What to do with an out of form player?

Much depends on how many tests said player has. The more experience a player has, the less likely he is to be thrown onto the scrap heap of discarded players. Much also depends on the strength of depth you have in the position where your incumbent is out of form.

Let us follow the fortunes of Israel Dagg this year. For my mind, he was NZ's key attacking player last year. He made the bust or scored the try that broke the deadlock in quite a few RC games. But this year for the Crusaders, he was for a great part of the season a shadow of his 2012 self. Perhaps when you go down a level of rugby, the temptation is to think that things are easier. You don't have to work as hard or you have that little bit of extra time. Certainly that appears to be the case for Nonu and a few other ABs earned the wrath of various NZ Super franchise coaches. On the flip side, maybe it's just not possible to maintain the level of intensity and performance required week in and week out for so long. But then you have players like Kieran Read or Carter who have days better than others but rarely, if at all, a bad one.

Whatever the reason, Dagg looked horribly out of form approaching the 3 test French series. There were calls for Ben Smith to take over the fullback position and for the exciting Rene Ranger to take the wing spot. Part of me thinks the only reason this didn't happen was because Ranger was unable to get out of his move to France and the end of year will see Conrad Smith take a break from rugby. Ben Smith is likely to take his namesake's position leaving a gap at fullback. Other options like Barrett and Piutau are still very much green, notably the latter.

The selectors had their reasons but Dagg was asked to do a job at fullback. Namely take the high kicks and position himself for the French kicks. Nobody does that job better than Halfpenny, and we saw in the 3rd test that he is capable of the things for which Dagg has made a name. But by concentrating on getting the basics right and being in that test environment, you could see the confidence of Dagg grow. He never did anything special on attack but he didn't make the defensive howlers he made in the Super games and his kicking was a weapon.

In recent times, Dagg has been living up in the line. So much so that on attack, he leaves a forwarding address at fullback to the attacking line. He is back to his attacking best and the confidence is back. Which begs the question, would he have done the same for Canterbury if he had been dropped by the AB selectors? Can you trace his form back to the tests against France? The former question is difficult to answer as some players find a slump in form and regain it. The man Dagg took over in the 2011 RWC had a shocking test year in 2009 but regained that form on the end of year tour, notably in the Marseille game, and was the standout attacking player in 2010. But the answer to the second question for me is much easier to answer. Sometimes we can overcomplicate things and ask too much of a player. Sometimes a player feels he needs to do something special in order to prove his place whereas sometimes all that's needed is not to do something bad. Steady invariably wins the day.

So when we have a player out of form the inevitable cries are for him to be dropped. If a more in form player is available, these cries become deafening. Which is understandable as we all know the importance of rewarding form. Just look at the enthusiasm and cutting edge Ben Smith brought to the NZ game this June. But how many times do selectors think of the short term instead of the long term. If share prices are dropping we sell. If a player is out of form, we cut him from the team. How many players out there have been in this situation? How many get shifted to another position, frequently unfamiliar to them, and fail only for that to be used against them as proof they don't cut the mustard?

Sometimes you need to create competition for places. You can't have players feel they are guaranteed a starting spot. But there are different ways of bringing back a player into form. How many times do you think those options are explored before a player is discarded and invariably forgotten? I mean think of the development and time invested in each player and think of how easily those investments sometimes are written off.

If your names Stuart Lancaster....you keep playing them....

Give them a Pizza ad

What to do with an out of form player?

'Have them for dinner, with a nice Chianti'

How heathen! You need a robust red to smooth out those rough edges.

Sell them to Bath.

Select them for the Lions.

Wash out your mouth MT. Beaver was a World Cup winning hero!

Stuart Moffatt, former Edinburgh "coach", said that the best thing to do with an out of form player was to play them continuously and let them rediscover form. He also said that the best time to drop a player was then he was on top form.

He was a terrible coach, and several years later we are still suffering because of his stupidity.

What to do with an out of form player?

If the coach keeps selecting him, fire the coach.
If the next coach keeps selecting him, break the players leg.
If he wants to keep playing send him down one level to build confidence.
If that doesn't help offer him retirement.
If he doesn't want to retire, shoot him.

Aren't things messy enough in SA rugby BB?  

Of course it is Kia, but at least this way there is a structured process in place.

Some players need to play through it, that's a valid view point, but the decision has to be made on the basis of whats best for the team not the individual.

Eddie O'Sullivans solution was to pick the same 15 and play them no matter what!

GeordieFalcon wrote:If your names Stuart Lancaster....you keep playing them....

Add Rob Howley to that list, he continually selected Priestland last year when the guy was seriously out of form and he just got worse and his confidence took hell of a beating.

I know some players can and have played themselves back into fitness so there is maybe a call for giving them a game or two but hen its clearly not working send them back to their Region/Club and let them regain form in that environment.

Shame so many posters have elected to play smart ass and not engage in this thought provoking post.

My personal feeling was that Dagg was messed around by his move to the wing. He was derided widely for his defensive positioning at that time And it influenced his natural game.

Dagg is doing something special at the moment, deputising at first receiver on attack and playing his established game of high ball and punt return perfection at fullback on defence.

He is truly something special and it says a lot for Ben Smith, surely this years global find that Smith might be considered in place of Dagg.

Competition as you say breeds excellence and both Dagg and Smith are both pushing boundaries this year.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:If your names Stuart Lancaster....you keep playing them....

Add Rob Howley to that list, he continually selected Priestland last year when the guy was seriously out of form and he just got worse and his confidence took hell of a beating.

Rewriting of history there. Priestland was never 'seriously out of form', merely, much like Dagg in the OP, no longer performing to his 2011 standard, and any errors were jumped upon by the Welsh media/fans. Add to that the maelstrom that is the expectations heaped upon a Welsh 10, with the fan-favoured Hook waiting on the bench, and it takes less than twelve months for people to forget his actual performances and believe that all he did was overcook kicks to the corner all season.

I'd say Gatland is perhaps the most in favour of rewarding players who are not in form with a position in the Test team. Mike Phillips, Jon Thomas, Huw Bennett, and Andy Powell have all been selected despite poor international seasons, often consecutively. Add to that the likes of Henson, Chris Czekaj, Tom James amongst the likes who are given occasional opportunities despite having proven nothing based on their recent form. You could even say players such as Jamie Roberts, Lee Byrne, and Ryan Jones were all lucky not to be dropped, though the latter two eventually were. I'd say Priestland is somewhere alongside Byrne and Roberts in the category of "not great, not bad".




Poor form can be due to anything from psychological problems, a minor injury niggle, or simply not playing as well as you did the week before. Each needs to be treated differently, as kia says, according to the individual player. Where dropping a player suffering with confidence issues may give them the mental breather and desire to get back on track for one player, it may shatter the already fragile nerves of another.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Shame so many posters have elected to play smart ass and not engage in this thought provoking post.

Sorry mate.  But this is summer, and, its time for our minds of inestimable Rugby intelligence to rest.  From pre-season preparations to end of season is 11 months.  

'Summer's Here, and the time is right for racin' in the streets'

At least where I am its been effing hot.  Almost a month of 90F/32C+ temps have everyone fried.  Back in Her Majesty's home islands, been way too warm for all her subjects as well.  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQhGAccFo4k
The northern club and international rugby season has finally dragged itself to the finish line.  On Saturday, my older son and his U19 team and me and my men's team play in our final 7s tournament of the summer.  
http://hellgate7s.villagelions.org/
We are all tired, broken beyond all reason or repair (me more than my son), and can't take anything seriously.   It's not you, bro.  

All I want is
A beach with a warm ocean
A bunch of cheap beer
A 22 year old brunette and her sister of low moral fibre and poor tolerance for drink
A bottle of tequila
An old VW beetle with the top down
And a cheap hotel with a vibrating bed
A lasso
and..........


Besides, I thought you left???????

Love you Doc. In a sexual way mind. Allah Forbid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2bigf337aU

Out of form players?

Sell them to McDonalds. As horse-meat. Its EU Rules. Sorted.

doctor_grey wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:Shame so many posters have elected to play smart ass and not engage in this thought provoking post.

Sorry mate.  But this is summer, and, its time for our minds of inestimable Rugby intelligence to rest.  From pre-season preparations to end of season is 11 months.  

'Summer's Here, and the time is right for racin' in the streets'

At least where I am its been effing hot.  Almost a month of 90F/32C+ temps have everyone fried.  Back in Her Majesty's home islands, been way too warm for all her subjects as well.  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQhGAccFo4k
The northern club and international rugby season has finally dragged itself to the finish line.  On Saturday, my older son and his U19 team and me and my men's team play in our final 7s tournament of the summer.  
http://hellgate7s.villagelions.org/
We are all tired, broken beyond all reason or repair (me more than my son), and can't take anything seriously.   It's not you, bro.  

All I want is
A beach with a warm ocean
A bunch of cheap beer
A 22 year old brunette and her sister of low moral fibre and poor tolerance for drink
A bottle of tequila
An old VW beetle with the top down
And a cheap hotel with a vibrating bed
A lasso
and..........


Besides, I thought you left???????

You are wrong again grey ... In fact the season is just starting! Super rugby finials, the worlds premier tournament: the aptly named Rugby Championship is upon us.

GeordieFalcon wrote:If your names Stuart Lancaster....you keep playing them....

Don't forget to then take any inform players and play them out of position until they're terrible! There by making the out of form player look great. Winners.