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Ben Smith : World Class Personified

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doctor_grey
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GloriousEmpire
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Post by GloriousEmpire Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:54 am

First topic message reminder :

There's been a lot of love shown for Ben Smith in recent times. The versatile Kiwi back has been in impressive form in super and provincial rugby and raised many untrained eyebrows when he was included in the All Blacks squad for the French internationals in the absence of SBW, Conrad Smith, Richard Kahui and Corey Jane at the expensive of wingers and centres who were lit up more brightly on the global radar.

However he was undoubtably the spark in an otherwise often ponderous All Blacks back line (aside from stellar cameos from the peerless impact of powerful and unflinching Rene Ranger.)

Smith has demonstrated extraordinary ability to read the game and times his injection from wing or full back with faultless accuracy. He is one of those players who always seems to get the bounce of the ball, always has more time than those around him, appears on the supporting shoulder of a player making the break, arrives to make the timely last ditch tackle, scythes unexpectedly at an angle the defensive line cannot cover, makes the magical short kick  that casts an organised defense into disarray or knows just when to act as the unselfish link man with a fast mind and even faster hands. 

Such is his vision and skill, that the game often seems to be going on in slow motion around him. He reminds me of a sort if hybrid of Jeff Wilson and Christian Cullen with a bit of Conrad Smith and David Campese thrown in.

This kind if high tempo skill execution is the antithesis of Gatlandball. Which will provide us with some entertaining contrasts in upcoming matches no doubt.

Ben Smith seems the natural evolution of the wing-fullback. The attacking nous and pace of a Joe Rokocoko blended with the aerial skills and kicking precision of a Corey Jane and the spatial awareness in the tight of Conrad Smith. He evokes the aura of the great French play making backs with flair and unpredictability and conjures up images of the legendary Welsh players JPR or Bennet.

There's no doubt that this guy is a new kind if super-talent in a purple patch of form and the way he makes even his All Blacks team mates appear ponderous and ordinary says something for the revolutionary level of match aptitude he is bringing to the game.

In my mind this kind of back play revolution has not been seen since Chris Ashton invented following the ball.

Thoughts?


Last edited by GloriousEmpire on Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:55 am; edited 4 times in total

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Post by GloriousEmpire Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:40 pm

Its actually staggering the number of fledgling careers destroyed by NH club rugby. Luke McAllistair's potential was wrecked. And don't mention Caucaunibuca!

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:47 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:Its actually staggering the number of fledgling careers destroyed by NH club rugby. Luke McAllistair's potential was wrecked. And don't mention Caucaunibuca!
Yea it works both ways, you've ruined Haskell for us.

SA's seem to do ok though, Kruger & Louw over the last few years have received more Int recognition after a spell in the NH.

Depends on the player/culture I guess, perhaps players from NZ relax a bit more once out of the gold fish bowl that is NZ rugby.

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Post by Scrumdown Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:35 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:
Scrumdown wrote:
kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Oh dear. I'm a Canterbury man but Leon MacDonald has never done what Ben Smith has done. Smith has way more talent. He's played at centre and has done very well there. MacDonald played there and it was a rucking disaster!
Smith has talent but is not world class. He doesn't have world class physical attributes or world class speed.  He is a good footballer in the way that blen blair and leon mcdonald were good footballers.  Nothing more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcKPv8lHcoA

Most of these highlights are at provincial level. I think the fact that he is a white european outside back is a bit of a novelty in New Zealand these days and some are therefore pushing him forward when in reality the all blacks have better options.





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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:21 pm

Corey Jane is injured so no doubt Ben Smith will plug that gap. He is still fairly new on the scene in terms of the ABs but we can see his game developing and his confidence grow. The rest of your comment doesn't need any further remark.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:28 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:......In my mind this kind of back play revolution has not been seen since Chris Ashton............
The Prototype

There are leaders.
There are followers.
Ashton, as mentioned here, is clearly a leader...............

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Post by GloriousEmpire Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:31 pm

Scrumdown wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:
Scrumdown wrote:
kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Oh dear. I'm a Canterbury man but Leon MacDonald has never done what Ben Smith has done. Smith has way more talent. He's played at centre and has done very well there. MacDonald played there and it was a rucking disaster!
Smith has talent but is not world class. He doesn't have world class physical attributes or world class speed.  He is a good footballer in the way that blen blair and leon mcdonald were good footballers.  Nothing more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcKPv8lHcoA

Most of these highlights are at provincial level.  I think the fact that he is a white european outside back is a bit of a novelty in New Zealand these days and some are therefore pushing him forward when in reality the all blacks have better options.




That's a bit of an imposed view. That sort of racism doesn't exist in NZ as it might in other places who for instance might start to chant a southern spiritual number if their team fielded a black player who had done quite well.

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Post by Cyril Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:43 pm

I thinking you're reaping what you've sown here Mr Empire.

Classy of you to accuse the English of being racist when the one who made the comment about NZ is Welsh. Still, any chance for a dig, eh?

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Post by GloriousEmpire Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:09 pm

You are right Cyril. I was completely wrong to do that. I apologise.

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Post by nganboy Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:08 am

Scrumdown wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:
Scrumdown wrote:
kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Oh dear. I'm a Canterbury man but Leon MacDonald has never done what Ben Smith has done. Smith has way more talent. He's played at centre and has done very well there. MacDonald played there and it was a rucking disaster!
Smith has talent but is not world class. He doesn't have world class physical attributes or world class speed.  He is a good footballer in the way that blen blair and leon mcdonald were good footballers.  Nothing more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcKPv8lHcoA

Most of these highlights are at provincial level.  I think the fact that he is a white european outside back is a bit of a novelty in New Zealand these days and some are therefore pushing him forward when in reality the all blacks have better options.




That's a low class scrum down. Anyway who are the better options?
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Post by aucklandlaurie Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:42 am

Scrumdown wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:
Scrumdown wrote:
kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Oh dear. I'm a Canterbury man but Leon MacDonald has never done what Ben Smith has done. Smith has way more talent. He's played at centre and has done very well there. MacDonald played there and it was a rucking disaster!
Smith has talent but is not world class. He doesn't have world class physical attributes or world class speed.  He is a good footballer in the way that blen blair and leon mcdonald were good footballers.  Nothing more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcKPv8lHcoA

Most of these highlights are at provincial level. I think the fact that he is a white european outside back is a bit of a novelty in New Zealand these days and some are therefore pushing him forward when in reality the all blacks have better options.






Conrad Smith and Beauden Barrett have somewhat white skin, I hadnt noticed anyone push them forward because of their lack of browness.

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Post by GloriousEmpire Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:25 am

No wonder Israel Dagg, Corey Jane, Dan Carter, Christian Cullen, Jeff Wilson, Justin Marshall, Byron kelleher, David kirk, John Kirwan, John Gallagher, Andrew mehrtens and grant fox all failed to make it as all blacks eh? Just not brown enough.

Still it does explain the confusion over Tony Browns selection.

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Post by nganboy Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:41 am

I'm pretty sure Dagg and Cullen have a little bit of brown in them but they're white enough to be white so they must be novelties too.
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Post by GloriousEmpire Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:45 am

It was more about set up for the tony brown gag to be honest.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:47 am

It was a good gag

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:48 am

It was Tony's parties at his place that curried favour with the selectors. He really knew how to throw a good party and take the right photos.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:37 pm

Look at 1:45 if you want to see the Smiths in action in black. Ben doesn't look short of gas in that try: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh3jpdIcxzc.

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Post by Hood83 Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:47 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:
Hood83 wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:He reminds me more of Aaron Mauger. The finest 12 ever produced.
I've heard a lot about this guy. The namesake of another ex-AB who played for Leicester for a little bit. Massive difference of course as the Leicester Mauger was utter pants. Couldn't handle the searing pace of NH rugby I'd guess.
 Mate. My grandfather flew a bomber in his heyday and was a highly decorated pilot. When he to got to the retirement home he sat in a big chair with his arms outstretched and made dribbly airplane noises, whilst collecting his large pension payments.

Same same.
I think Mauger was 26 when he signed for Leicester, pretty much coming into his prime.
 Its all a question of motivation then,
Perhaps.

In his prime for the ABs and cantab Mauger was legendary. If the coaching structures in the NH are inadequate and the incentives incorrectly aligned then that may explain a host of other issues perhaps, such as The NHs general squandering of vast talent resources?
Pretty certain he did a bit of informal coaching of the backs at the Tigers. So perhaps his coaching was responsible for his own complete mediocrity. This Ben Smith guy looks alright though.

P.S. - I will not hear a bad word said about the NHS...

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Post by GloriousEmpire Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:28 am

If you guys can't appreciate Aaron Mauger then it says a lot about your misunderstanding of the game. To get anywhere these are the failures of comprehension you will have to tackle.

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Post by The Saint Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:42 pm

I believe this article sums up Adam Ashley-Cooper to a T.

Ben who?

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Post by GloriousEmpire Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:45 pm

AAC cleans Ben Smith's boots. On days when he hasn't played well.

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Post by The Saint Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:47 pm

Two-dads over Ben Smith any day; O'Connor and Beale too. Three players who can play in every position in the backline and still look world class. Ben Smith isn't there just yet, but he isn't far off either.

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Post by nganboy Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:21 am

AAC has delivered for Aus many times, I think he can be a brilliant player. Unfortunately most Aus players have looked a bit poor recently. You could say the same thing for O'Connor and Beale. May be the Lions were just brilliant or may be Deans knocked the stuffing out of the Wallabies.

Ben Smith has played really well for a couple of seasons at Super level and was excellent for the ABs but doesn't have a long term history at that level yet. I think he was one of the best against the French .
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Post by Cyril Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:17 am

To think that we in the North get accused of overrating our players...

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Post by GloriousEmpire Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:32 pm

And sometimes that is true Cyril. But I think Ben Smith can be your benchmark from now. To me only a handful if NH players have reached his potential even at the zenith of their time. I can't even think where Smith will take the game next! But it sure is an exciting prospect.

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Post by Cyril Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:34 pm

Laugh

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Post by aucklandlaurie Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:34 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:And sometimes that is true Cyril. But I think Ben Smith can be your benchmark from now. To me only a handful if NH players have reached his potential even at the zenith of their time. I can't even think where Smith will take the game next! But it sure is an exciting prospect.

He's taking the game from right wing on saturday night.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:57 pm

All 3 Smiths looked good tonight.

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Post by GloriousEmpire Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:58 pm

World class, personified.

Any Brit with three against the Wallabies would have bronze statue erected on trafalgar squares fourth plinth.

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Post by blackcanelion Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:08 am

JJ Williams Cardiff 1975

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Post by GunsGerms Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:11 pm

Ben Smith does look genuinely very good. However, he and Savea should really stay well clear of comedy. Very cringeworthy:

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/julian-savea-ben-smith-bomb-squad-1047049-Aug2013/

What is it with the ABs and really embarassing home made videos?

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Post by disneychilly Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:52 pm

Because Guns, if you watch those guys do the haka with the image of them acting like clowns in those videos in your head, you internally wet yourself laughing.

Bang, you're distracted. 5-0 kick to come.

Very Happy

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Post by funnyExiledScot Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:15 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:
Hood83 wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:He reminds me more of Aaron Mauger. The finest 12 ever produced.
I've heard a lot about this guy. The namesake of another ex-AB who played for Leicester for a little bit. Massive difference of course as the Leicester Mauger was utter pants. Couldn't handle the searing pace of NH rugby I'd guess.
 Mate. My grandfather flew a bomber in his heyday and was a highly decorated pilot. When he to got to the retirement home he sat in a big chair with his arms outstretched and made dribbly airplane noises, whilst collecting his large pension payments.

Same same.
Brilliant. Laugh

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Post by GloriousEmpire Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:16 pm

Again Ben Smith shows himself to be the greatest back in world rugby.

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Post by The Saint Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:17 pm

He's as good as Corey Jane right now, which is an okay standard.

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Post by Guest Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:19 pm

Ben's ok, scores a tonne of tries mind.

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Post by GloriousEmpire Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:20 pm

As good as a World Cup winner...not a bad standard. Equal best in the world. Amazing the depth in NZ rugby right now isn't it? Fifth best 10 is still the fifth best in the world. Luatua a new comer is now the worlds  premier open side and Ben Smith a utility back in for injury cover is the top try scorer in internationals this season. Staggering stuff.

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Post by The Saint Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:23 pm

Mike Tindall was a world cup winner. Maybe Tom Taylor will be up to his standard one day.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:24 pm

You're getting boring again ghost......

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Post by GloriousEmpire Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:24 pm

A decade ago. The world moved on mate, maybe you should too...

Balshaw is also a World Cup winning fullback. Something halfpenny can only dream of.

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Post by The Saint Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:26 pm

Halfpenny is player of the 6 Nations, players of the Lions series and will probably be IRB player of the year. He doesn't need to dream Smile. Maybe Ben Smith should aspire to Halfpenny so he can improve his game.

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Post by GloriousEmpire Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:28 pm

touched a nerve there then? Be nice for 1/2p if he could just fulfil his dream of a win against Australia in welsh colours. Or I imagine the dream of any Welshman born in the last 60 years just for anything as good as a draw against the mighty All Blacks...

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:31 pm

No nerve, just a pointless post.

How can Taylor be 5th best FH in world when Farrell, Flood and Burns are 1,2,3?? That would put Carter or Cruden out of top 5?!?!

Get a grip fella.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:32 pm

He's had a great season Saint. Hopefully Gatland will see how he played in the 3rd test and get him to chance his arm more. Would be good to see him get on the score sheet as much as Ben because his talent deserves him not to be shackled. You only see how Smith has benefited from Dagg entering the line.

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Post by GloriousEmpire Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:34 pm

You are entitled to your opinion Pooly. Sometimes delusions are a great  antidote to hopelessness. Sorry things don't always turn out the way you want, but hang in there!

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:36 pm

Looks like we're deluded together, I quite like the artistic licence though.

Chris Ashton greatest ever winger? I think so

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Post by The Saint Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:36 pm

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:He's had a great season Saint. Hopefully Gatland will see how he played in the 3rd test and get him to chance his arm more. Would be good to see him get on the score sheet as much as Ben because his talent deserves him not to be shackled. You only see how Smith has benefited from Dagg entering the line.
Hopefully so kia. He's been playing his heart out for a long time, during Wales' low-point so I'm glad he's getting the accolades. Ben Smith is beginning to look the real deal too, and it will be interesting to see if his strike rate continues throughout the tournament. Do you see him as a back 3 player, or eventually moving in to the 13 jersey?

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:45 pm

He's plugging gaps at the mo Saint. 14 is probably the worst position to showcase his talents. 15 is his best but Dagg has refiscovered his form. Conrad won't tour in November so Ben will be at 13. Don't expect any drop off in 13. He's played there before and looked sharp. We're lucky to have him as I think he's better than AAC who can also play those positions comfortably.

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Post by Taylorman Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:53 pm

Smiths late development reminds of Bunces late run. Means he'll be around a while with the positions he can cover. He's the real bonus this year. Been in our midst forever on the fringes but has made huge gains this year. Hansen should consider him thankful players are surfacing on a regular basis. ...Now to sort Nonu out...

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:59 pm

Is it time to test Salii at 12 against Arg and rest Nonu for SA? 12 is a position where we're not testing depth.

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Post by nganboy Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:40 am

Tom Taylor plays 12 for Crusaders. Might do well outside Carter and Cruden, bit soft though.
nganboy
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Ben Smith : World Class Personified - Page 2 Empty Re: Ben Smith : World Class Personified

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