Chiefs vs Brumbies - Super Rugby Final

First topic message reminder :

For anyone up early enough and the SH fans on the board.  I'll be keeping an eye on Chiefs captain Craig Clarke ahead of his move to Connacht, Gareth Anscombe on account of his dad being Ulster head coach and me having a couple of pound on him to score the first try

For the Brumbies I want to see more of Speight after his amazing setup for Mogg's try last week against the Bulls.

Chiefs

1.Toby Smith , 2.Hika Elliot , 3.Ben Tameifuna , 4.Craig Clarke (c) , 5.Brodie Retallick , 6.Liam Messam , 7.Tanerau Latimer , 8.Matt Vant Leven , 9.Tawera Kerr-Barlow , 10.Aaron Cruden , 11.Asaeli Tikoirotuma , 12.Andrew Horrell , 13.Charlie Ngatai , 14.Lelia Masaga/Robbie Robinson , 15.Gareth Anscombe

Replacements : 16.Rhys Marshall , 17.Ben Afeaki , 18.Michael Fitzgerald , 19.Sam Cane , 20.Augustine Pulu , 21.Bundee Aki , 22.Robbie Robinson/Patrick Osborne.

Brumbies

1. Scott Sio ,2. Stephen Moore ,3. Ben Alexander ,4. Scott Fardy ,5. Sam Carter ,6. Peter Kimlin ,7. George Smith ,8. Ben Mowen (c) ,9. Nic White ,10. Matt Toomua ,11. Clyde Rathbone ",12. Christian Lealiifano ,13. Tevita Kuridrani ,14. Henry Speight ,15. Jesse Mogg

Replacements:16. Siliva Siliva ,17. Ruan Smith ",18. Fotu Auelua (,19. Colby Faingaa ,20. Ian Prior ,21. Andrew Smith ,22. Joe Tomane

Saint, you're hilarious mate! I don't mean to stoke the fire, but it kinda sounds like we're heading into moral victory territory, which is always bad.

The Sydney Morning Herald all but awarded the championship to the brumbies.

Yup, arrogance is alive in well in NZ and SH rugby

From the NZ Herald, 4 kiwi scribes were asked....

Do we need to acknowledge in the Southern Hemisphere that the overall standard of the Super 15 this year was poor?

Gregor Paul replied...

"Maybe not poor - but not consistently great. There weren't many classic games. There weren't many obvious heroes and no one changed the landscape with the way they played. Would the Chiefs beat Heineken Cup champions Toulon? Probably. As would the Crusaders, Bulls, Brumbies and probably the Stormers. Actually the Reds could manage it, too and possibly the Cheetahs"

Love it, that's the attitude!!!

Terrific 6 and 7 on either team - Messam and Smith were excellent for their respective teams.

Not sure it's arrogance. There's nothing wrong with pride and honesty, or expressing those things. I can't stand false modesty. The chiefs are back to back SXV champs and they did it playing positive constructive rugby. Now a team like some of the dredge northern sides mentioned might, on their day, knock a few wins against the SXV sides mentioned assuming the weather conditions were dire, they were playing at home, and they had a pedantic anti-rugby referee like Nigel Owens or Romain Poite.

But can you imagine them keeping it together for two seasons with ALL the travelling miles a SXV franchise does and winning, then defending the crown? Absolutely not going to happen.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Not sure it's arrogance. There's nothing wrong with pride and honesty, or expressing those things. I can't stand false modesty. The chiefs are back to back SXV champs and they did it playing positive constructive rugby. Now a team like some of the dredge northern sides mentioned might, on their day, knock a few wins against the SXV sides mentioned assuming the weather conditions were dire, they were playing at home, and they had a pedantic anti-rugby referee like Nigel Owens or Romain Poite.

But can you imagine them keeping it together for two seasons with ALL the travelling miles a SXV franchise does and winning, then defending the crown? Absolutely not going to happen.

Something you should never worry of being accused of. You're right of course, I'm afraid only us English can truly master arrogance - your SH pride and honesty just doesn't quite cut the mustard.

It's a delicate subject Hood. But I think pride and honesty reflects itself in proposing the results validated acheievment as evidence of excellence, so saying "the all blacks are the best team in the world" based on perennial ranking and being world champions, and then disecting further into whether this is because of the worlds beat coaching, worlds best training and talent evaluation, best coaching structures, or merely the synergy of all these component excellences is merely a discussion based in honesty and pride, whereas the kind of tub thumping nationalistic fervour that erupts when say, England sneak a win on a rainy twickenham afternoon once a decade is reflective to me at least of arrogance and ostrichism. Not to say the English aren't allowed to be proud on these occasions, just that they should let honesty also play its part.

I love your work GE, but pride and honesty has to be met with humility. GP throwing all semi-finalists in there and an extra team for good measure in being able to beat the NH champions is a bit of a stretch maybe. Us SH may think this but for the media to print it is perhaps uncouth. Guess it was just an honest opinion so, maybe, so what? It's hypothetical and a touch arrogant IMO. That's why I love it, it's how we think (but don't act, in general).

Thanks ebop just was wondering how he was going after his spell in Union especially when I read all the talk about how the NRL is probably better. By the way not putting league down played a few seasons and don't mind watching a few games. Interesting to hear that he has matured a bit do you think this is because of his time in union or would he have developed that over time anyway ? Good luck to him and hope he is just as good when he gets back to union

ebop wrote:I love your work GE, but pride and honesty has to be met with humility. GP throwing all semi-finalists in there and an extra team for good measure in being able to beat the NH champions is a bit of a stretch maybe. Us SH may think this but for the media to print it is perhaps uncouth. Guess it was just an honest opinion so, maybe, so what? It's hypothetical and a touch arrogant IMO. That's why I love it, it's how we think (but don't act, in general).

I agree. There's a time for humility. Rugby is just a game and means nothing other than bragging rights for the players and fans. So lets have a good hard brag and be honest And say look, these guys are the best and to have a franchise come from nowhere and win two seasons back to back is a hell of a feat and a great thing for NZ rugby to show some depth outside the traditional rugby bastions of Auckland and Canterbury. When I look at the raw talent coming from Auckland: saili, piatau, Halai and the likes and the traditional conveyer of cantabs then throw in the largely veteran AB highlanders and the rebuilding at hammets Wellington - well NZ rugby is in rude health. It's like an onion to me; whenever a layer is peeled back by retirement or OE clubs calling, a new shiny layer with even more zing than the previous is revealed. Awesome stuff. Just awesome.

Cruden is really looking great this season (bar place kicking oddly), pure greed that the AB's now have the 2nd best FH in rugby behind Carter.

His goal kicking seems to suffer under pressure. Something to work on. In the meantime I would think it might be prudent for the ABs to name a second kicker in the squad. With no Weepu that gets trickier. Dagg can kick, I've no doubt Ben Smith can too, he can do everything else.

Always rated Ben Smith, he's been the outstanding back in super rugby this season imo

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Always rated Ben Smith, he's been the outstanding back in super rugby this season imo

Thats official as far as our Reunion votes go- nz sides that is- player in fact, not just back. Pipped ranger by less than a point with Sam Whitelock next...

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Cruden is really looking great this season (bar place kicking oddly), pure greed that the AB's now have the 2nd best FH in rugby behind Carter.

Some people starting to think its the other way around now sgt. The king is dead! Long live the king!

GloriousEmpire wrote:It's a delicate subject Hood. But I think pride and honesty reflects itself in proposing the results validated acheievment as evidence of excellence, so saying "the all blacks are the best team in the world" based on perennial ranking and being world champions, and then disecting further into whether this is because of the worlds beat coaching, worlds best training and talent evaluation, best coaching structures, or merely the synergy of all these component excellences is merely a discussion based in honesty and pride, whereas the kind of tub thumping nationalistic fervour that erupts when say, England sneak a win on a rainy twickenham afternoon once a decade is reflective to me at least of arrogance and ostrichism.   Not to say the English aren't allowed to be proud on these occasions, just that they should let honesty also play its part.

Yeah, it's a fair point. When you're the best for that long its hard to develop faux humility. One win in a decade is nothing to write home about, so I'm glad England fans by and large recognised that. Plenty of us even looked to give the ABs an out through the usual 'dicky-tummy' excuse, such was our shock at winning. I suppose it's a bit like the England team from 2001-03. Hard to remember now of course, but clearly we were the best team for a prolonged period. A few people concocted a myth about the team playing 10 man rugby, but no-one could deny we were the best, and I'm glad people like yourself were gracious enough to recognise this. The downside is we were then accused of arrogance for pointing out the blindingly obvious, a tag that still seems to haunt us. AB fans are perfectly within their rights to brag and display zero humility as far as I'm concerned.

Pretty good game all in all.

Shame the Brumbies had logged all those air miles previously though.

Chiefs v Toulon would be epic. To be honest I'd expect Chiefs to win it but you never know.

Hood83 wrote:[AB fans are perfectly within their rights to brag and display zero humility as far as I'm concerned.

Fortunately its only the fans that do. The AB's are a very humble bunch and know their place in the game, having respect for all opponents both on and off the field (barring the odd one off occasion) but for the record they have...they do pretty well in that area.