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PGA Tour: PGA Championship; Fourth Among Equals? Or First??: Notes from the Ballwasher

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PGA Tour: PGA Championship; Fourth Among Equals? Or First??: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty PGA Tour: PGA Championship; Fourth Among Equals? Or First??: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:14 pm

1).It is fashionable to refer to the PGA Championship as the Fourth Major, but in terms of quality of the field, and sometimes course played, it could equally be described as the Best Major. This year's edition, at Oak Hill's East Course, designed by Donald Ross, lengthened by Robert Trent Jones and tweaked (disfigured?) by the Fazios, should be no exception.

2).Oak Hill, in the leafy suburbs of Rochester, NY, should play to a par of 70, and to a length of about 7,200 yards with just two Par-5's. Only Augusta National, Oakmont, Oakland Hills and Baltusrol have staged more Major Championships, and this is the only course to also host the US Amateur, Ryder Cup, US Senior Open and Senior PGA Championship. Can you say "history"?  

3).Several of the pundits, and even some of the golfers, referred to Firestone ("the monstrous repetition of Firestone, which might be the most boring championship golf course known to man" according to Sports Illustrated's Senior Writer), as an ideal warm-up for Oak Hill, but that is a lazy comparison.
Oak Hill offers far more elevation changes and requires the golfer to shape his shots off the tee - it yields birdies reluctantly and eagles will be few and far between. An exception might be the Par-3(!) sixth hole, where Jerry Pate, Doug Weaver, Nick Price and Mark Wiebe all famously holed in one within little more than an hour at the 1989 US Open - and where Costantino Rocca also made a hole-in-one at the '95 Ryder Cup.
I was close by all five of them, missed the lot. But DID see Jack Nicklaus make a hole-in-one at #15 during a practice round for the 1980 PGA, which he went on to win. First I'd ever seen. Thrilled!

4).Not many (excepting Shaun Micheel of course) of this week's field have enjoyed much success at Oak Hill.
~Tom Watson has been playing here since 1980 where he finished 10th behind Nicklaus. Since then he's finished 46th in the 1989 US Open, but missed the cut at the 2003 PGA and finished 16th at the 2008 Senior PGA.
~Davis Love finished 33rd at the 1989 US Open and enjoyed a decent (3-2) Ryder Cup in 1995, but missed the cut at the '03 PGA.
~Phil Mickelson enjoyed a fine Ryder Cup in 1995 as a rookie, winning all three of his matches and then finishing 23rd at the 2003 PGA.
Other action includes:
~1998 US Amateur: Sergio Garcia beat Matt Kuchar in the quarter final but then lost to Hank Kuehne. Adam Scott , CHowellIII and first alternate JJ Henry were among also-rans that year.
~2003 PGA: Those who made the cut included:
Tim Clark: 3rd
Els: 5th - the leading long-hitter.
Howell: 10th
Furyk: 18th
Donald, Phil, Scott: 23rd
Ogilvy: 27th
Harrington, Toms: 29th
Singh: 34th
Woods: 39th (with only 6 birdies, believed to be the career fewest in a 72-hole effort)
Cabrera: 45th
Gay: 51st
Poulter: 61st
Casey: 66th
Choi: 69th.
Those who missed the cut included Beem, Bjorn, Brooks, Cink, Clarke, Garcia, Jacobson, McGinley, Pettersson, Rose (hope he's driving better than during his accident yesterday) and Westwood.

5).Seldom has there been a weekend where it's been as easy to see the wood from the trees:
Woods wins by 7
Woodland wins by 9 (points in modded Stableford)
Wood earns his best ever US finish (7th): (Also 100% from the sand, 3rd in fairways hit, 7th in gir and 8th in putting. Impressive.)

6).Between Firestone and Reno some golfers made big moves towards securing the place in the FedEx Play-Offs, starting of course with Gary Woodland. Andres Romero clinched his place, while Martin Kaymer helped himself and should be OK with a made cut this week.
But some names still with it all to do include:
Appleby
Crane
Colsaerts
Harrington
Cauley
Hanson
Singh
Immelman
etc, etc.

7).And 2 golfers shot 9-hole 28's this past weekend:
Steele on the back-nine at Reno.
Sluman on the Champions Tour on Sunday, birdies on nine of his first ten holes.
Sluman of course grew up in Rochester, learning the game at Oak Hill with Craig Harmon, and it is somewhat surprising not to see him in this week's field.
Walter Hagen was also a Rochester man with PGA Championship victories (five) and who's to say Oak Hill's Gavin Hall won't be the next Rochester native to have his name engraved on the Wanamaker Trophy?

8).The US media is agog with the prospect of a Woods / Mickelson showdown at Oak Hill, but each will have to use his driver more often than they seemingly prefer.
Hank Haney made interesting comments earlier this summer about Tiger's preparation for Majors, suggesting that he doesn't spend as much time practicing and charting the greens and green complexes as he would expect, especially those on courses he knows less well. One thing is for sure: with only 2 x Par-5's (one, the 13th which may be unreachable), he will have to be on Firestone form to contend. (Ominous sign though, that Woods and Stricker played a practice round together Monday afternoon - more putting tips from "Stricks"?)
With Phil, it's more to do with What will Phil do next? As of Monday he still wasn't sure what his 14th club (driver or 64-degree wedge) was to be.  

9).With Phil breaking the run (by Els, Rory, Scott and Rose) of international Major winners, who are the likely lads among Americans this week? I'd say Snedeker must have a great chance, Zach Johnson also - and wouldn't be surprised to see Dufner on the leaderboard if he can hole some of the tiddler putts he missed at Firestone.

Conventional wisdom suggests a great driver will do well this week, an Adam Scott perhaps, Justin Rose or even a Sergio. All will have to putt better than we've seen recently, but Stenson has been doing everything well and great to see Martin Kaymer finding some form.

10).Woods described Oak Hill as "the hardest, fairest golf course the players have ever played" and Els considered it "the best, fairest and toughest championship golf course I've ever played". That was in 2003 when Shaun Micheel outlasted Chad Campbell with his tap-in birdie at the 72nd hole.
It's been a miserably wet summer in the U.S. North-East but the last three weeks have been perfect for golf course preparation and the players will enjoy mild, mostly dry, conditions this week. There has been criticism of the greens and the 8th green was damaged by a tree falling earlier this year, but hopefully all will be well come Thursday.
I still expect the "navigator" to prevail over the "bomber" this week, not Shaun Micheel of course, but possibly Snedeker (30/1, really?) or Zach Johnson (50/1) both of whom look excellent each way value.

PS: I'll be at the action on Thursday and Friday, off the air from Wednesday p.m. through Saturday. Some fantastic groupings to follow and hope you all enjoy a great tournament.


Last edited by kwinigolfer on Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by puligny Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:47 pm

Kwini - what colour shirt, and will you be doing press ups by a green? You choose which one!
Course sounds wonderful, and the weather seems set to make it a great event. Huge pressure on TW, but I see an Englishman winning!
Enjoy


Last edited by puligny on Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:48 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spelling)

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Post by hend085 Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:00 pm

great preview thanks Kwini. snedeker and Zach both on my shortlist!
do you think TW will hit many drivers or will he be content with having long irons into greens?


Last edited by hend085 on Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:12 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)

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Post by Diggers Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:04 pm

I don't really buy Woods being under more pressure. Would he rather be playing carp and under less pressure rather than stamping all over a high quality WGC field ? I think not.
Whoever gets into contention on the back 9 on Sunday will be under the same amount of pressure to win, basically a lot.

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Post by kwinigolfer Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:27 pm

Ha puligny,
No press-ups and Ashworth hasn't told me what colour shirts to wear yet. But, if the shouts of "In da hole" and "mashed potato" are drowned out by a plaintive PUP, you know that's moi.

Hope Gw was Glorious last Friday, and rewarding!


Cheers hend0,
If Oak Hill is playing especially firm, perhaps he'll be able to get away with some 3-woods and stingers, but Baker Finch kept on saying last weekend that the critical point in access to OH's greens is at 290 yds off the tee. So if the course is soft, and for uphill landing areas, all will have to use driver off some tees. From memory, #'s 2, 5, 10, 12, 14 and probably 16 will allow a shorter club off the tee, possibly the par-5's too if they are deemed "unreachable".
Whatever happens, the players will need to "work" the ball a little more than they're used to, and the winner will also require superb distance control on his short irons.

Pressure on Tiger? Who knows?
He certainly looks far less relaxed at Majors than for most tournaments, but I suppose most players do.
When things begin to go awry early in his round he seems to "press" more than most for a few holes until something goes right for him again. But no-one grinds out pars like Woods so it'll be fascinating to see how it goes.

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Post by I'm never wrong Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:36 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:PS: I'll be at the action on Thursday and Friday, off the air from Wednesday p.m. through Saturday. Some fantastic groupings to follow and hope you all enjoy a great tournament.

How far will you walk Kwini?

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Post by kwinigolfer Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:59 pm

!!!!
Four 18-hole rounds I hope!!
Some of the greens (3,5/6, 11, 14 and 18) might be a bit difficult to get to so there'll be some by-passing. My son will be following Woods to start with but I'll be after guys I've mostly not seen before and I've followed plenty of Bradley and Love (and some of Tiger - best part of following Woods is his practice routine, even on the green. Amazing. Following him for a succession of holes is only for the fittest though, and tallest.).
McDowell, Els and Haas; and Kuchar, Garcia and Fowler

And probably Colsaerts, Day and Snedeker; and Glover, Poults and Zach or Gonzo, Lukey and Spieth.
So many choices!

Hoping to play 18 early on Saturday morning and, yes, I'll be knackered. Plus 600-mile round trip's worth of driving.

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Post by Diggers Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:17 pm

If we hear the cry of "Go Pompey" on Tigers backswing I think we might know who to blame .....

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Post by SmithersJones Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:00 pm

Thanks Kwini, looking forward to watching even more now. I've had a bet on Rory, but think I'll have some of that 30s on Sneds too.
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Post by John Cregan Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:09 pm

Kwini,

Have a great time at the PGA.

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Post by puligny Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:16 pm

Kwini - PUP indeed!!!! Goodwood was glorious - weather brightened Friday just in time for racing and bookies returned my cash with some of theirs for 3 of the 5 races I had a bet on!!! In all 2 great days, but still not saddling LW with my money! Give him a gee up for me!!!
I'm warming to the idea of a PUPPPU rendition, if only to see the bemused reaction on spectators faces, and Sky explanation!!!

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Post by ralphjohn69 Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:45 pm

Kwini, look out for my buddy Lee Rhind when you're there, paired with Marc Warren & Chris Kirk late on on the Thursday and mid morning on the Friday, Uphall's (and now Midland, Texas)'s finest son! Very Happy 

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Post by kwinigolfer Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:01 am

Thanks chaps!

thumbsup puligny

ralph,
I hadn't forgotten, but am thinking the two Scots (and a Scots name) might be on the other side of the course from where we'll be. But there are a few attractive groups earlier in that "wave" so we'll have to see!

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Post by kwinigolfer Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:47 am

Lots of chat from the PGA this week about the schedule in Olympic year of 2016.
The Rio Olympics open on today's date in 2016, which raises the spectre of a compressed Major calendar for that summer, especially as Finchem seems adamant that the Bridgestone will retain its date prior to the PGA.
So there's the distinct possibility that the pros will go:
Troon, Firestone, Baltusrol in consecutive weeks unless the R&A move The Open forward at least a week.
Regardless, the PGA Tour will have to consider the impact on the FedEx Play Offs - a conflict will only be averted by shifting them in to September.
A bit of a mess!

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Post by McLaren Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:17 am

Kwini

An argument for moving the PGA to october http://www.golfchannel.com/news/doug-ferguson/95th-pga-championship-could-use-some-separation/?cid=twitter_gc_a_pgachamp_october_080613

Kwini wrote:That was in 2003 when Shaun Micheel outlasted Chad Campbell with his tap-in birdie at the 72nd hole.

Does "outlast" not do a little disservice to Micheel?  chad had knocked it to birdie range and Micheel had to match to avoid a play off or even worse.  And he goes and hits it to tap in range.  Remember how excited people on here were about Rose going long on the 72nd, never mind hitting it stone dead.

Hope you have a good time at oak hill.
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Post by George1507 Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:48 am

I notice the R&A hasn't confirmed the 2016 Open dates yet.

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Post by kwinigolfer Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:00 am

Indeed George; it will probably be the week following the Wimbledon Finals.
Lots of ramifications in Britain, for Olympic sports that care, and non-Olympic sports who won't care.

Big impact on the PGA Tour calendar, and sure to be some conflict.
Sounds like the Canadian Open people are also having fits about all the uncertainty.

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Post by sirbenson Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:50 am

Have a great time Kwini!!! Brilliant write up!!!

Good luck this week Padraig!

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Post by Bob_the_Job Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:58 am

Great write up Kwini.


kwinigolfer wrote:.. An exception might be the Par-3(!) sixth hole, where Jerry Pate, Doug Weaver, Nick Price and Mark Wiebe all famously holed in one within little more than an hour at the 1989 US Open ....
Good grief - did the green keeper mistakenly use a bucket instead of a cup?


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Post by kwinigolfer Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:03 pm

Cheers benson,
Hope Harri has a good week - in so many ways he needs it.


Bob,
The other side of that coin is that, when the Senior PGA was here five years ago, Jay Haas won with a winning score of +7 (but the course was dry and the weather mostly cool and breezy).
This will definitely be one of those weeks where par is a good score on every hole, and bogey not too bad. But keep those doubles and triples off your card.

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Post by raycastleunited Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:32 pm

Great writing as always Kwini.

Have a fantastic time at Oak hill. I'll be listening out for your shouts of mashed potato.

There was a new one I heard at Firestone after every Woods shot. Sounded like bibbidi bobbidi boo or something like that.

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Post by kwinigolfer Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:00 pm

Cheers ray,

One thought for all the Tiger Woods fanatics;
Next year's Major venues line up just about perfect for him. He's won at Augusta National, Hoylake and Valhalla, and runnered up at Pinehurst. Fancy his chances to break his drought in 2014? Just a little??

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Post by AlciG Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:22 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:
One thought for all the Tiger Woods fanatics;
Next year's Major venues line up just about perfect for him. He's won at Augusta National, Hoylake and Valhalla, and runnered up at Pinehurst. Fancy his chances to break his drought in 2014? Just a little??

You don't have a clue about us Tiger fanatics furious :
He'll break his drought this year and reach the record next year Doh 

laughing Hug kiss 

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Post by MustPuttBetter Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:04 pm

I remember everyone saying that in 2010 Kwini with Pebble, St Andrews and obviously Augusta in the mix.

He's in a better 'place' now mind you
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Post by Shotrock Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:48 am

Ray - the mindless shout out was "baba bouy", a Howard Stern show reference. Wonderful write up kwin and enjoy Rochester.

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Post by McLaren Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:23 am

Anyone else think Mark Brooks withdrawing so that his pupil and neighbor JJ Henry gets a spot in the PGA is a little dodgy?

They claim it was just a "coincidence".
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Post by MustPuttBetter Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:14 am

What's dodgy about it Mac, if the guy doesn't want to play he doesn't have to play. You get so many of these past winners that can't possibly win any more milking it for as long as they possibly can.

Here you have a guy who is actually being quite selfless and is giving away his place so someone younger and more capable of winning can have a go. Good for him I'd say
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Post by McLaren Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:43 am

So why did he enter in the first place instead of only WD'ing after he finds out his mate can get the spot?
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Post by Diggers Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:10 am

This from a recent Poultry interview -
“I am pretty good under pressure and I might not be under enough pressure on Thursday, Friday and Saturday. That is one of the issues and it has potentially always has been from day one,” Poulter said. “The pressure is there from the first tee shot at the Ryder Cup. There you go. It is no secret is it? But I can't take an injection before I tee off on a Thursday morning.”
Personally I think he is way off. Its the fact that players can shoot lower with relatively less pressure on the first few days that gets them into good positions. Yes Poulter is decent under pressure, but usually on the last day all that means is he is playing decent golf while the leaders go backwards. Its not like he consistently tears up the last 18 holes in a major. If anyone has done that in the past its Donald...and why, because the tournament is already lost...so no pressure.
I also remember him being in some decent positions in the Masters over the weekend at then going into reverse gear so I don't think he is being particularly consistent either.
Plus his biggest strokeplay win came in probably the least pressurised WGC in history, one the top players didn't even bother going to.
Anyway some might find the rest of the interview a decent read -
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/golf/us-pga-championship-ian-poulter-feels-pressure-could-be-the-key-to-breaking-his-major-championship-duck-8750554.html

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Post by themightyone Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:30 am

McDo / Jimenez / Luiten top 5, mark my words

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Post by Bob_the_Job Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:48 am

themightyone wrote:McDo / Jimenez / Luiten top 5, mark my words

Are you saying all three of them will be top 5 (which if it happened would be a remarkably impressive call by you), or one of those three will be top 5 (which is still a good call if it happens, but much less impressive)??
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Post by MustPuttBetter Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:50 am

McLaren wrote:So why did he enter in the first place instead of only WD'ing after he finds out his mate can get the spot?

No idea but why would it be a problem?
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Post by IrnBroon Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:10 am

Can someone please help me.

I fancy a sizeable E/W bet on Dufner, and the best prices I can find are 7 places @30/1, or 6 places @ 35/1.

Which is the better bet.

Thanks

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Post by sirbenson Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:52 am

Brooks as it happens has missed every cut from 2000 to 2012!

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Post by sirbenson Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:53 am

http://www.mobypicture.com/user/Graeme_McDowell/view/15771213
PIN PLACEMENTS

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Post by sirbenson Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:58 am

Good luck today Padraig!!! And also to my other bets Garrigus and Day!!!

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Post by liverbnz Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:14 pm

IrnBroon wrote:Can someone please help me.

I fancy a sizeable E/W bet on Dufner, and the best prices I can find are 7 places @30/1, or 6 places @ 35/1.

Which is the better bet.

Thanks

I would go for the extra place.

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Post by liverbnz Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:31 pm

Shot tracker on pga tour not working?

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Post by IrnBroon Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:51 pm

liverbnz wrote:
IrnBroon wrote:Can someone please help me.

I fancy a sizeable E/W bet on Dufner, and the best prices I can find are 7 places @30/1, or 6 places @ 35/1.

Which is the better bet.

Thanks
I would go for the extra place.
Thanks for the advice, but due to time running out placed my bet before seeing it and went for the bigger odds and 1 less place.
Bet he comes 7th

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Post by jeffwinger Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:08 pm

IrnBroon wrote:
liverbnz wrote:
IrnBroon wrote:Can someone please help me.

I fancy a sizeable E/W bet on Dufner, and the best prices I can find are 7 places @30/1, or 6 places @ 35/1.

Which is the better bet.

Thanks
I would go for the extra place.
Thanks for the advice, but due to time running out placed my bet before seeing it and went for the bigger odds and 1 less place.
Bet he comes 7th
Mathematically you have gone for the correct option. Total potential winnings on the place side of the bet are equal (6 places @ 8.75/1 = 52.5, 7 places @ 7.5/1 = 52.5) while the return for the win side of the bet is obviously higher on the 35/1 option. So the total possible winnings are higher at 35/1 for 6 places. However, like liverbnz says, the other option would have given you an extra chance at a slightly smaller prize - swings and roundabouts.

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Post by EmmDee57 Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:10 pm

Paddy's off to a terrible start.

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Post by beninho Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:10 pm

Thorbjorn Olesen, thought he was going to kick on this year, seems like he is struggling, is it still from when he had a car crash a few months back?

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Post by EmmDee57 Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:03 pm

Tiger off to a steady start.

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Post by ralphjohn69 Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:24 pm

That looked rather like a shank by tiger, poor start from him, good! Very Happy Very Happy 

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Post by ralphjohn69 Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:32 pm

beninho wrote:Thorbjorn Olesen, thought he was going to kick on this year, seems like he is struggling, is it still from when he had a car crash a few months back?
He's level playing the last so not too bad, think that car crash is still affecting him though..

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Post by super_realist Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:50 pm

9 Chins on +1 Yahoo laughing Laugh thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup cake cake Ale Ale Ale Ale 

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Post by Seve_The_Great Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:58 pm

super_realist wrote:9 Chins on +1 Yahoo laughing Laugh thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup cake cake Ale Ale Ale Ale 
And yet you were convieniently absent when he won by 7 last week when he won by seven super?

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Post by Seve_The_Great Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:01 pm

Sorry wasn't concentrating. Didn't mean to repeat myself. But you get my point!

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Post by Sand Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:02 pm

No interviews given from Tiger.....

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Post by ralphjohn69 Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:04 pm

Sand wrote:No interviews given from Tiger.....
PHud with a capital PH, just hasn't got it in majors anymore; wgc's & regular tour events are fairly meaningless in the grand scheme of things..

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