3rd Ashes test Old Trafford

First topic message reminder :

SQUAD

Squad Alastair Cook (capt), Joe Root, Jonathan Trott, Kevin Pietersen, Ian Bell, Jonny Bairstow, James Taylor, Matt Prior, Tim Bresnan, Stuart Broad, Graeme Swann, James Anderson, Chris Tremlett, Monty Panesar

Do we vilify Aussie for a pathetic attempt to stay in from Warner now or is it ok if they do it?

How is Clarke batting this morning? My impression from TMS is that he is untroubled but taking no risks. Is that correct?

Cowshot wrote:How is Clarke batting this morning? My impression from TMS is that he is untroubled but taking no risks. Is that correct?

Started to open his shoulders somewhat just before and particularly since the Smith dismissal.

I have a feeling Australia are a bit weary of the weather and want to get on with it a bit.

Mike Selig wrote:

I agree with alfie's assessment of the pitch - it looks like a genuine flat one. But scoreboard pressure can do funny things. 

Can I ask about the pitch? I'm unable to watch at the moment and only saw the Channel 5 highlights last night. In the first session yesterday, bounce seemed uneven with the ball keeping low at times. This was remarked upon during the commentary but never subsequently referred to in the programme. Was that something and nothing?

Haddin dropped by Prior...not an easy one. Anderson must be wondering where his first wicket is coming from...0/98 is not his usual return.

trebellbobaggins wrote:Do we vilify Aussie for a pathetic attempt to stay in from Warner now or is it ok if they do it?

I think its good they want to waste there reviews tbh!

Young Jimmy approaching a 100. No fun mocking Jimmy when he isnt taking wickets.. Hope he can get amongst the wickets soon (not Clarke though)

andyi wrote:Clarke's gone past some good players in the all time list with this knock so far:

Haynes, Lloyd and Mohammad Yousuf, not to mention also passing Boon and Taylor on the Aussie list.

Fair play to him, last 1-2 years he's been phenomenal.

Andy - Of the Lloyds, I presume you're referring to Clive and not Test double-centurion David!  

Warner: I've not hit that.
Clarke: You have. You've hit that.
Warner. I'll hit you.
Clarke: OK, review it.

alfie wrote:Haddin dropped by Prior...not an easy one.  Anderson must be wondering where his first wicket is coming from...0/98 is not his usual return.

Exactly why he isn't the best in the world; a lack of consistency.

guildfordbat wrote:

Mike Selig wrote:

I agree with alfie's assessment of the pitch - it looks like a genuine flat one. But scoreboard pressure can do funny things. 

Can I ask about the pitch? I'm unable to watch at the moment and only saw the Channel 5 highlights last night. In the first session yesterday, bounce seemed uneven with the ball keeping low at times. This was remarked upon during the commentary but never subsequently referred to in the programme. Was that something and nothing?

There has been the odd ball going through the top which suggests the pitch may deteriorate and fairly quickly at that.

Apart from that though the bounce has been true enough for batsmen to be able to hit on the up, although also there is enough carry for the edges.

There is turn, but it is not extravagant (yet?).

It is perhaps more like a 3rd or even 4th day pitch than a 2nd day one, there are runs there if you play yourself in, but playing yourself in isn't easy.

Started to open his shoulders somewhat just before and particularly since the Smith dismissal.

I have a feeling Australia are a bit weary of the weather and want to get on with it a bit.

Thanks. Good positive approach form Clarke, then. Needs quick runs now since he must get a win and will lose time to the weather. Needs what? 450 and a declaration?

Olly wrote:Warner: I've not hit that.
Clarke: You have. You've hit that.
Warner. I'll hit you.
Clarke: OK, review it.

 
Have to admit I did chuckle at that...

Exactly why he isn't the best in the world; a lack of consistency.

chuckle. Reckon Wasim might have Mr Steyn a bit in front again today.  

Olly wrote:Warner: I've not hit that.
Clarke: You have. You've hit that.
Warner. I'll hit you.
Clarke: OK, review it.

 

Well Haddin is not going to die wondering in any case.

Australia clearly think weather is going to come into this.

Smith rightly looks disgusted with himself - he still has some technical issues to iron out, but his attitude is spot on, and he has plenty of talent.

Guildford : to be honest the only balls I have seen keep low are the odd slower delivery from the pacemen ; bounce has really been pretty consistent throughout , and certainly the batsmen haven't been surprised by anything that I can recall. They have all seemed to have ample time to play the ball , though certainly there is a bit there for the spinner.
We will know better when England bat as well , but my impression is this is the best batting surface of the summer by a fair margin.

May deteriorate of course. But I am not sure that it will do so as quickly as some pundits are suggesting.

Mike Selig wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

Mike Selig wrote:

I agree with alfie's assessment of the pitch - it looks like a genuine flat one. But scoreboard pressure can do funny things. 

Can I ask about the pitch? I'm unable to watch at the moment and only saw the Channel 5 highlights last night. In the first session yesterday, bounce seemed uneven with the ball keeping low at times. This was remarked upon during the commentary but never subsequently referred to in the programme. Was that something and nothing?

There has been the odd ball going through the top which suggests the pitch may deteriorate and fairly quickly at that.

Apart from that though the bounce has been true enough for batsmen to be able to hit on the up, although also there is enough carry for the edges.

There is turn, but it is not extravagant (yet?).

It is perhaps more like a 3rd or even 4th day pitch than a 2nd day one, there are runs there if you play yourself in, but playing yourself in isn't easy.

Thanks, Mike. It does seem like a particularly good toss for Australia to have won and not be batting last.

I should add though that I've thought a few times recently that pitches would deteriorate quickly and they've completely failed to. I have a feeling pitches are holding together better nowadays.

Keep hearing hints about the weather. Looks set fair on my TV set  

But if serious rain is expected over the last three days Australia will presumably be looking to get England in before tea ?

26 overs for 89/2 makes this England's session in that context.

Clarke really looks a class apart from the other batsmen. Fireworks after lunch ? Starc can swing the bat too...

alfie wrote:Guildford  : to be honest the only balls I have seen keep low are the odd slower delivery from the pacemen ; bounce has really been pretty consistent throughout , and certainly the batsmen haven't been surprised by anything that I can recall. They have all seemed to have ample time to play the ball , though certainly there is a bit there for the spinner.
We will know better when England bat as well , but my impression is this is the best batting surface of the summer by a fair margin.

May deteriorate of course.  But I am not sure that it will do so as quickly as some pundits are suggesting.

Alfie - your comments also now noted with thanks. Certainly we'll need to see how England get on when they bat - Australia taking 20 wickets by the end of Monday still seems a big task in my book ....

Probably slightly England's session because Australia couldn't get away, but Australia are still obviously on top at this stage.

I suspect given the way they've batted since the Smith dismissal they will look to give it a bash for a good hour or so after lunch and then get England in.

The odd ball is misbehaving (a bit of low bounce, the odd one turning sharply) but they are really few and far between (maybe 6-8 during that session) - I think most of England's problems when they do bat will be in the mind. A couple of early wickets for Australia (maybe a loose shot from one of the openers after a long time in the field in draining conditions, then a corker from Starc) and those dry patches will look very big, and safety a long way away though.

Superb knock from Clarke you have to say.

All intriguingly poised.

Anyway I'm off to catch some sleep, but will return at some point during the evening session no doubt.

You're welcome , guildford.

Just looked again at the Warner dismissal. Honestly can't believe he didn't think he'd hit that...head went round pretty snappily after the ball ballooned towards Trott too.

By the way I wouldn't have heckled him myself - I don't believe in booing sportsmen. But I would have been astonished if he hadn't copped a few boos...I like to think many of them would have been of the pantomime variety anyway.

Australia's morning...purely for the intent they have shown...while Eng seem to be hoping that a draw is best they can get out of this game....dangeorus thinking.

Aus will keep going at england.......pitch will turn dangerous to bat on by tomorrow.....and unlike England that have only Swann...Aus will have Smith, Lyon and Watson's fast cutters to exploit this pitch.

Eng's negative approach is very worrying on what will turn a difficult pitch

Agree with Mike's assessment of the situation at the moment...would be a very good time for Cook and Trott to rediscover the Art of Batting Long..

England just look so flat

A bloke who takes a swing at someone half his size deserves some gyp imo. Hopefully he'll grow up a bit and his talent rather than his temper become the talking point.

Another proper Test match.  Pressure on Cookie now...

Have a good kip, Mike.

Alfie and all others - enjoy the remaining sessions.

I'm off to watch a probable future England batsman make his competitive county debut ....

kingraf wrote:The difference is Broad set the precedent

What for not walking? Sorry that precedent was set over 100 years ago!

Surely you would realise that Im talking about "so bad they're funny" reviews, Dorothy. Broad is the forebearer, Genesis, and patron Saint of comically bad reviews.

kingraf wrote:Surely you would realise that Im talking about "so bad they're funny" reviews, Dorothy. Broad is the forebearer, Genesis, and patron Saint of comically bad reviews.

Yeah, when it came to reviews Broad would burn 20 an innings if you let him.

Anyone see that that Alex Lees got a double hundred for Yorkshire the other day?

Boycott says he's the next big thing, could be better than Root...

The only thing that can possibly go wrong for England is if they succumb to the pressure.

KP_fan wrote:Australia's morning...purely for the intent they have shown...while Eng seem to be hoping that a draw is best they can get out of this game....dangeorus thinking.

Aus will keep going at england.......pitch will turn dangerous to bat on by tomorrow.....and unlike England that have only Swann...Aus will have Smith, Lyon and Watson's fast cutters to exploit this pitch.

Eng's negative approach is very worrying on what will turn a difficult pitch

Can't agree with that. All out attack from 300/3 on this pitch would be the the cricketing equivalent of the Charge of the Light Brigade. As it was drying up the runs got two wickets.

Australia were actually fairly restrained until Smith got out . Latterly Clarke and Haddin have gone after the bowling , and obviously don't intend to bat that much longer.

A lot depends on whether the pitch does turn "dangerous" - and how soon. Because if Australia call it off at 450 - or are bowled out - a follow on target of just 250 doesn't seem too intimidating.They probably wouldn't want to enforce a follow on anyway , but with weather about...
Seriously don't see any way England could have expected to win this once the second new ball failed to achieve a breakthrough , so the draw is their only realistic option. Doesn't mean they wouldn't reconsider if they found themselves 400/4 by close of play Saturday. And if KP fan's pitch assessment is correct , negative approach with the ball this morning would actually seem called for. Though I would hope they bat fairly normally.

Duty281 wrote:The only thing that can possibly go wrong for England is if they succumb to the pressure.

We're doomed. Doooooomed I say!  

I think James Taylor's (very, very, very, very) part time leg spin could have been the difference on this deck. Poor selection.

From what I'm hearing, Jimmy was just not on song. Trying too hard at his home ground perhaps?

Broad has apparently been marooned on 199 Test wickets for more than fifty overs.
The odd thing is he hasn't bowled too badly !

Wonder if he will get it at all in this innings ?

....strange old game....

Olly wrote:Anyone see that that Alex Lees got a double hundred for Yorkshire the other day?

Boycott says he's the next big thing, could be better than Root...

Is Steven Finn in county action?

Cowshot wrote:From what I'm hearing, Jimmy was just not on song. Trying too hard at his home ground perhaps?

Not sure , Cowshot. I don't think he has been as poor as some seem to have implied , but certainly he has not been effective. In fairness , neither have the other seamers : the pitch has drawn their fangs.

He has gone for a few boundaries ...bit of over attacking early on perhaps. Lately Haddin took his chances...

Clarke has made all the bowlers look a bit ordinary , in truth. We perhaps expect too much from Jimmy sometimes.

Yeah, fair point. We won't really know until we see England bat whether it's the pitch or the bowling, probably.

msp83 wrote:

Olly wrote:Anyone see that that Alex Lees got a double hundred for Yorkshire the other day?

Boycott says he's the next big thing, could be better than Root...

Is Steven Finn in county action?

He is indeed msp against Durham for Middlesex

He has 1 of the 5 Durham wickets to fall so far

...and yes, no doubt Clarke has played very well. 

id like to see Joe Root have a little spell right now in tandem with swann

Yawn fest again,..,

Thank you God for R Whites lemonade lollys at only 1 pound a box from tescos! yum!

The difference in the two attacks will be interesting. While Swann is a major member of the England attack , Australia rather rely on their fast bowlers , with Lyon (or Agar in the last two) in a supporting role.
But so far this pitch has resembled a fast bowler's graveyard. I suspect what they don't get early will be hard work for Siddle and co ; and Lyon may not be able to take up the slack. Smith might be useful as variation of course.

The two big risks for England are a couple of tired shots costing early wickets after two days in the field , which could induce some panic ; or the possibility of a major change in the nature of the pitch. Not sure that will happen overnight , but we will see...

Australia still building steadily , the main urgency shown in the running between wickets.
Looks as if they are intending to push on past 500. Clarke often declares earlier than expected but he isn't playing like a man intending to call it off anytime soon.

Brilliant innings by Clarke  

One captain has stood up, time for Cook to do the same when we bat

Well batted Michael Clarke. Top knock.

And well bowled Stu Bro. 200 Test wickets.