Who's higher - Bowe's wins vs Wlad's longevity ???

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Riddick Bowe gets a tough rap on here...Wrongly accused of cowardice against Lewis ..when in all reality as in the KO head to head most picked him to beat a 1994-Lewis (that's a 1994 Lewis!!).........Remember Eddie futch just before mccall stuffed Lewis saying he didn't rate him at all...For sure he had a duck in the hunt but he was right not too....Lewis was average back then !!..Bowe knocks him out for me..

However...........If you consider a win to be a win..............

Bowe beat a prime Hofer in Holyfield twice.........a top rated Pierre Coetzer...........Unbeaten Larry Donald...........unbeaten highly rated Jorge Luis Gonzalez......Unbeaten Herbie Hide...and like it or not an unbeaten Andrew Golota twice too.........(Louis is credited with walcott 1 and even he believed he lost that!!)

Considering Wlad was punched out by the less than stellar Sanders and Brewster...Though he avenged the latter...Haye apart who is in no way shape or form a peak Holyfield .........he's fought years of crud.............

How much emphasis do you put in longevity...........Me I don't put much...I don't think Eusebio Pedroza was a great fighter...He is because Laporte apart he beat crud for seven years.........Taylor the best fighter he fought he drew with.........Olivares was shot when Eusebio fought him....

I find Bowe's record more impressive than Wlad's..........A peak Holyfield is a wonderful win and Holy is a top 10 heavy for me !!

Not Wlad's fault but he hasn't really fought anybody.......

For me Bowe is higher..........

Lumbering_Jack wrote:And so it begins, again.

I can assure you it doesn't

monty junior wrote:The problem for Bowe in this match up is he never faced a big puncher. Bowe also had an awful defence so if he was caught he would be sleeping. 50/50 for me.

This.
Say what you like about Wlad but the guy has colossal strength and his straight right hand has enough power to shake the most durable guy to their core.
Any guy who fights Wlad with a leaky defence is in for a potentially gruelling night regardless of whatever other advantages they may have.

I'm not sure any of that matters when Bowe will be winning the battle of the jabs, if Wlad can't establish his jab then his power won't mean a thing and against someone with the same reach and a stronger jab that wont happen.

Since when was it a cast-iron guarantee that Bowe will win the jabbing battle?

Bowe had an absolutely outstanding jab - when he used it. It's well known, however, that he often neglected his main weapon and strength because he was a little dull in the skull. Even against Holyfield first time out, he fell in to lulls where he didn't keep distance and utilise his jab properly. It was his inside fighting and uppercuts against the incoming Evander which won that fight as much as anything else.

Outstanding performance from Bowe, but in fairness I don't know if he'd be able to push Wladimir about on the inside and up close as he did with Holyfield, so he'd maybe have to alter the gameplan used against Holyfield a little to make absolutely sure of the win against Klitschko. No doubt that a 1992 Bowe starts as a favourite against the Wladimir of recent years, but there's nothing to suggest that it's a walk in the park for him and those acting as if Bowe is in a totally different league to Wladimir altogether seem to be oblivious to all of his fights outside Holyfield I.

At his best he's simply better that's all there is to it, people can try and elevate Wlads ability if they choose but it's not the reality of the situation. What actual advantages does Wlad have over at their respective bests?

Bowe has a better jab, more punch variety, a better chin, a better engine, a better work rate, a far better inside game and is of similar size.

The Terror of Tylorstown wrote:What actual advantages does Wlad have over at their respective bests?

He hits harder.

I'm not sure that's a decisive factor when Bowe has the better chin, he's more likely to get the knockout especially taking into account how Wlad fights against anyone who poses a risk.

Against his fellow big heavyweights like Lewis, Bowe, Liston and Holmes I don't think he matches up at all well, the smaller guys like Frazier, Dempsey and Marciano he could control behind his jab but the bigger guys.

Elevating Wlad's ability? If his abilities were elevated even half as much as Bowe's are on the basis of one, maybe two fights in a career of more than forty-odd he'd be doing alright!

Wladimir's the harder puncher for me, certainly has better ring intelligence than Bowe and, while Riddick's jab was better when he was on his game, it wasn't as consistent as Wladimir's has been since he's hit his peak.

Bowe should have been simply better than Tubbs and Golota, too, just as Wladimir should have been too good for Purity and Brewster. If it always worked out as simply as that then there'd be no need for boxing forums.

I'd pick Bowe to win, so that's not my gripe. My gripe is this idea that he's somehow in a different stratosphere to Wladimir and that his commonly listed strengths (such as engine, like you mention) are derived almost totally from the first Holyfield fight. He also gassed in the second half of Holyfield II, for instance, which is almost always airbrushed out. On the other hand, nobody is going to write off totally Wladimir's defeats, and nor should they.

Just think a bit of consistency is needed.

With a career best performance it shows that the ability to fight that well is possible, the Bowe who beat Holyfield steamrolls the fallible Wladimir.

Maybe he does steam roll him, not sure though how that is relevant to who ranks higher though. As I said previously in terms of skills Kirkland Laing is in a different stratosphere to Ricky Hatton. He also boasts arguably a better win than Hatton has on his ledger. However this does not mean he deserves to rank above him because he rarely displayed those talents or put them together into a meaningful run of form, as is the case with Bowe.

Have also asked this question before but if we are to rank fighters on natural ability, best win or the one occasion that actually managed to convert that potential into an actual performance in the ring should we make room in the top tens for Buster Douglas?

88Chris05 wrote:
I'd pick Bowe to win, so that's not my gripe. My gripe is this idea that he's somehow in a different stratosphere to Wladimir.

X 2.
I favour Bowe over Wlad in a head to head mainly because I see Bowe's excellent inside game roughing Wlad up. Wlad's inside game is non-existant on the other hand.
However, Wlad would still be the biggest challenge Bowe would have faced other than Holyfield (who stylistically is nothing like Wlad).
Therefore, I have an issue with the notion that seems to suggest that Bowe simply has to turn up to win.
Bowe will win if he brings his A-game, but anything less and he could very well end up flat on the canvas - and Bowe was hardly a model of consistency.

The Terror of Tylorstown wrote:At his best he's simply better that's all there is to it.

That's kind of the point here isn't it? I think most agree that Bowe does beat Wlad when at his best. But, in terms of consistency, Wlad has been the better performer over the top level end of his career. I just don't think the two better wins or the idea that Bowe would win the hypothetical head to head (which is hardly as cut and dried as you make out) is quite enough to supersede Wlad's huge period of HW dominance. Given Wlad's losses and his poor era of opposition, it is very close between them I think. But, I think too much hypothetical credit is being given to Bowe here. He had the greater potential but wasn't professional/smart/dedicated enough to become the champion that he could have been. Wlad has made better use of what he has, and gets his nose just in front for me.

The Terror of Tylorstown wrote:I'm not sure that's a decisive factor when Bowe has the better chin, he's more likely to get the knockout especially taking into account how Wlad fights against anyone who poses a risk.

Against his fellow big heavyweights like Lewis, Bowe, Liston and Holmes I don't think he matches up at all well, the smaller guys like Frazier, Dempsey and Marciano he could control behind his jab but the bigger guys.

Bowe's chin was ok but his defence was non existant, different getting hit by single shots from 205 pound Holyfield in the first fight to a 250 pound guy who has genuine power, is a true test of a chin. Bowe incidentally had a poor chin in the amateurs. He has the better chin and was more of a warrior but it was far from undentable.