that I'm not so bothered so long as its fair.
twoeightnine- Posts : 406
Join date : 2011-02-01
Re: The first hole
dynamark wrote:Busted -When I first stood on the first tee at atherstone I genuinely had no idea where the hole went.there doesn't appear to be a golf hole in the vicinity!!
Even looking at the tee blocks didn't help much it is that difficult plus a few others on there to boot.
When did you play it ? I think theyve added 3 new holes since then -
First time I played it i was about to tee off down te 18th the wrong way, as you said, you cant imagine there is a golf course in the other direction .. I was wondering why the white markers were closer than the yellow ones !
busted- Posts : 97
Join date : 2012-07-02
Re: The first hole
1st at Puttenham GC in Surrey is a short Par 4 that is steeply uphill.
Tee shot is at the base of a disused sandpit now overgrown with gorse and heather.
In the middle of the fairway is a massive oak tree that you would struggle to hit over with a driver.
On the left of the fairway is woods, on the right the village bowling green and cemetery.
Best shot is a cut three wood left of the tree.
A card wrecker or a birdie
Tee shot is at the base of a disused sandpit now overgrown with gorse and heather.
In the middle of the fairway is a massive oak tree that you would struggle to hit over with a driver.
On the left of the fairway is woods, on the right the village bowling green and cemetery.
Best shot is a cut three wood left of the tree.
A card wrecker or a birdie
Doon the Water- Posts : 2482
Join date : 2011-04-14
Age : 76
Location : South West Scotland
Re: The first hole
Hi Doon,
Drove past Puttenham GC the other day, made me think of all the comments about it on here, especially the first! And the first is a bit early for a "card wrecker", surely. (Tho' not for me I suppose.)
Drove past Puttenham GC the other day, made me think of all the comments about it on here, especially the first! And the first is a bit early for a "card wrecker", surely. (Tho' not for me I suppose.)
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: The first hole
Kwini
If in that area you should check out Liphook.
If in that area you should check out Liphook.
McLaren- Posts : 17630
Join date : 2011-01-27
Re: The first hole
Mac,
Not there any more but am quite familiar with Liphook as I grew up (in a manner of speaking) in the area, though have not actually played golf at LGC. Just a matter of time.
Not there any more but am quite familiar with Liphook as I grew up (in a manner of speaking) in the area, though have not actually played golf at LGC. Just a matter of time.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: The first hole
Our first hole is a bit of a stinker too. It is a dog-leg right with OOB all the way down the right. It's around 230 yards to the corner, but if you take a club to get you there and pull it, the fairway all runs away to the left where there are trees. If I go there, I'm nearly always right behind one! There is a ridge running diagonally across the fairway which also pushes tee shots left. If you can run the tee shot within about 10 yards of OOB, you can probably get to A1 position. The second shot is normally around 170 to 180 yards through a gap about 10 paces wide and across a valley. (From the perfect spot it's probably only 145, but I don't think I've ever been there). If you take the club to reach the green and pull it, it runs down onto the second tee (from which it is a compulsory free drop in a dropping zone due to the sleeper revetment), against the fence or amongst the trees and scrub. The slope in front of the green is much, much steeper on the right than on the left so you can't run it in from there. OOB is around 15 yards right of the green, but you can run it in on that side. Because I can't fade a ball, I never go for the green in two in a medal. In a bounce game I might try, but I rarely (if ever) make it. If I can get an up and down for par - brilliant, but I'll always take a 5.
If you can fade, it's a bit easier than it is for me, but it's still one tough hole.
If you can fade, it's a bit easier than it is for me, but it's still one tough hole.
golfermartin- Posts : 696
Join date : 2011-01-28
Age : 67
Location : Sidcup, Kent
Re: The first hole
Busted I did exactly the same went to tee off in the opposite direction it must have happened!
I play there every couple of years with an old school buddy.The newer holes are for some reason called 'the killing fields'by the members.theres a really difficult hole after that around a farm,quarry in the middle of one hole,one that turns over 90 degrees and dissappers into a wood,super little course.
Back to ours I hit a poor drive yesterday so put second into position for a 90yard pitch and walked away with a tidy four maybe the way to approach it.
I play there every couple of years with an old school buddy.The newer holes are for some reason called 'the killing fields'by the members.theres a really difficult hole after that around a farm,quarry in the middle of one hole,one that turns over 90 degrees and dissappers into a wood,super little course.
Back to ours I hit a poor drive yesterday so put second into position for a 90yard pitch and walked away with a tidy four maybe the way to approach it.
dynamark- Posts : 2001
Join date : 2011-03-10
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