3rd Ashes test Old Trafford

Can't help but feel that the old australian teams of waugh and ponying would have declared by now and backed their bowlers to win the game for them. Admittedly the bowlers were better, but I think we can really see the aussie mentality in delaying the declaration decision. It's ok to say you can't base the decision on the forecast but at 2-0 down it is all or nothing, and they should have gambled earlier.

They should have declared at 275 for two reasons:

1) More time.
2) England might have gone for it and played into Australia's hands.

As is it, even if there is no more rain, I fancy England to bat out the 3 and a bit sessions they need.

suspect we will see max one session.

By the way Diggers - I get what you are saying about them playing better- They are and clearly have this test. But this track is good for batting- I would still back england to stay in and get the draw.

I think its very tough to say that aus are on a par to england at the moment. Just look at the form and the averages of players over the last few years. There arent very comparable tbh.(bar clarkes for the OZ team)

is the pitch worse as bbc say or have aussie been forcing the pace hence mistakes?

With the lights on at the ground, has the situation deteriorated so badly that the umpires had to stop play? The umpires continue to remain pretty much in the spotlight for the right or the wrong reasons.

The only reason Clarke didn't declare at a lead of 300 I believe is Kevin Pietersen.

Duty281 wrote:They should have declared at 275 for two reasons:

1) More time.
2) England might have gone for it and played into Australia's hands.

As is it, even if there is no more rain, I fancy England to bat out the 3 and a bit sessions they need.

By batting on, they've taken out the possibility of England going for the win. England now just need to block out so many overs.

Completely right Duty. Think Clarke (usually an aggressive captain) has left it too long. Should've gone in when they got to a lead of 300

Trebbs its clear they have tried to smash it- the rate is up to 5!!

Did we expect anything else.. The amount of wickets proves nothing.

I have no idea about the light I am not there- But to be honest I would be livid if I was in there position! I hate bad light- Stick some lights on if really is that bad

true that Roakes.

 BBC bigging it up.

Will be tough under pressure to survive though.  we made a bit of a mess of it first time out.

Yes olly/duty- Declared too soon first and then too late second.

trebellbobaggins wrote:true that Roakes.

 BBC bigging it up.

Will be tough under pressure to survive though.  we made a bit of a mess of it first time out.

Yes pressure over the conditions is what will make it tougher than normal to bat a day

Umpires are clearly scared about the fact there tired eyes cant get a decision right!!!

Everyone in the commentary team are saying the light is fine!

mystiroakey wrote:By the way Diggers - I get what you are saying about them playing better- They are and clearly have this test. But this track is good for batting- I would still back england to stay in and get the draw.

I think its very tough to say that aus are on a par to england at the moment. Just look at the form and the averages of players over the last few years. There arent very comparable tbh.(bar clarkes for the OZ team)

I didn't say they were on a par, I said not much between them bearing in mind we have home advantage. And that in Oz where our pack leader bowler isn't usually that great..as he hasn't been this week on a hard flat wicket...it could be pretty tight.

In oz we could be in for a cracking series I agree . I think they are moving forward. The fact that they can all bat is a massive plus to them and there seam is pretty decent as well. There will probally set up the wickets to counter swann as well

The light is fine, umpires are just stupid these days.

rain now.  I could be wrong and there may be time tomorrow but if this really is it and we have very few overs left in the match then Clarke missed a trick not declaring a lot earlier and having some overs at England.

And rain. Might be it for the day

Deffo declaration happening then. England will bat next.

msp83 wrote:The only reason Clarke didn't declare at a lead of 300 I believe is Kevin Pietersen.

I don't subscribe to the theory you have to take into account other teams players when declaring.

If you're gonna win, you have to get them out.

Back your bowlers to get them out.

Aussies have to win. Give England a carrot to go after. Got more of a chance in my mind with England going for something, then with just England blocking all day. They may lose the match, but they've got more of a chance of winning it that way.

when will next be Roakey?

today or 6pm tomorrow as the rain eases?

Tommorow morning!

if the rain holds off.. if.

Diggers wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:By the way Diggers - I get what you are saying about them playing better- They are and clearly have this test. But this track is good for batting- I would still back england to stay in and get the draw.

I think its very tough to say that aus are on a par to england at the moment. Just look at the form and the averages of players over the last few years. There arent very comparable tbh.(bar clarkes for the OZ team)

I didn't say they were on a par, I said not much between them bearing in mind we have home advantage. And that in Oz where our pack leader bowler isn't usually that great..as he hasn't been this week on a hard flat wicket...it could be pretty tight.

Averages 26 last time out in Australia, so not too bad.

Duty281 wrote:

Diggers wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:By the way Diggers - I get what you are saying about them playing better- They are and clearly have this test. But this track is good for batting- I would still back england to stay in and get the draw.

I think its very tough to say that aus are on a par to england at the moment. Just look at the form and the averages of players over the last few years. There arent very comparable tbh.(bar clarkes for the OZ team)

I didn't say they were on a par, I said not much between them bearing in mind we have home advantage. And that in Oz where our pack leader bowler isn't usually that great..as he hasn't been this week on a hard flat wicket...it could be pretty tight.

Averages 26 last time out in Australia, so not too bad.

Not nearly  so good in 2006/7 and not so good this test on a hard flat wicket if you want a more recent example.

Play abandoned for the day.

And with it you think goes the Aussie hopes of regaining the Ashes

Forecast is shocking for here tomorrow. Its belting it down now. Id be suprised if theres any play tomorrow. Bit of a rubbish way to regain the ashses, just hope the weather clears up so we get a game at durham

Well, the criticism of the umpiring may be warranted, but it makes no difference overall with the rain coming half an hour later, as Clarke would have batted on for much of the half-hour they could have played in. All that would have happened would be England chasing 350+ on the last day instead of (probably) 331. I can't see England having a serious go at the target anyway, unless KP gets going.

I think most of the criticism of Clarke is a tad unfair; Australia have played positive cricket in this innings with a RR of 5 per over, and I have long held the view that you can't really captain according to the weather forecast entirely - the forecast has predicted rain for a lot of this test and mostly it has so far failed to materialise. Declaring with a lead of about 250 as some would have had it is all well and good, but you have to remember England scored 360odd first time around - 250 is no longer a difficult chase, and given enough time I'd expect England to get that comfortably. Clarke is trying to get England to bat for survival rather than chase a target, and hope enough balls off the pitch misbehave or England play enough half-hearted shots (e.g. Root, Bairstow and Trott from the first innings).

It is true that the great Australian side of Waugh or Ponting may have taken a gamble (although they wouldn't have been in this situation to start with...), but they had Warne and McGrath to call upon. If Clarke had Warne and McGrath perhaps he would have declared sooner and almost certainly England wouldn't have chased down 250, but he doesn't and they would, so the point is accademic. People need to get over this Australian side being average and not great.

Clarke so far has shown himself to be a very positive and creative captain.

England's over rate was poor, but to be expected given the situation; I don't blame them in the slightest and find Holding's criticism hypocritical in the extreme (this from someone who played for a West Indies side who were happy to slow things down to 10 overs per hour if the game was going against them, once famously avoiding a series defeat in Pakistan because of it). Also, a bit of mitigation should be given by the 2 reviews, the 7 wickets and the high run-rate; all this slows the game down. I do think more should be done on overrates though, but I'm not sure what.

If we get a full days play in tomorrow (which I assume would be 98 overs) then we could have a thriller, but ATM that looks unlikely.

England have been comfortably the better team so far, but a 2-0 lead after 3 tests may flatter them somewhat.

Warner looked so much more confident opening than at 6. It will be interesting to see what Australia do with him and Watson now.

.


Jonathan Agnew, BBC Test Match Special
"The fact is, there's not a single player on either side here whose bowling could be described as dangerous."


Bit harsh

Dangerous? As in threat to life and limb? Or as in a good bowler?

Moment of Truth Day Tomorrow:

Aus have to forget the curtailed day and losses to rains and the frsutrations ensuing thereof.

the've gotta play with whatever overs can get in tomorrow......98 it might be if it's a full and extended day.......and on a D5 pitch....this is enough to win a test...is how Aus should look at it.

OR work with whatever overs they get......even if they have only 70.....they can go all out on attack...with several close-ins guaranteed that the total is impossible to surpass.


England's case is more one sided....rain is thrown win out of the equation for them largely but not entirely.

if they batted today and finished at about 90 odd for 1....Eng could have looked forward to chasing down 240odd on D5.

NOW 330 in 100 odd overs is doable but very very difficult...and should rain pluck out 10 odd overs more it's impossible.

which means Aus can and will go all out attack with several close-ins.

Moment of truth for Australia to push with all might and get an equalizer...and for English marekdly superior batting to rise one more time.....and hold on to the ashes.

great entertainment in strore

Amazed that Clarke didn't declare at around just after lunch, i.e. when they were around 280 ahead given the weather forecast - which by the way are never that inaccurate enough to ignore when it says that the final day will half at least half a day or rain


After all we are all told how bold he is

KP_fan wrote:Moment of Truth Day Tomorrow:

Aus have to forget the curtailed day and losses to rains and the frsutrations ensuing thereof.

the've gotta play with whatever overs can get in tomorrow......98 it might be if it's a full and extended day.......and on a D5 pitch....this is enough to win a test...is how Aus should look at it.

OR work with whatever overs they get......even if they have only 70.....they can go all out on attack...with several close-ins guaranteed that the total is impossible to surpass.


England's case is more one sided....rain is thrown win out of the equation for them largely but not entirely.

if they batted today and finished at about 90 odd for 1....Eng could have looked forward to chasing down 240odd on D5.

NOW 330 in 100 odd overs is doable but very very difficult...and should rain pluck out 10 odd overs more it's impossible.

which means Aus can and will go all out attack with several close-ins.

Moment of truth for Australia to push with all might and get an equalizer...and for English marekdly superior batting to rise one more time.....and hold on to the ashes.

great entertainment in strore

Indeed KP_Fan indeed.

Hopefully the weather holds off, as we have a potentially cracking final day in store.

However it doesn't look good at all.

Tom Moody and Bob Willis now having a go at Broad for walking on the Verdict. World's gone mad.

Bob Willis is only happy when he's moaning about something or other. I tend to switch off when he's talking.

Aus were never declaring short of 300.

Clarke looks a right numpty if it doesn't rain.
The earlier declaration is the one I take issue with

GSC wrote:The earlier declaration is the one I take issue with

I agree. It was either an hour too late (declare at 450 and really get the game moving) or a good hour too early (declare at 600 and really pile on the pressure).

Afraid I won't be able to watch much of the final day, as I'm flying back to sensible (but less exciting) parts of the world throughout the day. I may catch up with scores at my stopover if I can find an internet cafe, but beyond that... Have fun people.

GSC wrote:Aus were never declaring short of 300.

Clarke looks a right numpty if it doesn't rain.
The earlier declaration is the one I take issue with

He looks more of a "numpty" for not believing a weather forecast, that if even only 50% accurate, wouldn't have given England enough time to chase 280  

Let's say that all the forecasts were wrong and it had dried up today - then he's still a hero for at least having a go. The Aus public would understand, after all he is head and shoulders their best player

We need to lose this 'unreliable' weather forecast rubbish that some talk about. Yes, they cannot always get it correct when the conditions are changeable, i.e. the rain came at a different time to the predictions yesterday. But when it's been clear for days that there would be a lot of rain on Monday - I'm amazed that a professional sporting organisation can get caught out so badly. Even Wimbledon (Tennis) have brought forward matches when they knew they were getting a bad day

In all the huge background staff that these teams have, isn't there one that can look at the many websites that can give you accurate weather for the next 24-36hrs?

An amazing foul up by Clarke - so much for his positive captaincy

well its forecast for rain all day and has been lashing it down all morning, i'll repeat that ill be surprised if any play gets going today

compelling and rich wrote:well its forecast for rain all day and has been lashing it down all morning, i'll repeat that ill be surprised if any play gets going today

Not surprising but still very disappointing.

Australia probably already had enough by the time the ''bad light'' and the rain halted proceedings yesterday but I was hoping beyond hope that we might get a solid start and then be treated to some Pietersen fireworks.

I'm sure at least ten of the England team will be delighted if it pours all day. The one who just might be in two minds is Bairstow. An undefeated last day fifty to ensure the match was saved and the Ashes retained would have made his own position far safer. As it is, Taylor continues to breathe down his neck.

Assuming compelling and rich is right about no play today, I'll kick things off for Man of the Match with a shout for Haddin ....

think id go with clarke for mom, even despite all the talk of the declaration. dont think it goings to have mattered much either way

Yeah I'd have to go with Clarke for Man of the Match, brilliant innings.

Shoutout to Mitchell Starc

Aaaaaggghhh!!!

I meant to post - although Clarke will almost certainly get the award, I'll kick things off for Man of the Match with a shout for Haddin ....

Doubt we'll get in any more than 15 overs today. #ashesretained

We'll have the great tease - maybe 40 overs and England on 100-6 and then back comes the rain

Making an earlier declaration even more of a wonder why i didn't happen

11:30 start, heavy rain meant for most of the day.

Can't say the weather for Durham looks too good either.

it is as good an opportunitty Aus would get....when they can go flat out attacking and Eng not even looking to win.

off the radar the Aussie seamers so far...no making the batter play

should we call that a stupid review or a selfish one ?

Cook's poor series continues...

Time for Trotty to step up...

Cooks poor.series continues and they are facing a heavy loss.

So bbc weather useless again I see.

Still heavy rain here.