Ban the Drop Goal (GE fixes rugby : Part Two)

It's time to deliver rugby from this scourge.

My proposal is that a drop goal not be banned from the game, but instead be made worth 0 points, with a restart with an opposition free kick from where the drop goal was taken. 

This would be back dated to 1986. All matches won by drop goal would be awarded to the opposition.

That would mean Ireland have beaten the All blacks. You sure you want to back date it?

Fair is fair.

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I'd like to ensure that any side having a bit of tummy trouble would automatically win the game. It's only fair.

After all, I really don't want to see New Zealand lose again. It's just not right.

Too generous Cyril. We need England to win *sometimes*. About once per decade keeps it interesting.

Dunno about your maths Guns, if the margin was 3 and Carter didn't throw it over then that would make it a draw wouldn't it?

Wish DC had JW's dropkicking prowess under pressure. He's missed a few all right-the Ireland one was lucky as it was almost point blank. I'd love to have seen that one in Brisbane last year go over. Though not as much as Mehrts' one in 95...

disneychilly wrote:Dunno about your maths Guns, if the margin was 3 and Carter didn't throw it over then that would make it a draw wouldn't it?

Wish DC had JW's dropkicking prowess under pressure. He's missed a few all right-the Ireland one was lucky as it was almost point blank. I'd love to have seen that one in Brisbane last year go over. Though not as much as Mehrts' one in 95...

You got me there but we would have won this one even though its before the cut off date.

Test Match: November 4, 1978

IRELAND 6 NEW ZEALAND 10, Lansdowne Road (HT: 3-3)

Scorers: Ireland: Pens: Tony Ward 2

New Zealand: Try: Andy Dalton; Drops: Doug Bruce 2
Ireland: L Moloney; T Kennedy, A McKibbin, M Gibson, A McLennan; T Ward, C Patterson; P Orr, P Whelan, N Byrne, M Keane, D Spring, F Slattery, S Deering (capt), W Duggan.

Replacements: M Fitzpatrick, C Fitzgerald, J O'Driscoll, J Moloney, M Quinn.

New Zealand: C Currie; S Wilson, W Osborne, N Taylor, B Ford; D Bruce, M Donaldson; B Johnstone, A Dalton, B Bush, A Haden, F Oliver, G Mourie (capt), L Rutledge, G Seear.

Replacements: B Williams, J Black, D Loveridge, B McKechnie, J Fleming.

Referee: C Norling (Wales)

Apologies mate. Didn't know about the 78 test.

The Drop goal isn't used enough, easy way to keep the score board ticking over.

Make it worth 4pts

Nope, the drop goal is just fine.

Ban the try.

Why ban the drop goal.... its a great attacking tool and a very difficult skill to master.

Fear of the drop goal pins back defences, puts men on the charge down whereas usually they'd be in the defensive line.

How often are the utilised... I would say if you see more than 1 scored per game on average it would be a surprise... and how many of those are scored when the attacking team already has a penalty and just want 2 shots at goal?

Just because you see specialists like Wilkinson, O'Gara and Steyn smash them over doesn't mean they are not rare or difficult. Dan Carter doesn't do them often...because he doesn't want to???? Bull, its because he's poor at them in general.

See the SF of the SR the other day... he fluffed one in memory and he's done that a few times in his career too. So has Wilkinson, so has Steyn but most of the time he's been poor from memory.. perhaps because he doesn't practice as much as his peers.

I bet you weren't slamming them down when Jannie De Beer was on fire 14 years ago?

disneychilly wrote:Apologies mate. Didn't know about the 78 test.

Neither did I until I looked it up.

fa0019 wrote:Why ban the drop goal.... its a great attacking tool and a very difficult skill to master.

Fear of the drop goal pins back defences, puts men on the charge down whereas usually they'd be in the defensive line.

How often are the utilised... I would say if you see more than 1 scored per game on average it would be a surprise... and how many of those are scored when the attacking team already has a penalty and just want 2 shots at goal?

Just because you see specialists like Wilkinson, O'Gara and Steyn smash them over doesn't mean they are not rare or difficult. Dan Carter doesn't do them often...because he doesn't want to???? Bull, its because he's poor at them in general.

See the SF of the SR the other day... he fluffed one in memory and he's done that a few times in his career too. So has Wilkinson, so has Steyn but most of the time he's been poor from memory.. perhaps because he doesn't practice as much as his peers.

I bet you weren't slamming them down when Jannie De Beer was on fire 14 years ago?

The drop goal is fine except a missed one should be punished by a scrum from where the ball was kicked.It would discourage the long range shot for nothing efforts that imo are too prevalent these days.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Why ban the drop goal.... its a great attacking tool and a very difficult skill to master.

Fear of the drop goal pins back defences, puts men on the charge down whereas usually they'd be in the defensive line.

How often are the utilised... I would say if you see more than 1 scored per game on average it would be a surprise... and how many of those are scored when the attacking team already has a penalty and just want 2 shots at goal?

Just because you see specialists like Wilkinson, O'Gara and Steyn smash them over doesn't mean they are not rare or difficult. Dan Carter doesn't do them often...because he doesn't want to???? Bull, its because he's poor at them in general.

See the SF of the SR the other day... he fluffed one in memory and he's done that a few times in his career too. So has Wilkinson, so has Steyn but most of the time he's been poor from memory.. perhaps because he doesn't practice as much as his peers.

I bet you weren't slamming them down when Jannie De Beer was on fire 14 years ago?

The drop goal is fine except a missed one should be punished by a scrum from where the ball was kicked.It would discourage the long range shot for nothing efforts that imo are too prevalent these days.

+10000000

if you attempt a drop goal/kick and it goes beyond the dead goal area isn't it a scrum anyhow??? ... or is it only ball to hand?

I'm not seeing enough capitals, guys.

fa0019 wrote:if you attempt a drop goal/kick and it goes beyond the dead goal area isn't it a scrum anyhow??? ... or is it only ball to hand?

If you miss a drop goal it's a 22 drop out so you can take a kick from behind the half way line and then have a decent chance of recovering possession deep in attacking territory.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Why ban the drop goal.... its a great attacking tool and a very difficult skill to master.

Fear of the drop goal pins back defences, puts men on the charge down whereas usually they'd be in the defensive line.

How often are the utilised... I would say if you see more than 1 scored per game on average it would be a surprise... and how many of those are scored when the attacking team already has a penalty and just want 2 shots at goal?

Just because you see specialists like Wilkinson, O'Gara and Steyn smash them over doesn't mean they are not rare or difficult. Dan Carter doesn't do them often...because he doesn't want to???? Bull, its because he's poor at them in general.

See the SF of the SR the other day... he fluffed one in memory and he's done that a few times in his career too. So has Wilkinson, so has Steyn but most of the time he's been poor from memory.. perhaps because he doesn't practice as much as his peers.

I bet you weren't slamming them down when Jannie De Beer was on fire 14 years ago?

The drop goal is fine except a missed one should be punished by a scrum from where the ball was kicked.It would discourage the long range shot for nothing efforts that imo are too prevalent these days.

Why, then you might as well have a held up try be sent to the 22 or from where the move started as well.

All you need to do is flip John O'Neill a fiver or two and I'm sure the matter will be raised with the IRB. Even if he's out I'm sure he still has his dirty fingers in the IRB pie someway or another.

Biltong wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Why ban the drop goal.... its a great attacking tool and a very difficult skill to master.

Fear of the drop goal pins back defences, puts men on the charge down whereas usually they'd be in the defensive line.

How often are the utilised... I would say if you see more than 1 scored per game on average it would be a surprise... and how many of those are scored when the attacking team already has a penalty and just want 2 shots at goal?

Just because you see specialists like Wilkinson, O'Gara and Steyn smash them over doesn't mean they are not rare or difficult. Dan Carter doesn't do them often...because he doesn't want to???? Bull, its because he's poor at them in general.

See the SF of the SR the other day... he fluffed one in memory and he's done that a few times in his career too. So has Wilkinson, so has Steyn but most of the time he's been poor from memory.. perhaps because he doesn't practice as much as his peers.

I bet you weren't slamming them down when Jannie De Beer was on fire 14 years ago?

The drop goal is fine except a missed one should be punished by a scrum from where the ball was kicked.It would discourage the long range shot for nothing efforts that imo are too prevalent these days.

Why, then you might as well have a held up try be sent to the 22 or from where the move started as well.

Really can't see how you come to that conclusion,drop goals and tries are completely different whereas a missed drop goal is just another type of kick that goes past the dead ball line.If a kick out on the full is punished by a scrum back then why should drop goals be any different.

If we could back date the try being worth 5 points to 1973 then we would have beaten the all blacks there too.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Biltong wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Why ban the drop goal.... its a great attacking tool and a very difficult skill to master.

Fear of the drop goal pins back defences, puts men on the charge down whereas usually they'd be in the defensive line.

How often are the utilised... I would say if you see more than 1 scored per game on average it would be a surprise... and how many of those are scored when the attacking team already has a penalty and just want 2 shots at goal?

Just because you see specialists like Wilkinson, O'Gara and Steyn smash them over doesn't mean they are not rare or difficult. Dan Carter doesn't do them often...because he doesn't want to???? Bull, its because he's poor at them in general.

See the SF of the SR the other day... he fluffed one in memory and he's done that a few times in his career too. So has Wilkinson, so has Steyn but most of the time he's been poor from memory.. perhaps because he doesn't practice as much as his peers.

I bet you weren't slamming them down when Jannie De Beer was on fire 14 years ago?

The drop goal is fine except a missed one should be punished by a scrum from where the ball was kicked.It would discourage the long range shot for nothing efforts that imo are too prevalent these days.

Why, then you might as well have a held up try be sent to the 22 or from where the move started as well.

Really can't see how you come to that conclusion,drop goals and tries are completely different whereas a missed drop goal is just another type of kick that goes past the dead ball line.If a kick out on the full is punished by a scrum back then why should drop goals be any different.

Disagree, whether you go for a drop goal or diving over the line, it is a direct attempt to score points during regular play. It is coming from a penalty or set phase, it comes after a set phase, maul, ruck, pass etc.

Was a 10 10 draw. Our best ever result against them and a week before they lost to the babas in the game of the century.

people always hawk on about drop goal negative.... try positive. If so go and watch some SR from the S10s and S12 days.... the huge scorelines turned the game into a joke much of the time. More is not always better.

Outside of the the highveld I don't know of many who can score from their own half bar Frans Steyn.... a few in France but I think thats more to do with conditions and pitch size... same players in test match stadiums don't have the same range.

fa0019 wrote:people always hawk on about drop goal negative.... try positive. If so go and watch some SR from the S10s and S12 days.... the huge scorelines turned the game into a joke much of the time. More is not always better.

Outside of the the highveld I don't know of many who can score from their own half bar Frans Steyn.... a few in France but I think thats more to do with conditions and pitch size... same players in test match stadiums don't have the same range.

jonny sexton HC final 09. Rob Kearney HC semi 12.

fa0019 wrote:people always hawk on about drop goal negative.... try positive. If so go and watch some SR from the S10s and S12 days.... the huge scorelines turned the game into a joke much of the time. More is not always better.

Outside of the the highveld I don't know of many who can score from their own half bar Frans Steyn.... a few in France but I think thats more to do with conditions and pitch size... same players in test match stadiums don't have the same range.

Fort me the problem isn't about whether you can score or not,a well struck long range drop goal is a thing of beauty.

The problem I have is that missing a drop goal from inside your own half means you get a good chance of winning the ball back in a much better attacking position.It's a cheap way to get field position with little risk and a cop out for full backs who might be isolated by a good kick/chase.

People forget that the abs were a forward dominated tough team back in the day.

You could argue that it was the skill of the 71 lions backs that started the change to the free flowing stuff they are famous for now.

Drop goals should be allowed but if you miss the 3 points go to the opposition

If a drop kick is used to go for touch don't the same laws apply as for a punt? So presumably the referee has to adjudicate on intent when deciding how to restart after a drop kick going over say the touch in-goal line?

disneychilly wrote:Apologies mate. Didn't know about the 78 test.

 I said backdated to 1986 not 1978

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:People forget that the abs were a forward dominated tough team back in the day.

You could argue that it was the skill of the 71 lions backs that started the change to the free flowing stuff they are famous for now.

From Wiki: A representative New Zealand team, since referred to as the Originals, first toured the British Isles in 1905. The emergence of the name All Blacks occurred during this tour when, according to team member Billy Wallace, a London newspaper reported that the New Zealanders played as if they were "all backs".[14]

So you could argue that we could do free flowing stuff before 71.


Personally I don't like the drop goal. I think 2 points and scrum back if missed.

Right.

Thanks for the amazing response and all the great ideas.

If Incorrelate those together it seems to be concensus for the following:

1. The drop goal stays
2. Any player attempting one is immediately issued a red card, and
3. A four month ban from all rugby, and
4. Must serve the equivalent custodial sentence in the local jurisdiction of the game's host as a man convicted of forcibly injecting a fatal dose of heroine into a kidnapped nun.
5. If the attempt misses, a yellow card and 5 meter attacking scrum to the opposition.
6. A successful drop goal will be worth -11 points.

fa0019 wrote:if you attempt a drop goal/kick and it goes beyond the dead goal area isn't it a scrum anyhow??? ... or is it only ball to hand?

If you miss the drop goal and it goes dead it is a 22 restart.

If it doesn't go dead then play continues, unless the defence dab it down in goal. Then it is a 22 restart.